Raptors Press Conference Scheduled For Monday July 8th

[ArthurVandelay]

Nope, didn't forget that incident at all. If you decide to read this full article you've posted you'll see the incident I'm referring to:



This was a de facto suspension, a disciplinary action. Again, I'm not blaming Scottie for not knowing the rules or being immature in general. It's the organization that has to be consistent with discipline. If Masai is quick to abandon all that he stood for that was good with the Raptors, why should any media member (or nervous fan) trust what he's saying?

Scare said: I'm pretty sure Siakam got suspended due to an altercation with Nurse,


That incident was far more than serious and disrespectful than Scottie pouting and leaving early.

I see my mistake. You’re stating the Siakam and Barnes incidents are similar when they couldn’t be any further apart…other than the actions were wrong.

Yeah, you jumped in at the wrong point. I made the correct comparison that Siakam and Barnes both left a game early and Siakam was disciplined by being forced to sit out a game while Scottie was not disciplined at all (and according to him, not even made aware of the infraction). Scase assumed I was talking about the Nick Nurse blow-up, which did not end up in a suspension but instead was a hefty fine. I corrected him and then you. Hopefully it eventually sinks in.

Leaving a game early is not a big deal at all and says very little about the player, but the point is that Masai had a culture of accountability in place and this punishment was a clear sign of this. It's yet another example of something Masai used to be credited for that he can no longer lay claim to.

The only thing sinking in is a strong dislike of Masai

The Siakam and Barnes situations don’t deserve to be treated the same because the circumstances around the players were very different. Age, years in league, experience, and salary (max vs rookie scale) all warranted a harsh approach to Siakam.

I would also venture to guess based on Siakam’s bubble performance, his admittance of being in a poor frame of mind, and subsequent blow up with Nurse later in the year that his questionable behaviour wasn’t a one off, but that is speculation on my part.

[ATLTimekeeper]

The only thing sinking in is a strong dislike of Masai

The Siakam and Barnes situations don’t deserve to be treated the same because the circumstances around the players were very different. Age, years in league, experience, and salary (max vs rookie scale) all warranted a harsh approach to Siakam.

I would also venture to guess based on Siakam’s bubble performance, his admittance of being in a poor frame of mind, and subsequent blow up with Nurse later in the year that his questionable behaviour wasn’t a one off, but that is speculation on my part.

Right, you think Scottie should be handled with kid gloves. As does Masai. So why do you strongly dislike Masai for this? Sounds like he handled it as you would have in the same position.

And whether Siakam was overdue for a corrective measure is well worth entertaining, but we also know that Scottie had a small laundry list of questionable behaviour prior to this as well. The primary difference is that the Raptors were losing for the first time under Masai and the fingers were pointing at Siakam. And in this case the Raptors had been losing for some time and they didn't want to draw extra attention to the mistake of the hope of their franchise. The Nurse thing is possibly related. Of note in that article you posted was the reminder that their first covid outbreak was attributed to a coach that didn't follow the mask protocol (could have been Nurse?). I do remember Nurse not knowing that covid impacted conditioning and he was playing Siakam and OG mega minutes and going purple when they were gassed out.

For me, I see a worrisome trend in Masai's leadership, and like some other posters I noticed the same quake in his voice during what was a highly controlled good vibes presser. He said the usual diarrhea, but he didn't sound confident. He needs the W, and he needs Scottie to grow up.

[ArthurVandelay]

The only thing sinking in is a strong dislike of Masai

The Siakam and Barnes situations don’t deserve to be treated the same because the circumstances around the players were very different. Age, years in league, experience, and salary (max vs rookie scale) all warranted a harsh approach to Siakam.

I would also venture to guess based on Siakam’s bubble performance, his admittance of being in a poor frame of mind, and subsequent blow up with Nurse later in the year that his questionable behaviour wasn’t a one off, but that is speculation on my part.

Right, you think Scottie should be handled with kid gloves. As does Masai. So why do you strongly dislike Masai for this? Sounds like he handled it as you would have in the same position.

And whether Siakam was overdue for a corrective measure is well worth entertaining, but we also know that Scottie had a small laundry list of questionable behaviour prior to this as well. The primary difference is that the Raptors were losing for the first time under Masai and the fingers were pointing at Siakam. And in this case the Raptors had been losing for some time and they didn't want to draw extra attention to the mistake of the hope of their franchise. The Nurse thing is possibly related. Of note in that article you posted was the reminder that their first covid outbreak was attributed to a coach that didn't follow the mask protocol (could have been Nurse?). I do remember Nurse not knowing that covid impacted conditioning and he was playing Siakam and OG mega minutes and going purple when they were gassed out.

For me, I see a worrisome trend in Masai's leadership, and like some other posters I noticed the same quake in his voice during what was a highly controlled good vibes presser. He said the usual diarrhea, but he didn't sound confident. He needs the W, and he needs Scottie to grow up.

You’re the one with a strong dislike of Masai. That is apparent. Using Bruce Arthur or Feschuck as some evidence to prove a point…yeesh.

I don’t think Scottie needs kids gloves. I think a 22 year old with the talent to build around who is experiencing the frustrations of learning the business, watching his friends get traded, and a type of losing he likely never experienced before doesn’t need a hammer brought down on him for poorly handling those frustrations. To expect that to happen shows there is little understanding about how relationships work. Now if Scottie messes up with a similar mistake again, yeah absolutely go harsher with the punishment/consequences.

Your takes on this are ridiculous imo. Maybe lay off the Toronto media lol

[NBA Sheady]

I see they're still doing those silly land acknowledgements

Sent from my SM-S918W using RealGM mobile app

[Tor_Raps]

Just my two cents, but I found Masai nauseating during the press conference. From the nervous tone, sweating, and same old repetitive jargon. He didn’t accept enough responsibility for last year (or the previous two years) in my book. I’ve lost faith in his leadership.

Only good thing I got out of that was good for Scottie and IQ.

He is feeling the pressure from ownership for the poor handling of the past 2 years

The poor handling of the past 2 years is why this rebuild is going to take an extra 2 years. Like we just finished a season where we tanked and didn't even keep our own damn pick lol.

[ATLTimekeeper]

You’re the one with a strong dislike of Masai. That is apparent. Using Bruce Arthur or Feschuck as some evidence to prove a point…yeesh.

I used the rationalization the FO gave Bruce Arthur and Dave Feschuck to make my own argument. Does it matter which journalist the FO complains about Fred to? It's just raw information.

I don’t think Scottie needs kids gloves. I think a 22 year old with the talent to build around who is experiencing the frustrations of learning the business, watching his friends get traded, and a type of losing he likely never experienced before doesn’t need a hammer brought down on him for poorly handling those frustrations. To expect that to happen shows there is little understanding about how relationships work. Now if Scottie messes up with a similar mistake again, yeah absolutely go harsher with the punishment/consequences.

Okay, this shows you don't understand what kid gloves means. You cited age and experience. The only thing you now believe is that Scottie is no longer a kid. Get it right for once in this back and forth.

[NBA Sheady]

By 2017-18, Lowry extended again and the two of them were at 56%

That is good to know. Thanks!

[OAKLEY_2]

"We want to win"

"Okay, what's the plan?"

"We will win again"

"Yes, but how?"

"Winning is the only thing that matters

"..."

"Winning"

I love the guy, but clearly, he writes his own material.

[OAKLEY_2]

Just my two cents, but I found Masai nauseating during the press conference. From the nervous tone, sweating, and same old repetitive jargon. He didn’t accept enough responsibility for last year (or the previous two years) in my book. I’ve lost faith in his leadership.

Only good thing I got out of that was good for Scottie and IQ.

He is feeling the pressure from ownership for the poor handling of the past 2 years

The poor handling of the past 2 years is why this rebuild is going to take an extra 2 years. Like we just finished a season where we tanked and didn't even keep our own damn pick lol.

So you mean two years of relocating to an international location without fans had nothing to do with it? And G League was no where to be found? We ARE an outlier in the Amazon Basketball Association. We had had to pull up stakes on the franchise for two years. You want two lost years? There they freakin are. But... they did get us Scottie B. If we blew it up earlier do we have Barnes?

[ArthurVandelay]

You’re the one with a strong dislike of Masai. That is apparent. Using Bruce Arthur or Feschuck as some evidence to prove a point…yeesh.

I used the rationalization the FO gave Bruce Arthur and Dave Feschuck to make my own argument. Does it matter which journalist the FO complains about Fred to? It's just raw information.

I don’t think Scottie needs kids gloves. I think a 22 year old with the talent to build around who is experiencing the frustrations of learning the business, watching his friends get traded, and a type of losing he likely never experienced before doesn’t need a hammer brought down on him for poorly handling those frustrations. To expect that to happen shows there is little understanding about how relationships work. Now if Scottie messes up with a similar mistake again, yeah absolutely go harsher with the punishment/consequences.

Okay, this shows you don't understand what kid gloves means. You cited age and experience. The only thing you now believe is that Scottie is no longer a kid. Get it right for once in this back and forth.

Your hate shades are dark, man.

You’re saying the methods of dealing with a similar situation in different seasons should be the same for a 26/27 year old max salary player, all-star, All-NBA, NBA champion and a 22 year old on a rookie deal. Fair isn’t always equal and equal isn’t always fair. If you call that kids gloves, so be it. I call it rational thinking and rightfully having different expectations, and eventual consequence(s), based on a person’s experience, history, and knowledge. If I have a 7 year old marking up the walls I’m going to respond quite a bit differently than my 2 year old, not because of kids gloves, but because of expectations and the fact the 7 year old already knows better.

But what I really find interesting is AFTER the early exit and hold out is when Pascal had his verbal attack on Nurse that both Scase and I referred to. You really think the first incident of friction with Siakam was the early exit? His admitted mental health struggles and inappropriate behaviours show there was a lot more going on than Barnes situation as a frustrated 3rd year player.

This logic is something I’d expect from Toronto media who clearly have an agenda vs Scottie.

[ATLTimekeeper]

You’re the one with a strong dislike of Masai. That is apparent. Using Bruce Arthur or Feschuck as some evidence to prove a point…yeesh.

I used the rationalization the FO gave Bruce Arthur and Dave Feschuck to make my own argument. Does it matter which journalist the FO complains about Fred to? It's just raw information.

I don’t think Scottie needs kids gloves. I think a 22 year old with the talent to build around who is experiencing the frustrations of learning the business, watching his friends get traded, and a type of losing he likely never experienced before doesn’t need a hammer brought down on him for poorly handling those frustrations. To expect that to happen shows there is little understanding about how relationships work. Now if Scottie messes up with a similar mistake again, yeah absolutely go harsher with the punishment/consequences.

Okay, this shows you don't understand what kid gloves means. You cited age and experience. The only thing you now believe is that Scottie is no longer a kid. Get it right for once in this back and forth.

Your hate shades are dark, man.

You’re saying the methods of dealing with a similar situation in different seasons should be the same for a 26/27 year old max salary player, all-star, All-NBA, NBA champion and a 22 year old on a rookie deal. Fair isn’t always equal and equal isn’t always fair. If you call that kids gloves, so be it. I call it rational thinking and rightfully having different expectations, and eventual consequence(s), based on a person’s experience, history, and knowledge. If I have a 7 year old marking up the walls I’m going to respond quite a bit differently than my 2 year old, not because of kids gloves, but because of expectations and the fact the 7 year old already knows better.

But what I really find interesting is AFTER the early exit and hold out is when Pascal had his verbal attack on Nurse that both Scase and I referred to. You really think the first incident of friction with Siakam was the early exit? His admitted mental health struggles and inappropriate behaviours show there was a lot more going on than Barnes situation as a frustrated 3rd year player.

This is something I’d expect from Toronto media who clearly have an agenda vs Scottie.

I don't think comparing Scottie to a two year old does him any favours, yikes. This is indeed what kid gloves means.

I think that Siakam probably had friction before the incident, and we know for a fact Scottie had friction with the organization before his. Masai got in his face, and Thad Young got in his face.

[ArthurVandelay]

I used the rationalization the FO gave Bruce Arthur and Dave Feschuck to make my own argument. Does it matter which journalist the FO complains about Fred to? It's just raw information.



Okay, this shows you don't understand what kid gloves means. You cited age and experience. The only thing you now believe is that Scottie is no longer a kid. Get it right for once in this back and forth.

Your hate shades are dark, man.

You’re saying the methods of dealing with a similar situation in different seasons should be the same for a 26/27 year old max salary player, all-star, All-NBA, NBA champion and a 22 year old on a rookie deal. Fair isn’t always equal and equal isn’t always fair. If you call that kids gloves, so be it. I call it rational thinking and rightfully having different expectations, and eventual consequence(s), based on a person’s experience, history, and knowledge. If I have a 7 year old marking up the walls I’m going to respond quite a bit differently than my 2 year old, not because of kids gloves, but because of expectations and the fact the 7 year old already knows better.

But what I really find interesting is AFTER the early exit and hold out is when Pascal had his verbal attack on Nurse that both Scase and I referred to. You really think the first incident of friction with Siakam was the early exit? His admitted mental health struggles and inappropriate behaviours show there was a lot more going on than Barnes situation as a frustrated 3rd year player.

This is something I’d expect from Toronto media who clearly have an agenda vs Scottie.

I don't think comparing Scottie to a two year old does him any favours, yikes. This is indeed what kid gloves means.

I think that Siakam probably had friction before the incident, and we know for a fact Scottie had friction with the organization before his. Masai got in his face, and Thad Young got in his face.

So were they wearing kid gloves when they got in his face?

Did they hold Scottie accountable or not?

There is no consistency or logic in your argument because there is clearly a personal dislike of Scottie.

[Tha Cynic]

Your hate shades are dark, man.

You’re saying the methods of dealing with a similar situation in different seasons should be the same for a 26/27 year old max salary player, all-star, All-NBA, NBA champion and a 22 year old on a rookie deal. Fair isn’t always equal and equal isn’t always fair. If you call that kids gloves, so be it. I call it rational thinking and rightfully having different expectations, and eventual consequence(s), based on a person’s experience, history, and knowledge. If I have a 7 year old marking up the walls I’m going to respond quite a bit differently than my 2 year old, not because of kids gloves, but because of expectations and the fact the 7 year old already knows better.

But what I really find interesting is AFTER the early exit and hold out is when Pascal had his verbal attack on Nurse that both Scase and I referred to. You really think the first incident of friction with Siakam was the early exit? His admitted mental health struggles and inappropriate behaviours show there was a lot more going on than Barnes situation as a frustrated 3rd year player.

This is something I’d expect from Toronto media who clearly have an agenda vs Scottie.

I don't think comparing Scottie to a two year old does him any favours, yikes. This is indeed what kid gloves means.

I think that Siakam probably had friction before the incident, and we know for a fact Scottie had friction with the organization before his. Masai got in his face, and Thad Young got in his face.

So were they wearing kid gloves when they got in his face?

Did they hold Scottie accountable or not?

There is no consistency or logic in your argument because there is clearly a personal dislike of Scottie.

The guy just took your point about a 2 year old and 7 year old and pretended you were being literal with the ages and ignored your entire point. This poster is known to never change opinions and has a pretty deep-rooted hatred for Masai and Barnes. He's not having a genuine conversation with you lol. Not unlike some very familiar media folk.

If you look at the way he's comparing a 23 year old to veterans in their late 20s (two veterans who actually failed as leaders I might add when they actually became that later in their careers), it's pretty comical. It's no coincidence that the teams chemistry went to **** at the same time they took over the team as leaders. Also he's always talking about Barnes being beaten by Luka and not recovering on (a play that happens all the time in the NBA). The other is old man Thad Young thinking this is the boomers' time and you can just walk up to a young kid in his face and not have him react. There Thad Young needs to understand that type of **** doesn't work with today's kids especially when Barnes was having a chat with GTJ after GTJ and FVV had an altercation.

I highly doubt Masai made those comments about selfishness for no reason about his veterans Van Fleet and Siakam. It's not in his best interest to do that unless he has actual issues with said players. He has more to lose than the players do with how he talks about his players. It's also in the best interest of shewed basketball players to send gifts to media folk and give them their times of day.

There's a lot going on here including personal biases due to potential affiliation.

[Tha Cynic]

I'm pretty sure Siakam got suspended due to an altercation with Nurse, but my memory is fuzzy on it. Where exactly did management blame Fred for not taking Scottie out? Lastly, Masai has publicly called Scottie out on his conditioning and so on, it's what gave all the fuel to people claiming he was lazy etc.

Yes, your memory is fuzzy. Siakam was suspended for leaving the bench. Same thing Scottie did this year. Darko said he talked to Scottie about it and Scottie said no one talked to him

There's a new article series on what's wrong with Toronto sports by Bruce Arthur and Dave Feschuk. You can read it all, but the Raptors specific one has a line about how sources in the organization blame Fred for not taking Scottie out more.

Masai got in Scottie's face after some poor play in New York. No problems there. That's actually in line with the kind of culture of accountability they had built over the years. Scottie was actually the one that said he needed to work on his conditioning. You might be confusing a few story lines.

He's not getting the kid glove treatment, he's getting the talented rookie treatment. The media has been trashing the kid since day one, this is not in response to Masai or the team, some media members have had it out for him immediately and got even more pissy because their relationship with FVV.

Show me some day 1 criticisms of Scottie. But to the 'talented rookie treatment,' we're talking about something that happened last season. This media vendetta argument is weird. Fred's been gone for a solid year. No one went after Kawhi even though they loved DeMar. It's not a thing. The media loves good quotes, and they would love to talk with a ROY and face of the franchise. They're incentivized to want to say nice things about him. You admit he's immature and I would like you to consider if that immaturity may have contributed to this lousy coverage he's getting.

Sounds like I mixed up the conditioning bit, but I could've sworn Scottie only said that stuff after the Masai comments. Either way, point still stands that Masai had no issues calling him out publicly, which isn't treating him with kid gloves.

As for the criticisms, I mean literally anything Smith or Lewenberg said in the entire 22-23 season. It was just endless with them, Scottie had a bad game, dump on him, he has a good game, dump on him. The most positive thing that Lewenberg did that whole season was just post his statlines when he had good games, but when they were bad games, it was statline + criticism.

And for Day 1 criticisms? Feb 2022, the 43rd game of his entire NBA career, and a snide little tweet.

Read on Twitter

Raptors lose by 4 points to the Mavs while Luka blows up for 41, but the loss is on Scottie in his 35th career game.

A glaring defensive lapse in the final minute led to a Luka Doncic three-pointer that led the Dallas Mavericks to a 102-98 win over Toronto in another tremendous effort by the Raptors that just fell short.

Raptors rookie Scottie Barnes somehow did not stay attached to Doncic on a critical possession with 61 seconds left and Doncic completed a 41-point night with a three-point dagger.

Or how about we go with an article about his first ever NBA game.

Barnes did not have a glittering debut but neither did a young team touted as one that would use its length, athleticism and versatility to carry it.

Whether he and the Raptors got caught up in the emotion and excitement of the night is impossible to say for sure but the staff tried to fill minds with basketball-specific instructions so the sense of the moment wouldn’t be overwhelming.

Barnes earned his starting role in part because of a solid offensive pre-season where he led the Raptors in assists (5.6 per game) and minutes (26.3 per game) while shooting 47 per cent from the floor.

That didn’t translate into a game that mattered for him or the rest of the team.

That's about as Day 1 as it gets. I'm all for fair and valid criticism of a player, but for the love of god, it was the kids DEBUT game and he's commenting on him getting caught up in emotion? Like **** yeah, it's an NBA debut, he's 20 years old.

Acting like the first game of the season was some massive important game and his pre-season play didn't translate? Like jesus christ, give him a second.

Doug has been beating that drum literally since day one, and it has only gotten worse and louder since.

I mean we are going into detail here unnecessarily about who got punished for what when the point is that Siakam has had immature outbursts including at the coach while in his late 20s. Van Fleet clearly had problems getting along with numerous players. Lowry used to have issues with coaches.

Remember when we used to see this routinely:

Watch on YouTube

Barnes is young and has immature moments. None of this is abnormal.

A team moving on from a group of older players who clearly were keeping this in a treadmill and using the best young player on the team who has a rookie of the year and an all star appearance by season 3 is also very normal. What are these posters even mad about?

Did we want to keep Siakam and keep the treadmill going? We shouldn't be moving towards youth and putting confidence around our better young players?


None of this is abnormal.

[Scase]

Yes, your memory is fuzzy. Siakam was suspended for leaving the bench. Same thing Scottie did this year. Darko said he talked to Scottie about it and Scottie said no one talked to him

There's a new article series on what's wrong with Toronto sports by Bruce Arthur and Dave Feschuk. You can read it all, but the Raptors specific one has a line about how sources in the organization blame Fred for not taking Scottie out more.

Masai got in Scottie's face after some poor play in New York. No problems there. That's actually in line with the kind of culture of accountability they had built over the years. Scottie was actually the one that said he needed to work on his conditioning. You might be confusing a few story lines.



Show me some day 1 criticisms of Scottie. But to the 'talented rookie treatment,' we're talking about something that happened last season. This media vendetta argument is weird. Fred's been gone for a solid year. No one went after Kawhi even though they loved DeMar. It's not a thing. The media loves good quotes, and they would love to talk with a ROY and face of the franchise. They're incentivized to want to say nice things about him. You admit he's immature and I would like you to consider if that immaturity may have contributed to this lousy coverage he's getting.

Sounds like I mixed up the conditioning bit, but I could've sworn Scottie only said that stuff after the Masai comments. Either way, point still stands that Masai had no issues calling him out publicly, which isn't treating him with kid gloves.

As for the criticisms, I mean literally anything Smith or Lewenberg said in the entire 22-23 season. It was just endless with them, Scottie had a bad game, dump on him, he has a good game, dump on him. The most positive thing that Lewenberg did that whole season was just post his statlines when he had good games, but when they were bad games, it was statline + criticism.

And for Day 1 criticisms? Feb 2022, the 43rd game of his entire NBA career, and a snide little tweet.

Read on Twitter

Raptors lose by 4 points to the Mavs while Luka blows up for 41, but the loss is on Scottie in his 35th career game.

A glaring defensive lapse in the final minute led to a Luka Doncic three-pointer that led the Dallas Mavericks to a 102-98 win over Toronto in another tremendous effort by the Raptors that just fell short.

Raptors rookie Scottie Barnes somehow did not stay attached to Doncic on a critical possession with 61 seconds left and Doncic completed a 41-point night with a three-point dagger.

Or how about we go with an article about his first ever NBA game.

Barnes did not have a glittering debut but neither did a young team touted as one that would use its length, athleticism and versatility to carry it.

Whether he and the Raptors got caught up in the emotion and excitement of the night is impossible to say for sure but the staff tried to fill minds with basketball-specific instructions so the sense of the moment wouldn’t be overwhelming.

Barnes earned his starting role in part because of a solid offensive pre-season where he led the Raptors in assists (5.6 per game) and minutes (26.3 per game) while shooting 47 per cent from the floor.

That didn’t translate into a game that mattered for him or the rest of the team.

That's about as Day 1 as it gets. I'm all for fair and valid criticism of a player, but for the love of god, it was the kids DEBUT game and he's commenting on him getting caught up in emotion? Like **** yeah, it's an NBA debut, he's 20 years old.

Acting like the first game of the season was some massive important game and his pre-season play didn't translate? Like jesus christ, give him a second.

Doug has been beating that drum literally since day one, and it has only gotten worse and louder since.

I mean we are going into detail here unnecessarily about who got punished for what when the point is that Siakam has had immature outbursts including at the coach while in his late 20s. Van Fleet clearly had problems getting along with numerous players. Lowry used to have issues with coaches.

Remember when we used to see this routinely:

Watch on YouTube

Barnes is young and has immature moments. None of this is abnormal.

A team moving on from a group of older players who clearly were keeping this in a treadmill and using the best young player on the team who has a rookie of the year and an all star appearance by season 3 is also very normal. What are these posters even mad about?

Did we want to keep Siakam and keep the treadmill going? We shouldn't be moving towards youth and putting confidence around our better young players?


None of this is abnormal.

That's some bang up veteran defence being showcased there

But yeah, I don't understand how the concept of a 22 year old and someone in their late 20's who has been doing this for multiple years more, being treated differently is some mind shattering concept.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Your hate shades are dark, man.

You’re saying the methods of dealing with a similar situation in different seasons should be the same for a 26/27 year old max salary player, all-star, All-NBA, NBA champion and a 22 year old on a rookie deal. Fair isn’t always equal and equal isn’t always fair. If you call that kids gloves, so be it. I call it rational thinking and rightfully having different expectations, and eventual consequence(s), based on a person’s experience, history, and knowledge. If I have a 7 year old marking up the walls I’m going to respond quite a bit differently than my 2 year old, not because of kids gloves, but because of expectations and the fact the 7 year old already knows better.

But what I really find interesting is AFTER the early exit and hold out is when Pascal had his verbal attack on Nurse that both Scase and I referred to. You really think the first incident of friction with Siakam was the early exit? His admitted mental health struggles and inappropriate behaviours show there was a lot more going on than Barnes situation as a frustrated 3rd year player.

This is something I’d expect from Toronto media who clearly have an agenda vs Scottie.

I don't think comparing Scottie to a two year old does him any favours, yikes. This is indeed what kid gloves means.

I think that Siakam probably had friction before the incident, and we know for a fact Scottie had friction with the organization before his. Masai got in his face, and Thad Young got in his face.

So were they wearing kid gloves when they got in his face?

Did they hold Scottie accountable or not?

There is no consistency or logic in your argument because there is clearly a personal dislike of Scottie.

When Masai got in his face? I don't know if he held him accountable through a disciplinary measure or if he just expressed frustration, like you might with your toddler in that example. The broader point was about accountability and team culture, and how Masai may have abandoned it. Thad Young isn't management, so what does it matter if he lost his mind? Were they both suspended for the altercation, like Serge Ibaka was? I don't remember, but I don't recall, either. That would be a disciplinary measure. Hope that clears up the logic, and I hope you can see the irony that you seem to be calling me out for inconsistent logic while ignoring your own.

I don't dislike Scottie and, as I said, I don't hold it against him for being immature. It's the responsibility of management to compensate for all the things young players lack as they develop.

[ArthurVandelay]

I don't think comparing Scottie to a two year old does him any favours, yikes. This is indeed what kid gloves means.

I think that Siakam probably had friction before the incident, and we know for a fact Scottie had friction with the organization before his. Masai got in his face, and Thad Young got in his face.

So were they wearing kid gloves when they got in his face?

Did they hold Scottie accountable or not?

There is no consistency or logic in your argument because there is clearly a personal dislike of Scottie.

When Masai got in his face? I don't know if he held him accountable through a disciplinary measure or if he just expressed frustration, like you might with your toddler in that example. The broader point was about accountability and team culture, and how Masai may have abandoned it. Thad Young isn't management, so what does it matter if he lost his mind? Were they both suspended for the altercation, like Serge Ibaka was? I don't remember, but I don't recall, either. That would be a disciplinary measure. Hope that clears up the logic, and I hope you can see the irony that you seem to be calling me out for inconsistent logic while ignoring your own.

I don't dislike Scottie and, as I said, I don't hold it against him for being immature. It's the responsibility of management to compensate for all the things young players lack as they develop.

At this point I’m just trying to figure out which Raptor media you are.

[ATLTimekeeper]

So were they wearing kid gloves when they got in his face?

Did they hold Scottie accountable or not?

There is no consistency or logic in your argument because there is clearly a personal dislike of Scottie.

When Masai got in his face? I don't know if he held him accountable through a disciplinary measure or if he just expressed frustration, like you might with your toddler in that example. The broader point was about accountability and team culture, and how Masai may have abandoned it. Thad Young isn't management, so what does it matter if he lost his mind? Were they both suspended for the altercation, like Serge Ibaka was? I don't remember, but I don't recall, either. That would be a disciplinary measure. Hope that clears up the logic, and I hope you can see the irony that you seem to be calling me out for inconsistent logic while ignoring your own.

I don't dislike Scottie and, as I said, I don't hold it against him for being immature. It's the responsibility of management to compensate for all the things young players lack as they develop.

At this point I’m just trying to figure out which Raptor media you are.

If you don't want to talk basketball then maybe stop engaging. I made my points.

[SpezNc]

I used the rationalization the FO gave Bruce Arthur and Dave Feschuck to make my own argument. Does it matter which journalist the FO complains about Fred to? It's just raw information.



Okay, this shows you don't understand what kid gloves means. You cited age and experience. The only thing you now believe is that Scottie is no longer a kid. Get it right for once in this back and forth.

Your hate shades are dark, man.

You’re saying the methods of dealing with a similar situation in different seasons should be the same for a 26/27 year old max salary player, all-star, All-NBA, NBA champion and a 22 year old on a rookie deal. Fair isn’t always equal and equal isn’t always fair. If you call that kids gloves, so be it. I call it rational thinking and rightfully having different expectations, and eventual consequence(s), based on a person’s experience, history, and knowledge. If I have a 7 year old marking up the walls I’m going to respond quite a bit differently than my 2 year old, not because of kids gloves, but because of expectations and the fact the 7 year old already knows better.

But what I really find interesting is AFTER the early exit and hold out is when Pascal had his verbal attack on Nurse that both Scase and I referred to. You really think the first incident of friction with Siakam was the early exit? His admitted mental health struggles and inappropriate behaviours show there was a lot more going on than Barnes situation as a frustrated 3rd year player.

This is something I’d expect from Toronto media who clearly have an agenda vs Scottie.

I don't think comparing Scottie to a two year old does him any favours, yikes. This is indeed what kid gloves means.

I think that Siakam probably had friction before the incident, and we know for a fact Scottie had friction with the organization before his. Masai got in his face, and Thad Young got in his face.

Masai himself said that young guys are like puppies .

Also the 2 years old versus 7 years was just an image to put in context the two situations

Nobody is comparing Barnes to a 2 years old

Also it’s possible that the organization responds differently with Barnes compare to Siakam because they’ve learned as well.

Maybe they know they were to harsh overall with Siakam and eventually end up hurting their relationship.

Stuff are black and white and they is situation or individual where you need the hammer and others where you have nothing to gain by pulling the hammer.