An early summer 2024 thread

Post #881 » by **og15** » Mon Jul 8, 2024 10:19 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:
og15 wrote:Golden State definitely wanted PG

If they really wanted him, they would have included Kuminga and not tried to dump every single one of their bad contracts on us. Their refusal to offer anything of worth in return for PG suggests that they didn't actually value him highly.

and so did Orlando.

Orlando threw money at KCP the minute free agency opened instead of waiting to see what PG did. I don't think they were ever seriously in the running. They were probably just used as leverage by PG's camp to make sure Morey gave him the max.

We don't have to want him back, but we don't have to make up reality either. It's not that serious, he didn't commit a crime lol

Looking at other teams' revealed preferences is not "making up reality." He has no trade value anymore. He makes too many demands and causes too much drama while consistently melting down in the playoffs, he's on the wrong side of 30 and injury-prone. As it turns out, other teams weren't as dumb as we were hoping they were. They all know he's more of a liability than an asset at this stage of his career and that they'd regret trading anything of value for him, so they didn't. The Sixers only paid him because they're desperate and because they could just sign him outright.

Every team tries to get the best deal possible. Remember how long it took the Clippers and Philly to make a deal? Was it because the Clippers "didn't really want Harden". Clippers didn't want to give up Mann who was over 25 and just a role player with no potential. Clippers likely were fighting about taking Tucker's contract, including Batum, etc, did that all mean they didn't want a guy they ended up trading for and now extending? There was limited time to negotiate and each team was trying to get the best deal possible. Draymond wouldn't have gone on a whole rant about the trade not happening if the Warriors didn't really want him.

PG's camp told Orlando that they were not taking a meeting with them, and they immediately pivoted. Most smart teams don't just focus on one option, they have other options waiting. The Clippers as soon as PG was not an option made other signings. You think they waited before PG's final decision to reach out to those agents and have the plans for the offers they would give? No way, they would have already been like, "hey, if this doesn't work out, we are interested, this is what we want to offer, etc (I know technically teams and players aren't supposed to be talking yet, but let's be real).

Lots of players who according to fans had no trade value were traded for solid return. We love to say it as fans, but teams situations change all around the league that it just doesn't tend to play out like we think.

KL2 · Post #882 » by **KL2** » Mon Jul 8, 2024 10:34 pm

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wco81 · Post #883 » by **wco81** » Mon Jul 8, 2024 11:55 pm

Zach Lowe again disputed that letting PG was about the second apron.

Also noted that most casual fans don't know about aprons so teams using that as an excuse may not fly.

He pointed out the case of Blake Griffin, was given some ceremony after he signed his extension, with talk of him being a Clipper for life, and 6 months later, he was in Detroit.

So PG wasn't inclined to trust the Clippers. Especially if it's true about the 2 years $60 million offer. That might have been telling him they didn't want him back that much.

MartinToVaught · Post #884 » by **MartinToVaught** » Tue Jul 9, 2024 12:58 am

wco81 wrote:Also noted that most casual fans don't know about aprons so teams using that as an excuse may not fly.

Those same casual fans would stop caring and buying tickets if their team went into the second apron just to please them and flushed the next 5+ years down the drain as a result.

Post #885 » by **og15** » Tue Jul 9, 2024 1:07 am

wco81 wrote:Zach Lowe again disputed that letting PG was about the second apron.

Also noted that most casual fans don't know about aprons so teams using that as an excuse may not fly.

He pointed out the case of Blake Griffin, was given some ceremony after he signed his extension, with talk of him being a Clipper for life, and 6 months later, he was in Detroit.

So PG wasn't inclined to trust the Clippers. Especially if it's true about the 2 years $60 million offer. That might have been telling him they didn't want him back that much.

It wasn't simply the second apron because the deal the Clippers offered would still have them in the second apron this season. It was the flexibility of being able to pivot if things didn't work out, so it was certainly future second apron, because if they failed again this coming season, they would not be running it back with a second apron team again and having all that lack of flexibility for no reason. They could even make the decision half way through the season if they look unimpressive at that point.

The team didn't want to be stuck in a bad situation, it's the flexibility Frank mentioned multiple times, but as a player you also understand that no promise in these situations is true unless it is in writing.

Both sides did what was in their interest as they are allowed to do. I think everyone is also content with it all, so it's all good, there's really nothing to have hard feelings about.

KL2 · Post #886 » by **KL2** » Tue Jul 9, 2024 1:44 am

Im not expecting a whopper but I would hope we’re not done???

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jengmann3 · Post #887 » by **jengmann3** » Tue Jul 9, 2024 2:41 am

Clipp312s wrote:I don't see how we get Brandon Ingram unless a third team is involved and willing to take our expiring contracts.

The Pelicans need a center badly unless they think Yves Missi is their Derek Lively Jr. Maybe a 3-way w/ the Bulls and Vuc? We prob have to give up Bones + Terance Mann though for Bulls to help us.

Just hoping we have one more splashy move like this remaining. Not looking forward to a slightly better than play-in tournament team as it stands.

I really like Ingram. He always kills the Clips. Another mid range killer next to kawhi. Honestly NoP really could use Norm, T Mann, even Zu who I know Clip fans would probably make off limits. But he had a bit of an off year
Also not sure what happened with team usa for him last summer. I know he's quiet and loves to hoop so sounds like a kawhi. He also has a bit of an injury history. I would get if ppl wouldn't like the combo out of fear the two are too similar. Also I agree that it would be nice to have a solid traditional 4.

Post #888 » by **og15** » Tue Jul 9, 2024 2:47 am

jengmann3 wrote:
Clipp312s wrote:I don't see how we get Brandon Ingram unless a third team is involved and willing to take our expiring contracts.

The Pelicans need a center badly unless they think Yves Missi is their Derek Lively Jr. Maybe a 3-way w/ the Bulls and Vuc? We prob have to give up Bones + Terance Mann though for Bulls to help us.

Just hoping we have one more splashy move like this remaining. Not looking forward to a slightly better than play-in tournament team as it stands.

I really like Ingram. He always kills the Clips. Another mid range killer next to kawhi. Honestly NoP really could use Norm, T Mann, even Zu who I know Clip fans would probably make off limits. But he had a bit of an off year
Also not sure what happened with team usa for him last summer. I know he's quiet and loves to hoop so sounds like a kawhi. He also has a bit of an injury history. I would get if ppl wouldn't like the combo out of fear the two are too similar. Also I agree that it would be nice to have a solid traditional 4.

Clippers need to stay away from injury prone guys just for a little bit.

Ingram has not played more than 64 since his rookie season and averages 57 games a year since year 2. He's worse than guys you might consider more injury prone.

KL2 · Post #889 » by **KL2** » Tue Jul 9, 2024 3:02 am

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KL2 · Post #890 » by **KL2** » Tue Jul 9, 2024 8:06 pm

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clipsfever · Post #891 » by **clipsfever** » Tue Jul 9, 2024 9:37 pm

Paul Reed claimed off waivers by the Pistons

KL2 · Post #892 » by **KL2** » Tue Jul 9, 2024 10:48 pm

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Ballings7 · Post #893 » by **Ballings7** » Tue Jul 9, 2024 11:15 pm

Paul Reed off to waste away in Detroit..

Trendon Watford stays with Brooklyn: https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/276621/Trendon-Watford-Signs-$27M-Qualifying-Offer-With-Nets

KL2 wrote:Im not expecting a whopper but I would hope we’re not done???

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I don't think they're done yet past the current agreements with named players.

Maybe big forward just gets resolved in pre-season, but, I don't think it'll be that resolved if its someone whose either been in the rotation already, or is expected to be.

DJJ as a undersized PF with of course Batum playing a bigger role situationally, would be the best bet, and in reality in the long-term, I just don't think that'll work out too well against the top 4-5 teams in a playoff series. Batum positionally on defense not a concern, but the rebounding is where its more of a concern.

PF may just have to be the team's main weak point again, in virtually all main categories -- bigger frontcourt player defense, rebounding; limited, spotty offensive output & ability, which is more expected. The former (defense and rebounding being more important as a strength in the least, with the offense being passable from the big forward (aka PF) position at least (which right now it is).

Jerami Grant is a guy who'd be very solid on both ends, and can play some wing as well.. think his salary is too big though.

Post #894 » by **og15** » Wed Jul 10, 2024 1:02 am

Ballings7 wrote:Paul Reed off to waste away in Detroit..

Trendon Watford stays with Brooklyn: https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/276621/Trendon-Watford-Signs-$27M-Qualifying-Offer-With-Nets

KL2 wrote:Im not expecting a whopper but I would hope we’re not done???

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

I don't think they're done yet past the current agreements with named players.

Maybe big forward just gets resolved in pre-season, but, I don't think it'll be that resolved if its someone whose either been in the rotation already, or is expected to be.

DJJ as a undersized PF with of course Batum playing a bigger role situationally, would be the best bet, and in reality in the long-term, I just don't think that'll work out too well against the top 4-5 teams in a playoff series. Batum positionally on defense not a concern, but the rebounding is where its more of a concern.

PF may just have to be the team's main weak point again, in virtually all main categories -- bigger frontcourt player defense, rebounding; limited, spotty offensive output & ability, which is more expected. The former (defense and rebounding being more important as a strength in the least, with the offense being passable from the big forward (aka PF) position at least (which right now it is).

Jerami Grant is a guy who'd be very solid on both ends, and can play some wing as well.. think his salary is too big though.

DJJ was also the SF for Dallas and guards more 1/2/3. PJ Washington was the one playing and guarding 4's, and Grant Williams before that.

At a skinny 6'5 DJJ is even a small SF, so yea, definitely still need a bigger forward on the team (Batum is there but he's older and can only play so many minutes). There should be opportunity to do something like move Mann for a player like that during the season for example.

Bey who TrueLAfan has mentioned is a good option a s a bigger guy, but he would be a signing for the future as he probably isn't playing much this season.

Clemenza · Post #895 » by **Clemenza** » Wed Jul 10, 2024 2:38 am

Another good breakdown from this Andy fella. In the end everybody is content and got what they wanted.

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KL2 · Post #896 » by **KL2** » Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:49 am

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TucsonClip · Post #897 » by **TucsonClip** » Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:46 am

Clemenza wrote:Another good breakdown from this Andy fella. In the end everybody is content and got what they wanted.

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I'm not saying he's wrong, but that's a freaking mile away from even being realistic. So many bridges to cross.

To me, it's obvious. We didn't want PG back unless he took a pay cut. I don't even know that I seriously believe we would have signed him to 3/$150.

Personally, it's been time to move on. We're not going to be better off next year, but I can't see any reason we just roll over and give PG 4 years for his production, his aloofness on the floor in big games, and his inability to stay healthy, similar to Kawhi.

Captain Ballmer · Post #898 » by **Captain Ballmer** » Wed Jul 10, 2024 7:04 am

og15 wrote:
Ballings7 wrote:Paul Reed off to waste away in Detroit..

Trendon Watford stays with Brooklyn: https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/276621/Trendon-Watford-Signs-$27M-Qualifying-Offer-With-Nets

KL2 wrote:Im not expecting a whopper but I would hope we’re not done???

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

I don't think they're done yet past the current agreements with named players.

Maybe big forward just gets resolved in pre-season, but, I don't think it'll be that resolved if its someone whose either been in the rotation already, or is expected to be.

DJJ as a undersized PF with of course Batum playing a bigger role situationally, would be the best bet, and in reality in the long-term, I just don't think that'll work out too well against the top 4-5 teams in a playoff series. Batum positionally on defense not a concern, but the rebounding is where its more of a concern.

PF may just have to be the team's main weak point again, in virtually all main categories -- bigger frontcourt player defense, rebounding; limited, spotty offensive output & ability, which is more expected. The former (defense and rebounding being more important as a strength in the least, with the offense being passable from the big forward (aka PF) position at least (which right now it is).

Jerami Grant is a guy who'd be very solid on both ends, and can play some wing as well.. think his salary is too big though.
DJJ was also the SF for Dallas and guards more 1/2/3. PJ Washington was the one playing and guarding 4's, and Grant Williams before that.

At a skinny 6'5 DJJ is even a small SF, so yea, definitely still need a bigger forward on the team (Batum is there but he's older and can only play so many minutes). There should be opportunity to do something like move Mann for a player like that during the season for example.

Bey who TrueLAfan has mentioned is a good option a s a bigger guy, but he would be a signing for the future as he probably isn't playing much this season.

At this point why rush PF situation? wait 2 weeks for the summer league. Check what Kobe Brown cooking. If he's overmatch and it's too easy you know he's ready for rotation. You roll with Batum/Kobe rotation to the season. If he's not takeover games, then you know Kobe is for to trade along with PJ+Russ. Might be another team willing to take Kobe for couple 2nd round picks which could helps you unload PJ.

esqtvd · Post #899 » by **esqtvd** » Wed Jul 10, 2024 9:27 am

KL2 wrote:

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LOL. Batum and Beard demanded [and got] a trade kicker. If you're going to Blake Griffin me, Steve, you gotta PAY. Especially Nico, poor SOB. Found out in the media he'd been kicked to Philly.

Not "Blake Griffined." BALLMERED.

he found out about until the next morning, when he woke up in order to take his kids to school and attend the Clippers' morning shootaround.

You have two kids in school, you've got a wife. You've got everything set up, and you don't really plan for it.

I never asked to leave. I was good where I was

Following the trade, Batum took several days away from the team, prompting retirement rumors. It was later revealed that his wife had been dealing with some health concerns that the Clippers were aware of and dealt him in the middle of.

had his family established

https://clutchpoints.com/clippers-news-nicolas-batum-breaks-silence-on-trade-to-sixers-i-envisioned-myself-retiring-here

Ballings7 · Post #900 » by **Ballings7** » Wed Jul 10, 2024 10:34 am

og15 wrote:
Ballings7 wrote:Paul Reed off to waste away in Detroit..

Trendon Watford stays with Brooklyn: https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/276621/Trendon-Watford-Signs-$27M-Qualifying-Offer-With-Nets

KL2 wrote:Im not expecting a whopper but I would hope we’re not done???

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

I don't think they're done yet past the current agreements with named players.

Maybe big forward just gets resolved in pre-season, but, I don't think it'll be that resolved if its someone whose either been in the rotation already, or is expected to be.

DJJ as a undersized PF with of course Batum playing a bigger role situationally, would be the best bet, and in reality in the long-term, I just don't think that'll work out too well against the top 4-5 teams in a playoff series. Batum positionally on defense not a concern, but the rebounding is where its more of a concern.

PF may just have to be the team's main weak point again, in virtually all main categories -- bigger frontcourt player defense, rebounding; limited, spotty offensive output & ability, which is more expected. The former (defense and rebounding being more important as a strength in the least, with the offense being passable from the big forward (aka PF) position at least (which right now it is).

Jerami Grant is a guy who'd be very solid on both ends, and can play some wing as well.. think his salary is too big though.
DJJ was also the SF for Dallas and guards more 1/2/3. PJ Washington was the one playing and guarding 4's, and Grant Williams before that.

At a skinny 6'5 DJJ is even a small SF, so yea, definitely still need a bigger forward on the team (Batum is there but he's older and can only play so many minutes). There should be opportunity to do something like move Mann for a player like that during the season for example.

Bey who TrueLAfan has mentioned is a good option a s a bigger guy, but he would be a signing for the future as he probably isn't playing much this season.

Always thought DJJ was taller.. still a good option on the wing at least. Agreed on Bey - I like his game, may be a good long-term investment for 2nd half of next season.

Clemenza wrote:Another good breakdown from this Andy fella. In the end everybody is content and got what they wanted.

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Yep. Good breakdown.. this is why it was always likely to me someone had to go from the big three, and to choose one it was probably gonna be George.

Be interesting to see what teams like OKC and Minnesota do in 2-3 years.