Spurs should trade Vassell for picks and expirings

[winforlose]

I know the idea is that the Spurs should build around Wemby and this is not the way to do it. But, assuming they can poach Markkanen in free agency next year and assuming they get a decent return on Vassell, they would have the salary slot to sign anyone to a max or sign multiple role players, or the trade assets to get a 3rd star. Also some combination of 2 new max players and some role players is possible if they are willing to pay the tax. Which brings us to the questions.

1. What is Vassell’s trade value?

2. Who would trade for him?

[Skybox]

If you include him in the offer, SAS. might have a shot at Lauri now…I just can’t imagine Ainge letting Lauri’s trade window close without certainty of extending…if you want him, go for it now because he’s unlikely to be hanging out there in FA, imo

[winforlose]

If you include him in the offer, SAS. might have a shot at Lauri now…I just can’t imagine Ainge letting Lauri’s trade window close without certainty of extending…if you want him, go for it now because he’s unlikely to be hanging out there in FA, imo

If you’re Markkanen why would you extend? Pretend you want out of Utah and onto a team with a chance at glory during your prime. Resigning with Utah forces that team to trade huge assets to get you. That chance at glory takes a huge hit. Also, with the TV money coming in maxes get more valuable every year. Why wouldn’t Lauri take a 2 year player option on the second year max wherever he wants to play. If he gets hurt he stays and gets the money. If he is healthy he opts out, signs a new deal for more money. The only incentive Markkanen has to extend with Utah is loyalty to the Jazz, and frankly, I don’t see why he would willing bleed any team he wants to play for of assets just to help out his old team.

P.S with the picks SAS gets for Vassell they can bring Markkanen and Wemby another star, not to mention Castle developing and enough space and assets to attack free agency. It just makes too much sense unless Markkanen doesn’t want to play for the Spurs.

[tmorgan]

As long as Utah continues to hold cap space available to R&E Lauri during the season, I don’t believe any of these Utah doomsday scenarios. Odds are Lauri cares about himself first, Utah second, and any future team he might be on third. Thus, unless he is dealt soon for a strong return Ainge is happy with (doubtful), he takes his R&E when offered and then starts thinking beyond that. It’s the logical decision.

[bgrep14]

I’d give Lavert, Niang, Merrill, and Jerome but someone would likely offer a better package.

[jbk1234]

He's reportedly untouchable. While I don't agree with that assessment, that's where the Spurs are presently at. Also, they already have plenty of picks.

[TimDunkin]

I do not understand why the Spurs would get rid of a very efficient soon-to-be 24 year old who has improved every year, played well with Vic, and is contractually locked up until basically the end of the decade... It would make more sense if it was a move for Booker or something, but the Spurs don't need more picks that badly and haven't ever been a huge free agent destination.

Edit: As to which contending teams could use him, I would say the Bucks, Cavs, Nuggets, Lakers, Warriors, and maybe the Grizz. Mavs if they hadn't paid Klay. Only the Warriors, Nuggets, and Grizzlies have the assets to make a compelling offer.

Noncontending teams - Given his youth, any team would probably work.

[BlazersBroncos]

I’d give Lavert, Niang, Merrill, and Jerome but someone would likely offer a better package.

What player in this package would SAS be even slightly interested in for a guy of Vassell's caliber?

[Colbinii]

Seems like an idea the Spurs would never consider, and rightfully so

[Bornstellar]

Yeah, no. Have you seen the contacts getting handed out lately to middling players? Vassell has improved every year and his contract looks like a bargain compared to similarly talented players, especially with the cap going up. I mean he's making less than guys like Tyler Herro or Jordan Poole. His contract even goes down to around 24M in the year Wemby is due to get his extension. I see no reason for SA to just dump him for picks and expirings especially considering his fit around Victor

[OGSactownballer]

If you include him in the offer, SAS. might have a shot at Lauri now…I just can’t imagine Ainge letting Lauri’s trade window close without certainty of extending…if you want him, go for it now because he’s unlikely to be hanging out there in FA, imo

If you’re Markkanen why would you extend? Pretend you want out of Utah and onto a team with a chance at glory during your prime. Resigning with Utah forces that team to trade huge assets to get you. That chance at glory takes a huge hit. Also, with the TV money coming in maxes get more valuable every year. Why wouldn’t Lauri take a 2 year player option on the second year max wherever he wants to play. If he gets hurt he stays and gets the money. If he is healthy he opts out, signs a new deal for more money. The only incentive Markkanen has to extend with Utah is loyalty to the Jazz, and frankly, I don’t see why he would willing bleed any team he wants to play for of assets just to help out his old team.

P.S with the picks SAS gets for Vassell they can bring Markkanen and Wemby another star, not to mention Castle developing and enough space and assets to attack free agency. It just makes too much sense unless Markkanen doesn’t want to play for the Spurs.

The latest noise is that Markkanen intends to go the FA route and will not extend.

That tells me that no matter what “right things” are being quoted from him or his camp, the reality is he sees what is happening and he wants out now to get with a team that will actually contend and that his camp is subtly letting Ainge know not to play around or they will simply leave him with nothing next year.

It’s a good tactic because Ainge is greedy and plays hardball. You have to come back twice as hard against bullies like that with reality not a threat. And the reality of Lauri simply walking is a harsh one that hurts because Utah traditionally has to draft or trade for stars players, they don’t just go there as FA’s. So essentially they are saying “have fun with the useless cap space if you want to scare everyone off by over asking for Lauri”.

[OGSactownballer]

Yeah, no. Have you seen the contacts getting handed out lately to middling players? Vassell has improved every year and his contract looks like a bargain compared to similarly talented players, especially with the cap going up. I mean he's making less than guys like Tyler Herro or Jordan Poole. His contract even goes down to around 24M in the year Wemby is due to get his extension. I see no reason for SA to just dump him for picks and expirings especially considering his fit around Victor

Back to the main thread, this here is exactly the close of this idea in general.

He is a great fit with Wemby and they are in a place to grow together. Why in the world would you move him at this point when you aren’t close to ready to compete at a contending level? It would have to be that “move for a complimentary star” type of deal because Vassell has good value in his own right.

So no logic to even thinking about this for at least two more seasons.

[Chinook]

What "failure" in the process has resulted from Vassell being on the team? OP makes a claim that the Spurs should trade their second-best player because "this isn't it", but doesn't do anything to explain why this isn't it. The best I can see is because the Spurs should be aiming at bringing in two max players around Wemby. That's not a sustainable way to build in the new CBA.

Vassell is signed for five years and a deal that will only look better as time goes on. If you think he has value to contenders but isn't a "third star", you probably don't actually know what kind of player he is. He's not like Bridges in that he's a three-and-D role-player with delusions of grandeur. He's more like a modern-wing version of Rudy Gay. He could shore up the scoring while contributing to the defense for a team trying to stabilize its place in the Western Conference playoff picture -- for example, I think he would've been a better piece for Sacramento than DeRozan. But an actual contender wouldn't have a ton of use for him, because they typically don't reach contending status without those things handled. Perhaps if he had been drafted by another team, he'd be the super role-player contenders would love. But like with DeJounte that's not the path he and the Spurs chose.

[winforlose]

Yeah, no. Have you seen the contacts getting handed out lately to middling players? Vassell has improved every year and his contract looks like a bargain compared to similarly talented players, especially with the cap going up. I mean he's making less than guys like Tyler Herro or Jordan Poole. His contract even goes down to around 24M in the year Wemby is due to get his extension. I see no reason for SA to just dump him for picks and expirings especially considering his fit around Victor

The reasoning was the cap space and trade assets to get someone better. SAS is in the unique position to build a big 3 and reinforce it with young players, free agents, and role players acquired with trade assets. If you think DV is that third star then by all means ride with him. I wasn’t suggesting a simple dump, I was suggesting a sale for assets to be used in the very short term to make further deals.

[BK_2020]

Vassell's a solid young player making 17% of the cap locked up for the next five seasons. Seasons 4 and 5, he's just 13% of the cap. The Spurs would not be better with picks and expirings.

[mg]

If you include him in the offer, SAS. might have a shot at Lauri now…I just can’t imagine Ainge letting Lauri’s trade window close without certainty of extending…if you want him, go for it now because he’s unlikely to be hanging out there in FA, imo

If you’re Markkanen why would you extend? Pretend you want out of Utah and onto a team with a chance at glory during your prime. Resigning with Utah forces that team to trade huge assets to get you. That chance at glory takes a huge hit. Also, with the TV money coming in maxes get more valuable every year. Why wouldn’t Lauri take a 2 year player option on the second year max wherever he wants to play. If he gets hurt he stays and gets the money. If he is healthy he opts out, signs a new deal for more money. The only incentive Markkanen has to extend with Utah is loyalty to the Jazz, and frankly, I don’t see why he would willing bleed any team he wants to play for of assets just to help out his old team.

P.S with the picks SAS gets for Vassell they can bring Markkanen and Wemby another star, not to mention Castle developing and enough space and assets to attack free agency. It just makes too much sense unless Markkanen doesn’t want to play for the Spurs.

The latest noise is that Markkanen intends to go the FA route and will not extend.

That tells me that no matter what “right things” are being quoted from him or his camp, the reality is he sees what is happening and he wants out now to get with a team that will actually contend and that his camp is subtly letting Ainge know not to play around or they will simply leave him with nothing next year.

It’s a good tactic because Ainge is greedy and plays hardball. You have to come back twice as hard against bullies like that with reality not a threat. And the reality of Lauri simply walking is a harsh one that hurts because Utah traditionally has to draft or trade for stars players, they don’t just go there as FA’s. So essentially they are saying “have fun with the useless cap space if you want to scare everyone off by over asking for Lauri”.

I'll believe it when I see it. It's rare for a player to turn down $200 mil + and an immediate $20+ mil raise in a renegotiation. This will be Lauri's first major bag as he's barely paid over MLE at this point.

[winforlose]

If you’re Markkanen why would you extend? Pretend you want out of Utah and onto a team with a chance at glory during your prime. Resigning with Utah forces that team to trade huge assets to get you. That chance at glory takes a huge hit. Also, with the TV money coming in maxes get more valuable every year. Why wouldn’t Lauri take a 2 year player option on the second year max wherever he wants to play. If he gets hurt he stays and gets the money. If he is healthy he opts out, signs a new deal for more money. The only incentive Markkanen has to extend with Utah is loyalty to the Jazz, and frankly, I don’t see why he would willing bleed any team he wants to play for of assets just to help out his old team.

P.S with the picks SAS gets for Vassell they can bring Markkanen and Wemby another star, not to mention Castle developing and enough space and assets to attack free agency. It just makes too much sense unless Markkanen doesn’t want to play for the Spurs.

The latest noise is that Markkanen intends to go the FA route and will not extend.

That tells me that no matter what “right things” are being quoted from him or his camp, the reality is he sees what is happening and he wants out now to get with a team that will actually contend and that his camp is subtly letting Ainge know not to play around or they will simply leave him with nothing next year.

It’s a good tactic because Ainge is greedy and plays hardball. You have to come back twice as hard against bullies like that with reality not a threat. And the reality of Lauri simply walking is a harsh one that hurts because Utah traditionally has to draft or trade for stars players, they don’t just go there as FA’s. So essentially they are saying “have fun with the useless cap space if you want to scare everyone off by over asking for Lauri”.

I'll believe it when I see it. It's rare for a player to turn down $200 mil + and an immediate $20+ mil raise in a renegotiation. This will be Lauri's first major bag as he's barely paid over MLE at this point.

It’s also rare to be in his position. Ainge keeps trying to trade him. Resigning with the Jazz (who are tanking,) is basically someone else telling him where to live for the next 5 years.) Also, with cap smoothing and the new tv money, if he signed a 5 year max in free agency he would get at least 4 mil more per year each of the deal over the next 5 years. If however he goes the 2 year then 2 year route, he stands to make a lot more per year in the later years. remember a max is based on 30% of the max and then raises built in every year.) So he ends up better off financially on my model and gets to pick the team he wants/city he wants. It might not happen, but there is no reason it couldn’t happen.

[tcheco]

Spurs are not trading their second best player for picks for the chance of offering a max next year to a player that might be as good as Vassel. They just took on Barnes for a future swap that clogged their cap, and Barnes is nowhere near the level of player that Vassel is.

Spurs are a in great position to make a move to add a player as soon as next offseason(or even this one) with the current assets and contracts they have.

They have after this season:
20M from Paul and Jones expiring
Zach Collins and Barnes combining as 37M expiring contracts
That's without having to extend anyone next offseason. Plenty of room and plenty o expiring to make a trade and sign complimentary players

[wemby]

Vassell's a solid young player making 17% of the cap locked up for the next five seasons. Seasons 4 and 5, he's just 13% of the cap. The Spurs would not be better with picks and expirings.

Right. Vassell's declining contract makes it very hard Spurs can find equivalent production at a his skill set, with similar projection. It'd be a step back for the Spurs to trade him for filler and picks, hoping those picks in a few years can get you another Vassell. Unless we're talking about a massive overpay, there's no sense in trading Vassell.

[winforlose]

Vassell's a solid young player making 17% of the cap locked up for the next five seasons. Seasons 4 and 5, he's just 13% of the cap. The Spurs would not be better with picks and expirings.

Right. Vassell's declining contract makes it very hard Spurs can find equivalent production at a his skill set, with similar projection. It'd be a step back for the Spurs to trade him for filler and picks, hoping those picks in a few years can get you another Vassell. Unless we're talking about a massive overpay, there's no sense in trading Vassell.

This response makes me question if you read the original post. I did not suggest using the picks you trade him to draft players, but rather as trade bait for your 3rd star. Put another way, do you believe a big 3 of Wemby, Markkanen, and Vassell is contender worthy in 25-26? If not my point was the Spurs have enough assets and cap to replace Vassell with a 3rd star and add the supporting cast behind them to essentially end the rebuild and compete at the top of the west.