Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - PatBev: AJJ has "bright future"

[ReasonablySober]

Yeah this fallacy that you can have too many scorers in the playoffs is actually crazy. The cool part about Khris is he is a 3rd option but can completely takeover a playoff game when Dame/Giannis don't have it. Winning basketball games isn't as simple as slotting in amazing scorers to score only 14-15 a night, we constantly see him getting hot and scoring near 30 in the playoffs while distrubuting better than anyone of the team. It's beyond valuable.

Stop trying to pigeonhole Khris into only scoring 14 a game in the playoffs like he isn't an absolute leader on the team and isn't capable of carrying playoff games. WE KNOW HE IS. To build a team you have to know what you have

Yes. They have two of the greatest scorers in NBA history. What they don't have is a bunch of defense and athleticism. Khris is expendable.

[MiltownMadness]

I wouldn't make that trade either, but I hugely disagree with the bolded. Brook's a legit unicorn, even at age 36. He's still a guy you can build a defense around in the paint, and he stretches the floor. It's why I struggle to come up with any Lopez deals that don't cripple the team this season. I'd love to move a 36 year old who might up and retire next summer so he can spend more time at Disneyland with his brother. But no one's come up with a deal that fills the void he creates when he's moved.

Middleton on the other hand, as great as he is, is going to be wasted in Milwaukee next year. He's a borderline 1st option scorer, and an elite second scorer. On the Bucks he'll be the third, and he'll average 14-15 a night. That's way more replaceable than Brook.

You can't build a playoff defense around Brook. He get gameplanned off the floor in a 7 game series. He gets us blasted from 3 on a yearly basis. We need to stop building for the regular season and start building for the playoffs.

In the playoffs you need multiple scorers. That's when we need Khris Middleton. I've yet to see a playoff series where the Bucks had enough scorers.

Yea, disagree with every word here.

A year ago the Bucks most used playoff lineup had Brook and was +12.7. Second most was +3.7 with Brook and didn't have Giannis in it.

Year before that three of the top four playoff lineups included Brook and all were at least +7.

Year before that they won a ring.

I love Brook but if you put a rim protector next to Giannis they will always be +10 around . I don't want to trade Brook unless it's a good deal but he is super expendable at his age. Also you said you disagreed with every word but only replied to 50% of the post

[MiltownMadness]

Yeah this fallacy that you can have too many scorers in the playoffs is actually crazy. The cool part about Khris is he is a 3rd option but can completely takeover a playoff game when Dame/Giannis don't have it. Winning basketball games isn't as simple as slotting in amazing scorers to score only 14-15 a night, we constantly see him getting hot and scoring near 30 in the playoffs while distrubuting better than anyone of the team. It's beyond valuable.

Stop trying to pigeonhole Khris into only scoring 14 a game in the playoffs like he isn't an absolute leader on the team and isn't capable of carrying playoff games. WE KNOW HE IS. To build a team you have to know what you have

Yes. They have two of the greatest scorers in NBA history. What they don't have is a bunch of defense and athleticism. Khris is expendable.

You keep repeating this but it's more of an idea than reality, more options open things up for your superstars. Not to be mean but it's kind of a flawed understanding of playoff basketball. Also you never have addressed the KM/GA chemistry which guarantees you great offensive possessions, yes it matters greatly in trade talks. If you trade Khris you lose that for nothing because the other franchise will never consider that

[ReasonablySober]

Yeah this fallacy that you can have too many scorers in the playoffs is actually crazy. The cool part about Khris is he is a 3rd option but can completely takeover a playoff game when Dame/Giannis don't have it. Winning basketball games isn't as simple as slotting in amazing scorers to score only 14-15 a night, we constantly see him getting hot and scoring near 30 in the playoffs while distrubuting better than anyone of the team. It's beyond valuable.

Stop trying to pigeonhole Khris into only scoring 14 a game in the playoffs like he isn't an absolute leader on the team and isn't capable of carrying playoff games. WE KNOW HE IS. To build a team you have to know what you have

Yes. They have two of the greatest scorers in NBA history. What they don't have is a bunch of defense and athleticism. Khris is expendable.

You keep repeating this but it's more of an idea than reality. More options open things up for your superstars. Not to be mean but it's kind of a flawed understanding of playoff basketball

I have the entire history of playoff basketball on my side. FFS go look at the Bucks title. Holiday was the 3rd option and he shot 40%/30% for the playoffs.

All you need are a couple great options and a strong defense. The Bucks have two of the very best scorers ever.

[MiltownMadness]

[/b]
Yes. They have two of the greatest scorers in NBA history. What they don't have is a bunch of defense and athleticism. Khris is expendable.

You keep repeating this but it's more of an idea than reality. More options open things up for your superstars. Not to be mean but it's kind of a flawed understanding of playoff basketball

I have the entire history of playoff basketball on my side. FFS go look at the Bucks title. Holiday was the 3rd option and he shot 40%/30% for the playoffs.

All you need are a couple great options and a strong defense. The Bucks have two of the very best scorers ever.

That's delusional as hell to say the entire history of basketball is on your side, Celtics just had 4-5 great scorers in their starting lineup.

Bucks won because Giannis/KM 2 man game, so why trade Mids? It's a disgusting weapon that you refuse to acknowledge

[ReasonablySober]

Bucks won because Giannis/KM 2 man game

What the **** do you think Dame and Giannis are going to run?

It's a disgusting weapon that you refuse to acknowledge

I've said Middleton is great! I literally just said he's a borderline 1st option and an elite second option. I'm not hating on Middleton. I'm being realistic about where the Bucks' strengths are and where they're weak. There's no reason to keep Middleton around if he can help you acquire pieces that fit better around Dame and Giannis.

[MiltownMadness]

There is no diminishing returns with having 3 options in the playoffs, realize that and it will make it a lot easier. Placing the burden on Dame/Giannis to create all of our offense would be the death of us in the playoffs (also don't know what about last season tells you that those 2 guys have great chemistry). Playoffs is slower but it's about getting tough buckets/creating offense which KM excels at. Yes KM is great, so don't trade him when he has crazy chemistry with maybe the best basketball player in the world.

I mean it's simple. Dame is the 3 point guy, KM is the midrange guy, and GA is the close range guy. Bucks win. They fit amazing together, not okay, not good...great. Khris was a good defender last year by the way as well so I'm lost at this point.

[El Pooch Grande]

Read on Twitter

EDIT: Sorry didn’t see a similar tweet already posted…still, this would certainly be an interesting move.

[blazza18]

Giannis simply isn't good enough in the half court in the playoffs. We need to make his job easier as he gets older.

[-Jragon-]

Yeah this fallacy that you can have too many scorers in the playoffs is actually crazy. The cool part about Khris is he is a 3rd option but can completely takeover a playoff game when Dame/Giannis don't have it. Winning basketball games isn't as simple as slotting in amazing scorers to score only 14-15 a night, we constantly see him getting hot and scoring near 30 in the playoffs while distrubuting better than anyone of the team. It's beyond valuable.

Stop trying to pigeonhole Khris into only scoring 14 a game in the playoffs like he isn't an absolute leader on the team and isn't capable of carrying playoff games. WE KNOW HE IS. To build a team you have to know what you have

Yes. They have two of the greatest scorers in NBA history. What they don't have is a bunch of defense and athleticism. Khris is expendable.

100%

[-Jragon-]

I mean it's simple. Dame is the 3 point guy, KM is the midrange guy, and GA is the close range guy. Bucks win. They fit amazing together, not okay, not good...great. Khris was a good defender last year by the way as well so I'm lost at this point.

This is a narrative we're being fed and it's wrong. Dame and Giannis have additional dimensions that make them more efficient players. Dame scores EVERYWHERE on the court and when he's inside he's a threat to score ridiculous layups, amazing passes and feast from the foul line. Giannis is an inside player but also has the dimension of making ridiculous passes to anyone standing open and also gets one of the highest volumes of freethrows. Also Dame and Giannis are still fast. KM is slow and mostly 1 dimensional (long 2s) the dumbest, least efficient shot in basketball history. While it's fun watching KM try to get cooking in a playoff series, he needs the ball constantly to get it going and it's not even plays, just hongo ball. Nowhere near guys on defense either. He's expendable.. the 3 is a GREAT place to get more athletic.

[htr]

I kinda think Doc wants Giannis at center and
wants Ingram to lessen the scoring load.

[MiltownMadness]

I mean it's simple. Dame is the 3 point guy, KM is the midrange guy, and GA is the close range guy. Bucks win. They fit amazing together, not okay, not good...great. Khris was a good defender last year by the way as well so I'm lost at this point.

This is a narrative we're being fed and it's wrong. Dame and Giannis have additional dimensions that make them more efficient players. Dame scores EVERYWHERE on the court and when he's inside he's a threat to score ridiculous layups, amazing passes and feast from the foul line. Giannis is an inside player but also has the dimension of making ridiculous passes to anyone standing open and also gets one of the highest volumes of freethrows. Also Dame and Giannis are still fast. KM is slow and mostly 1 dimensional (long 2s) the dumbest, least efficient shot in basketball history. While it's fun watching KM try to get cooking in a playoff series, he needs the ball constantly to get it going and it's not even plays, just hongo ball. Nowhere near guys on defense either. He's expendable.. the 3 is a GREAT place to get more athletic.

wtf is hongo ball

[RiotPunch]

Bucks won because Giannis/KM 2 man game

What the **** do you think Dame and Giannis are going to run?

It's a disgusting weapon that you refuse to acknowledge

I've said Middleton is great! I literally just said he's a borderline 1st option and an elite second option. I'm not hating on Middleton. I'm being realistic about where the Bucks' strengths are and where they're weak. There's no reason to keep Middleton around if he can help you acquire pieces that fit better around Dame and Giannis.

You can't just spam Dame/Giannis actions, as nice and effective as it sounds. Khris is a proven self-creator and closer, which holds immense value in a playoff setting. As good as Giannis is, and he is a closer in a different way, having two other lethal clutch shot makers is what makes this thing go the distance. This is coming from a longtime Khritic.

[drdrG]

I can't imagine Ingram would be thrilled with his future role as off-ball third fiddle behind Giannis and Dame considering how poorly it has gone playing next to Zion the last few years.

[slos]

Some thoughts about an Ingram trade..

- I’m not using Midds under any circumstances since it would be a downgrade for the next season and our window is now.

- Pels seemed to like the idea splitting Ingram into Capela and Okongwu. I have Brook and Bobby an even better package.

- Pat needs to be included to avoid the 2nd tax apron.

- A backup C needs to come our way since you can’t play Giannis full time C.

So….

Bucks in Ingram, Kessler
Bucks out Pat, Bobby, Brook, 2031 FRP

Pels in Bobby, Brook
Pels out Ingram

Utah in Pat, MIL 2031 FRP
Utah out Kessler

Dame/Wright/Johnson
Green/AJJ
Midds/MarJon
Ingram/Prince/Livingston
Giannis/Kessler/Smith

In terms of money that leaves 3,943 mil under the 2nd apron to fill the final spots.

[bdpecore]

I think Ingram is getting a bit underrated but he's about the exact opposite thing we need right now. It would be like our version of the Phoenix Bradley Beal trade.

Maybe, but I can't remember a playoff series where we had enough offense, or enough forwards. Whenever we try to play Giannis at center in the playoffs, it's always him and a bunch of 6'4" dudes.

In most offers we'd make for Ingram, we'd clear enough money that we could offer Paul Reed some of the tMLE.

We obviously had enough in 2021 when our rotation was Giannis. Khris, Jrue, Brook, PJ, Bobby, Pat, Bryn Forbes and the corpse of Jeff Teague spelling Jrue for 6-8mpg.

[bdpecore]

All of my Ingram interest would be about flipping him for a couple of good players.

Ingram would keep us in the 2nd apron, so we couldn't do this unless the number of players swapped matches, and I'm not sure what we'd even have left to send out with Ingram to get a couple of good players back.

Ingram is $36 million, Brook, Bobby, and Pat is $44.9 million. We'd be comfortably under the 2nd apron.

Not if they are planning to use the TPMLE to sign another player. This will put them right back up against the 2nd apron.

[ShootingtheJ]

I wouldn't make that trade either, but I hugely disagree with the bolded. Brook's a legit unicorn, even at age 36. He's still a guy you can build a defense around in the paint, and he stretches the floor. It's why I struggle to come up with any Lopez deals that don't cripple the team this season. I'd love to move a 36 year old who might up and retire next summer so he can spend more time at Disneyland with his brother. But no one's come up with a deal that fills the void he creates when he's moved.

Middleton on the other hand, as great as he is, is going to be wasted in Milwaukee next year. He's a borderline 1st option scorer, and an elite second scorer. On the Bucks he'll be the third, and he'll average 14-15 a night. That's way more replaceable than Brook.

You can't build a playoff defense around Brook. He get gameplanned off the floor in a 7 game series. He gets us blasted from 3 on a yearly basis. We need to stop building for the regular season and start building for the playoffs.

In the playoffs you need multiple scorers. That's when we need Khris Middleton. I've yet to see a playoff series where the Bucks had enough scorers.

Yea, disagree with every word here.

A year ago the Bucks most used playoff lineup had Brook and was +12.7. Second most was +3.7 with Brook and didn't have Giannis in it.

Year before that three of the top four playoff lineups included Brook and all were at least +7.

Year before that they won a ring.

Against the Pacers the Bucks defense was -20/100 worse with Brook on the floor, and Brook finished the series -35.

The year before, the Bucks defense was -7.9/100 worse with Brook on the floor.

The Bucks get absolutely blasted from 3 with Brook on the floor.

I think your reading the numbers wrong.

[JayMKE]

I like Ingram’s game a lot but I’m not sure how much I buy his fit with Giannis/Dame/Khris and I’m sure he’ll want a huge new contract. Depends what is given up, would he be replacing Khris or would it be Brook + Bobby? Can’t leave the team with no bigs, would the team still be 2nd apron & who else could they bring in/trade for to plug holes? IMO Khris & Ingram are pretty similar level players.