Now what?

[Village Idiot]

I think DET has about $5.2mil under the cap currently?

I think the only way a deal would work would be in August when THJ is available to trade?

Ivey\THJ\25' Pick swap and maybe a future pick
for
Simons and 1 of Walker\Reath\Banton\Murray

The only other way it might work is if DET traded Ivey\Fontecchio\Sasser & S&T Bobi Klintman (can that be done?), who is still unsigned
for
Simons\Banton (who could be cut\only $200k guaranteed?)

Not sure that would work.

Although, this could fit with other rumors of POR trying to trade a depth package, centered around a group of Williams\Thybulle\Reath\Banton (maybe Murray?) to teams that have open roster spots are cap strained and can do a 2 or 3 for 1 with some type of draft capital coming back?

Philly - Current roster 9 players
NO\NYK\CLE - All have current roster count of 12
UTA\SAC\CHA - All have current roster county of 13

FWIW, we have a TPE remaining from the Dame trade that is large enough to absorb Ivey so THJ doesn't have to be packaged with him. They can be separate deals.

[BlazersBroncos]

Out of teams with available roster space. I don't think CHA\UTA would have interest, and I can't see a way to make Philly\NO work, other teams (NYK\CLE\SAC) though, maybe.

NY involving Mitchell Robinson, plus DET 25' pick back? for Williams and 1 of Banton\Reath\Walker would work

CLE - S&T revolving around Okoro or Strus\Wade + 31' 1st for Williams\Reath\Walker

SAC - Huerter\Lyles, Future 1st + POR 25' 2nd back for Williams\Thybulle\Reath

RWIII has played like 40 games in 2 years and hasn’t proven health in any way.

I bet we could get a LP 1st and bad salary if he is playing well after like 30+ games but something closer to Jeff Green and a LP 1st or Gabe Vincent and a LP 1st. Even then I think we would have to send a SRP back.

I just don’t see many teams giving good value for him, even if he is healthy and playing well really. The injury history will always be with him at this point, and devalue a guy that should if always healthy return a mid teens pick.

[Walton1one]

I don't think Williams has as much value as he could have if he was healthy, but I do think he still has positive value. Teams know what he is capable of IF healthy and yes the IF is the issue. However, to a playoff team that would likely be using him as a backup\lightly throughout the season and then in an expanded role come playoff time, he would still have value, as there is proof of performance there (and he is still young).

Williams is certainly a player who needs his minutes\playing time managed carefully, He definitely makes more sense\has more value to a playoff-contending team, but I am not convinced that POR keeping him around for 1/2 a season and breaking him out of bubble wrap every few games to show that he is healthy will suddenly elevate his trade value substantially.

POR is better off dealing him now if they can, and clearing the logjam at C, opening playing time\defined roles for Ayton\Clingan & Reath, that being said if they deal Reath instead in another deal, then keep him.

[Butter]

I don't think Williams has as much value as he could have if he was healthy, but I do think he still has positive value. Teams know what he is capable of IF healthy and yes the IF is the issue. However, to a playoff team that would likely be using him as a backup\lightly throughout the season and then in an expanded role come playoff time, he would still have value, as there is proof of performance there (and he is still young).

Williams is certainly a player who needs his minutes\playing time managed carefully, He definitely makes more sense\has more value to a playoff-contending team, but I am not convinced that POR keeping him around for 1/2 a season and breaking him out of bubble wrap every few games to show that he is healthy will suddenly elevate his trade value substantially.

POR is better off dealing him now if they can, and clearing the logjam at C, opening playing time\defined roles for Ayton\Clingan & Reath, that being said if they deal Reath instead in another deal, then keep him.

I agree. It probably is not a smart move for another team to put their faith in Williams as a primary answer, but he would be an ideal 3rd center to mentor a young pivot defensively. AND, if he got healthy, he could be solid contributor.

From Portlands perspective, adding Timelord to any multi-team deal could be critical to make salaries work.

[BlazersBroncos]

I don't think Williams has as much value as he could have if he was healthy, but I do think he still has positive value. Teams know what he is capable of IF healthy and yes the IF is the issue. However, to a playoff team that would likely be using him as a backup\lightly throughout the season and then in an expanded role come playoff time, he would still have value, as there is proof of performance there (and he is still young).

Williams is certainly a player who needs his minutes\playing time managed carefully, He definitely makes more sense\has more value to a playoff-contending team, but I am not convinced that POR keeping him around for 1/2 a season and breaking him out of bubble wrap every few games to show that he is healthy will suddenly elevate his trade value substantially.

POR is better off dealing him now if they can, and clearing the logjam at C, opening playing time\defined roles for Ayton\Clingan & Reath, that being said if they deal Reath instead in another deal, then keep him.

We are not getting a FRP right now for RWIII. The play should be to move him at the deadline and then elevate Clingan to C2.

I would be pretty surprised if Donovan plays more than 12-15mpg as long as both Ayton and RWIII are on the roster. So the thing would be - do you trade RWIII now for a lower return to spoon feed Clingan more minutes or bring Clingan along a bit slower for the 1st 1/3 to 1/2 of the season and move RWIII then - for a better return - and then elevate Donovan to C2.

I strongly suspect we take the 2nd route.

[Tim Lehrbach]

I don't think Timelord will be coveted even if he produces early in the season. In the best light, he's still a limited player carrying risk of further injury. I would be surprised if his asking price rises to much higher than the zero it is right now.

[Walton1one]

BB you may be right, my issue with that is that holding on to him now (or both Ant\Grant, not to mention Thybulle) just delays the growth of younger players they expect to be core players, and for what exactly? Maybe a little better draft capital? I see your point and I advocated that originally as well, let Williams prove he is healthy and then trade him mid-season, practical, makes sense. I just am leaning into that whatever POR gets for him, won't outweigh the lost time of Clingan playing\acclimating to the NBA.

The problem with all of the veteran players like RW (and Thybulle) is that I cannot see either having any long term value with this team, and all they do is take away minutes\shots from players you need to develop and potentially give you wins you certainly don't want

Same for Grant\Ant, keeping both means one of Scoot\Sharpe are likely coming off the bench, getting reduced minutes\shots & most importantly IMO time playing alongside other core pieces, and then of course, meanwhile, both Grant\Ant are soaking up 38% of all shot attempts. Yikes, that doesn't bode well for Avdija either, another player who needs touches\shots

[Norm2953]

Those young players still have to show enough development in practice to earn more PT. It's
not a given those young players like Scoot or Sharpe will reach expectations given their draft
status.

Guys like TL have to demonstrate they can stay on the court but let's say he comes back and
is able to play an effective 15-18 minutes. He will get those minutes either here or elsewhere
via trade

think the best play is to just let things sort themselves out on their own. The guys who
have earned their minutes will play. Portland is under the tax line and doesn't have to do
anything for one suspects no matter what they do, they will finish in the 2025 lottery even
though they might not be the worst team in the league.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

Those young players still have to show enough development in practice to earn more PT. It's
not a given those young players like Scoot or Sharpe will reach expectations given their draft
status.

Guys like TL have to demonstrate they can stay on the court but let's say he comes back and
is able to play an effective 15-18 minutes. He will get those minutes either here or elsewhere
via trade

think the best play is to just let things sort themselves out on their own. The guys who
have earned their minutes will play. Portland is under the tax line and doesn't have to do
anything for one suspects no matter what they do, they will finish in the 2025 lottery even
though they might not be the worst team in the league.

Agreed, I do not really believe force feeding young players minutes they aren't ready for is really what is best for their development. I really believe that having a solid veteran they have to prove themselves against and beat out for minutes is better for them in the long run.

I also think that throwing out a bunch of young players depresses the value for your other players. No one is going to look defensively if you don't have the right pieces for a complete defense, no one is going to look like they can shoot if there is not good spacing. If you are trying to move veterans for the best deal possible then it makes sense to put them out there with other solid vets. I think the inconsistency of last year has made it harder for us to make moves this year.

I'm not super concerned about too many wins. I think if that happens then that is a good problem to have and trades are always possible up until the trade deadline. But the West is going to be super brutal and Billups has not proven he can make any team greater than the sum of its parts so again if we win too much it means things are not as bleak as they currently appear. Also being a bottom 4 team doesn't really guarantee a top 4 pick, lots of teams in the 5-8 range seem to be moving up, and the ideal spot to be is #4 since you have the same odds as the worst team but won more games than they did.

[Goldbum]

I was just told today that Portland is absolutely NOT shopping Timelord but they are listening to offers. The way it was described to me is that "Portland really values Rob and won't trade him unless another teams offer matches that value".

I found that annoying.
I was also told that Matisse and Duop will very well could go to same team if a deal happens.

I have strong confirmation from 4 sources that Joe is being "difficult" because he won't budge even a little on his price for guys right now. The underrated aspect of the Deni trade is it got him under the tax with no need to make a bad move or cut guys for the roster spot.

Lastly, Portland will likely trade Jabari Walker at some point. It's not the player but the contract that seems to be the motivating factor.
He said he wouldn't be surprised if it's a Matisse, J-Walk, Duop 3 for 1 but nothing has real traction right now or sounds imminent

[BlazersBroncos]

One team that I could see paying a FRP for RWIII simply based on a good physical at this point is Denver. Losing Holmes, who they identified early in the draft process as a guy that was expected to be a rotation guy as a rookie, is huge for them.

Robert Williams III for Zeke Nnaji + 2031 FRP LP

We take on the bad money of Zeke, but that is one of the reasons DEN is willing to move a FRP here IMO.

Then follow that up with a simple trade w/ LAL -

Jerami Grant + Duop Reath for Rui Hachimura + Gabe Vincent + 2031 FRP Top-4 Prot + 2025 SRP (Higher LAC / LAL)

G - Scoot Henderson / Anfernee Simons / Gabe Vincent
G - Shadeon Sharpe / Anfernee Simons / Dalano Banton
F - Deni Avdija / Matisse Thybulle / Rayan Rupert
F - Rui Hachimura / Toumari Camara / Jabari Walker JR / Kris Murray
C - DeAndre Ayton / Donovan Clingan / Jabari Walker JR / Zeke Nnaji

I would be MUCH more excited if we managed to go into 24/25 with the above roster.

[Butter]

I was just told today that Portland is absolutely NOT shopping Timelord but they are listening to offers. The way it was described to me is that "Portland really values Rob and won't trade him unless another teams offer matches that value".

I found that annoying.
I was also told that Matisse and Duop will very well could go to same team if a deal happens.

I have strong confirmation from 4 sources that Joe is being "difficult" because he won't budge even a little on his price for guys right now. The underrated aspect of the Deni trade is it got him under the tax with no need to make a bad move or cut guys for the roster spot.

Lastly, Portland will likely trade Jabari Walker at some point. It's not the player but the contract that seems to be the motivating factor.
He said he wouldn't be surprised if it's a Matisse, J-Walk, Duop 3 for 1 but nothing has real traction right now or sounds imminent

I have mixed thoughts on Joe sticking to his guns. Purely from a fans perspective, the most disappointing thing to me is running this team back with the veterans. It does not move the franchise towards a championship.

Maybe - if everyone is healthy, they could be a 1st round play off loss, again.

Instead of holding your best players out with fake injures to improve draft position the last 20 games, let's just rip the bandaid off and try to assemble a tram that can become a play off contender.

[Norm2953]

It does appear that Denver is a team to watch for the two front offices have done a lot of business
together and there is a need with the injury to their FRP.

Denver might want a trade with Portland that offers them depth if Portland takes on
Nnaji + a LP

[Walton1one]

Why run it back and try to make the play in? That is sheer idiocy.

Just like POR though, if that is Cronin’s thought process then he can’t be replaced soon enough.

25’ draft loaded with franchise difference makers and POR opts instead to try and make the play in. Oh yeah and CHI gets their pick, lol.

When it comes to trades it appears Cronin is as bad as Olshey was, massively overrates the value of his own players.

[tester551]

I was also told that Matisse and Duop will very well could go to same team if a deal happens.

I have strong confirmation from 4 sources that Joe is being "difficult" because he won't budge even a little on his price for guys right now. The underrated aspect of the Deni trade is it got him under the tax with no need to make a bad move or cut guys for the roster spot.

Great information.... keep it coming.

I like the idea of keeping RW3 and moving Thybulle & Reath. It is hard to come up with suitable trade partners. Especially with the new CBA and apron rules.

I don't mind Joe being difficult. More often than not that's a good thing

[tester551]

These teams could use Reath & Thybulle. Are any of these ideas plausible?

Cleveland:
-Thybulle + Reath for Wade + Picks
-Thybulle + Reath + Walker for Strus to 3rd team

Memphis:
-Thybulle + Reath for Clarke

Milwaukee :
-Thybulle + Reath for Portis to 3rd team

Pelicans:
As part of a bigger Ingram trade

Knicks:
-Thybulle + Reath for Robinson to 3rd team
-Thybulle + Reath for DiVenchenzo + Dadiet

Sacramento:
-Thybulle + Reath for Heurter


I kind of like that Kings trade the best

[Goldbum]

These teams could use Reath & Thybulle. Are any of these ideas plausible?

Cleveland:
-Thybulle + Reath for Wade + Picks
-Thybulle + Reath + Walker for Strus to 3rd team

Memphis:
-Thybulle + Reath for Clarke

Milwaukee :
-Thybulle + Reath for Portis to 3rd team

Pelicans:
As part of a bigger Ingram trade

Knicks:
-Thybulle + Reath for Robinson to 3rd team
-Thybulle + Reath for DiVenchenzo + Dadiet

Sacramento:
-Thybulle + Reath for Heurter


I kind of like that Kings trade the best

Yeah, I wish I had more specifics. Huerter does seem like a good get. I can say that prior to the Dejounte Murray deal a Thybulle/R.Will/Walker for D.Hunter deal was discussed but didn't go anywhere. I think (something like)it could be revisited as part of or before/after a Grant trade that brings back multiple pieces.

[BlazersBroncos]

These teams could use Reath & Thybulle. Are any of these ideas plausible?

Cleveland:
-Thybulle + Reath for Wade + Picks
-Thybulle + Reath + Walker for Strus to 3rd team

Memphis:
-Thybulle + Reath for Clarke

Milwaukee :
-Thybulle + Reath for Portis to 3rd team

Pelicans:
As part of a bigger Ingram trade

Knicks:
-Thybulle + Reath for Robinson to 3rd team
-Thybulle + Reath for DiVenchenzo + Dadiet

Sacramento:
-Thybulle + Reath for Heurter


I kind of like that Kings trade the best

Yeah, I wish I had more specifics. Huerter does seem like a good get. I can say that prior to the Dejounte Murray deal a Thybulle/R.Will/Walker for D.Hunter deal was discussed but didn't go anywhere. I think (something like)it could be revisited as part of or before/after a Grant trade that brings back multiple pieces.

Targeting Hunter definatley fits the FO's seeming strategy of refusing to pick a lane at all cost.

[tester551]

Yeah, I wish I had more specifics. Huerter does seem like a good get. I can say that prior to the Dejounte Murray deal a Thybulle/R.Will/Walker for D.Hunter deal was discussed but didn't go anywhere. I think (something like)it could be revisited as part of or before/after a Grant trade that brings back multiple pieces.

Targeting Hunter definatley fits the FO's seeming strategy of refusing to pick a lane at all cost.

Eww. Hunter is entirely mediocre on a large salary.
IMO, that would not be a talent upgrade

[Myth]

I was just told today that Portland is absolutely NOT shopping Timelord but they are listening to offers. The way it was described to me is that "Portland really values Rob and won't trade him unless another teams offer matches that value".

I found that annoying.
I was also told that Matisse and Duop will very well could go to same team if a deal happens.

I have strong confirmation from 4 sources that Joe is being "difficult" because he won't budge even a little on his price for guys right now. The underrated aspect of the Deni trade is it got him under the tax with no need to make a bad move or cut guys for the roster spot.

Lastly, Portland will likely trade Jabari Walker at some point. It's not the player but the contract that seems to be the motivating factor.
He said he wouldn't be surprised if it's a Matisse, J-Walk, Duop 3 for 1 but nothing has real traction right now or sounds imminent

I think Timelord would be wise to shift to a mentor role. It could keep him in the NBA for a long time where teams will keep him around even if the actual games played remains limited. For the Blazers, I hope he is in Clingan’s ear more than Ayton, just to give Clingan that slight additional edge in understanding NBA defense.

Kind of sad to hear that about Walker. I seem to like him more than most. Just a perfect role player in the sense of knowing his role and hustling. I wonder if there is just rumblings of him wanting more in his contract than he is worth, but I hope we keep him and re-sign him to a reasonable contract. If not, I hope we get real value for him, not just a couple 2nds, which I worry is all we’ll get for him as an under appreciated guy on a bad team.