Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4

[HotelVitale]

If signing KJ to a ballon contract in January is such a great idea, why wouldn't another team do the same thing since he's an FA?

I don't think you're understanding this situation/strategy correctly.

Signing KJ for more than a minimum is not a good idea for basketball reasons, so no other team is going to do that. And signing KJ for more than a minimum is also not a very good idea for basketball reasons for us (though he's fine as a 13/14th man). It's only good because he's literally the only person we can give more than a minimum to for cap reasons. Signing him for like $10m and having him be our 13th man for a few months until he's fully tradeable (and we can figure out our trade targets) gives us a contract to attach to picks to ship out for an upgrade. We have no other way to get that contract now, can't spend any more $ in FA and can't bring back one of our own better guys (like e.g. Melton) because they all have/had bigger capholds than KJ.

[jstross]

My point I guess is how does KJ start the season without a contract? Does he stay off the roster until january? It doesn't make sense to me. Surely he must be signed before the season starts, right? Can the Sixers then give him a new contract in January?

If signing KJ to a ballon contract in January is such a great idea, why wouldn't another team do the same thing since he's an FA?

I don't think you're understanding this situation/strategy correctly.

Signing KJ for more than a minimum is not a good idea for basketball reasons, so no other team is going to do that. And signing KJ for more than a minimum is also not a very good idea for basketball reasons for us (though he's fine as a 13/14th man). It's only good because he's literally the only person we can give more than a minimum to for cap reasons. Signing him for like $10m and having him be our 13th man for a few months until he's fully tradeable (and we can figure out our trade targets) gives us a contract to attach to picks to ship out for an upgrade. We have no other way to get that contract now, can't spend any more $ in FA and can't bring back one of our own better guys (like e.g. Melton) because they all have/had bigger capholds than KJ.

[Black Mage]

My point I guess is how does KJ start the season without a contract? Does he stay off the roster until january? It doesn't make sense to me. Surely he must be signed before the season starts, right? Can the Sixers then give him a new contract in January?

If signing KJ to a ballon contract in January is such a great idea, why wouldn't another team do the same thing since he's an FA?

I don't think you're understanding this situation/strategy correctly.

Signing KJ for more than a minimum is not a good idea for basketball reasons, so no other team is going to do that. And signing KJ for more than a minimum is also not a very good idea for basketball reasons for us (though he's fine as a 13/14th man). It's only good because he's literally the only person we can give more than a minimum to for cap reasons. Signing him for like $10m and having him be our 13th man for a few months until he's fully tradeable (and we can figure out our trade targets) gives us a contract to attach to picks to ship out for an upgrade. We have no other way to get that contract now, can't spend any more $ in FA and can't bring back one of our own better guys (like e.g. Melton) because they all have/had bigger capholds than KJ.

The Sixers will sign him before camp. They can't keep him in limbo until January.

January is when the contract KJ signs in the off season can be traded by the Sixers without incurring the hardcap.

[jstross]

Thanks, So do they sign him to the balloon contract before camp?

My point I guess is how does KJ start the season without a contract? Does he stay off the roster until january? It doesn't make sense to me. Surely he must be signed before the season starts, right? Can the Sixers then give him a new contract in January?

I don't think you're understanding this situation/strategy correctly.

Signing KJ for more than a minimum is not a good idea for basketball reasons, so no other team is going to do that. And signing KJ for more than a minimum is also not a very good idea for basketball reasons for us (though he's fine as a 13/14th man). It's only good because he's literally the only person we can give more than a minimum to for cap reasons. Signing him for like $10m and having him be our 13th man for a few months until he's fully tradeable (and we can figure out our trade targets) gives us a contract to attach to picks to ship out for an upgrade. We have no other way to get that contract now, can't spend any more $ in FA and can't bring back one of our own better guys (like e.g. Melton) because they all have/had bigger capholds than KJ.

The Sixers will sign him before camp. They can't keep him in limbo until January.

January is when the contract KJ signs in the off season can be traded by the Sixers without incurring the hardcap.

[sixers hoops]

Thanks, So do they sign him to the balloon contract before camp?

My point I guess is how does KJ start the season without a contract? Does he stay off the roster until january? It doesn't make sense to me. Surely he must be signed before the season starts, right? Can the Sixers then give him a new contract in January?

The Sixers will sign him before camp. They can't keep him in limbo until January.

January is when the contract KJ signs in the off season can be traded by the Sixers without incurring the hardcap.

The Sixers, if they go this direction, can sign him to a large contract very soon. He will be on our roster, but the Sixers prob have a lot more interest in him for salary matching purposes than as an actual player. To prevent teams from signing a player just to have someone to trade, they have rules that make it hard to trade the player for a few months. That it why the Sixers likely wouldn’t trade him until those restrictions expire closer to the trade deadline.

If the Sixers want to trade for a player making $12-$15 million, they would have to consider trading players like Drummond, Caleb Martin, Mcain, and Oubre, since their roster is primarily made up of
three max contracts and a bunch of minimum contracts.

Right now, KJ Martin counts against their cap as a $2 million or so cap hold as a placeholder. Since they still have his rights, they can exceed the cap and sign him to a large contract. Since he is the only person they can still exceed the cap to sign, the option is there to sign him to a contract in the $10-$15 million range. It benefits him because that’s way more than market value. Sixers ownership may not want to pay the luxury tax penalties for signing a fringe guy to a way over market value contract, but that option is there if they want to have a player in that salary range to trade in January or February.

Ultimately, this isn’t a special contract. They would sign him like any other player to be on our team, but to an overvalued contract so they can eventually use it in a trade. Nevertheless, it is a contract that they can offer at any point and KJ would be on our roster just like everybody else.

[76thBearCub]

Thanks, So do they sign him to the balloon contract before camp?

My point I guess is how does KJ start the season without a contract? Does he stay off the roster until january? It doesn't make sense to me. Surely he must be signed before the season starts, right? Can the Sixers then give him a new contract in January?

The Sixers will sign him before camp. They can't keep him in limbo until January.

January is when the contract KJ signs in the off season can be traded by the Sixers without incurring the hardcap.

Yes, but it's not about KJ at all. His contract is a place holder. This new cba is wild.

[the_process]

Thanks, So do they sign him to the balloon contract before camp?

The Sixers will sign him before camp. They can't keep him in limbo until January.

January is when the contract KJ signs in the off season can be traded by the Sixers without incurring the hardcap.

Yes, but it's not about KJ at all. His contract is a place holder. This new cba is wild.

Tradable contracts are important. Creating one essentially out of thin air is pretty sweet. Going forward, Oubre and Caleb slot in to be those type of contracts as well.

Agreed this CBA is turning everyone into lawyers. It's ridiculous, but the reason behind it is not: the league wants to institute a hard cap, but the PA would never agree to that outright right now. So instead they created an arcane and convoluted system that enforces a hard cap on almost any transaction possible, but where the players get 51% of the revenue, teams still with the ability to exceed the cap, a brand new massive TV deal and expansion looming. So the PA decided to let the details slide because the stars who run it like those checks to keep coming in and keep going up. I suspect the league will continue gradually pushing to a hard cap until they get there over the next few CBAs.

[M2J]

Thanks, So do they sign him to the balloon contract before camp?

Yes, but it's not about KJ at all. His contract is a place holder. This new cba is wild.

Tradable contracts are important. Creating one essentially out of thin air is pretty sweet. Going forward, Oubre and Caleb slot in to be those type of contracts as well.

Agreed this CBA is turning everyone into lawyers. It's ridiculous, but the reason behind it is not: the league wants to institute a hard cap, but the PA would never agree to that outright right now. So instead they created an arcane and convoluted system that enforces a hard cap on almost any transaction possible, but where the players get 51% of the revenue, teams still with the ability to exceed the cap, a brand new massive TV deal and expansion looming. So the PA decided to let the details slide because the stars who run it like those checks to keep coming in and keep going up. I suspect the league will continue gradually pushing to a hard cap until they get there over the next few CBAs.

I have a feeling some adjustments will be made in the CBA before too long. So many ways to improve it. For teams like Boston where their stars are organically drafted, I believe those 2 contracts should somehow count less towards these aprons and/or certain penalties shouldn't be implemented like the draft pick one or financial penalties to the organization. Boston or Spurs for instance with all of their achievements aren't free agent destinations and if they draft well, shouldn't be punished as harshly. Even for instances where that's not the case... Players aren't going to enjoy having to move as much to get paid and organizations are not going to love seeing their masterpieces broken up so easily.... Something will change, even though, im sure the league office loves it

[76ciology]

[x]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=bJcUtOCSwzTqqyZgysWpbQ[/x]

Just found out highsmith re-signed with the Heat for 2 years 11M

[76thBearCub]

Thanks, So do they sign him to the balloon contract before camp?

Yes, but it's not about KJ at all. His contract is a place holder. This new cba is wild.

Tradable contracts are important. Creating one essentially out of thin air is pretty sweet. Going forward, Oubre and Caleb slot in to be those type of contracts as well.

Agreed this CBA is turning everyone into lawyers. It's ridiculous, but the reason behind it is not: the league wants to institute a hard cap, but the PA would never agree to that outright right now. So instead they created an arcane and convoluted system that enforces a hard cap on almost any transaction possible, but where the players get 51% of the revenue, teams still with the ability to exceed the cap, a brand new massive TV deal and expansion looming. So the PA decided to let the details slide because the stars who run it like those checks to keep coming in and keep going up. I suspect the league will continue gradually pushing to a hard cap until they get there over the next few CBAs.

Hadn't put all that together, but that makes sense. It might as well be a hard cap as long as you don't have somebody like Balmer with LAC just blow the whole thing up.

[M2J]

So Joel says he's okay with games of 10pts and allowing others to carry the offense.... With a top level backup center, anybody think he can actually hold himself back during the season this year? Not lead in usage and shoot for post season awards. I would love to see him just one season during his prime truly aim for the playoffs and take care of himself. That's not to say he hasn't made it to the playoffs healthy before, but still... Maybe when he gets there not take stupid ass risks

[M2J]

[x]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=bJcUtOCSwzTqqyZgysWpbQ[/x]

Just found out highsmith re-signed with the Heat for 2 years 11M

Just go get a guy like Dennis Smith Jr along with Kyle and Morris and they'll be fine until they use the kjm balloon.

[76ciology]

Listening to PG’s latest podcast, it seems he felt disrespected when the Clippers initially offered him two years for $60M. This made him question if they truly valued him, despite their claims of wanting him to retire as a Clipper. When they eventually offered him the same contract as Kawhi, he responded by asking for a "no trade clause" to prove their commitment. The refusal to include this clause was the deal breaker, revealing the Clippers' true intentions in his eyes.

“Thats really how you felt? Lets see whats out there”

[Arsenal]

So Joel says he's okay with games of 10pts and allowing others to carry the offense.... With a top level backup center, anybody think he can actually hold himself back during the season this year? Not lead in usage and shoot for post season awards. I would love to see him just one season during his prime truly aim for the playoffs and take care of himself. That's not to say he hasn't made it to the playoffs healthy before, but still... Maybe when he gets there not take stupid ass risks

I don't believe he'll take a step back within games he plays in. Therefore we need to load manage him by sitting him out of a lot of games like B2B's.

[Arsenal]

I wonder what Larry Nance Jr. has left. He was a throw-in to ATL in the Murray trade and has an $11m expiring.

How does he compare to Dorian Finney-Smith? Could he be the PF we need?

I assume the cost will be cheap if ATL is out of the playoff hunt at the deadline.

[Sixerscan]

Thanks, So do they sign him to the balloon contract before camp?

The Sixers will sign him before camp. They can't keep him in limbo until January.

January is when the contract KJ signs in the off season can be traded by the Sixers without incurring the hardcap.

Yes, but it's not about KJ at all. His contract is a place holder. This new cba is wild.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's anything really new about what they're potentially doing with KJ?

He has a very small cap hold because he was on a minimum contract, they have full bird rights on him because he's been signed for 3+ years, so he counts for a small number against the cap and they can go over the cap to sign him.

All of that stuff has been around for decades at this point. It's basically the same thing they did with Maxey or Tobias or Iguodala only it's with an intent to use his salary to match salary coming in in a trade.

I remember people saying they should have done something similar with TJ 5 years ago.

The only part that's new is more secondary stuff such as the salary will have to be higher than the money coming in in a trade or you're hard capped at the first apron.

The CBA is complicated but it's also been complicated for a few long time. Heck this website became famous because 20+ years ago it had the first well-known trade machine that let you figure out how to match salaries.

[spikeslovechild]

I am not expecting it but am wonder what Gary Trent Jr will get at this point. Guys like Lowry and Hayward are probably purely vet min.

But there are enough interesting players left that the market is going to make someone like Trent Jr or Kennard or T Jones accept a small contract.

[Ben]

I wonder what Larry Nance Jr. has left. He was a throw-in to ATL in the Murray trade and has an $11m expiring.

How does he compare to Dorian Finney-Smith? Could he be the PF we need?

I assume the cost will be cheap if ATL is out of the playoff hunt at the deadline.

I think that for the past couple of years Nance has been playing almost exclusively as a rather small center. Maybe that's because New Orleans has Trey Murphy III and Zion playing PF most of the time (and even Ingram), or because they didn't have much backup for Valancianus at center, rather than b/c Nance isn't quick enough anymore to guard opposing 4s. I dunno. For the Sixers, it'd be all about whether Nance can still guard the 4.

Side note: I don't know what the Pelicans are doing. Take the center position: JV, Nance, and Zeller all gone (not that Zeller was much of a loss), just signed the undersized Daniel Theis for a year and they drafted Yves Missi. Why would you go and trade for Dejounte Murray, which implies that you're gonna try to compete, if you let one of the five positions be woefully understaffed?
Maybe they figure they'll get back a center if they finally trade Brandon Ingram.

[ckchen]

Thanks, So do they sign him to the balloon contract before camp?

Yes, but it's not about KJ at all. His contract is a place holder. This new cba is wild.

Tradable contracts are important. Creating one essentially out of thin air is pretty sweet. Going forward, Oubre and Caleb slot in to be those type of contracts as well.

Agreed this CBA is turning everyone into lawyers. It's ridiculous, but the reason behind it is not: the league wants to institute a hard cap, but the PA would never agree to that outright right now. So instead they created an arcane and convoluted system that enforces a hard cap on almost any transaction possible, but where the players get 51% of the revenue, teams still with the ability to exceed the cap, a brand new massive TV deal and expansion looming. So the PA decided to let the details slide because the stars who run it like those checks to keep coming in and keep going up. I suspect the league will continue gradually pushing to a hard cap until they get there over the next few CBAs.

If Oubre and Martin are "those type of contracts" going forward we're in serious trouble. The whole point of even considering that balloon payment to KJ is to supplement a team via a trade. We better be hoping that both Oubre and Caleb play up to or outplay their contract value so they aren't considered tradable or the team is screwed.

[Arsenal]

Yes, but it's not about KJ at all. His contract is a place holder. This new cba is wild.

Tradable contracts are important. Creating one essentially out of thin air is pretty sweet. Going forward, Oubre and Caleb slot in to be those type of contracts as well.

Agreed this CBA is turning everyone into lawyers. It's ridiculous, but the reason behind it is not: the league wants to institute a hard cap, but the PA would never agree to that outright right now. So instead they created an arcane and convoluted system that enforces a hard cap on almost any transaction possible, but where the players get 51% of the revenue, teams still with the ability to exceed the cap, a brand new massive TV deal and expansion looming. So the PA decided to let the details slide because the stars who run it like those checks to keep coming in and keep going up. I suspect the league will continue gradually pushing to a hard cap until they get there over the next few CBAs.

If Oubre and Martin are "those type of contracts" going forward we're in serious trouble. The whole point of even considering that balloon payment to KJ is to supplement a team via a trade. We better be hoping that both Oubre and Caleb play up to or outplay their contract value so they aren't considered tradable or the team is screwed.

Just because they play up to their contract value doesn't mean they aren't tradable. As I'm sure you know, whether they get traded or not depends on what we get back.