The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2

[bwgood77]

Ishbia is playing blackjack and gets two 8s while the dealer is showing a face card. He decides to split them. Then he gets another 8 and splits them again. It doesn't end well.

[enigmatics]

You certainly cannot call Ishbia cheap.

Not cheap but a loose cannon who takes high risks is as bad as a cheap owner in sports.

Have to disagree with you here, and I think people are downplaying how bad Sarver was and how big of a role he played in preventing the Suns from winning a championship in the Nash years.

Many here are pissed off Isbiah traded 4 first rounders for Kevin Durant, let's not forget Sarver traded four first rounders for NOTHING.

People seem to have forgetter how he traded away Kurt Thomas along with two first round picks (one of which turned out to be Serge Ibaka) for... cap relief.

The worst part, Kurt Thomas was EXPIRING. So Sarver traded two first round picks, to get rid of a contract that was due to expire a mere season later - not to mention that Kurt Thomas addressed our biggest weakness at the time (a defensive post presence) .

This is on top of the string of draft picks Sarver just donated away. Remember how we sold first round picks in 06 and 07 for cash????

That's 4 first rounders that Sarver got rid of for cap relief in a span of 3 years, with only cash in our owner's pocket to show for it.

I can promise you one thing, if the Suns under Isbiah become contenders and are one obvious piece away from becoming favorites, Isbiah is going to spend whatever money is needed to try to put us in a position to get that piece. Sarver has already shown that not only is he not willing to do that, he actively traded useful players and picks and penny pinched on re-signing key free agents when we were contending for a chip.

A quick reminder below of the cost cutting moves made under Sarver, the Suns traded away either the player or his draft rights to the following players:

• PG: Rajon Rondo/ Quincy Pondexter
• SG: Bogdan Bogdanovic / Rudy Fernandez
• SF: Gordon Hayward / TJ Warren / Kezie Okpala
• PF: Loul Deng / Kurt Thomas /Skal Labissiere
• C: Serge Ibaka / Marcin Gortat / Big Papa G

For a collective return of:

• cash considerations （multiple times）
• Jackson Vroman （10 games in a Suns uniform)
• Marquise Chriss
• Keon Clark (never played in a Suns uniform)
• Ben Handlogten (never played in a Suns uniform)

Respectfully, while very indicting of the first 2/3rd's of his era as Suns owner - that list is old.

He was clearly loosening the reigns and being far more thoughtful of the team's moves as we moved into the McD era and beyond.

I'd still honestly prefer him over Ishbia because what Ish is attempting has become a dinosaur as far as how to build a championship team. I should add a caveat that he would have needed to bring the G-League and scouting back too.

[TeamTragic]

Now we have come full circle because apparently Sarver is officially better than Ishbia

[Fo-Real]

Ishbia is playing blackjack and gets two 8s while the dealer is showing a face card. He decides to split them. Then he gets another 8 and splits them again. It doesn't end well.

I'm standing behind the table hoping this fool wins!!! If he doesn't, its frustrating but what happens after he has to go home with empty pockets if he loses, dose not effect me!!

[Fo-Real]

Now we have come full circle because apparently Sarver is now better than Ishbia

Damned if you do.........

[Revived]

I hate rewarding players with bad work ethics with an increase in salary and bigger contract. I don’t care if the reasoning for it is to use his salary in trades or whatever BS.

Josh Okogie is a guy that has quite literally hardly at all improved since he entered the league. I would wager he spends his whole offseason likely partying, traveling, smoking and literally nothing else. Probably starts working out a bit in September and then training camp and season starts.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okogijo01.html

Even his steal, block and rebound numbers from his rookie season are wildly similar to his numbers from the last season or the year before.

People wonder why Mikal Bridges was so beloved as a Sun and it’s because guy had an insane work ethic and it showed as his numbers and skillset improved each and every season from when he was a young player.

I didn’t even want him back on a vet min deal as it would’ve taken up a valuable roster spot.

[lilfishi22]

From what I read the cap does not go up instantly, I think it gets increased by 10 percent each year so the relief will not be immediate for us because we are so far above the 2nd apron right now.

Nothing is forever. A good roster and cap sheet isn't forever (ala OKC) and neither is 2nd apron hell. Next season our salary is currently sitting at $222m ($189m 2nd apron), the season after it'll be at $235m ($208m 2nd apron) then down to $163m ($229m 2nd apron). At no point will our salary (whose expansion is already greatly limited by the 2nd apron restrictions) outpace the 10% increase in both salary and associated aprons.

I think that's assuming KD doesn't get extended for an extra year at 60M but I hope Ishbia is smart enough to know that paying KD 60M at age 38 is probably not a good idea.

I also wouldn't assume we have KD after the next season or so either.

[lilfishi22]

Not cheap but a loose cannon who takes high risks is as bad as a cheap owner in sports.

Have to disagree with you here, and I think people are downplaying how bad Sarver was and how big of a role he played in preventing the Suns from winning a championship in the Nash years.

Many here are pissed off Isbiah traded 4 first rounders for Kevin Durant, let's not forget Sarver traded four first rounders for NOTHING.

People seem to have forgetter how he traded away Kurt Thomas along with two first round picks (one of which turned out to be Serge Ibaka) for... cap relief.

The worst part, Kurt Thomas was EXPIRING. So Sarver traded two first round picks, to get rid of a contract that was due to expire a mere season later - not to mention that Kurt Thomas addressed our biggest weakness at the time (a defensive post presence) .

This is on top of the string of draft picks Sarver just donated away. Remember how we sold first round picks in 06 and 07 for cash????

That's 4 first rounders that Sarver got rid of for cap relief in a span of 3 years, with only cash in our owner's pocket to show for it.

I can promise you one thing, if the Suns under Isbiah become contenders and are one obvious piece away from becoming favorites, Isbiah is going to spend whatever money is needed to try to put us in a position to get that piece. Sarver has already shown that not only is he not willing to do that, he actively traded useful players and picks and penny pinched on re-signing key free agents when we were contending for a chip.

A quick reminder below of the cost cutting moves made under Sarver, the Suns traded away either the player or his draft rights to the following players:

• PG: Rajon Rondo/ Quincy Pondexter
• SG: Bogdan Bogdanovic / Rudy Fernandez
• SF: Gordon Hayward / TJ Warren / Kezie Okpala
• PF: Loul Deng / Kurt Thomas /Skal Labissiere
• C: Serge Ibaka / Marcin Gortat / Big Papa G

For a collective return of:

• cash considerations （multiple times）
• Jackson Vroman （10 games in a Suns uniform)
• Marquise Chriss
• Keon Clark (never played in a Suns uniform)
• Ben Handlogten (never played in a Suns uniform)

Respectfully, while very indicting of the first 2/3rd's of his era as Suns owner - that list is old.

He was clearly loosening the reigns and being far more thoughtful of the team's moves as we moved into the McD era and beyond.

I'd still honestly prefer him over Ishbia because what Ish is attempting has become a dinosaur as far as how to build a championship team. I should add a caveat that he would have needed to bring the G-League and scouting back too.

Loosening the reigns? As in half a decade of being one of the lowest salaried teams, no pressure to spend, no pressure to invest, no tax bill in sight? Let's not forget, during that time he hired one of, if not the cheapest front offices and coaching staff because he clearly didn't care.

I don't know how you could prefer a guy who bought into a contender then stripped that contender of its competitiveness, thought he could replace Amare with Hedo, Childress and Warrick and spent half of his tenure with the Suns frolicking at the bottom of the league

[bwgood77]

Ishbia is playing blackjack and gets two 8s while the dealer is showing a face card. He decides to split them. Then he gets another 8 and splits them again. It doesn't end well.

I'm standing behind the table hoping this fool wins!!! If he doesn't, its frustrating but what happens after he has to go home with empty pockets if he loses, dose not effect me!!

Yes, I'm hoping the dealer busts. Ishiba has the utmost confidence it will happen.

[lilfishi22]

I hate rewarding players with bad work ethics with an increase in salary and bigger contract. I don’t care if the reasoning for it is to use his salary in trades or whatever BS.

Josh Okogie is a guy that has quite literally hardly at all improved since he entered the league. I would wager he spends his whole offseason likely partying, traveling, smoking and literally nothing else. Probably starts working out a bit in September and then training camp and season starts.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okogijo01.html

Even his steal, block and rebound numbers from his rookie season are wildly similar to his numbers from the last season or the year before.

People wonder why Mikal Bridges was so beloved as a Sun and it’s because guy had an insane work ethic and it showed as his numbers and skillset improved each and every season from when he was a young player.

I didn’t even want him back on a vet min deal as it would’ve taken up a valuable roster spot.

Hell of an assumption

Do just the smallest bit of googling and you'll find Okogie's work ethic is the last thing that should be criticised

[Revived]

I hate rewarding players with bad work ethics with an increase in salary and bigger contract. I don’t care if the reasoning for it is to use his salary in trades or whatever BS.

Josh Okogie is a guy that has quite literally hardly at all improved since he entered the league. I would wager he spends his whole offseason likely partying, traveling, smoking and literally nothing else. Probably starts working out a bit in September and then training camp and season starts.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okogijo01.html

Even his steal, block and rebound numbers from his rookie season are wildly similar to his numbers from the last season or the year before.

People wonder why Mikal Bridges was so beloved as a Sun and it’s because guy had an insane work ethic and it showed as his numbers and skillset improved each and every season from when he was a young player.

I didn’t even want him back on a vet min deal as it would’ve taken up a valuable roster spot.

Hell of an assumption

Do just the smallest bit of googling and you'll find Okogie's work ethic is the last thing that should be criticised

I don’t need to do any googling, I can check his statistics which I linked in the post. Do you see any remotely significant improvement in his game from when he was a rookie till now?

Even saw a Wolves fan during our series say that Okogie somehow became a worse ball handler now than when he was a rookie.

He’s a vet min guy, AT BEST.

[lilfishi22]

I hate rewarding players with bad work ethics with an increase in salary and bigger contract. I don’t care if the reasoning for it is to use his salary in trades or whatever BS.

Josh Okogie is a guy that has quite literally hardly at all improved since he entered the league. I would wager he spends his whole offseason likely partying, traveling, smoking and literally nothing else. Probably starts working out a bit in September and then training camp and season starts.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okogijo01.html

Even his steal, block and rebound numbers from his rookie season are wildly similar to his numbers from the last season or the year before.

People wonder why Mikal Bridges was so beloved as a Sun and it’s because guy had an insane work ethic and it showed as his numbers and skillset improved each and every season from when he was a young player.

I didn’t even want him back on a vet min deal as it would’ve taken up a valuable roster spot.

Hell of an assumption

Do just the smallest bit of googling and you'll find Okogie's work ethic is the last thing that should be criticised

I don’t need to do any googling, I can check his statistics which I linked in the post. Do you see any remotely significant improvement in his game from when he was a rookie till now?

Even saw a Wolves fan during our series say that Okogie somehow became a worse ball handler now than when he was a rookie.

He’s a vet min guy, AT BEST.

There are plenty of players with amazing work ethic who never "got it". It shouldn't take away from the work they put in.

[Qwigglez]

Ishbia is playing blackjack and gets two 8s while the dealer is showing a face card. He decides to split them. Then he gets another 8 and splits them again. It doesn't end well.

Sounds like he would have lost had he not split them anyway. He now has 4 8's and perhaps gets all face cards or aces, or maybe even a 3, where he can double down. Dealer clearly doesn't have blackjack and has a 25% chance to have another face card. Another 8% chance to have a 9 to just straight up beat Ishbia. Risky move, but Ishbia can possibly take home a lot of money. He can also lose a lot. But hey... not my money.

[garrick]

Read on Twitter

Concerning.

I would tell KD to pull out of the Olympics and just focus on being healthy for the NBA season. Another Achilles surgery would be the end of his career.

[KLEON]

Read on Twitter

Concerning.

I would tell KD to pull out of the Olympics and just focus on being healthy for the NBA season. Another Achilles surgery would be the end of his career.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

Concerning.

I would tell KD to pull out of the Olympics and just focus on being healthy for the NBA season. Another Achilles surgery would be the end of his career.

He's been extension eligible since the 8th (July).

Read on Twitter

I have to wonder how this latest injury considering his age, past history, etc will weigh towards a decision on possibly extending him.

[garrick]

Read on Twitter

Concerning.

I would tell KD to pull out of the Olympics and just focus on being healthy for the NBA season. Another Achilles surgery would be the end of his career.

He's been extension eligible since the 8th (July).

Read on Twitter

I have to wonder how this latest injury considering his age, past history, etc will weigh towards a decision on possibly extending him.

His age is the main reason to consider trading him while his value is somewhat high.

We saw what happened to CP3 he just fell off a cliff in 2022 so we are really taking a gamble that he is going to play at a very high level in his late 30's.

[sunsbg]

I understand Ishbia was not ready to admit after just one year the mistake of trading so many assets for 35yo KD, but if there is no deep playoffs run again there is no way he keeps paying 400M+ for this team. KD's injury history alone(then you have Beal) is a ticking bomb. Extending him right now would be insane.

[DirtyDez]

So what can Okogie/31’ 1st bring back?

[RedIndian]

The official numbers on Okogie's deal - 8.25 million on his first year.

16 players who make between Little's 6.75 million and Okogie's 8.25. These are now the players we are (legally) allowed to trade for, that we couldn't with Little's contract alone:

Ron Holland
Cody Martin
Jock Landale
Trey Lyles
Kevon Looney
Jaden Ivey
Vasilije Micic
Jonathan Kuminga
Anthony Black
Tidjane Salaun
Ben Mathurin
Jae'Sean Tate
Franz Wagner
Ayo Dosunmu
Bilal Coulibaly.
Donovan Clingan

Realistically, out of this list, it's basically Cody Martin, Looney, Micic and Dosunmu who could be trade targets.

Dosunmu would make the most sense - good defender, and his 3-ball is improving. Wouldn't trade the 2031 for him tho. Not sure Chicago would do it for Okogie + two 2nds

Of course, the other guys making less than 6.75 million are also still available to us. Okogie's expiring deal is probably a lot more enticing than Little's contract, which has 2 more years to go after this year.

So I think the likes of Corey Kispert, Nick Richards, Dean Wade, Tre Mann, Isaiah Jackson, Day'ron Sharpe, Santi Aldama could all be realistic targets.