Do we have any negative contracts?

[theBigLip]

When I pop on the trade board and want to propose a trade for us, I look at our roster and can’t find contracts that I don’t like, except of course for THJ.

THJ - negative but expiring, could still be moved at the deadline.
Harris might be a little negative, but not too bad.
Rookie deals are basically all good.
Stewart seems fair, will be below MLE by the end of it w the rising cap.
Tek is a great deal although too short.

So looking good - lots of tradeable contracts. We’re not stuck w anyone.

[chrbal]

There’s not really negative contracts anymore. There’s albatross nuclear contracts like Ben Simmons until his expiring year and others like that. But we’ve kind of moved past the era of players like Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon eating up way too much money for way too long.

I’m sure there’s ones you could argue are negative, but I just don’t feel like trying to figure those out

[Cowology]

There’s not really negative contracts anymore. There’s albatross nuclear contracts like Ben Simmons until his expiring year and others like that. But we’ve kind of moved past the era of players like Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon eating up way too much money for way too long.

I’m sure there’s ones you could argue are negative, but I just don’t feel like trying to figure those out

Yeah, 7+ year contracts used to be a thing. I still call it Juwan Howard Syndrom anytime a solid player gets a bad rap for being vastly overpaid. You can't really blame somebody for taking the money.

[VicVinegar]

I'd say Stew is a little overpaid for sure, but I'm not super worried about it, he definitely provides some value - unlike dead cap like Joe Harris, Noel, Killian, etc. But I will say when you look at the fact that Paul Reed was waived at 2 years, $15M total, I think it would cost a decent chunk to move Stew and his 3 years, $45M. I think he's probably closer to a $10M guy than a $15m guy, but I don't think his contract is detrimental by any means.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

Definitely Stewart.

Harris was an overpay. But at least he’s only two years.

[Pharaoh]

Stewart as a overpay?

He's making MLE money and most of us agree he'd be a rotation player on a good team!

Fact his name comes up so often in trade discussions shows he's valued elsewhere too.

I don't think we have any "negative" contracts.

Langdon did a reasonable job this off-season not going for the quick fix or big splashy move.



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[bstein14]

THjr is very clearly a negative contract a team just paid to get him off their books. If he was a FA this summer he most likely would have gotten a deal like Beasley 1 year $6 million or maybe 2 years $12 million but its also possible he might have only got minimum money like Burks did. The fact we used up a pretty massive amount of cap space on him for 3 seconds was largely disliked by our fanbase.

Stewart also, is this RFA market, would have likely gotten less this summer than what we paid him. He would have had no problem getting something like 2 years $16 million but I doubt he would have gotten more than 3 years $33 or perhaps 4 years $48 at most IMO. So few teams used MLE ($12.822) but even if he got it from someone it would have been closer to 4 years $54 than the 4 years $60 million he got.

I'm guessing if he gets moved at some point it will be us moving multiple pieces for a big contract so we won't really ever likely see what he would fetch in a trade just by himself.

Tobias Harris is also likely overpaid I think he was using OKC's interest (which may or may not have been real) as leverage to try to get a bigger deal and as soon as OKC spent their capspace he agreed to our deal. We met with him on day one and likely made him an offer then and there and he likely came back asking for more and looked at all the options out there and we clearly paid him more than what other teams would... The Clippers could have taken him back in a double sign-and-trade as well but they didn't have interest at that level of money. I doubt we trade him since he's on a two year deal but I would consider him a bit of a negative value contract given his age and what he currently provides on the court. He's pretty clearly a 4th best starter on most teams at this point.

Paul Reed Literally no other team was willing to trade a 2nd rounder for him from Philly to absorb him into their cap space or trade exception. I think that's literally the definition of not being worth what you're paid. If we would have to give up a pick to get rid of his contract that's technically a net negative contract right?

[chrbal]

There’s not really negative contracts anymore. There’s albatross nuclear contracts like Ben Simmons until his expiring year and others like that. But we’ve kind of moved past the era of players like Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon eating up way too much money for way too long.

I’m sure there’s ones you could argue are negative, but I just don’t feel like trying to figure those out

Yeah, 7+ year contracts used to be a thing. I still call it Juwan Howard Syndrom anytime a solid player gets a bad rap for being vastly overpaid. You can't really blame somebody for taking the money.

The age of the ten year contracts. People would’ve lost their minds if Cade entered the NBA signed to a ten year.

Paul Reed Literally no other team was willing to trade a 2nd rounder for him from Philly to absorb him into their cap space or trade exception. I think that's literally the definition of not being worth what you're paid. If we would have to give up a pick to get rid of his contract that's technically a net negative contract right?

If the Sixers would’ve been able to take back any money, I think they could’ve gotten some picks back. The George and Martin signings made that impossible. I don’t think a team at this point, not wanting to take him into cap space really doesn’t apply. I think it was more the timing, had the Sixers tried to move him at the start of free agency (with his contract setup the way it is), they could’ve gotten some offers

[Snakebites]

Paul Reed Literally no other team was willing to trade a 2nd rounder for him from Philly to absorb him into their cap space or trade exception. I think that's literally the definition of not being worth what you're paid. If we would have to give up a pick to get rid of his contract that's technically a net negative contract right?

I'm not sure this is fair to say.

The Sixers needed a team with cap space to trade with. Why would a team with cap space do that knowing they can claim him for free?

THJ is a negative value contract. He might not be negative value for us on our team though. We'll see. I'm not a fan of him but could also see him have a bounce back year here.

[Uncle Mxy]

Does Monty count?

[thesack12]

Stewart also, is this RFA market, would have likely gotten less this summer than what we paid him. He would have had no problem getting something like 2 years $16 million but I doubt he would have gotten more than 3 years $33 or perhaps 4 years $48 at most IMO. So few teams used MLE ($12.822) but even if he got it from someone it would have been closer to 4 years $54 than the 4 years $60 million he got.

For sure.

In this market, as a RFA, its doubtful Stew would have received an 8 figure offer. The way this market has played it, he might not even of received an outside offer at all.

Detroit certainly would have gotten Stew for cheaper, perhaps even like 1/2 as much.

Its another reminder, that when it comes to unremarkable role players there really isn't much of a reason to give guys early extensions.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

Stewart also, is this RFA market, would have likely gotten less this summer than what we paid him. He would have had no problem getting something like 2 years $16 million but I doubt he would have gotten more than 3 years $33 or perhaps 4 years $48 at most IMO. So few teams used MLE ($12.822) but even if he got it from someone it would have been closer to 4 years $54 than the 4 years $60 million he got.

For sure.

In this market, as a RFA, its doubtful Stew would have received an 8 figure offer. The way this market has played it, he might not even of received an outside offer at all.

Detroit certainly would have gotten Stew for cheaper, perhaps even like 1/2 as much.

Its another reminder, that when it comes to unremarkable role players there really isn't much of a reason to give guys early extensions.

But lots of backup centers are on four year, $60 million deals!

Wait a minute……

[Patrick27]

Stewart also, is this RFA market, would have likely gotten less this summer than what we paid him. He would have had no problem getting something like 2 years $16 million but I doubt he would have gotten more than 3 years $33 or perhaps 4 years $48 at most IMO. So few teams used MLE ($12.822) but even if he got it from someone it would have been closer to 4 years $54 than the 4 years $60 million he got.

For sure.

In this market, as a RFA, its doubtful Stew would have received an 8 figure offer. The way this market has played it, he might not even of received an outside offer at all.

Detroit certainly would have gotten Stew for cheaper, perhaps even like 1/2 as much.

Its another reminder, that when it comes to unremarkable role players there really isn't much of a reason to give guys early extensions.

He's shown drastic improvement in his outside shot (.383 last season on 175 attempts), he doesn't back down from anyone, and seems to have good leadership and work ethic intangibles. On paper, he's exactly what we want on this team. He's also only 23, so his timeline is right. He's not in his prime yet. Of course some team is going to make an offer, because it's rare to get all of that and lock it down for around 15M a year for 4 years. I wish he could stay on the floor a bit more, but other than that, he's a good player for us and would be for other teams, too.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

He's shown drastic improvement in his outside shot (.383 last season on 175 attempts), he doesn't back down from anyone, and seems to have good leadership and work ethic intangibles.

Role player.

They seem to be signing for about $8 million a year these days.

[thesack12]

Stewart also, is this RFA market, would have likely gotten less this summer than what we paid him. He would have had no problem getting something like 2 years $16 million but I doubt he would have gotten more than 3 years $33 or perhaps 4 years $48 at most IMO. So few teams used MLE ($12.822) but even if he got it from someone it would have been closer to 4 years $54 than the 4 years $60 million he got.

For sure.

In this market, as a RFA, its doubtful Stew would have received an 8 figure offer. The way this market has played it, he might not even of received an outside offer at all.

Detroit certainly would have gotten Stew for cheaper, perhaps even like 1/2 as much.

Its another reminder, that when it comes to unremarkable role players there really isn't much of a reason to give guys early extensions.

He's shown drastic improvement in his outside shot (.383 last season on 175 attempts), he doesn't back down from anyone, and seems to have good leadership and work ethic intangibles. On paper, he's exactly what we want on this team. He's also only 23, so his timeline is right. He's not in his prime yet. Of course some team is going to make an offer, because it's rare to get all of that and lock it down for around 15M a year for 4 years. I wish he could stay on the floor a bit more, but other than that, he's a good player for us and would be for other teams, too.

Yeah, all that sounds good. And I get it, Stew is a likable guy and his style is the closest thing to "Pistons DNA" that has been in house for awhile.

But in reality Stew has played a large role for teams that have been at the bottom of the league for his entire career. Whatever leadership and culture he provides, doesn't seem to be something we can't live without.

On top of that there sure seems to be a divided opinion on whether or not Stew should even be a starter for a terrible Detroit team.

Stewart is a tweener type role player with a very limited skillset. As a general rule, there isn't really much motiviation to give those types of players early, unnecessary, extensions.

In addition, we are witnessing the middle class NBA player starting to become an endangered species. If Stew hit the market this summer he would not have received any offers close to what Weaver gave him, especially carrying restricted FA status.

Stewart isn't a toxic contract, but that doesn't mean it was a good signing either.

[Cowology]

Stewart as a overpay?

He's making MLE money and most of us agree he'd be a rotation player on a good team!

Fact his name comes up so often in trade discussions shows he's valued elsewhere too.

I don't think we have any "negative" contracts.

Langdon did a reasonable job this off-season not going for the quick fix or big splashy move

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I argued at the time we signed him that his contract will wind up looking good in years 3/4. He's on a flat rate with a rising cap. That is not a bad contract at all.

[tmorgan]

I can’t with this board sometimes.

You honestly think Stew’s 4/60 flat (team option year 4) is a bad contract?

Spend some time on the T&T board. He’s getting put in every Pistons trade (by non-Pistons fans) as an asset, and not a minor one.

Tobias was a slight overpay and THJ is definitely overpaid. That’s it.

[Cowology]

Paul Reed Literally no other team was willing to trade a 2nd rounder for him from Philly to absorb him into their cap space or trade exception. I think that's literally the definition of not being worth what you're paid. If we would have to give up a pick to get rid of his contract that's technically a net negative contract right?

I'm not sure this is fair to say.

The Sixers needed a team with cap space to trade with. Why would a team with cap space do that knowing they can claim him for free?

THJ is a negative value contract. He might not be negative value for us on our team though. We'll see. I'm not a fan of him but could also see him have a bounce back year here.

I kinda expect THJ to have a similar impact to Burks. He'll have games where, if not for him, we'd have lost by more...but he doesn't bring anything else to the table. If he's not hitting then he's worse than useless. It's like Killian without the defense, rebounding & passing.

That said, we really need the shooting so as long as he is hitting then whatever. I kinda picture him slumping at some point and playing himself out of the rotation, but I'm hoping he plays well enough to be used in a trade.

[bstein14]

Best case scenario is JB makes everyone earn their playing time, and the younger kids earn it over THjr. No chance we are getting anything for him unless a team wants his expiring for a larger longer contract they want to trade.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if THjr gets waived later this year so he can pick a team he wants to join (maybe Denver who is a bit thin with their first rounder out for the year plus the loss of KCP).

[Crymson]

But lots of backup centers are on four year, $60 million deals!

Wait a minute……

He's somewhat overpaid for this team; Weaver doubtless paid him on the idiot notion that he'd be able to play effectively at power forward in addition to center, and that (even dumber) he might be able to be a respectable starter there.

That said, keep in mind that the only important number is percentage of the cap (rather than absolute number). By the time next summer rolls around, Stew's contract will be only about 10% of the cap.