Eye of the Tiger: The Tidjane Salaun Thread

[SWedd523]

it's been brought up a number a times his progression and improvement from the beginning of his season to the end

Does anybody have the splits or is willing to compile some to put that notion to the test?

[wilson115]

This is in French, but this guy tracked the performances of all French 2024 draft prospects month by month: https://dicodusport.fr/blog/tag/tidjane-salaun/

These sites also followed Tidjane and co. closely:

25 avril 2024

"He's progressed enormously in terms of toughness," Kim Tillie told us about him in early March. "He's strong now, whereas he was a shrimp at the first training session on August 5! He's put on 6 or 7 kilos of muscle since then: you can see it and feel it in his impacts. He has a lot of qualities that I like, especially his humility and work ethic. He comes for 1 or 2 hours before every training session to do individual work: dribbling, strength training, shooting, etc. Then he gives it his all at every training session. After that, he gives it his all during group sessions. That's why he has no limits. And what's more, he's a great guy!"

https://www.bebasket.fr/tidjane-salaun-draft

15/09/2023

A stone slipped in his shoe in 2020, during his time at the Insep. A miserable year, marred by a nasty case of pubalgia. But Cholet Basket gave him the chance to bounce back. In Les Mauges, he won two Trophées du Futur and the French Espoirs title last season. In two years at the Académie Gautier, his progress has been impressive. "Before, when he'd have a difficult first half, he'd find it hard to get his head back in the game and not be affected. At the Trophée du Futur, in the semi-final, he proved the opposite," says Régis Boissié, his Espoirs coach. "I've known boys with incredible jump like Yoan Makoundou. But never someone with such power."

https://www.ouest-france.fr/sport/basket/cholet/cholet-basket-quand-je-serai-pret-jirai-en-nba-tidjane-salauen-letoile-des-mauges-ac8569fa-5245-11ee-94bc-e523343662bc

Watch on YouTube

[lmcguir15]

it's been brought up a number a times his progression and improvement from the beginning of his season to the end

Does anybody have the splits or is willing to compile some to put that notion to the test?

I'll bite. Salaun averaged 9 ppg, 4 reb, 1 assist, 1.4 stocks on 37/33/77 splits in 33 games at 23 mpg. We'd all agree that the NBA is harder and he'll likely play less minutes in his rookie year.

If he matches his averages and improves on his percentages, I think that's a fine rookie year for a guy that half the board was melting down over. If anything, his progress in terms of numbers should be taken with a YoY outlook, but for me I think year 1 is the eye test.

Knowing where to be, physicality and staying out of foul trouble are probably realistic qualities we should see from beginning to end of the year. I'm taking a cautiously optimistic approach, so for me I think the offseason and the jump from year 1 to 2 is what I'm holding out for.

[SWedd523]

it's been brought up a number a times his progression and improvement from the beginning of his season to the end

Does anybody have the splits or is willing to compile some to put that notion to the test?

I'll bite. Salaun averaged 9 ppg, 4 reb, 1 assist, 1.4 stocks on 37/33/77 splits in 33 games at 23 mpg. We'd all agree that the NBA is harder and he'll likely play less minutes in his rookie year.

If he matches his averages and improves on his percentages, I think that's a fine rookie year for a guy that half the board was melting down over. If anything, his progress in terms of numbers should be taken with a YoY outlook, but for me I think year 1 is the eye test.

Knowing where to be, physicality and staying out of foul trouble are probably realistic qualities we should see from beginning to end of the year. I'm taking a cautiously optimistic approach, so for me I think the offseason and the jump from year 1 to 2 is what I'm holding out for.

My apologies but that's not what I was asking


I meant the year he just completed pre draft.

The claim is that he showed marked improved throughout the season, I'm just looking to see some splits to prove/disprove that notion.

[MPM]

it's been brought up a number a times his progression and improvement from the beginning of his season to the end

Does anybody have the splits or is willing to compile some to put that notion to the test?

I'll bite. Salaun averaged 9 ppg, 4 reb, 1 assist, 1.4 stocks on 37/33/77 splits in 33 games at 23 mpg. We'd all agree that the NBA is harder and he'll likely play less minutes in his rookie year.

If he matches his averages and improves on his percentages, I think that's a fine rookie year for a guy that half the board was melting down over. If anything, his progress in terms of numbers should be taken with a YoY outlook, but for me I think year 1 is the eye test.

Knowing where to be, physicality and staying out of foul trouble are probably realistic qualities we should see from beginning to end of the year. I'm taking a cautiously optimistic approach, so for me I think the offseason and the jump from year 1 to 2 is what I'm holding out for.

My apologies but that's not what I was asking


I meant the year he just completed pre draft.

The claim is that he showed marked improved throughout the season, I'm just looking to see some splits to prove/disprove that notion.

Points only and super rough - I didn't chart mins, etc. but for a very basic look at improvement:

First 17 games of regular season he averaged 6.8 points for Cholet.
Last 16 games he averaged 11.3 points per game.
In 3 playoff games he averaged 13.3 points per game.

[wilson115]

November: "6.6 points, 2.0 rebounds, 0.9 assists, 1.0 steals, 0.0 blocks on 43% shooting, 35% on three-pointers and 82% on free throws, in 17 minutes."

December: "14.8 points, 4.2 rebounds, 0.5 assists, 1.3 steals, 0.2 blocks at 60% shooting, 68% three-pointers and 74% free throws, in 25 minutes."

January: "10.1 points, 3.1 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 1.0 steals, 0.3 blocks on 44% shooting, 30% three-pointers and 88% free throws, in 23 minutes."

February: "11.0 points, 4.3 rebounds, 0.3 assists, 0.3 steals, 0.0 blocks on 43% shooting, 33% on three-pointers and 86% on free throws, in 27 minutes."

March: "9.2 points, 6.5 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 0.7 steals, 0.0 blocks on 33% shooting, 18% on three-pointers and 88% on free throws, in 30 minutes."

April: "11.8 points, 4.2 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 0.6 steals, 0.4 blocks at 39% shooting, 27% three-pointers and 94% free throws, in 30 minutes."

May: "10.8 points, 4.4 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 1.4 steals, 0.2 blocks at 45% shooting, 27% three-pointers and 20% free throws, in 25 minutes."

[MPM]

November: "6.6 points, 2.0 rebounds, 0.9 assists, 1.0 steals, 0.0 blocks on 43% shooting, 35% on three-pointers and 82% on free throws, in 17 minutes."

December: "14.8 points, 4.2 rebounds, 0.5 assists, 1.3 steals, 0.2 blocks at 60% shooting, 68% three-pointers and 74% free throws, in 25 minutes."

January: "10.1 points, 3.1 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 1.0 steals, 0.3 blocks on 44% shooting, 30% three-pointers and 88% free throws, in 23 minutes."

February: "11.0 points, 4.3 rebounds, 0.3 assists, 0.3 steals, 0.0 blocks on 43% shooting, 33% on three-pointers and 86% on free throws, in 27 minutes."

March: "9.2 points, 6.5 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 0.7 steals, 0.0 blocks on 33% shooting, 18% on three-pointers and 88% on free throws, in 30 minutes."

April: "11.8 points, 4.2 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 0.6 steals, 0.4 blocks at 39% shooting, 27% three-pointers and 94% free throws, in 30 minutes."

May: "10.8 points, 4.4 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 1.4 steals, 0.2 blocks at 45% shooting, 27% three-pointers and 20% free throws, in 25 minutes."

I also grabbed September and October stats which bring his early season totals down quite a bit: https://www.proballers.com/basketball/player/244780/tidjane-salaun/games

[GoBobs]

it's been brought up a number a times his progression and improvement from the beginning of his season to the end

Does anybody have the splits or is willing to compile some to put that notion to the test?

I'll bite. Salaun averaged 9 ppg, 4 reb, 1 assist, 1.4 stocks on 37/33/77 splits in 33 games at 23 mpg. We'd all agree that the NBA is harder and he'll likely play less minutes in his rookie year.

If he matches his averages and improves on his percentages, I think that's a fine rookie year for a guy that half the board was melting down over. If anything, his progress in terms of numbers should be taken with a YoY outlook, but for me I think year 1 is the eye test.

Knowing where to be, physicality and staying out of foul trouble are probably realistic qualities we should see from beginning to end of the year. I'm taking a cautiously optimistic approach, so for me I think the offseason and the jump from year 1 to 2 is what I'm holding out for.

My apologies but that's not what I was asking


I meant the year he just completed pre draft.

The claim is that he showed marked improved throughout the season, I'm just looking to see some splits to prove/disprove that notion.

The main problem is we are talking about a sample size of around 36 games for all of last year. Hard to draw any definative conclusions about such a small sample size.

Here are the game logs.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/tidjane-salaun-1/gamelog/2024/france-lnb-pro-a/

You can definatly see a trend where his scoring improves in the 2nd half of his season. Part of that is he was just so bad in the begining of the year. I mean his 2nd game he goes 2/9 followed by a 4/14 game followed by a 0/10 game.

If you look at games 15-30 he is having a lot less stinkers, and actually has some good games where he is 8/14, 8/13, 6/11.

It might be more accurate to say the first half of his season was poor because his first 5 games were just terrible.

Overall though his fg percentage of 37% is really, really low for a guy mixing in a bunch of dunks. This would be really low for a guard and usually a PF should be much higher. Part of that is he takes a lot of 3s, the other part is his 2pt shot percentage is 42% which means everything that isn't a dunk of kind of a prayer.

Watch on YouTube

[EmpireFalls]

November: "6.6 points, 2.0 rebounds, 0.9 assists, 1.0 steals, 0.0 blocks on 43% shooting, 35% on three-pointers and 82% on free throws, in 17 minutes."

December: "14.8 points, 4.2 rebounds, 0.5 assists, 1.3 steals, 0.2 blocks at 60% shooting, 68% three-pointers and 74% free throws, in 25 minutes."

January: "10.1 points, 3.1 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 1.0 steals, 0.3 blocks on 44% shooting, 30% three-pointers and 88% free throws, in 23 minutes."

February: "11.0 points, 4.3 rebounds, 0.3 assists, 0.3 steals, 0.0 blocks on 43% shooting, 33% on three-pointers and 86% on free throws, in 27 minutes."

March: "9.2 points, 6.5 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 0.7 steals, 0.0 blocks on 33% shooting, 18% on three-pointers and 88% on free throws, in 30 minutes."

April: "11.8 points, 4.2 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 0.6 steals, 0.4 blocks at 39% shooting, 27% three-pointers and 94% free throws, in 30 minutes."

May: "10.8 points, 4.4 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 1.4 steals, 0.2 blocks at 45% shooting, 27% three-pointers and 20% free throws, in 25 minutes."

So he broke 50% FG and 40% from 3 in one entire month out of 6?

And aside from the scorching hot December, he shot sub 35% in every other month from 3?

Is it me or are those statistics looking SUPER fraudulent in the light? WTF.

[wilson115]

November: "6.6 points, 2.0 rebounds, 0.9 assists, 1.0 steals, 0.0 blocks on 43% shooting, 35% on three-pointers and 82% on free throws, in 17 minutes."

December: "14.8 points, 4.2 rebounds, 0.5 assists, 1.3 steals, 0.2 blocks at 60% shooting, 68% three-pointers and 74% free throws, in 25 minutes."

January: "10.1 points, 3.1 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 1.0 steals, 0.3 blocks on 44% shooting, 30% three-pointers and 88% free throws, in 23 minutes."

February: "11.0 points, 4.3 rebounds, 0.3 assists, 0.3 steals, 0.0 blocks on 43% shooting, 33% on three-pointers and 86% on free throws, in 27 minutes."

March: "9.2 points, 6.5 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 0.7 steals, 0.0 blocks on 33% shooting, 18% on three-pointers and 88% on free throws, in 30 minutes."

April: "11.8 points, 4.2 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 0.6 steals, 0.4 blocks at 39% shooting, 27% three-pointers and 94% free throws, in 30 minutes."

May: "10.8 points, 4.4 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 1.4 steals, 0.2 blocks at 45% shooting, 27% three-pointers and 20% free throws, in 25 minutes."

So he broke 50% FG and 40% from 3 in one entire month out of 6?

And aside from the scorching hot December, he shot sub 35% in every other month from 3?

Is it me or are those statistics looking SUPER fraudulent in the light? WTF.

It's weird though, holding this up to MPM's and GoBob's tallies, the numbers don't track. Like this one says he shot 30% from three in January, but BBallreference says he shot 50% in his three games back then. No idea what's going on there.

[GoBobs]

November: "6.6 points, 2.0 rebounds, 0.9 assists, 1.0 steals, 0.0 blocks on 43% shooting, 35% on three-pointers and 82% on free throws, in 17 minutes."

December: "14.8 points, 4.2 rebounds, 0.5 assists, 1.3 steals, 0.2 blocks at 60% shooting, 68% three-pointers and 74% free throws, in 25 minutes."

January: "10.1 points, 3.1 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 1.0 steals, 0.3 blocks on 44% shooting, 30% three-pointers and 88% free throws, in 23 minutes."

February: "11.0 points, 4.3 rebounds, 0.3 assists, 0.3 steals, 0.0 blocks on 43% shooting, 33% on three-pointers and 86% on free throws, in 27 minutes."

March: "9.2 points, 6.5 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 0.7 steals, 0.0 blocks on 33% shooting, 18% on three-pointers and 88% on free throws, in 30 minutes."

April: "11.8 points, 4.2 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 0.6 steals, 0.4 blocks at 39% shooting, 27% three-pointers and 94% free throws, in 30 minutes."

May: "10.8 points, 4.4 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 1.4 steals, 0.2 blocks at 45% shooting, 27% three-pointers and 20% free throws, in 25 minutes."

So he broke 50% FG and 40% from 3 in one entire month out of 6?

And aside from the scorching hot December, he shot sub 35% in every other month from 3?

Is it me or are those statistics looking SUPER fraudulent in the light? WTF.

It's weird though, holding this up to MPM's and GoBob's tallies, the numbers don't track. Like this one says he shot 30% from three in January, but BBallreference says he shot 50% in his three games back then. No idea what's going on there.

hmmm.... this site seems to have an additional 18 games that were played over the same time frame last year.
https://basketball.eurobasket.com/player/Tidjane-Salaun/609368

doesn't really support the trend of starting off bad and getting better at a glance. Either way he is a project and we are just going to have to wait and see.

I just don't have faith in our ability to develop a project into a good player. I know we have a new coach, but he is going to be busy trying to win games because there are so many games. Our G league team has never been good, we have hardly won a summer league game in the last 3 years. It just seems like we don't spend what it takes to have a good player development system in place.

Then we pick maybe the most raw guy in the whole draft who has to learn so many different things to be at the level of a rotation player, on top of that he has to come to a new country, adjust to a new language, all at 18 years old. I can see some ways it might not work out.

[yosemiteben]

I just don't have faith in our ability to develop a project into a good player. I know we have a new coach, but he is going to be busy trying to win games because there are so many games. Our G league team has never been good, we have hardly won a summer league game in the last 3 years. It just seems like we don't spend what it takes to have a good player development system in place.

You're of course free to have this opinion, but it's not supported by anything in reality. We have a completely new FO and coaching staff. There's no data to support that this group can't develop players.

[GiggitySmalls]

I was massively against this pick. But I do like the fact that since the day after thr draft literally everyday there are pictures of him on the court. So fingers crossed and butt cheeks clenched.

Sent from my SM-F936U using RealGM mobile app

[bravor]

He played in a fiba european cup (and his stats were better than in the french league from what i recall) and in the french league, that's where the delta is from.

His stats in BCL (which is behind the Euroleague in terms of level but above other european cups and national leagues even spanish acb)

On this page you can check his stats per competition ('Europe' is the bcl stats, 'betclic elite' is french league, 'play offs' are betclic elite PO, you also have his stats at the euro U18 last summer).

Knowing he was a rotation early in the season but he became a key player during the season (because of his plays vs the other pro at his position, because of injuries as well).
As for his %, we are not talking about ncaa. BCL is filled with experienced pros, it's not a development league. His numbers there are legit

The main thing is his extreme ups and down i would say. The progression for me has more to do there. Less 'down' during the second part of the season.

But nobody said he's not a project. His offense needs quite a lot of work to become more versatile and efficient in the paint (better dribble & drive, some floater, using curls, ..) But he is already a threat on c&s (kicks out) and on pick n pop (he sets good picks to me knowing in the nba it's called on team/player's reputation, but that's another story). He has no back to the basket game to my knowledge (he might be working on it during training, no clue) and his passing is a bit poor for a player that will play pf for most of the time.
But it's the defense that will be the major eye test imo. This is where he has the most to prove imo, considering if the defense is there, his 3 point should be enough to be at least a good rotation in the league

[Trey24]

He played in a fiba european cup (and his stats were better than in the french league from what i recall) and in the french league, that's where the delta is from.

His stats in BCL (which is behind the Euroleague in terms of level but above other european cups and national leagues even spanish acb)

On this page you can check his stats per competition ('Europe' is the bcl stats, 'betclic elite' is french league, 'play offs' are betclic elite PO, you also have his stats at the euro U18 last summer).

Knowing he was a rotation early in the season but he became a key player during the season (because of his plays vs the other pro at his position, because of injuries as well).
As for his %, we are not talking about ncaa. BCL is filled with experienced pros, it's not a development league. His numbers there are legit

The main thing is his extreme ups and down i would say. The progression for me has more to do there. Less 'down' during the second part of the season.

But nobody said he's not a project. His offense needs quite a lot of work to become more versatile and efficient in the paint (better dribble & drive, some floater, using curls, ..) But he is already a threat on c&s (kicks out) and on pick n pop (he sets good picks to me knowing in the nba it's called on team/player's reputation, but that's another story). He has no back to the basket game to my knowledge (he might be working on it during training, no clue) and his passing is a bit poor for a player that will play pf for most of the time.
But it's the defense that will be the major eye test imo. This is where he has the most to prove imo, considering if the defense is there, his 3 point should be enough to be at least a good rotation in the league

Thanks for sharing this. His stats in BCL are actually pretty solid. That is really what I am excited about is that fact that while he is a major project he has proven he can produce at a pro level as raw as be is.

[LofJ]

The team just dropped this video, it's a must watch. Includes a lot of behind the scenes video of our secret workout with him, during/after the draft, etc.

https://youtu.be/isq8B4t2ZLE?si=zBtrJN3tPngnJ2Fp

I've never seen the team produce something like this. I am trying hard not to get too optimistic, but it's getting increasingly difficult.

[KembaWalker]

If the Spurs interest was real I’m surprised he even agreed to a workout with us

[wilson115]

"The Observer recently caught up with Salaün and Simpson on two separate occasions, checking in with the Hornets’ draft picks to gauge how things are going as they assimilate themselves into a new organization and environment."

Read more at: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/charlotte-hornets/article289887724.html#storylink=cpy

[EmpireFalls]

He better not suck man. Please

[fatlever]

I'm expecting a vonleh/kai/ajinca level summer league debut for him. summer league is a tough place for raw energy bigs that can't get their own shots. i fully expect him to be better than those guys, but we wont see it in vegas.