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Would you move Deuce for Kessler?

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Would you move Deuce for Kessler?

Yes
55
53%
No
48
47%
 
Total votes: 103

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Re: Would you move Deuce for Kessler? 

Post#21 » by Zenzibar » Tue Jul 9, 2024 11:46 pm

nykballa2k4 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:Nope.

Jazz are a developing team, and if they are parting with him, that means they don't really value him. I think we can cobble together a few vets (Robin Lopez, Willie Cauley Stien) and pay them a hair over the min, then trade them in february for a more sustainable answer.

McBride was home grown and has an important role.



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good idea lets go sign guys who haven't played meaningful minutes in the last 3 years :lol: :lol: :lol:


I just need 12 good fouls on Embiid. Otherwise we have Mitch, Precious and to a lesser extent Sims for actual basketball minutes.


Its not just 12 fouls my guy. Its team fouls too and that will definately be bad given the scrubs we are mentioning here. Lol
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Re: Would you move Deuce for Kessler? 

Post#22 » by Zenzibar » Tue Jul 9, 2024 11:53 pm

ORS
Knicks backup center looks sharp in workouts
Maybe New York doesn’t need to acquire another center after all.

By Russell Richardson Jul 6, 2024, 11:36am EDT 190 Comments

Free Agent Isaiah Hartenstein was expected to depart New York this offseason, given that another team’s offer could be far beyond the Knicks’ matching capacity. Indeed, Hartenstein signed a three-year, $87 million contract with the Thunder, while New York could only offer the big man a maximum of four years, $72 million.

Thus, Mitchell Robinson remains the club’s starting center, having been in that role before Hartenstein’s emergence due to injuries. The 26-year-old Robinson will be crucial for the Knicks’ success this season, particularly in offensive rebounding. Currently, he is rehabbing from another ankle surgery. Despite concerns about his health, Robinson is considered a valuable team player who is highly regarded by his teammates.

New York has its sights on an NBA title after trading for Mikal Bridges and re-signing OG Anunoby to a $212.5 million contract. A lack of depth at the center position could severely hinder that plan, however. One solution available to coach Tom Thibodeau is to use Julius Randle more often as a small-ball center, especially when paired with a versatile defender like Anunoby. This approach would be effective in short stretches but is not a great strategy against big men like Nikola Jokic and Joel Embiid.

Given Robinson’s undeniable injury history, there’s a resounding cry amongst the fans that the Knicks need a backup center after losing Hartenstein. Re-signing 6’8”, 225 lb Precious Achiuwa, who played well for New York last season, and adding another player using the taxpayer mid-level exception should be doable, assuming Achiuwa’s price is affordable.

The New York Knicks declined to extend a $6.3 million qualifying offer to Precious Achiuwa on June 30, 2024, making him an unrestricted free agent instead of a restricted one. He has received interest from several contending teams, but according to multiple sources he remains open to returning to New York. With some cap flexibility, the Knicks can re-sign Achiuwa and use the taxpayer midlevel exception ($5.2 million) to sign another free agent.

The market for centers is awfully thin: Mo Wagner signed a two-year, $22 million deal with the Magic; James Wiseman joined Indiana on a two-year deal; Xavier Tillman signed with the Celtics; and Mo Bamba signed a one-year deal with the Clippers. Goga Bitadze, Jonas Valanciunas, and Andre Drummond were also previously targeted by the Knicks but signed deals elsewhere. Veterans like Taj Gibson, Daniel Theis, or Tristan Thompson could provide depth during the regular season but would be unplayable in the playoffs.

The Knicks have shown interest in trading for Walker Kessler. Currently employed by the Utah Jazz, Kessler had a strong rookie season but a less impactful second season, in part due to injury. Subsequently, he was demoted to the bench, and there might be friction between Kessler and Jazz head coach Will Hardy. Rival executives believe that Utah’s Danny Ainge might listen to trade offers for Kessler.

Despite the slump, the Jazz still say positive things about Kessler and plan to play him in the upcoming Summer League.

The Knicks drafted Ariel Hukporti with the 58th pick in the 2024 NBA Draft. Hukporti is a promising, if raw, young center, who will need G League seasoning before logging minutes at MSG. But one player who is already on the Knicks’ roster and oft-overlooked in all this discussion seems to be on a campaign to change public opinion about his game.


Third-string Knicks center Jericho Sims, whose team option for $2,092,344 was picked up, provides another valid option. And the good news is, he’s been getting up shots in the gym!


Jericho Sims was selected by the New York Knicks with the 58th overall pick in the second round of the 2021 NBA draft. As memory serves, the 6’10”, 245 lb Sims showed flashes of a floater in Summer League’s past, but it’s been a while. Sims is primarily known for his athleticism (he competed in 2023’s Slam Dunk competition), defensive skills, and ability to finish at the rim, but rarely shoots from beyond a putt. Well now . . . get a load of this!


Thus far, Sims—who will turn 26 this season—has offered no floor spacing or perimeter skills, and we know that gym work is much different than game action. Still, given all the time he appears to be investing in developing his shot, perhaps we can expect a little more offensive chutzpah next season?

Is Sims a viable second option behind Mitch? Does his shooting form look legit? Discuss below. Go Knicks!

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Re: Would you move Deuce for Kessler? 

Post#23 » by TrueWarrior » Wed Jul 10, 2024 12:03 am

Knicks fans have to recognize by now that Deuce is the next young gun to be traded. Whether it’s for Kessler or somebody else, the writing is on the wall that he is on borrowed time. Accept it and dont get too attached.

RJ, IQ, Obi, Grimes, & Cam are all gone, along with most of our picks.

We just drafted Tyler Kolek and gave him a big 2nd round contract. Rokas is playing in summer league too. Between these 2 guys, 1 should be able to play the 12 mpg behind Jalen. If not them, a vet.

Mikal and Donte can do everything Deuce does, and they only missed 1 game between them last season. Mikal defends 1-3. Donte is a better shooter with more size. Neither are going anywhere.

Deuce is a damn good 2nd round pick on a nice contract with 3/D potential, but he’s still only 6’1” and has shown no PG skills. His defense is solid but far from elite, and we dont know if his shooting will sustain either. His value could lower this season unless major injuries happen.

We drafted IQ, Grimes, and Deuce just in the last few years in the late first/2nd. Shump, Toney Douglas, Wilson Chandler, Ariza, Nate, etc before them. Lin and Galloway were gotten on the minimum. And that is with not having picks, or trading them, half the time. Backup combo guards are easy to replace. Starting centers are not.

But yes I would easily trade Deuce for Kessler. Who are we going to get better than him who fits our system, cap, timeline, etc? The Jazz wouldn’t want Deuce though most likely (he’d have to be traded to a 3rd team for a lightly protected 1st), and would want 1 or both of our protected picks along with 2nds. Id prob give em that.

After the Mikal trade, we are all in now for the next 5+ years. We cannot expect Mitch to stay healthy or improve his glaring flaws. We need Kessler or another center as good or better than him if we’re serious. We shouldn’t waste prime years waiting when we have enough to win it all now. Pull the trigger.
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Re: Would you move Deuce for Kessler? 

Post#24 » by Context » Wed Jul 10, 2024 12:03 am

RHODEY wrote:
Context wrote:If deuce was available for Kessler he wold have been gone. Deuce is very valuable because of what he demostrated in the play-offs- because he can score and defend and his CONTRACT.
Utah could flip him easy!

Now, as far as do I think Kessler is worth Deuce? I cant really answer that because I need to know how Thibs feels...thats the key...

Well some theorize that Lauri Markeenan is holding up any Kessler trades. I personally think something is cooking because we haven't yet signed Precious ....even though he is by far the best available bigman out there.

So far I see that the board is almost equally for and against moving Deuce for Kessler....

I agree about something cooking because its quiet on Precious...I also expect the knick to make a move on a center-
this is the time for us to strike-we have all of the pieces...
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Re: Would you move Deuce for Kessler? 

Post#25 » by nykballa2k4 » Wed Jul 10, 2024 1:11 am

Zenzibar wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:

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good idea lets go sign guys who haven't played meaningful minutes in the last 3 years :lol: :lol: :lol:


I just need 12 good fouls on Embiid. Otherwise we have Mitch, Precious and to a lesser extent Sims for actual basketball minutes.


Its not just 12 fouls my guy. Its team fouls too and that will definately be bad given the scrubs we are mentioning here. Lol


WCS is just an example of a stand in obviously.

I do think Robin Lopez should be able to play a situational role. Brooke is still out here playing big minutes, he is an offensive option though obviously.

But I want some guys with size and proven defensive track record. We also can take a chance on a guy like Yurtseven or Sandro but we need a functional barrier behind Mitch to stay between Embiid and the basket.
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Re: Would you move Deuce for Kessler? 

Post#26 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Jul 10, 2024 1:20 am

The real question is do you drop a deuce when making a move?
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Re: Would you move Deuce for Kessler? 

Post#27 » by Jeffrey » Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:13 am

Call Portland and ask what they want for Doup Reath.
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Re: Would you move Deuce for Kessler? 

Post#28 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Jul 10, 2024 7:03 am

Hell no. That like counts as 2 nos.
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Re: Would you move Deuce for Kessler? 

Post#29 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Jul 10, 2024 7:05 am

They can have a deuce and a quarter.
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Re: Would you move Deuce for Kessler? 

Post#30 » by StlHawksFan » Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:28 am

We still have non-bird rights for Brown and Jeffries. We could sign each of them to 120% above the minimum, like we did with Milton, without eating into the MLE (if we signed Lopez or others above the min it would come out of the MLE).

So those two guys could each get a deal for $2.685M. Then we could aggregate them without violating the first apron rules. That would serve as the salary filler for Kessler or Richards. The question is how much draft capital would need to be added. I think we could get Richards for 2 2nds. But clearly Utah wants a 1st, and I don't think he's worth the Detroit pick.

For those that haven't paid attention, Detroit is probably the 9th or 10th best team in the East this year. That pick is going to convey -- probably in 2026 or 2027.
2025 Top13 protected
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That's better than Washington, Brooklyn, Charlotte, Atlanta, Chicago, and maybe even Toronto. While they could surprise and win their playin, it's more likely they hang around that range the next two seasons and the Knicks wind up with a late lottery pick in 26 or 27.
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Re: Would you move Deuce for Kessler? 

Post#31 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Jul 10, 2024 12:32 pm

Knicks pumped up that Grimes and Deuce value and have already drafted their replacements.

I know it sucks to lose homegrown players, but this is what good teams do with role players.
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Re: Would you move Deuce for Kessler? 

Post#32 » by NYKinMIA » Wed Jul 10, 2024 12:57 pm

I don't think we have enough anyway for Danny Strainge to fuqs with us.

Deuce and 2nd rounders won't cut it for Kessler. that said, I think he'd thrive here.
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Re: Would you move Deuce for Kessler? 

Post#33 » by DrCoach » Wed Jul 10, 2024 2:13 pm

Its a fair trade
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Re: Would you move Deuce for Kessler? 

Post#34 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Jul 10, 2024 2:23 pm

Nope. Ainge is a bastard.
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Re: Would you move Deuce for Kessler? 

Post#35 » by Zenzibar » Wed Jul 10, 2024 2:37 pm

nykballa2k4 wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:
I just need 12 good fouls on Embiid. Otherwise we have Mitch, Precious and to a lesser extent Sims for actual basketball minutes.


Its not just 12 fouls my guy. Its team fouls too and that will definately be bad given the scrubs we are mentioning here. Lol


WCS is just an example of a stand in obviously.

I do think Robin Lopez should be able to play a situational role. Brooke is still out here playing big minutes, he is an offensive option though obviously.

But I want some guys with size and proven defensive track record. We also can take a chance on a guy like Yurtseven or Sandro but we need a functional barrier behind Mitch to stay between Embiid and the basket.



You wouldn't trust that Jericho Sims has worked hard and is ready to contribute in a bigger role?
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Re: Would you move Deuce for Kessler? 

Post#36 » by Synciere » Wed Jul 10, 2024 2:53 pm

No. Because I'm not sure Kessler is even worth the first round pick Ainge is demanding. We're trying to negotiate out of a position of near desperation and it's clouding our judgement. Let's slow our roll a bit and see how the season goes and who else might shake loose around the league by the trade deadline.
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Re: Would you move Deuce for Kessler? 

Post#37 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:21 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:Knicks pumped up that Grimes and Deuce value and have already drafted their replacements.

I know it sucks to lose homegrown players, but this is what good teams do with role players.


But for Kessler?
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Re: Would you move Deuce for Kessler? 

Post#38 » by sol537 » Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:29 pm

Hold onto Deuce for depth or a future trade... do this instead:

Kessler for Sims (plus filler), Dadiet, WAS 1st, DET 1st

Utah says "look, we got three firsts!" and we fill a major need. Win-win.
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Re: Would you move Deuce for Kessler? 

Post#39 » by Nazrmohamed » Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:43 pm

nykballa2k4 wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:
I just need 12 good fouls on Embiid. Otherwise we have Mitch, Precious and to a lesser extent Sims for actual basketball minutes.


Its not just 12 fouls my guy. Its team fouls too and that will definately be bad given the scrubs we are mentioning here. Lol


WCS is just an example of a stand in obviously.

I do think Robin Lopez should be able to play a situational role. Brooke is still out here playing big minutes, he is an offensive option though obviously.

But I want some guys with size and proven defensive track record. We also can take a chance on a guy like Yurtseven or Sandro but we need a functional barrier behind Mitch to stay between Embiid and the basket.



My answer to the thread question is yes, absolutely. I'm not as high on Deuce and would trade him for allot less than a C who's most likely to start 20plus games and could wind up our starter for the next decade. Especially for a guard who can't facilitate or score off the dribble at 6'2. And who's ro,e will likely get reduced with our upgrade at SG, thus moving DVC to the bench.


However, these are great ideas you just posed. Assuming no trade happens, which I never have faith in anyway, your solution shouldn't be getting the negativity it's getting. You need minutes eaters. People forget, even healthy Mitch is about a 27minute player. It's your best chance to get him to 70 games which in and of itself is silly cuz you're already assuming he misses 12 games automatically, and that's his career high. Most seasons it's 55. We' re in really bad shape here for a team whose coach prefers to play big and even when he went small still had a C. Which takes me back to my first point, why would McBride hold up a trade for a guy who's potential is a 13yr starter at C. We got Hartestein a but more mature but I think Kessler is the better longterm player. I'd fully expect him to overtake Mitch eventually
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Re: Would you move Deuce for Kessler? 

Post#40 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:46 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Knicks pumped up that Grimes and Deuce value and have already drafted their replacements.

I know it sucks to lose homegrown players, but this is what good teams do with role players.


But for Kessler?


Who knows.
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