The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2

[Saberestar]

What's the chances of NO ONE trading for Okogie at 8M a year?


I think Suns are gambling and hoping for a couple of aces dealt their way.

It's a non-zero chance but who cares. It's a "trump card" of sorts that you either use it or lose it. Ishbia said F it and used it, added another $47m to the tax bill JUST to give us this flexibility. Will it definitely pay off? No but I applaud an owner willing to do whatever it is in their power just to increase the chances of improving on the edges.

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Ishbia is doing everything in his power to put a great team on the court. I love it. On the other hand the Nuggets has lost Bruce Brown and KCP because their owner wanted a cheaper roster.

[sunsbg]

Wish Suns had this owner 15-20 years ago. Sadly, with a cheap and spending owners chance of winning a title stay the same.

[dremill24]

So who the heck is making 8 mill or less, that could be had for an expiring and a couple of seconds (or...gulp.. a 2031 unprotected), and is actually any good to help us? Legit starting PG, legit starting big wing, best bench PF/C who is almost capable of starting?

Nobody thats changing your life.

Flawed as the initial premise may be, they believe their stars are enough to contend, so they're just looking for role players on the margins to find the right alchemy.

[Fo-Real]

Seeing the Suns pay 420M for a mediocre looking team is making sick actually.

NBA players getting 60M a year also makes me sick. And soon sicker with 80M a year likely.

But back to the Suns....it just looks like they're hoping to get lucky some team is going to help them.

Not my money.

[BobbieL]

Spoiler:

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I mean I get why they did it! To create another potential trade asset in that specific salary range, But who are the realistic targets under our "dollar for dollar 2nd apron restrictions now??

I think they are overthinking too much trying to outsmart the system, but at the end this is an overpaid, it's a tradable piece, but is it good trade asset that could help down the road? I highly doubt it.

$428M is wild, that's the kind of money you would pay for a championship team, this team aint it, far from it

I'll wait for the trade deadline till reserving judgment on these deals, but it feels to me like it would been smarter to give that money on top of Royce's deal and make this a two year signing.

E.g. Jarred Allen makes 20 mil a year, why not give royce 20 mil on a shorter deal so that you a player you can combine with a pick and match the salary of a difference maker rather than spreading practically the same money across him and Okogie?

Again, I'll need to see the rest of the moves play out this year. Who knows, maybe all of these signings are part of a masterplan far too sophisticated for the feeble mind of Mr Puddles to comprehend.

Now this above would have been out of the box thinking of truly giving a player a salary that you can match!

The problem is the Suns cannot combo contracts so getting a player for 8m - going to be hard to find a match
Its not my money but does Okogie make the team that much better? Not sure he does

[darealjuice]

It's very "Suns" that we finally got an owner willing to spend a fortune on trying to win a championship right when the NBA decided that to punish teams for spending money. $400M on a team that's probably isn't even considered a real contender.

Hopefully we're able to turn Okogie's contract into something more valuable long-term. I think at this point it's clear he's an end of rotation player at best.

[RaisingArizona]

It's very "Suns" that we finally got an owner willing to spend a fortune on trying to win a championship right when the NBA decided that to punish teams for spending money. $400M on a team that's probably isn't even considered a real contender.

Hopefully we're able to turn Okogie's contract into something more valuable long-term. I think at this point it's clear he's an end of rotation player at best.

Like everything AZ sports, 10-20 years too late.

[RaisingArizona]

Not a fan of 4/15 guys not being able to hit a jumper, but we'll see. Sounds like there is at least a plan to upgrade at the deadline with this contract.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Not a fan of 4/15 guys not being able to hit a jumper, but we'll see. Sounds like there is at least a plan to upgrade at the deadline with this contract.

I can say with confidence that whomever we receive in the trade will not be worth $47 million, but it's not my money. Is Ishbia laundering money or something? Wowee.

One thing I'm curious about. I know second apron teams have their picks frozen if they're over 3/5 years, but is there any penalty that applies to picks we trade for? I wonder if this is a way to add draft assets while remaining over the apron.

[dremill24]

Not a fan of 4/15 guys not being able to hit a jumper, but we'll see. Sounds like there is at least a plan to upgrade at the deadline with this contract.

I can say with confidence that whomever we receive in the trade will not be worth $47 million, but it's not my money. Is Ishbia laundering money or something? Wowee.

One thing I'm curious about. I know second apron teams have their picks frozen if they're over 3/5 years, but is there any penalty that applies to picks we trade for? I wonder if this is a way to add draft assets while remaining over the apron.

The 7yr-out pick is frozen immediately upon being in the 2nd apron starting end of this year. This freezes it before you're allowed to trade it, so there arent really any shenanigans to pull. The 3/5 yr thing is applied to the previously frozen pick to move it to the end of the 1st round.

[bwgood77]

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So we really gonna have Monte starting huh?

No

I totally forgot about Beal as starting 1 is still a thing

It's not really a starting PG as much as it is you have two combo guards. Guys who can play on or off ball....a bit like Kyrie and Luka though they are both better at the traditional PG role than either of our guys.

Monte will be the 3rd guard off the bench...assuming we think of Allen as a 3...though you could almost consider Booker as a 3 for height. But Beal will sit quickly, with Monte going in and then they will stagger the stars.

[bwgood77]

Ishbia reminds me of a guy that gets into the stock market for the first time and buys all the stocks that are the highest priced and have done well for a while and are really expensive. The lessons for most new people buying in....you lose all your money and gain a lot of valuable experience.

[Puff]

You certainly cannot call Ishbia cheap.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Not a fan of 4/15 guys not being able to hit a jumper, but we'll see. Sounds like there is at least a plan to upgrade at the deadline with this contract.

I can say with confidence that whomever we receive in the trade will not be worth $47 million, but it's not my money. Is Ishbia laundering money or something? Wowee.

One thing I'm curious about. I know second apron teams have their picks frozen if they're over 3/5 years, but is there any penalty that applies to picks we trade for? I wonder if this is a way to add draft assets while remaining over the apron.

The 7yr-out pick is frozen immediately upon being in the 2nd apron starting end of this year. This freezes it before you're allowed to trade it, so there arent really any shenanigans to pull. The 3/5 yr thing is applied to the previously frozen pick to move it to the end of the 1st round.

Yeah, I think that's the extent of it. I'm thinking about the possibility we trade Okogie for a longer unwanted contract and receive a draft pick in return. I figure that pick wouldn't be penalized, but I haven't read the new CBA so wasn't sure.

Funny thing is, if KD suffers a season-ending injury, you figure we'd be the one scrambling to unload as much $$$ as possible. Every time you think Ishbia is all-in, he goes back to the ATM for more chips to put on the table.

Does this dude have a terminal illness or something? I mean, he's rich, but he's not Steve Ballmer rich.

[thamadkant]

Seeing the Suns pay 420M for a mediocre looking team is making sick actually.

NBA players getting 60M a year also makes me sick. And soon sicker with 80M a year likely.

But back to the Suns....it just looks like they're hoping to get lucky some team is going to help them.

Not my money.

Indirectly at least. The ticket prices, the subscription to games, the merchandise, the clicks you bring in. They all contribute to the NBA increase revenue and profit.

It's sickening because a lot of players don't deserve the money but teams must use the space or otherwise. There shouldn't be a minimum floor for salaries and there should be a hard cap.

[thamadkant]

Ishbia reminds me of a guy that gets into the stock market for the first time and buys all the stocks that are the highest priced and have done well for a while and are really expensive. The lessons for most new people buying in....you lose all your money and gain a lot of valuable experience.

This.

If Ishiba was spending 200M paying taxes on players 25 to 28 year old super stars that make sense with playing with each other. I would not bat an eyelid.

But to spend that much money on mediocrity with high risk of ineffectiveness.. it's just eye watering in a bad way.

[thamadkant]

You certainly cannot call Ishbia cheap.

Not cheap but a loose cannon who takes high risks is as bad as a cheap owner in sports.

It's like wasting money blatantly.


I would actually be more impressed if Ishiba spent a tenth of that tax penalty buying first rounders. I mean surely a team like Thunder would sell late first rounders for 5M each. Ishiba should be on that horse. I would feel more security if he's doing that.

[bwgood77]

I can say with confidence that whomever we receive in the trade will not be worth $47 million, but it's not my money. Is Ishbia laundering money or something? Wowee.

One thing I'm curious about. I know second apron teams have their picks frozen if they're over 3/5 years, but is there any penalty that applies to picks we trade for? I wonder if this is a way to add draft assets while remaining over the apron.

The 7yr-out pick is frozen immediately upon being in the 2nd apron starting end of this year. This freezes it before you're allowed to trade it, so there arent really any shenanigans to pull. The 3/5 yr thing is applied to the previously frozen pick to move it to the end of the 1st round.

Yeah, I think that's the extent of it. I'm thinking about the possibility we trade Okogie for a longer unwanted contract and receive a draft pick in return. I figure that pick wouldn't be penalized, but I haven't read the new CBA so wasn't sure.

Funny thing is, if KD suffers a season-ending injury, you figure we'd be the one scrambling to unload as much $$$ as possible. Every time you think Ishbia is all-in, he goes back to the ATM for more chips to put on the table.

Does this dude have a terminal illness or something? I mean, he's rich, but he's not Steve Ballmer rich.

A guy that has a lot of success doing one thing and has the irrational cocky confidence (like talking down to long time fans mocking them) will believe he will be successful at anything. Most of the successful long term owners outside of LA build through the draft to make their best teams...this goes back to the 80s with Bird, Magic, Jordan, etc...look at the best teams now. The core is through the draft. Boston did add nice pieces to the core they built and swapped things, but they didn't go trade a ton for superstars and gut the team. They made smart trades and didn't overpay. Aside from the 2004 Lakers which fell apart in the finals, the 2008 Celtics were the first real superteam built by combining 3 stars that were from other teams (unless you count the Barkley/Pippen/Hakeem Rockets which didn't work) and they won one, but the Celtics traded for a little past his prime KD, and the key piece was Al Jefferson. LeBron and Bosh going to Miami...they did beat a very young OKC squad in the finals, but lets be honest, they got very lucky to win the 2nd one against the Spurs with that crazy game 6 ending. That Spurs team built through the draft, then the Warriors, etc....the Nuggets, the TWolves now, Memphis, and all the up and coming teams (Thunder, Rockets, Spurs, Kings, Pelicans, etc). The Knicks are one team that did so with trades. And Philly did have a nice FA signing to add to Embiid and Maxey.

[Sunsdeuce]

You certainly cannot call Ishbia cheap.

Not cheap but a loose cannon who takes high risks is as bad as a cheap owner in sports.

It's like wasting money blatantly.


I would actually be more impressed if Ishiba spent a tenth of that tax penalty buying first rounders. I mean surely a team like Thunder would sell late first rounders for 5M each. Ishiba should be on that horse. I would feel more security if he's doing that.

Nailed it. Throwing money around with nothing to show for it just screams Ishbia has no idea what the hell he is doing.

[BobbieL]

Ishbia reminds me of a guy that gets into the stock market for the first time and buys all the stocks that are the highest priced and have done well for a while and are really expensive. The lessons for most new people buying in....you lose all your money and gain a lot of valuable experience.

This.

If Ishiba was spending 200M paying taxes on players 25 to 28 year old super stars that make sense with playing with each other. I would not bat an eyelid.

But to spend that much money on mediocrity with high risk of ineffectiveness.. it's just eye watering in a bad way.

Exactly right. Spending a lot of money to put out a team that I cannot see being higher than the 6th seed, maybe the 5th

I hope it works out - I want to see a winning team that is fun to watch as well. But Ishbia also might need to look in the mirror on late January and pivot and selling off.