Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4

[LloydFree]

Yes. I know the numbers favor Lowry, but watching the two in person, last year, made me feel Beverly was more impactful on the games I saw. Cam Payne seemed more impactful too.

This 76ers team needs toughness and attitude over everything. Embiid and Paul George need to be surrounded by agitators, when the playoffs come. Gimme Pat Bev, Marcus Morris and/or Jae Crowder, and I'm good.

I respect your opinion, but I'm sure you know that Kyle Lowry is a notorious agitator also.

Personally I'm indifferent between Bev, Lowry and Payne. They all bring similar overall impact at this point.

Pat Bev was impactful but we desperately need a secondary ballhandler and that is Lowry

The 76ers aren't in as desperate need of a secondary ball handler, this year, as last year. Paul George and Caleb Martin can get the ball up court and can create without Maxey's help. Lowry is great at the entry pass, which they need, but that skill alone, isn't enough to make me want him over Pat Bev (or Cam Payne for that matter.)

[kriss73]

I respect your opinion, but I'm sure you know that Kyle Lowry is a notorious agitator also.

Personally I'm indifferent between Bev, Lowry and Payne. They all bring similar overall impact at this point.

Pat Bev was impactful but we desperately need a secondary ballhandler and that is Lowry

The 76ers aren't in as desperate need of a secondary ball handler, this year, as last year. Paul George and Caleb Martin can get the ball up court and can create without Maxey's help. Lowry is great at the entry pass, which they need, but that skill alone, isn't enough to make me want him over Pat Bev (or Cam Payne for that matter.)

Personally I don't trust neither Caleb nor George as initiators comig playoff time. I mean the 10 minutes or so when Maxey is on the bench. During the RS? it' ok but in a playoff enviroment no, i prefer a "pure" PG

[sixers hoops]

You prefer Pat Bev straight up over Lowry?

Yes. I know the numbers favor Lowry, but watching the two in person, last year, made me feel Beverly was more impactful on the games I saw. Cam Payne seemed more impactful too.

This 76ers team needs toughness and attitude over everything. Embiid and Paul George need to be surrounded by agitators, when the playoffs come. Gimme Pat Bev, Marcus Morris and/or Jae Crowder, and I'm good.

I respect your opinion, but I'm sure you know that Kyle Lowry is a notorious agitator also.

Personally I'm indifferent between Bev, Lowry and Payne. They all bring similar overall impact at this point.

I don’t have a strong opinion, but I believe we traded Pat Bev because Lowry became available. And Nurse clearly preferred Lowry to Payne. I think Nurse will push for Lowry.

[LloydFree]

Yes. I know the numbers favor Lowry, but watching the two in person, last year, made me feel Beverly was more impactful on the games I saw. Cam Payne seemed more impactful too.

This 76ers team needs toughness and attitude over everything. Embiid and Paul George need to be surrounded by agitators, when the playoffs come. Gimme Pat Bev, Marcus Morris and/or Jae Crowder, and I'm good.

I respect your opinion, but I'm sure you know that Kyle Lowry is a notorious agitator also.

Personally I'm indifferent between Bev, Lowry and Payne. They all bring similar overall impact at this point.

I don’t have a strong opinion, but I believe we traded Pat Bev because Lowry became available. And Nurse clearly preferred Lowry to Payne. I think Nurse will push for Lowry.

You could be right, regarding the Nick Nurse factor. But I didn't take the Pat Bev trade as them preferring Lowry to Pat Bev, so much as being able to get a free 2nd round pick Plus Cam Payne, Plus Kyle Lowry.

[Ben]

Is everyone convinced that RoCo's washed? Because when he played, he was still the best of any of the remaining, possible, inexpensive PF backups (by a fairly wide margin).

I'm increasingly worried that the Sixers will get really screwed at the 4, either because PG will have to play there and there'll be major defensive liabilities b/c three of the starting 5 will be below average defenders at their positions, OR because we'll play someone else at the 4 who will suck even worse. Marcus Morris is not a starting-caliber PF on a decent team. Nor is DFS. I can't identify anyone out there, either a FA or someone on a bad team who might be available at the trade deadline, who's above average all around. Really starting to bum me out.

Those of you who feel as if we just need to sign, say, Morris, Lonnie Walker (who I'd love), and Lowry or Bev: how do you see the team dealing with the 4?

[ckchen]

How much does KJ Martin have to make in order to trade for Lauri Markkanen come the trade deadline. Especially if the Jazz are tanking hard for Cooper Flag?

I'm not really sure there's a point to trying to match that salary in the hopes of getting Markannen - literally every other team interested in Markannen (Golden State, San Antonio, etc.) have a better package of players and picks to offer in trade than we can even if we literally hand them every tradable pick we have - and Danny Ainge has been asking for a godfather/Rudy Gobert level deal in exchange for him. I think that trading for Markannen is basically a pipe dream. Unless for some reason Lauri randomly decides that he needs to force his way to Philly, I don't see any viable offer that can be made that can't be easily topped by any number of teams.

I don't think that is entirely true. Golden State hasn't been willing to add Kuminga in any packages, and if they aren't offering him, then whatever they are offering, isn't any better than what the 76ers can offer. (Not that I really want Markennin either way)

But every draft pick will be better, and they have tradable draft picks we don't have.

[ProcessDoctor]

I vote to vet min Lowry, Morris, and Covington plus balloon KJ for a trade later (DFS, G Williams, or Toppin).


Maxey/Lowry/McCain
Martin/Gordon/Edwards
George/Oubre/Council
(Trade)/Covington/Morris
Embiid/Drummond/Bona

[Covi_Marsh]

Is everyone convinced that RoCo's washed? Because when he played, he was still the best of any of the remaining, possible, inexpensive PF backups (by a fairly wide margin).

I'm increasingly worried that the Sixers will get really screwed at the 4, either because PG will have to play there and there'll be major defensive liabilities b/c three of the starting 5 will be below average defenders at their positions, OR because we'll play someone else at the 4 who will suck even worse. Marcus Morris is not a starting-caliber PF on a decent team. Nor is DFS. I can't identify anyone out there, either a FA or someone on a bad team who might be available at the trade deadline, who's above average all around. Really starting to bum me out.

Those of you who feel as if we just need to sign, say, Morris, Lonnie Walker (who I'd love), and Lowry or Bev: how do you see the team dealing with the 4?

Cody Martin our PF. And he played PF for Miami last season albeit they was a play in team lol.

A bunch of wings is cool against Boston.

NYK have Randle but Tobias played him well. If Tobias can do it Paul George can do it. If not, I’d rather have Julius taking shots away from Brunson.

Milwaukee we usually put embiid on him because Lopez just sits behind the 3 point line anyway.

Pacers, Siakim is solid but he ain’t no punisher. No one one there team can guard Maxey or George anyway. It’ll be a shootout.

[ckchen]

Completely agree

Well, this is definitely a top four team in the east. It is still very soft. It desperately needs some tough hombres.

Daryl prefers better shooters. Which is why Dennis Smith has no chance either. Surprised he deals with Oubre, except the the fact that Kelly will shoot 3s and definitely gets layups

Oubre definitely PF here.

Lowry should be number 1 and Bev as back up plan.

Marcus Morris number on big priority.

Didn't they pointedly call him a shooting guard or starting shooting guard in the press release for his signing? I doubt he plays much PF if any.

[Covi_Marsh]

I read somebody say we a top 4 team. Can’t find it to quote but I’m not putting Milwaukee in the same tier with Boston Philly and NY. They returning the same team. Lost their best 3 point shooter. Didn’t replace him. Dame did not look good when Giannis was on the floor with him. Unless Khris Middleton returns to all star form, they may not even be better then Indiana or Orlando

[Ben]

Is everyone convinced that RoCo's washed? Because when he played, he was still the best of any of the remaining, possible, inexpensive PF backups (by a fairly wide margin).

I'm increasingly worried that the Sixers will get really screwed at the 4, either because PG will have to play there and there'll be major defensive liabilities b/c three of the starting 5 will be below average defenders at their positions, OR because we'll play someone else at the 4 who will suck even worse. Marcus Morris is not a starting-caliber PF on a decent team. Nor is DFS. I can't identify anyone out there, either a FA or someone on a bad team who might be available at the trade deadline, who's above average all around. Really starting to bum me out.

Those of you who feel as if we just need to sign, say, Morris, Lonnie Walker (who I'd love), and Lowry or Bev: how do you see the team dealing with the 4?

Cody Martin our PF. And he played PF for Miami last season albeit they was a play in team lol.

A bunch of wings is cool against Boston.

NYK have Randle but Tobias played him well. If Tobias can do it Paul George can do it. If not, I’d rather have Julius taking shots away from Brunson.

Milwaukee we usually put embiid on him because Lopez just sits behind the 3 point line anyway.

Pacers, Siakim is solid but he ain’t no punisher. No one one there team can guard Maxey or George anyway. It’ll be a shootout.

Caleb Martin didn't play PF for Miami last year, at least not any time I can remember or find. In fact, he played guard more often than he played small forward. They threw out a bunch of lineups with three wings, and unless they were playing against small lineups they weren't terribly effective. He might have played a little 4 in 2022-23, but not well at all. (Martin's 6'6" in shoes, has an 8' 5 1/2" standing reach, and a wingspan that's good for a wing and not for a big man.). He could conceivably be a mediocre-to-poor 4, but that would only accentuate my point (since he's not good enough offensively to make up for his defensive shortcomings as a PF).

I mean, the real definition of a 4 for the past 10-15 years has been someone who can guard the opposing team's 4. So if your answer is simply that we'll play three wings when we're playing against teams that also play three wings, I guess that will do, but that doesn't account for all of the time. And if you're a smart opposing coach you look for ways to exploit that situation.

[Arsenal]

Is everyone convinced that RoCo's washed? Because when he played, he was still the best of any of the remaining, possible, inexpensive PF backups (by a fairly wide margin).

I'm increasingly worried that the Sixers will get really screwed at the 4, either because PG will have to play there and there'll be major defensive liabilities b/c three of the starting 5 will be below average defenders at their positions, OR because we'll play someone else at the 4 who will suck even worse. Marcus Morris is not a starting-caliber PF on a decent team. Nor is DFS. I can't identify anyone out there, either a FA or someone on a bad team who might be available at the trade deadline, who's above average all around. Really starting to bum me out.

Those of you who feel as if we just need to sign, say, Morris, Lonnie Walker (who I'd love), and Lowry or Bev: how do you see the team dealing with the 4?

It's a no brainer to sign Cov over Morris or anyone else if Cov is healthy. It just seems doubtful that he is healthy, so people have moved on.

Whether it's Covington, Morris, or someone else, we desperately need a true PF / big wing.

[ProcessDoctor]

Is everyone convinced that RoCo's washed? Because when he played, he was still the best of any of the remaining, possible, inexpensive PF backups (by a fairly wide margin).

I'm increasingly worried that the Sixers will get really screwed at the 4, either because PG will have to play there and there'll be major defensive liabilities b/c three of the starting 5 will be below average defenders at their positions, OR because we'll play someone else at the 4 who will suck even worse. Marcus Morris is not a starting-caliber PF on a decent team. Nor is DFS. I can't identify anyone out there, either a FA or someone on a bad team who might be available at the trade deadline, who's above average all around. Really starting to bum me out.

Those of you who feel as if we just need to sign, say, Morris, Lonnie Walker (who I'd love), and Lowry or Bev: how do you see the team dealing with the 4?

Cody Martin our PF. And he played PF for Miami last season albeit they was a play in team lol.

A bunch of wings is cool against Boston.

NYK have Randle but Tobias played him well. If Tobias can do it Paul George can do it. If not, I’d rather have Julius taking shots away from Brunson.

Milwaukee we usually put embiid on him because Lopez just sits behind the 3 point line anyway.

Pacers, Siakim is solid but he ain’t no punisher. No one one there team can guard Maxey or George anyway. It’ll be a shootout.

I agree we can match PG up against some of those guys, but ideally, we have someone else to take on the tougher defensive assignments. Caleb can cover the perimeter (did a great job against Brunson 2 years ago) and an in-season trade can cover the players you mentioned plus one of the Jays.

[Ben]

Is everyone convinced that RoCo's washed? Because when he played, he was still the best of any of the remaining, possible, inexpensive PF backups (by a fairly wide margin).

I'm increasingly worried that the Sixers will get really screwed at the 4, either because PG will have to play there and there'll be major defensive liabilities b/c three of the starting 5 will be below average defenders at their positions, OR because we'll play someone else at the 4 who will suck even worse. Marcus Morris is not a starting-caliber PF on a decent team. Nor is DFS. I can't identify anyone out there, either a FA or someone on a bad team who might be available at the trade deadline, who's above average all around. Really starting to bum me out.

Those of you who feel as if we just need to sign, say, Morris, Lonnie Walker (who I'd love), and Lowry or Bev: how do you see the team dealing with the 4?

Cody Martin our PF. And he played PF for Miami last season albeit they was a play in team lol.

A bunch of wings is cool against Boston.

NYK have Randle but Tobias played him well. If Tobias can do it Paul George can do it. If not, I’d rather have Julius taking shots away from Brunson.

Milwaukee we usually put embiid on him because Lopez just sits behind the 3 point line anyway.

Pacers, Siakim is solid but he ain’t no punisher. No one one there team can guard Maxey or George anyway. It’ll be a shootout.

I agree we can match PG up against some of those guys, but ideally, we have someone else to take on the tougher defensive assignments. Caleb can cover the perimeter (did a great job against Brunson 2 years ago) and an in-season trade can cover the players you mentioned plus one of the Jays.

In-season trade is my only hope for PF. But I'm not able to identify any likely candidates (good 4s on contracts we could acquire, on teams that have given up on 2025 contention).

[ProcessDoctor]

Cody Martin our PF. And he played PF for Miami last season albeit they was a play in team lol.

A bunch of wings is cool against Boston.

NYK have Randle but Tobias played him well. If Tobias can do it Paul George can do it. If not, I’d rather have Julius taking shots away from Brunson.

Milwaukee we usually put embiid on him because Lopez just sits behind the 3 point line anyway.

Pacers, Siakim is solid but he ain’t no punisher. No one one there team can guard Maxey or George anyway. It’ll be a shootout.

I agree we can match PG up against some of those guys, but ideally, we have someone else to take on the tougher defensive assignments. Caleb can cover the perimeter (did a great job against Brunson 2 years ago) and an in-season trade can cover the players you mentioned plus one of the Jays.

In-season trade is my only hope for PF. But I'm not able to identify any likely candidates (good 4s on contracts we could acquire, on teams that have given up on 2025 contention).

It's a very short list.

I know you're not a DFS fan, but for fair value, I think he's worth looking into.

Grant Williams might be available, but he's talked himself off 2 teams and is surprisingly not that great of a rebounder and takes some questionable shots.

Obi Tobbin would be a dream if Indy was willing to move him, but this would likely be a 3-teamer.

Maybe Morey can remind Portland that they're rebuilding and go after Deni?

Chris Boucher has a lot of good metrics, but has never played more than 24 mpg. Can he do well in an expanded role? Can he defend the likes of Tatum/Giannis?

[LeonJordanJr24]

I agree we can match PG up against some of those guys, but ideally, we have someone else to take on the tougher defensive assignments. Caleb can cover the perimeter (did a great job against Brunson 2 years ago) and an in-season trade can cover the players you mentioned plus one of the Jays.

In-season trade is my only hope for PF. But I'm not able to identify any likely candidates (good 4s on contracts we could acquire, on teams that have given up on 2025 contention).

It's a very short list.

I know you're not a DFS fan, but for fair value, I think he's worth looking into.

Grant Williams might be available, but he's talked himself off 2 teams and is surprisingly not that great of a rebounder and takes some questionable shots.

Obi Tobbin would be a dream if Indy was willing to move him, but this would likely be a 3-teamer.

Maybe Morey can remind Portland that they're rebuilding and go after Deni?

Chris Boucher has a lot of good metrics, but has never played more than 24 mpg. Can he do well in an expanded role? Can he defend the likes of Tatum/Giannis?

Just traded just to do trades...

[Foshan]

What about Precious from New York? Any chance he comes cheap on a price it deal taking the opportunity to get minutes?

[ProcessDoctor]

In-season trade is my only hope for PF. But I'm not able to identify any likely candidates (good 4s on contracts we could acquire, on teams that have given up on 2025 contention).

It's a very short list.

I know you're not a DFS fan, but for fair value, I think he's worth looking into.

Grant Williams might be available, but he's talked himself off 2 teams and is surprisingly not that great of a rebounder and takes some questionable shots.

Obi Tobbin would be a dream if Indy was willing to move him, but this would likely be a 3-teamer.

Maybe Morey can remind Portland that they're rebuilding and go after Deni?

Chris Boucher has a lot of good metrics, but has never played more than 24 mpg. Can he do well in an expanded role? Can he defend the likes of Tatum/Giannis?

Just traded just to do trades...

If you're not mortgaging the future (i.e. 2028 picks and beyond) and are improving then why not? We have already committed to going all in the next 3-4 years.

[Covi_Marsh]

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[Covi_Marsh]

Is everyone convinced that RoCo's washed? Because when he played, he was still the best of any of the remaining, possible, inexpensive PF backups (by a fairly wide margin).

I'm increasingly worried that the Sixers will get really screwed at the 4, either because PG will have to play there and there'll be major defensive liabilities b/c three of the starting 5 will be below average defenders at their positions, OR because we'll play someone else at the 4 who will suck even worse. Marcus Morris is not a starting-caliber PF on a decent team. Nor is DFS. I can't identify anyone out there, either a FA or someone on a bad team who might be available at the trade deadline, who's above average all around. Really starting to bum me out.

Those of you who feel as if we just need to sign, say, Morris, Lonnie Walker (who I'd love), and Lowry or Bev: how do you see the team dealing with the 4?

Cody Martin our PF. And he played PF for Miami last season albeit they was a play in team lol.

A bunch of wings is cool against Boston.

NYK have Randle but Tobias played him well. If Tobias can do it Paul George can do it. If not, I’d rather have Julius taking shots away from Brunson.

Milwaukee we usually put embiid on him because Lopez just sits behind the 3 point line anyway.

Pacers, Siakim is solid but he ain’t no punisher. No one one there team can guard Maxey or George anyway. It’ll be a shootout.

Caleb Martin didn't play PF for Miami last year, at least not any time I can remember or find. In fact, he played guard more often than he played small forward. They threw out a bunch of lineups with three wings, and unless they were playing against small lineups they weren't terribly effective. He might have played a little 4 in 2022-23, but not well at all. (Martin's 6'6" in shoes, has an 8' 5 1/2" standing reach, and a wingspan that's good for a wing and not for a big man.). He could conceivably be a mediocre-to-poor 4, but that would only accentuate my point (since he's not good enough offensively to make up for his defensive shortcomings as a PF).

I mean, the real definition of a 4 for the past 10-15 years has been someone who can guard the opposing team's 4. So if your answer is simply that we'll play three wings when we're playing against teams that also play three wings, I guess that will do, but that doesn't account for all of the time. And if you're a smart opposing coach you look for ways to exploit that situation.

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