Indiana Fever 2024

[MrDollarBills]

Clark isnt as bad a 1 on 1 defender as people make her out to be. And she has quick hands. Now her off ball defense needs alot of work.

She's like our man Zach LaVine. Well OK her off-ball defense is better than Zach's, because so is a traffic cone, but it's the same basic story. Long, quick guard does a nice job of on-ball defending, but gets lost within the team concept.

Situational awareness is such an underrated aspect of defense. Gotta know where to be and when to be there.

[MrDollarBills]

Yeah she be complaining, read her lips and she told the refs "you're so bad". Phx has a ton of players out but that was fun basketball to watch as a Fever fan. Its like they took some of the passing and cutting mojo from the Mystics.

I told yall she talks crazy as hell out there

The refs I don't care for, I think she needs to chill with showing frustration with her teammates on those passes. That's on you sis if they aren't catching them cleanly, but I believe time played together plus continuity next season will reduce a lot of those mistakes on passes. It's a growth process for everyone

[rmontro]

everyone on the fever trying crazy passes now

Another thing I notice is the Fever is starting to sound more like Clark on the mic in interviews, saying all the right things, giving credit to their teammates, etc.

Fever now own the tie breaker vs Phoenix.

Think they'll need it?

I don't know, I'm glad the Fever won, but it left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. It's a reminder that they aren't really that good yet, even though they show flashes. And they probably have a definite ceiling. Oh well, maybe they'll surprise me. Not feeling too good about the game against the Lynx tomorrow. Still, the last time I felt this pessimistic, they beat the LIberty.

[Ice Man]

It's a reminder that they aren't really that good yet, even though they show flashes. And they probably have a definite ceiling.

Correct. Partly that's because they're too young, but mostly because they don't start defenders at the #2, #3, or #4 positions, and Clark isn't on the court for her defense either. The team has considerably talent, to be sure, but the fit isn't good.

[Billy Goat]

When the haters start nitpicking defense, then you know the player is the truth lol

[hermes]

Yeah she be complaining, read her lips and she told the refs "you're so bad". Phx has a ton of players out but that was fun basketball to watch as a Fever fan. Its like they took some of the passing and cutting mojo from the Mystics.

I told yall she talks crazy as hell out there

The refs I don't care for, I think she needs to chill with showing frustration with her teammates on those passes. That's on you sis if they aren't catching them cleanly, but I believe time played together plus continuity next season will reduce a lot of those mistakes on passes. It's a growth process for everyone

passing is a two way street, yeah it would be nice if all the passes were perfect but they're in a live game against professional athletes - the passes aren't always going to be perfect. there is a certain amount of responsibility on the recipient to actually make the catch, good pass or not. putting it all on the passer is unfair

[MrDollarBills]

Yeah she be complaining, read her lips and she told the refs "you're so bad". Phx has a ton of players out but that was fun basketball to watch as a Fever fan. Its like they took some of the passing and cutting mojo from the Mystics.

I told yall she talks crazy as hell out there

The refs I don't care for, I think she needs to chill with showing frustration with her teammates on those passes. That's on you sis if they aren't catching them cleanly, but I believe time played together plus continuity next season will reduce a lot of those mistakes on passes. It's a growth process for everyone

passing is a two way street, yeah it would be nice if all the passes were perfect but they're in a live game against professional athletes - the passes aren't always going to be perfect. there is a certain amount of responsibility on the recipient to actually make the catch, good pass or not. putting it all on the passer is unfair

I agree to a point, i think she has to know her personnel. When Mitchell told her to opt for a chest pass instead of going for the fancy bounce, that was her telling CC to get the ball to her straight. Having moments like that is all apart of building chemistry.

If balls are routinely getting turned over on passes, the onus is on the facilitator to get the ball where she knows her teammates can grab them consistently. These are all pros here, I can't sit here and say that the entire Fever roster has butterfingers and CC has no responsibility for the turnovers being committed on her passes.

[Ice Man]

I thought at the start of the season that the TOs were to some extent the fault of Clark's teammates, but now I realize that the miscues are almost entirely on her. It's not fair to trash her teammates for the mistakes, just to make Clark look better. She's a very, very aggressive passer, which overall helps her team win games, but which does lead to a lot of turnovers on her part.

For proof, see her turnover rate in college. That was also high, every year (about 5 per game), even though the personnel at Iowa was stable. The missed passes aren't because she's new to her teammates, or her teammates are messing up. They are because she's Caitlin Clark and high turnovers are part of what she does.

That said, the reason that she is now getting WAY more assists than earlier in the season is due primarily to her teammates, who are now running the floor and giving Clark the chance to make plays. At the start of the season they weren't doing that -- and that fault was on them (or the coach), not on Clark.

[Ghetto Gospel]

I thought at the start of the season that the TOs were to some extent the fault of Clark's teammates, but now I realize that the miscues are almost entirely on her. It's not fair to trash her teammates for the mistakes, just to make Clark look better. She's a very, very aggressive passer, which overall helps her team win games, but which does lead to a lot of turnovers on her part.

For proof, see her turnover rate in college. That was also high, every year (about 5 per game), even though the personnel at Iowa was stable. The missed passes aren't because she's new to her teammates, or her teammates are messing up. They are because she's Caitlin Clark and high turnovers are part of what she does.

That said, the reason that she is now getting WAY more assists than earlier in the season is due primarily to her teammates, who are now running the floor and giving Clark the chance to make plays. At the start of the season they weren't doing that -- and that fault was on them (or the coach), not on Clark.

actually i think early in the season, her teammates just weren't used to playing with such an aggressive passer, so they weren't ready for some of the passes that were coming their way, and that led to turnovers. whether that's clarks fault or her teammates fault is up for debate. certainly blame can be shared. just thinking about last game, clark threw 2 full-court passes to kelsey that ended up in a layup when early in the season, kelsey was mishandling those passes.

i think nowadays though, i'd attribute a larger share of the turnover blame to her. i think she's considerably more aggressive now than she was to start the season now that her teammates know to expect her passes and so many of her passes these days are highlight worthy. whether it's worth it or not to be an aggressive passer is another question because she does generate a lot of high-value looks with a ton of layups. it's just high risk, high reward passing

[hermes]

I agree to a point, i think she has to know her personnel. When Mitchell told her to opt for a chest pass instead of going for the fancy bounce, that was her telling CC to get the ball to her straight. Having moments like that is all apart of building chemistry.

If balls are routinely getting turned over on passes, the onus is on the facilitator to get the ball where she knows her teammates can grab them consistently. These are all pros here, I can't sit here and say that the entire Fever roster has butterfingers and CC has no responsibility for the turnovers being committed on her passes.

they're all pros but kelsey mitchell can't catch a bounce pass?

i watch clark for four years at iowa so i've seen plenty of ill-advised passes and turnovers that were absolutely on her. i've also seen plenty of passes clang off teammates hands. who's fault is it most often? who knows, does it really matter? sometimes clark, sometimes teammates, sometimes defense makes a great play

the longer they play together the better it will get but it won't ever be perfect. they are all learning and working through this together in real time. basketball's hard

[MrDollarBills]

I thought at the start of the season that the TOs were to some extent the fault of Clark's teammates, but now I realize that the miscues are almost entirely on her. It's not fair to trash her teammates for the mistakes, just to make Clark look better. She's a very, very aggressive passer, which overall helps her team win games, but which does lead to a lot of turnovers on her part.

For proof, see her turnover rate in college. That was also high, every year (about 5 per game), even though the personnel at Iowa was stable. The missed passes aren't because she's new to her teammates, or her teammates are messing up. They are because she's Caitlin Clark and high turnovers are part of what she does.

That said, the reason that she is now getting WAY more assists than earlier in the season is due primarily to her teammates, who are now running the floor and giving Clark the chance to make plays. At the start of the season they weren't doing that -- and that fault was on them (or the coach), not on Clark.

Right, now that chemistry is developing they're catching and converting her passes more and more. These things take time.

[ellobo]

I agree to a point, i think she has to know her personnel. When Mitchell told her to opt for a chest pass instead of going for the fancy bounce, that was her telling CC to get the ball to her straight. Having moments like that is all apart of building chemistry.

If balls are routinely getting turned over on passes, the onus is on the facilitator to get the ball where she knows her teammates can grab them consistently. These are all pros here, I can't sit here and say that the entire Fever roster has butterfingers and CC has no responsibility for the turnovers being committed on her passes.

they're all pros but kelsey mitchell can't catch a bounce pass?

i watch clark for four years at iowa so i've seen plenty of ill-advised passes and turnovers that were absolutely on her. i've also seen plenty of passes clang off teammates hands. who's fault is it most often? who knows, does it really matter? sometimes clark, sometimes teammates, sometimes defense makes a great play

the longer they play together the better it will get but it won't ever be perfect. they are all learning and working through this together in real time. basketball's hard

Yeah, I don't think you can generalize about her turnovers. She seems to have at least a couple of head-scratching bad decisions every game. Like, why did you even try that? Not only wasn't it there, but even if it got through, it wasn't going to lead to anything. And then there are a few gunslinger high-risk/high-reward tries that don't pan out. And then a few that probably or definitely should have been handled by the receiver but weren't. Add them all together, with the amount she handles the ball, and it comes out a high number. It's the really bad decisions I'd like to see less of.

I did think Mitchell was great with her cutting against the Mercury, reading the defense and timing her cuts really well. She got a bunch of buckets from Clark and a couple from Boston on high energy and high IQ off-ball movement.

[rmontro]

I thought at the start of the season that the TOs were to some extent the fault of Clark's teammates, but now I realize that the miscues are almost entirely on her. It's not fair to trash her teammates for the mistakes, just to make Clark look better. She's a very, very aggressive passer, which overall helps her team win games, but which does lead to a lot of turnovers on her part.

I'm not willing to say her teammates have no responsibility on the dropped passes. Boston told her publicly to keep passing her way and they were adapting to it. Sometimes she gets a little reckless, but I don't want to see her do all chest passes either. That's like telling her not to shoot deep threes. Her passing style is what most makes her so entertaining to watch, and is a big part of why so many people want to see her.

I don't care about whose fault the turnovers are. If she can keep them to about five a game or less, which she has been doing more recently, mostly, I think it's fine. She makes up for it. Yeah, she's going to have a lot of turnovers. The all time leader in turnovers in the NBA is LeBron James. It's part of the package, and I think he knows what he's doing.

[cdubbz]

Lexie is all over the place. I love it (and her).

[cdubbz]

Lexie is all over the place. I love it (and her).

Offensively she needs work lol.

[MrDollarBills]

Man that was a massive win for the Fever.

.500 is in reach

[rmontro]

Huge win for the Fever, they took control right at crunch time. I know a lot of people would get rid of her, but it seems to me Kelsi Mitchell is such a key for this team. They say she's too short for defense, but she got a key steal today. She's such a gutsy offensive player, it's like her center of gravity is about one foot off the ground lol, and she leads the team in points.

I was a little surprised Caitlin "only" had six assists, but I'm very happy with the win. Nice showing of Fever fans in Minnesota also.

Why are the Lynx colors blue and gray, but they were wearing green and black?

[cdubbz]

Huge win for the Fever, they took control right at crunch time. I know a lot of people would get rid of her, but it seems to me Kelsi Mitchell is such a key for this team

Why are the Lynx colors blue and gray, but they were wearing green and black?

Are fans really want Mitchell off the team? I thought it was Wheeler. Mitchell is a tiny beast. She’s perfect next to CC as a scoring machine.

[rmontro]

Are fans really want Mitchell off the team? I thought it was Wheeler. Mitchell is a tiny beast. She’s perfect next to CC as a scoring machine.

Well, Wheeler's first out the door. But I've heard a lot of criticism about MItchell too, mostly about her size, defense, and not passing. The people wanting to cut Mitchell are looking at the finer details of crafting a championship team, I think. I like her, she's a firecracker.

[jumpman28]

Lexie is all over the place. I love it (and her).

Offensively she needs work lol.

I know she hasn't played well offensively the last few games, but she is miles better on perimeter defense than anyone the Fever have and she knows how to move without the ball and where to be on the floor. The team just seems to play more smoothly when she is on the floor. Even today she got a ton of deflections and hustle plays that turned into possessions for the Fever