Trades and Transactions thread cont - we still need a center

[Ghetto Gospel]

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Spoiler:

These people are sick.

Going to war over kessler is crazy behavior.

idk why im doing it. i promised myself rj was the last time i'd go to war over anyone

[Knick4Real]

Take this with a grain of salt...CP from KnicksFanTV says knicks still want KAT. Don't shoot the messenger...just was listening to his live stream while working and he seemed pretty adamant...more adamant then I have ever heard him.

Says the knicks wont risk losing Randle for nothing especially since they are offering Brunson an extension...and Randle is extension eligible this year as well. Big tell if they don't offer him an extension.

Obviously Randle + Mitch pretty much work financially...but I don't know how to feel. Offensively the floor would be spaced like crazy and you could have death lineups like Brunson/DD/Mikal/OG/KAT...that would basically be what BOS can put out there on a nightly basis in terms of 5 elite shooters.

Just something to keep an eye on...but gain of salt obviously.

Interesting!

Not sure if it's true or not -- but it would explain why the KNICKS haven't pulled the trigger on getting a Center yet or made any other moves.

[mpharris36]

please just attempt to add it, it doesn't.

if you did just post it. I just went through the players I know were on the Jazz that year. If you have the info why so coy about it?

i didn't for joel embiid against the jazz specifically.

i had this debate with someone a long time ago, i don't remember who, when matchup stats was brought up for i think... rj several years back. the easiest way to check is to go look at the playoff matchup data. for example, if a certain player scores 100 points in a singular playoff series, it's really easy to check especially if they get eliminated in the first round. you'll find that sometimes 120 points can get attributed, and sometimes 80 points get attributed under the matchup data. it's kinda weird.

i can see the reasoning for 120 points if there's double teams or maybe during a pnr, it gets attributed to both? i'm not sure. but sometimes less points get attributed and i don't really know where those go

Ok I see where you are coming from Embiid scored 198 pts in our playoff series and the matchup have 206. So yes looks like potentially in some cases "maybe with two closest defender" they issue it to both if they can't just do one player. But that is such a small sample size. I also don't see a situation where they attribute a basket to no one. I would have to see an instance where that is the case.

Maxey scored 179 pts in our playoff series and tracking data has 187. So in these cases I think they charge simultaneous defenders each with pts in non 1 on 1 situations.

But not sure what that proves...other than Kessler still was by far one of the better defenders on Embiid even when he lit of the Jazz for 59 pts in his MVP season.

[WargamesX]

So reading the tea leaves did the Knicks offer Ainge the two protected picks and they said no?

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

Spoiler:

These people are sick.

Going to war over kessler is crazy behavior.

This must be how sham felt when people went to war for Willy hernangomez

[Wildcat]

Take this with a grain of salt...CP from KnicksFanTV says knicks still want KAT. Don't shoot the messenger...just was listening to his live stream while working and he seemed pretty adamant...more adamant then I have ever heard him.

Says the knicks wont risk losing Randle for nothing especially since they are offering Brunson an extension...and Randle is extension eligible this year as well. Big tell if they don't offer him an extension.

Obviously Randle + Mitch pretty much work financially...but I don't know how to feel. Offensively the floor would be spaced like crazy and you could have death lineups like Brunson/DD/Mikal/OG/KAT...that would basically be what BOS can put out there on a nightly basis in terms of 5 elite shooters.

Just something to keep an eye on...but gain of salt obviously.

CP doesn't really spread false stuff like this, so I think it's somewhat legit. I'm sure there are some people in the organization that still want KAT. Doesn't necessarily mean it's a universally desired and the Knicks are sure as hell aren't blowing up their frontcourt for KAT. I don't see it happening.

Did CP or anyone else even look to see if KAT's humonguos salary would fit with our team and re-signing players we need to keep?

No, but at an eye's glance, it's Randle and Robinson for KAT. And I find that scenario absolutely trash.

[Wildcat]

Take this with a grain of salt...CP from KnicksFanTV says knicks still want KAT. Don't shoot the messenger...just was listening to his live stream while working and he seemed pretty adamant...more adamant then I have ever heard him.

Says the knicks wont risk losing Randle for nothing especially since they are offering Brunson an extension...and Randle is extension eligible this year as well. Big tell if they don't offer him an extension.

Obviously Randle + Mitch pretty much work financially...but I don't know how to feel. Offensively the floor would be spaced like crazy and you could have death lineups like Brunson/DD/Mikal/OG/KAT...that would basically be what BOS can put out there on a nightly basis in terms of 5 elite shooters.

Just something to keep an eye on...but gain of salt obviously.

CP doesn't really spread false stuff like this, so I think it's somewhat legit. I'm sure there are some people in the organization that still want KAT. Doesn't necessarily mean it's a universally desired and the Knicks are sure as hell aren't blowing up their frontcourt for KAT. I don't see it happening.

I agree I just found it interesting...and I'm not the biggest KAT guy. But one thing is true with extension talks coming up I don't think the Knicks have any interest in losing Randle for nothing....and S&T's are very difficult under the new CBA...and the Knicks don't want to lose his skill or salary for nothing.

Agreed and true.

[Guano]

Read on Twitter

Spoiler:

These people are sick.

Going to war over kessler is crazy behavior.

idk why im doing it. i promised myself rj was the last time i'd go to war over anyone

It's the offseason.

Arguing about the back up C on the jazz checks out for this place.

And it's better than arguing about Gallo vs Chandler.

And if im being honest, I'm looking forward to the og vs mikal days.

[TrueWarrior]

It’s funny what some of you guys are arguing. Nitpicking matchup stats between a 21 year old rookie Kessler against a 29 year old MVP, and it still shows he defended him the best on his team.

If Kessler was a star already he wouldn’t even be available. He’s at the perfect level for us to trade for with our remaining assets. He is a better fit here than on the Jazz, and can probably replace Mitch as the starter in 1-2 years, if not sooner.

What other center do you see “shaking loose” who would fit our system, timeline, cap, etc over the next year or two? We cant wait around forever. Our window is open now. Things have changed. It’s go time. We cannot count on Mitch being healthy in June.

Yeah I'm really have a problem deciphering the con against Kessler. Ok if you say the price is too rich that is one thing. But to say he's bad or mid or whatever. We need him to be a backup center and mitch insurance. In terms of the reported available guys that actually fit on a low salary he is the best of the bunch.

Like you said the Jazz **** with him last year and he wasn't happy about it and they were moving towards a 5 out offense and tanking. So after his first year like you mentioned before they would have laughed at a duece + protected picks type package. His value has shifted and that is the only reason we May even have a shot to acquire him.

We are at a point our needs matter more. Just look at our roster balance...we can sustain a injury to a perimeter player and be ok...we can't survive currently a Mitch injury...and the FO knows it that is why they are looking at all cheap bigs on the market right now.

We see eye to eye on this one.

Also the all-in-one stats like EPM, DARKO, LEBRON, RAPTOR, etc are heavily weighted towards players on winning teams, yet Kessler still put up very good numbers in them for a 21-22 year old.

I doubt we agree to anything with Ainge though, so this is moot. Im just not seeing anybody better we can possibly get than Kessler for our remaining assets (Deuce, heavily protected firsts, swaps, 2nd rounders, etc).

We dont just need an okay backup. With Mitch’s health and weaknesses we at least need a co-starter like Isaiah was. Paul Reed, Precious, or Jericho are not that. Richards is meh all around. Kessler has All-NBA defense upside and he’s already better than Mitch on offense.

[GONYK]

The worst part about the Kessler debates is having to see that stupid purple throwback uniform every page. It was ugly then and uglier now.

[thebuzzardman]

KAT rumors probably WWW leaking stuff to make it look like he still has a function, squeeze another year or two out of Dolan

[thebuzzardman]

These people are sick.

Going to war over kessler is crazy behavior.

idk why im doing it. i promised myself rj was the last time i'd go to war over anyone

It's the offseason.

Arguing about the back up C on the jazz checks out for this place.

And it's better than arguing about Gallo vs Chandler.

And if im being honest, I'm looking forward to the og vs mikal days.

Mikal > OG

[Fat Kat]

Read on Twitter

[Ghetto Gospel]

if you did just post it. I just went through the players I know were on the Jazz that year. If you have the info why so coy about it?

i didn't for joel embiid against the jazz specifically.

i had this debate with someone a long time ago, i don't remember who, when matchup stats was brought up for i think... rj several years back. the easiest way to check is to go look at the playoff matchup data. for example, if a certain player scores 100 points in a singular playoff series, it's really easy to check especially if they get eliminated in the first round. you'll find that sometimes 120 points can get attributed, and sometimes 80 points get attributed under the matchup data. it's kinda weird.

i can see the reasoning for 120 points if there's double teams or maybe during a pnr, it gets attributed to both? i'm not sure. but sometimes less points get attributed and i don't really know where those go

Ok I see where you are coming from Embiid scored 198 pts in our playoff series and the matchup have 206. So yes looks like potentially in some cases "maybe with two closest defender" they issue it to both if they can't just do one player. But that is such a small sample size. I also don't see a situation where they attribute a basket to no one. I would have to see an instance where that is the case.

Maxey scored 179 pts in our playoff series and tracking data has 187. So in these cases I think they charge simultaneous defenders each with pts in non 1 on 1 situations.

But not sure what that proves...other than Kessler still was by far one of the better defenders on Embiid even when he lit of the Jazz for 59 pts in his MVP season.

jimmy butler in 2017-2018 is missing a few points. i remember when i checked a couple of years ago, there were some high discrepancy guys that were missing a lot of points, i'm not going to look too deeply for it now though like i did when the rj wars were serious business

[BKlutch]

iHart has nothing to do with anything. He agreed to a deal that was a bet on himself. He won the bet because OKC had the money to spend. That's not poor asset management.

I hate the 2031 pick in the Mikal deal but, that's about it.

ObI is a bench player. No one is thinking about him or Grimes.

The team has gone from 21 wins to 50 wins. They made mistakes along the way but, here we are with a title contender for the first time in a very long time. We should be competing at the top of the league for several more years. So, being able to question the teams asset management is fine but, credit is due for where they took this team in a few short years. No GM has been able to do anything like this without destroying the future in over two decades.

I'm not saying everything they have done is bad. But you do imply lots is bad.

They have done some good and some bad. Kind of you to give Rose & Co. some small recognition, considering how little they've done for the team.

Picking up Brunson was a game changer. I give them credit for that but if Dallas had retained Brunson i'm not sure exactly how things would have played out. Wow, manna from the heavens. Of course, you know we didn't do anything to help make that happen. It was never a tentpole of our strategic planning Right?

It's just interesting watching how many Mikal trades were proposed on this board in the last year that gave up less assets and how strongly they were shot down by many other posters probably including yourself to basically only seeing one guy strongly questioning this trade. Could it not be true that some things needed to happen before others, and we needed to see how our current team was performing?

I still remain optimistic for the team as a fan but I can still see how things could have been handled better. I'm sure there's not a single person here who doubts you could have done a far better job than everything our FO has done.

[spree2kawhi]

Hoopshype says the Knicks are interested in Bertans. Could be worse, but also better.

where is bertans playing...certainly not small ball 5

He’s a stretch 5 obviously. Career 39.6 3P%

[KnixinSix]

Would y'all have him or Luke Kennard? Or is it because of his size and our frontcourt doesn't have a lot of offensive capabilities not named Randle.

Bertans would get Fourniered by Thibs

'
yeah bertans is a wing...that hasn't rebounded or defended in his career. Thibs would never player him.

These are 10-15 minute guys you bring in and bracket around other defenders

[god shammgod]

We ain’t getting him anyway. All these wasted keystrokes….like tears in rain lol

[KnixinSix]

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Even if we wanted to I Don't think we could offer 3 FRPS...so it isn't us

[spree8]

Ainge just seems like a horrible person to play monopoly with.

Yup he’s the type that will make you trade your 3 complete property color groups with houses and hotels, plus all the railroads and utilities you got for Boardwalk alone.

Snake