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2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+

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Re: 2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+ 

Post#321 » by three3d » Mon Jul 15, 2024 2:34 pm

Knightro wrote:
three3d wrote:
SOUL wrote:
Can have both?


Yes this is true, but if it came to a BIG trade Franz would get the bigger return. I like TdS , this upcoming season will be fun because we should have some really creative lineups to see.


My brother they just gave Franz 224M that could become 269M.

He's not going anywhere.



Exactly and if you can get close to the same level of all around play and scoring from TdS at half the cost it doesn’t really make sense to keep that higher salary player.

Seriously if you had a chance of getting an ELITE point guard in a trade for Franz and you could put TdS right into Franz’s spot and get close to that level of production PLUS seriously upgrading your starting pg how could you not do that?
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Re: 2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+ 

Post#322 » by basketballRob » Mon Jul 15, 2024 2:40 pm

Franz seems like the type of player that may spend his entire career with the Magic. It's hard to find a 6'10" ballhandling forward. Every team is looking for a player like that.

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Re: 2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+ 

Post#323 » by three3d » Mon Jul 15, 2024 2:42 pm

I’m not knocking Franz any way at all, I know how great he already is but what I’m saying is Franz does have a massive contract and if we’re getting close to the same level of production and possibly higher efficiency from someone at half the salary it’s smart to go with the cheaper option. I also think the trade return for a package including Franz would be pretty damn good. I would only do this for a legit star level point guard that’s how highly I think of Franz. We are built with expiring contracts and youth as well as draft assets to make something big happen in the next 2 seasons.
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Re: 2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+ 

Post#324 » by pepe1991 » Mon Jul 15, 2024 2:44 pm

Black is probably most overanalyzed Magic player since Fultz's jumpshot ( screenshots from practice :rofl: )

My only takaway about him from SL is his inability to handle pressure and picks up his dribble too easly.
Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans. -John Lennon
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Re: 2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+ 

Post#325 » by three3d » Mon Jul 15, 2024 2:46 pm

basketballRob wrote:Franz seems like the type of player that may spend his entire career with the Magic. It's hard to find a 6'10" ballhandling forward. Every team is looking for a player like that.

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Exactly to the point, EVERY TEAM IS LOOKING FOR A PLAYER LIKE THAT. TdS doesn’t have to be Franz, he just needs to be efficient and smart. Franz could net a really great return especially with how young he still is.
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Re: 2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+ 

Post#326 » by ORLMagicGirl15 » Mon Jul 15, 2024 2:46 pm

We have both players. One of which have yet to play a minute in the NBA and the other got a five year max contract, there is no reason to even think of trading either.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-John 3:16

Go Magic, Go Dwight, Go Vuc, Go Paolo, Go Keegan :)
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Re: 2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+ 

Post#327 » by basketballRob » Mon Jul 15, 2024 2:48 pm

three3d wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Franz seems like the type of player that may spend his entire career with the Magic. It's hard to find a 6'10" ballhandling forward. Every team is looking for a player like that.

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Exactly to the point, EVERY TEAM IS LOOKING FOR A PLAYER LIKE THAT. TdS doesn’t have to be Franz, he just needs to be efficient and smart. Franz could net a really great return especially with how young he still is.
I think you're putting too much stock into TDS before he's even played an NBA game.

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Re: 2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+ 

Post#328 » by three3d » Mon Jul 15, 2024 2:48 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Black is probably most overanalyzed Magic player since Fultz's jumpshot ( screenshots from practice :rofl: )

My only takaway about him from SL is his inability to handle pressure and picks up his dribble too easly.


He seriously is going to need a full season of playing HEAVY minutes and could see Osceola really working good for him for a year.
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Re: 2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+ 

Post#329 » by three3d » Mon Jul 15, 2024 2:50 pm

basketballRob wrote:
three3d wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Franz seems like the type of player that may spend his entire career with the Magic. It's hard to find a 6'10" ballhandling forward. Every team is looking for a player like that.

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Exactly to the point, EVERY TEAM IS LOOKING FOR A PLAYER LIKE THAT. TdS doesn’t have to be Franz, he just needs to be efficient and smart. Franz could net a really great return especially with how young he still is.
I think you're putting too much stock into TDS before he's even played an NBA game.

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In just 2 games so far in Summer League he’s already shown he doesn’t belong out there playing those games.
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Re: 2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+ 

Post#330 » by three3d » Mon Jul 15, 2024 2:57 pm

AB’s growth and development is being stunted seriously by us not having a real point guard to teach him with. He’s equivalently doing on the job training without a trainer IMO. The go out there and do it on your own and learn it on your own approach will backfire
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Re: 2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+ 

Post#331 » by zaymon » Mon Jul 15, 2024 3:16 pm

basketballRob wrote:
three3d wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Franz seems like the type of player that may spend his entire career with the Magic. It's hard to find a 6'10" ballhandling forward. Every team is looking for a player like that.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app



Exactly to the point, EVERY TEAM IS LOOKING FOR A PLAYER LIKE THAT. TdS doesn’t have to be Franz, he just needs to be efficient and smart. Franz could net a really great return especially with how young he still is.
I think you're putting too much stock into TDS before he's even played an NBA game.

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Franz is slasher, passer and defender, TdS is tall shooter with some ball handling and passing. They are good fit next to each other not one replacing the other.
My money is on Banchero going number 1 !
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Re: 2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+ 

Post#332 » by three3d » Mon Jul 15, 2024 3:28 pm

zaymon wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
three3d wrote:

Exactly to the point, EVERY TEAM IS LOOKING FOR A PLAYER LIKE THAT. TdS doesn’t have to be Franz, he just needs to be efficient and smart. Franz could net a really great return especially with how young he still is.
I think you're putting too much stock into TDS before he's even played an NBA game.

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Franz is slasher, passer and defender, TdS is tall shooter with some ball handling and passing. They are good fit next to each other not one replacing the other.


Who fits better next to Paolo? Does Paolo need another slasher next to him that primarily wants to take the defender off the dribble to the cup, or does he need a smart player that understands spacing and relocating to the open spot for a wide open jumper? I should hope we are looking at the most effective player to put next to Paolo.
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Re: 2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+ 

Post#333 » by basketballRob » Mon Jul 15, 2024 3:37 pm

three3d wrote:
zaymon wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I think you're putting too much stock into TDS before he's even played an NBA game.

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Franz is slasher, passer and defender, TdS is tall shooter with some ball handling and passing. They are good fit next to each other not one replacing the other.


Who fits better next to Paolo? Does Paolo need another slasher next to him that primarily wants to take the defender off the dribble to the cup, or does he need a smart player that understands spacing and relocating to the open spot for a wide open jumper? I should hope we are looking at the most effective player to put next to Paolo.
As of right now, Franz is still better than Paolo.

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Re: 2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+ 

Post#334 » by eyriq » Mon Jul 15, 2024 3:41 pm

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Re: 2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+ 

Post#335 » by three3d » Mon Jul 15, 2024 3:43 pm

basketballRob wrote:
three3d wrote:
zaymon wrote:
Franz is slasher, passer and defender, TdS is tall shooter with some ball handling and passing. They are good fit next to each other not one replacing the other.


Who fits better next to Paolo? Does Paolo need another slasher next to him that primarily wants to take the defender off the dribble to the cup, or does he need a smart player that understands spacing and relocating to the open spot for a wide open jumper? I should hope we are looking at the most effective player to put next to Paolo.
As of right now, Franz is still better than Paolo.

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Hot take, Franz is better than Paolo?? Is that what you’re saying ?
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Re: 2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+ 

Post#336 » by three3d » Mon Jul 15, 2024 3:45 pm

eyriq wrote:
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LAS VEGAS - Franz Wagner, selected eighth overall by the Magic in the 2021 NBA Draft, played in four of Orlando's five summer league games in Las Vegas and averaged 8.0 points, 3.8 rebounds, 1.0 assists and 1.2 steals.Aug 18, 2021

We shall see how this plays out in the end.

https://www.nba.com/magic/news/review-franz-wagner-nba-summer-league-20210818#
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Re: 2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+ 

Post#337 » by jezzerinho » Mon Jul 15, 2024 4:24 pm

89Magicfan wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:Because he's 19 years old and 6'7", smart and a hard worker... I don't think we need to wonder or care what exactly AB is right now. There are a bunch of decent future roles or outcomes for him, any of which could happen. He has time to try being one thing and then pivot to being another.

But the idea hes going to be excellent at any one single archetype this year, to the point that he should start now by default (or be prioritised over a lead guard who could really drive this team) is crazy talk to me.



He was pick 6th. It’s not crazy talk.


What does being the 6th pick have to do with what position he plays and when hes ready to play it as a starter?

Oh, I see. 6th picks should start otherwise they shouldnt have been picked 6th? Well, if you ask me, thats a pretty backwards way of looking at it. Your right to start as a rookie on a tanking team isnt really earned - its given to you, because the priority is to lose and youll probably be very helpful in that respect. In parallel, you learn stuff - hopefully more winning habits than losing habits.

On a winning team, starting is a privilege and not a right for everyone. If it turns out Black is a better starting Guard than Suggs/KCP for what he brings, then problem solved.

But its more likely than not he isn't better. So he has to earn his minutes. And because he isnt playing lights out as a lead guard even at SL level, those minutes might not come as an on-ball initiator.

But, thats ok right? Whats important is he develops. Because hes a polivalent kind of kid, he has more dice to roll than the average kid. And yes, being the 6th pick earns him patience and maybe some favouritism. But not a divine right.
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Re: 2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+ 

Post#338 » by JBSouthpaw » Mon Jul 15, 2024 4:26 pm

three3d wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
three3d wrote:

Exactly to the point, EVERY TEAM IS LOOKING FOR A PLAYER LIKE THAT. TdS doesn’t have to be Franz, he just needs to be efficient and smart. Franz could net a really great return especially with how young he still is.
I think you're putting too much stock into TDS before he's even played an NBA game.

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In just 2 games so far in Summer League he’s already shown he doesn’t belong out there playing those games.


I like all 3 playing together, it actually looks like NBA basketball, when only 1 is out there we look like most of these SL teams, very disorganized and players shot searching. They need each other to have any real value on the court. AB looks better having 2 real threats to find, Jett and TDS need AB and each other to keep the floor spacing.
Really, I'd sub them on and off together, I want to see 1 more game from them.
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Re: 2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+ 

Post#339 » by 89Magicfan » Mon Jul 15, 2024 4:33 pm

jezzerinho wrote:
89Magicfan wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:Because he's 19 years old and 6'7", smart and a hard worker... I don't think we need to wonder or care what exactly AB is right now. There are a bunch of decent future roles or outcomes for him, any of which could happen. He has time to try being one thing and then pivot to being another.

But the idea hes going to be excellent at any one single archetype this year, to the point that he should start now by default (or be prioritised over a lead guard who could really drive this team) is crazy talk to me.



He was pick 6th. It’s not crazy talk.


What does being the 6th pick have to do with what position he plays and when hes ready to play it as a starter?

Oh, I see. 6th picks should start otherwise they shouldnt have been picked 6th? Well, if you ask me, thats a pretty backwards way of looking at it. Your right to start as a rookie on a tanking team isnt really earned - its given to you, because the priority is to lose and youll probably be very helpful in that respect. In parallel, you learn stuff - hopefully more winning habits than losing habits.

On a winning team, starting is a privilege and not a right for everyone. If it turns out Black is a better starting Guard than Suggs/KCP for what he brings, then problem solved.

But its more likely than not he isn't better. So he has to earn his minutes. And because he isnt playing lights out as a lead guard even at SL level, those minutes might not come as an on-ball initiator.

But, thats ok right? Whats important is he develops. Because hes a polivalent kind of kid, he has more dice to roll than the average kid. And yes, being the 6th pick earns him patience and maybe some favouritism. But not a divine right.


Because he’s not a middle school prospect. He’s 20 years old and usually have a good idea to what their roles will be most of the time at that point. Sure he’ll get better and develop to some extent but there’s nothing that stands out that says he’s a lead guard. Most of what makes a lead guard is there early on which is fine. We may not need him to be one for success.
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Re: 2024 NBA Summer League Game 2: Orlando Magic (1-0) v. New Orleans Pelicans (0-1) - 7:30pm ET on NBA TV/ESPN+ 

Post#340 » by GelbeWand09 » Mon Jul 15, 2024 5:15 pm

three3d wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
three3d wrote:
Who fits better next to Paolo? Does Paolo need another slasher next to him that primarily wants to take the defender off the dribble to the cup, or does he need a smart player that understands spacing and relocating to the open spot for a wide open jumper? I should hope we are looking at the most effective player to put next to Paolo.
As of right now, Franz is still better than Paolo.

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Hot take, Franz is better than Paolo?? Is that what you’re saying ?


Pretty much every advanced stat is saying exactly this, yea. Its not so surprising. Franz is not much worse of a scorer (but more efficient), playmaking they are on the same level too but Franz is the much better defender.
Next season or 2 this looks maybe different (except the defense. Paolo doesnt have the tools) but now...

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