[Charania]: Okogie Re-Signs In Phoenix (2/$16M)

[Colbinii]

Big question is "who can they acquire with their lack of assets who is making less than eight million this season?"

If there is a valid answer to that, then this is a fine signing. Happy for Okogie that he got a payday!

I’m not sure there is a valid answer. I took a peek at their remaining picks to see if it was as bad as I remember, and they’ve traded every 1st or pickswapped it through 2030, and they’ve traded every 2nd as well. They have an incoming 2025 2nd from BOS, but it’s top 45 protected, so little value there. This has to be a mechanism to attach their 2031 1st. If not, Okogie on an $8 mil deal is an overpay, so they can only trade it to eat bad future money (under $8 mil, since they can’t aggregate), and adding longterm bad contracts, even cheap ones, seems like a painful move for the expensive Suns.

Suns have 3 good 2nds (two from Denver I think 31/29 and suns 31), + their 31 1st.

Those are not good 2nds. Good 2nds were Portlands this year, ect.

[7r5ur]

Big question is "who can they acquire with their lack of assets who is making less than eight million this season?"

If there is a valid answer to that, then this is a fine signing. Happy for Okogie that he got a payday!

I’m not sure there is a valid answer. I took a peek at their remaining picks to see if it was as bad as I remember, and they’ve traded every 1st or pickswapped it through 2030, and they’ve traded every 2nd as well. They have an incoming 2025 2nd from BOS, but it’s top 45 protected, so little value there. This has to be a mechanism to attach their 2031 1st. If not, Okogie on an $8 mil deal is an overpay, so they can only trade it to eat bad future money (under $8 mil, since they can’t aggregate), and adding longterm bad contracts, even cheap ones, seems like a painful move for the expensive Suns.

Suns have 3 good 2nds (two from Denver I think 31/29 and suns 31), + their 31 1st.

The question is which $8M player would you give that 1st for? The 2nds alone aren't going to return anything remotely worth the tax cost involved with signing Okogie to this deal.

[Crives]

I’m not sure there is a valid answer. I took a peek at their remaining picks to see if it was as bad as I remember, and they’ve traded every 1st or pickswapped it through 2030, and they’ve traded every 2nd as well. They have an incoming 2025 2nd from BOS, but it’s top 45 protected, so little value there. This has to be a mechanism to attach their 2031 1st. If not, Okogie on an $8 mil deal is an overpay, so they can only trade it to eat bad future money (under $8 mil, since they can’t aggregate), and adding longterm bad contracts, even cheap ones, seems like a painful move for the expensive Suns.

Suns have 3 good 2nds (two from Denver I think 31/29 and suns 31), + their 31 1st.

Those are not good 2nds. Good 2nds were Portlands this year, ect.

True. They are not garbage/ fake 2nds though. Jokic may be retired by the time those 2nds hit and the suns could be a mess.

[Scoot McGroot]

As a fan of a team that is a net luxury tax receiver, I’m ecstatic to see this deal.

To be fair, Phoenix doesn’t have many other options.

[Devilanche]

As a fan of a team that is a net luxury tax receiver, I’m ecstatic to see this deal.

To be fair, Phoenix doesn’t have many other options.

Not paying that much luxury tax is always the default option.

So kinda impressed they are paying this much.

[Scoot McGroot]

As a fan of a team that is a net luxury tax receiver, I’m ecstatic to see this deal.

To be fair, Phoenix doesn’t have many other options.

Not paying that much luxury tax is always the default option.

So kinda impressed they are paying this much.

Yeah. But that choice also requires they accept the Clippers like “languish into nothing and still have no means to fill their major holes”. 2nd apron life is somewhat fine if you keep guys and spend endlessly.

[Devilanche]

Yea, taking from ownership pockets to maintain some flexibility come trade deadline.

[In-N-Out 247]

Looking at the luxury tax implications of this deal made me realize that the 24/25 luxury tax brackets may have changed. Could not find anything reliable online that shows the actual brackets - anybody know what they are for this year? Thinking it's not just every $5M anymore.

Found this website when searching, but not sure that it is correct (as an example it has the Celtics & Suns as repeaters for 24/25 and I am pretty sure they are not)

https://www.salaryswish.com/luxury-tax

[Scoot McGroot]

Looking at the luxury tax implications of this deal made me realize that the 24/25 luxury tax brackets may have changed. Could not find anything reliable online that shows the actual brackets - anybody know what they are for this year? Thinking it's not just every $5M anymore.

Found this website when searching, but not sure that it is correct (as an example it has the Celtics & Suns as repeaters for 24/25 and I am pretty sure they are not)

https://www.salaryswish.com/luxury-tax

This will be Boston’s 3rd straight year in a row in the tax, so they will be repeaters.

The drop in tax penalties you are thinking of come next year where the first $10m of luxury tax brackets (non-repeater) drop to 1-1 and 1.25-1, but the repeater brackets all get more punitive.

[In-N-Out 247]

Looking at the luxury tax implications of this deal made me realize that the 24/25 luxury tax brackets may have changed. Could not find anything reliable online that shows the actual brackets - anybody know what they are for this year? Thinking it's not just every $5M anymore.

Found this website when searching, but not sure that it is correct (as an example it has the Celtics & Suns as repeaters for 24/25 and I am pretty sure they are not)

https://www.salaryswish.com/luxury-tax

This will be Boston’s 3rd straight year in a row in the tax, so they will be repeaters.

The drop in tax penalties you are thinking of come next year where the first $10m of luxury tax brackets (non-repeater) drop to 1-1 and 1.25-1, but the repeater brackets all get more punitive.

Ok interesting, then it seems that the luxury tax amounts being quoted for the Suns are not correct. This will be their 3rd consecutive year in the tax so they'll be repeaters as well. Since they are $53M+ over the tax they'll be looking at a tax bill in the $275M range. Which makes their salary costs about $500M - yikes.

So it looks like the repeater teams for 24/25 are: Celtics, Nuggets, Warriors, Clippers, Lakers, Bucks & Suns.

On the Lux tax brackets and rate change. I did see that they are dropping the rates at the 1st couple of increments, but then increasing them for the higher increments. I also saw something about changing the brackets based on the increases in the cap, but I don't know how that is supposed to work.

On that SalarySwish website I found they show different brackets for 24/25 (check out the 3rd bracket - it's 10M-16M). Not sure if that is accurate though.

[wolves_89]

So Okogie improves his 3 pt shot and becomes great contract, or gets shipped off as an expiring with picks

Six years ago I dreamed about how valuable Okogie could be if he could become an even average 3pt shooter. It's still true today, but the likelihood of it happening is almost zero at this point.

[In-N-Out 247]

Looking at the luxury tax implications of this deal made me realize that the 24/25 luxury tax brackets may have changed. Could not find anything reliable online that shows the actual brackets - anybody know what they are for this year? Thinking it's not just every $5M anymore.

Found this website when searching, but not sure that it is correct (as an example it has the Celtics & Suns as repeaters for 24/25 and I am pretty sure they are not)

https://www.salaryswish.com/luxury-tax

This will be Boston’s 3rd straight year in a row in the tax, so they will be repeaters.

The drop in tax penalties you are thinking of come next year where the first $10m of luxury tax brackets (non-repeater) drop to 1-1 and 1.25-1, but the repeater brackets all get more punitive.

Ok interesting, then it seems that the luxury tax amounts being quoted for the Suns are not correct. This will be their 3rd consecutive year in the tax so they'll be repeaters as well. Since they are $53M+ over the tax they'll be looking at a tax bill in the $275M range. Which makes their salary costs about $500M - yikes.

So it looks like the repeater teams for 24/25 are: Celtics, Nuggets, Warriors, Clippers, Lakers, Bucks & Suns.

On the Lux tax brackets and rate change. I did see that they are dropping the rates at the 1st couple of increments, but then increasing them for the higher increments. I also saw something about changing the brackets based on the increases in the cap, but I don't know how that is supposed to work.

On that SalarySwish website I found they show different brackets for 24/25 (check out the 3rd bracket - it's 10M-16M). Not sure if that is accurate though.

Still trying to figure this out.....Did a bit more digging and found this quote in Larry Coon's Salary Cap FAQs:

Teams pay an incremental tax rate based on their team salary as of the team's last regular season game, and whether the team is a "repeat offender," i.e., whether they were also taxpayers in at least three of the four previous seasons (not including the most recent season):

I think that bolded part means that the 24/25 season will not factor into the repeater decision for 24/25, It would be seasons 20/21 through 23/24. So if that is the case then the repeater teams are: Warriors, Clippers, Nets, Lakers & Bucks. Celtics and Suns are not repeater teams. And that lines up a little better with the reported calculations, although what I am calculating is slightly different.

As an example for Phoenix, Spotrac has them $53,588,822 over the tax line. Based on the table I show that to be $219,022,049 in luxury tax. Maybe there are other factors that I am not considering (Spotrac says their Luxury Tax is $214,237,523)

[BK_2020]

No one really thinks Okogie is just a solid role player who contributes on both ends? He was good for 16 mpg last season and 18 mpg the season before. That's a solid rotation player.

[jredsaz]

I’m not sure there is a valid answer. I took a peek at their remaining picks to see if it was as bad as I remember, and they’ve traded every 1st or pickswapped it through 2030, and they’ve traded every 2nd as well. They have an incoming 2025 2nd from BOS, but it’s top 45 protected, so little value there. This has to be a mechanism to attach their 2031 1st. If not, Okogie on an $8 mil deal is an overpay, so they can only trade it to eat bad future money (under $8 mil, since they can’t aggregate), and adding longterm bad contracts, even cheap ones, seems like a painful move for the expensive Suns.

Suns have 3 good 2nds (two from Denver I think 31/29 and suns 31), + their 31 1st.

The question is which $8M player would you give that 1st for? The 2nds alone aren't going to return anything remotely worth the tax cost involved with signing Okogie to this deal.

I don’t think the first needs to be attached to Okogie to make the deal worth the tax. Maybe it’s attached to Nurk for a player and then Okogie and a second are turned into a rotation center on a longer term deal. It’s about having options while operating about the second apron.

I will say again tho, I think Fontecchio will be a target that could include that future first if some less valuable draft capital comes back with him.

[wolves_89]

No one really thinks Okogie is just a solid role player who contributes on both ends? He was good for 16 mpg last season and 18 mpg the season before. That's a solid rotation player.

I'm skeptical that Okogie has enough offensive ability to force the opposing team to guard him. In Minnesota he routinely got played off the court when the defense completely ignored him and he couldn't make a wide open shot. I haven't seen anything that makes me believe he has gotten significantly better since then.

[shagadelic45]

okogie or whomever they could trade him for ...still isn't going to move the needle and be a game changer for phoenix......spending $40+ million (with tax) for him is ridiculous

[K_chile22]

No one really thinks Okogie is just a solid role player who contributes on both ends? He was good for 16 mpg last season and 18 mpg the season before. That's a solid rotation player.

Completely unplayable in the playoffs. 16 minutes a night on the thinnest team in the league does not make someone better than a minimum guy