The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2

[Qwigglez]

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Another player to keep an eye on come the trade deadline.

[Bogyo]

So who the heck is making 8 mill or less, that could be had for an expiring and a couple of seconds (or...gulp.. a 2031 unprotected), and is actually any good to help us? Legit starting PG, legit starting big wing, best bench PF/C who is almost capable of starting?

Nobody thats changing your life.

Flawed as the initial premise is, they believe their stars are enough to contend, so they're just looking for role players on the margins to find the right alchemy.

I get that it's not a game changer, and we are going for the margins. But I was hoping that somebody will come up with like 2-3 names that fit the description... I guess not easy, maybe if one of the remainig good guys get a smaller contract from a bad team then we can snif around at the deadline... Dunno, Tyus only getting this type of contract from say Utah, then maybe at the deadline we can get him for this contract and one-two seconds...Come to think of it, I think we could have Bey at the deadline, he is making about 7mill/ on his new contract, and he would certainly help, even though he is no game changer himself

[Qwigglez]

So who the heck is making 8 mill or less, that could be had for an expiring and a couple of seconds (or...gulp.. a 2031 unprotected), and is actually any good to help us? Legit starting PG, legit starting big wing, best bench PF/C who is almost capable of starting?

Nobody thats changing your life.

Flawed as the initial premise is, they believe their stars are enough to contend, so they're just looking for role players on the margins to find the right alchemy.

I get that it's not a game changer, and we are going for the margins. But I was hoping that somebody will come up with like 2-3 names that fit the description... I guess not easy, maybe if one of the remainig good guys get a smaller contract from a bad team then we can snif around at the deadline... Dunno, Tyus only getting this type of contract from say Utah, then maybe at the deadline we can get him for this contract and one-two seconds...Come to think of it, I think we could have Bey at the deadline, he is making about 7mill/ on his new contract, and he would certainly help, even though he is no game changer himself

I gave names a couple pages ago. Top of the list I imagine for the Suns would be Cody Martin from the Hornets, he's getting paid $8.1 million though and we don't know the way Okogie's contract is structured just yet. I'd probably say Saddiq Bey and now KJ Martin are on the top of the list too. Others include Jock Landale, Nick Richards, Paul Reed, Corey Krispert, Goga Bitadze, Kevin Looney, John Konchar, Kenrich Williams, Jalen McDaniels, Jevon Carter, and Trey Lyles.

[lilfishi22]

Nobody thats changing your life.

Flawed as the initial premise is, they believe their stars are enough to contend, so they're just looking for role players on the margins to find the right alchemy.

I get that it's not a game changer, and we are going for the margins. But I was hoping that somebody will come up with like 2-3 names that fit the description... I guess not easy, maybe if one of the remainig good guys get a smaller contract from a bad team then we can snif around at the deadline... Dunno, Tyus only getting this type of contract from say Utah, then maybe at the deadline we can get him for this contract and one-two seconds...Come to think of it, I think we could have Bey at the deadline, he is making about 7mill/ on his new contract, and he would certainly help, even though he is no game changer himself

I gave names a couple pages ago. Top of the list I imagine for the Suns would be Cody Martin from the Hornets, he's getting paid $8.1 million though and we don't know the way Okogie's contract is structured just yet. I'd probably say Saddiq Bey and now KJ Martin are on the top of the list too. Others include Jock Landale, Nick Richards, Paul Reed, Corey Krispert, Goga Bitadze, Kevin Looney, John Konchar, Kenrich Williams, Jalen McDaniels, Jevon Carter, and Trey Lyles.

I have no doubt internally they've already had their eyes on a number of free agent targets, most of whom likely going for more than the minimum then there's the list of guys you've listed who may be on their way out that we would have no way of trading for without Okogie's new deal.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[garrick]

Has any NBA owner ever gone bankrupt before? I can see it in Ishbia’s future especially with lower and lower home sales in the US which is his primary source of income.

New NBA TV deal is about $7 billion per year in revenue. Old deal was $2.67 billion. That is a 250% increase in TV revenue. In the latest CBA, the salary cap is smoothed so it can only increase 10% per year. The owners will be flush with cash for a few years. Players probably pissed.

Also, expansion teams will probably pay a large one-off sum to existing owners. That alone will pay for (most of) our luxury tax for one year. Then the new TV money smoothed out as well. So Ishbia will be fine either way.(ratecuts coming, should help realestate and mortgage business in 2-5 year window)

From what I read the cap does not go up instantly, I think it gets increased by 10 percent each year so the relief will not be immediate for us because we are so far above the 2nd apron right now.

[garrick]

Ishbia reminds me of a guy that gets into the stock market for the first time and buys all the stocks that are the highest priced and have done well for a while and are really expensive. The lessons for most new people buying in....you lose all your money and gain a lot of valuable experience.

This.

If Ishiba was spending 200M paying taxes on players 25 to 28 year old super stars that make sense with playing with each other. I would not bat an eyelid.

But to spend that much money on mediocrity with high risk of ineffectiveness.. it's just eye watering in a bad way.

Exactly right. Spending a lot of money to put out a team that I cannot see being higher than the 6th seed, maybe the 5th

I hope it works out - I want to see a winning team that is fun to watch as well. But Ishbia also might need to look in the mirror on late January and pivot and selling off.

Ishbia does not strike me as a person with enough humility to know when to admit he made a mistake.

He will die on this hill unfortunately.

[Mr Puddles]

You certainly cannot call Ishbia cheap.

Not cheap but a loose cannon who takes high risks is as bad as a cheap owner in sports.

Have to disagree with you here, and I think people are downplaying how bad Sarver was and how big of a role he played in preventing the Suns from winning a championship in the Nash years.

Many here are pissed off Isbiah traded 4 first rounders for Kevin Durant, let's not forget Sarver traded four first rounders for NOTHING.

People seem to have forgetter how he traded away Kurt Thomas along with two first round picks (one of which turned out to be Serge Ibaka) for... cap relief.

The worst part, Kurt Thomas was EXPIRING. So Sarver traded two first round picks, to get rid of a contract that was due to expire a mere season later - not to mention that Kurt Thomas addressed our biggest weakness at the time (a defensive post presence) .

This is on top of the string of draft picks Sarver just donated away. Remember how we sold first round picks in 06 and 07 for cash????

That's 4 first rounders that Sarver got rid of for cap relief in a span of 3 years, with only cash in our owner's pocket to show for it.

I can promise you one thing, if the Suns under Isbiah become contenders and are one obvious piece away from becoming favorites, Isbiah is going to spend whatever money is needed to try to put us in a position to get that piece. Sarver has already shown that not only is he not willing to do that, he actively traded useful players and picks and penny pinched on re-signing key free agents when we were contending for a chip.

A quick reminder below of the cost cutting moves made under Sarver, the Suns traded away either the player or his draft rights to the following players:

• PG: Rajon Rondo/ Quincy Pondexter
• SG: Bogdan Bogdanovic / Rudy Fernandez
• SF: Gordon Hayward / TJ Warren / Kezie Okpala
• PF: Loul Deng / Kurt Thomas /Skal Labissiere
• C: Serge Ibaka / Marcin Gortat / Big Papa G

For a collective return of:

• cash considerations （multiple times）
• Jackson Vroman （10 games in a Suns uniform)
• Marquise Chriss
• Keon Clark (never played in a Suns uniform)
• Ben Handlogten (never played in a Suns uniform)

[lilfishi22]

New NBA TV deal is about $7 billion per year in revenue. Old deal was $2.67 billion. That is a 250% increase in TV revenue. In the latest CBA, the salary cap is smoothed so it can only increase 10% per year. The owners will be flush with cash for a few years. Players probably pissed.

Also, expansion teams will probably pay a large one-off sum to existing owners. That alone will pay for (most of) our luxury tax for one year. Then the new TV money smoothed out as well. So Ishbia will be fine either way.(ratecuts coming, should help realestate and mortgage business in 2-5 year window)

From what I read the cap does not go up instantly, I think it gets increased by 10 percent each year so the relief will not be immediate for us because we are so far above the 2nd apron right now.

Nothing is forever. A good roster and cap sheet isn't forever (ala OKC) and neither is 2nd apron hell. Next season our salary is currently sitting at $222m ($189m 2nd apron), the season after it'll be at $235m ($208m 2nd apron) then down to $163m ($229m 2nd apron). At no point will our salary (whose expansion is already greatly limited by the 2nd apron restrictions) outpace the 10% increase in both salary and associated aprons.

[lilfishi22]

You certainly cannot call Ishbia cheap.

Not cheap but a loose cannon who takes high risks is as bad as a cheap owner in sports.

Have to disagree with you here, and I think people are downplaying how bad Sarver was and how big of a role he played in preventing the Suns from winning a championship in the Nash years.

People are pissed up Isbiah traded 4 first rounders for Kevin Durant, let's not forget Sarver traded four first rounders for NOTHING.

People seem to have forgetter how he traded away Kurt Thomas along with two first round picks (one of which turned out to be Serge Ibaka) for... cap relief.

The worst part, Kurt Thomas was EXPIRING. So Sarver traded two first round picks, to get rid of a contract that was due to expire a mere season later - not to mention that Kurt Thomas addressed our biggest weakness at the time (a defensive post presence) .

This is on top of the string of draft picks Sarver just donated away. Remember how we sold first round picks in 06 and 07 for cash????

That's 4 first rounders that Sarver got rid of for cap relief in a span of 3 years, with only cash in our owner's pocket to show for it.

I can promise you one thing, if the Suns under Isbiah become contenders and are one obvious piece away from becoming favorites, Isbiah is going to spend whatever money is needed to try to put us in a position to get that piece. Sarver has already shown that not only is he not willing to do that, he actively traded useful players and picks and penny pinched on re-signing key free agents when we were contending for a chip.

A quick reminder below of the cost cutting moves made under Sarver, the Suns traded away either the player or his draft rights to the following players:

• PG: Rajon Rondo/ Quincy Pondexter
• SG: Bogdan Bogdanovic / Rudy Fernandez
• SF: Gordon Hayward / TJ Warren / Kezie Okpala
• PF: Loul Deng / Kurt Thomas /Skal Labissiere
• C: Serge Ibaka / Marcin Gortat / Big Papa G

For a collective return of:

• cash considerations （multiple times）
• Jackson Vroman （10 games in a Suns uniform)
• Marquise Chriss
• Keon Clark (never played in a Suns uniform)
• Ben Handlogten (never played in a Suns uniform)

It's entirely acceptable to criticise Ishbia for his moves and not liking the direction, that's everyone's prerogative. But people really seem to forget just how bad and cheap Sarver was, especially during that time when we had a championship calibre team with Nash/Amare/Trix/Mike D. Unlike Ishbia who bought a team that was contending and continued to invest into the team's competitiveness, Sarver consciously sold picks and got rid of key role players in the most pivotal times when he should've thrown caution to the wind to give the SSOL Suns what they need to get over the hump. Instead, he chose to save money and directly/indirectly tore apart that team. I'll never forgive Sarver for that and for anyone who said he finally "got it" after 2 decades of ownership and was ready to go into the luxury tax to stay competitive....he ultimately never did because he sold the team before the bill came due.

[Bogyo]

Nobody thats changing your life.

Flawed as the initial premise is, they believe their stars are enough to contend, so they're just looking for role players on the margins to find the right alchemy.

I get that it's not a game changer, and we are going for the margins. But I was hoping that somebody will come up with like 2-3 names that fit the description... I guess not easy, maybe if one of the remainig good guys get a smaller contract from a bad team then we can snif around at the deadline... Dunno, Tyus only getting this type of contract from say Utah, then maybe at the deadline we can get him for this contract and one-two seconds...Come to think of it, I think we could have Bey at the deadline, he is making about 7mill/ on his new contract, and he would certainly help, even though he is no game changer himself

I gave names a couple pages ago. Top of the list I imagine for the Suns would be Cody Martin from the Hornets, he's getting paid $8.1 million though and we don't know the way Okogie's contract is structured just yet. I'd probably say Saddiq Bey and now KJ Martin are on the top of the list too. Others include Jock Landale, Nick Richards, Paul Reed, Corey Krispert, Goga Bitadze, Kevin Looney, John Konchar, Kenrich Williams, Jalen McDaniels, Jevon Carter, and Trey Lyles.

Thanks, I must have missed that. As I thought, not a too exciting pond of names. Although considering what Okogie does, especially since we have Dunn now, I think its safe to say that we would be better off with any that you posted above. Even though the best of that bunch are Bey and KJ Martin and I think KJ will not be traded for "an Okogie" as the Sixers are contenders in the east with PG.
Landale and Richard, Looney would be nice "break glass in case of emergency" bench centers. I would love any of Kenrich/McDaniels/Lyles - they would be a nice addition/missig piece from the bench rotation, who could actually make a difference there, and maybe start spot minutes in case of injury. Just not sure why their respective team would give them up for Okogie...

[sunsbg]

Certainly teams will want pick(s) attached to a bench warmer on 8M contract. As long as Suns have eligible picks that's not been a problem for our FO, so it's likely if things don't go well a good role player is brought at the trade deadline. Who knows if that player turns out to be a real difference maker.

[RaisingArizona]

You certainly cannot call Ishbia cheap.

Not cheap but a loose cannon who takes high risks is as bad as a cheap owner in sports.

Have to disagree with you here, and I think people are downplaying how bad Sarver was and how big of a role he played in preventing the Suns from winning a championship in the Nash years.

Many here are pissed off Isbiah traded 4 first rounders for Kevin Durant, let's not forget Sarver traded four first rounders for NOTHING.

People seem to have forgetter how he traded away Kurt Thomas along with two first round picks (one of which turned out to be Serge Ibaka) for... cap relief.

The worst part, Kurt Thomas was EXPIRING. So Sarver traded two first round picks, to get rid of a contract that was due to expire a mere season later - not to mention that Kurt Thomas addressed our biggest weakness at the time (a defensive post presence) .

This is on top of the string of draft picks Sarver just donated away. Remember how we sold first round picks in 06 and 07 for cash????

That's 4 first rounders that Sarver got rid of for cap relief in a span of 3 years, with only cash in our owner's pocket to show for it.

I can promise you one thing, if the Suns under Isbiah become contenders and are one obvious piece away from becoming favorites, Isbiah is going to spend whatever money is needed to try to put us in a position to get that piece. Sarver has already shown that not only is he not willing to do that, he actively traded useful players and picks and penny pinched on re-signing key free agents when we were contending for a chip.

A quick reminder below of the cost cutting moves made under Sarver, the Suns traded away either the player or his draft rights to the following players:

• PG: Rajon Rondo/ Quincy Pondexter
• SG: Bogdan Bogdanovic / Rudy Fernandez
• SF: Gordon Hayward / TJ Warren / Kezie Okpala
• PF: Loul Deng / Kurt Thomas /Skal Labissiere
• C: Serge Ibaka / Marcin Gortat / Big Papa G

For a collective return of:

• cash considerations （multiple times）
• Jackson Vroman （10 games in a Suns uniform)
• Marquise Chriss
• Keon Clark (never played in a Suns uniform)
• Ben Handlogten (never played in a Suns uniform)

Thank you for this, Mr. Leander. Solid post.

[KdoubleDees23]

Suns need Tyus Jones

[Frank Lee]

Defending Wishbia by bad mouthing/reminiscing of Sarver doesnt really go far.

So we had a bucket of chit and now its a bucket of pisz ?

Yay Suns

[KdoubleDees23]

Defending Wishbia by bad mouthing/reminiscing of Sarver doesnt really go far.

So we had a bucket of chit and now its a bucket of pisz ?

Yay Suns

Suns fans are showing what we could have had if the suns developed everyone one of those players like they turned out! I dont think that is likely

[Fo-Real]

Defending Wishbia by bad mouthing/reminiscing of Sarver doesnt really go far.

So we had a bucket of chit and now its a bucket of pisz ?

Yay Suns

Expensive GOURMET PISZ!!! GET IT RIGHT!!! Don't you get it confused with that cheap ****!!

[garrick]

Also, expansion teams will probably pay a large one-off sum to existing owners. That alone will pay for (most of) our luxury tax for one year. Then the new TV money smoothed out as well. So Ishbia will be fine either way.(ratecuts coming, should help realestate and mortgage business in 2-5 year window)

From what I read the cap does not go up instantly, I think it gets increased by 10 percent each year so the relief will not be immediate for us because we are so far above the 2nd apron right now.

Nothing is forever. A good roster and cap sheet isn't forever (ala OKC) and neither is 2nd apron hell. Next season our salary is currently sitting at $222m ($189m 2nd apron), the season after it'll be at $235m ($208m 2nd apron) then down to $163m ($229m 2nd apron). At no point will our salary (whose expansion is already greatly limited by the 2nd apron restrictions) outpace the 10% increase in both salary and associated aprons.

I think that's assuming KD doesn't get extended for an extra year at 60M but I hope Ishbia is smart enough to know that paying KD 60M at age 38 is probably not a good idea.