Why The Raptors Should Explore Trading Jakob Poeltl To The Knicks

[PhilBlackson]

Idc about trading him to the Knicks specifically but I definitely wanna trade him, he’s not some impossible to replace C, I have full confidence we could find a comparable one down the line & don’t gimme this sh*t about “instilling a winning culture” lol an extra handful of games but ultimately a late lottery team does absolutely nothing.

Being in that top 7-8 though could be completely franchise altering and we could get a player that is not only as good as Scottie but maybe even better. Getting a player like that on the other hand will actually create a winning culture long term and take us out of the no man’s land we’re headed towards if we don’t.

Proudly on TeamTradePoeltl.

[billy_hoyle]

Trading Jakob Poeltl isn't getting you anywhere close to the absolute dregs that is the bottom feeders of the East - and the Blazers probably aren't that far behind so you're looking at maybe 7th best odds in a worst-case (best?) scenario. If healthy but that goes without saying.

Jakob is a good player to be sure but he's not raising the floor as significantly as a lot of people are suggesting, and the impact on our record without him is undermined by how banged up that Raptors team was last year. Like it or not, we're probably stuck in that 9/10 play-in spot regardless of whether Poeltl's on the team. So unless there's a "too good to turn down" offer then you might as well keep him and let the young guys develop some PnR chemistry with him.

Not if you look at those Vegas projections.

A trade of our only true veteran C likely costs us a few wins and puts us below Charlotte and out of the top 10 (i.e. outside the play-in).

You can likely undermine this team by trading Jakob.

[OakleyDokely]

Poeltl really isn't about winning culture, it's more about ensuring players are not playing out of position, like having Barnes play the bulk of his minutes at C and it's also about getting the most out your players on the offensive end because someone needs to set proper screens to get your offensive players a little more space.

If a good deal is available for Poeltl, trade him, but you still need find quality minutes from a legit C because it helps with the development of players and systems.

[kalel123]

Why are people so intent on trading Poeltl for sake of trading him? This is never the way to do anything. (well, in most cases including this one.)

The trade to get him was still terrible but it doesn't necessarily mean he's a terrible asset that we need to get rid of ASAP. Unless you have a young replacement chomping at the bits or you can get a wonderful return you can't say no to, you keep him. He's not perfect but he plays his position well within his ability and we are so obviously and severely undersized without him. Gotta solve that first before even thinking of trading him. It is also not healthy to purposely tank by pulling a rug out from under the current core in such a dirty deceitful manner.

[Scase]

Poeltl really isn't about winning culture, it's more about ensuring players are not playing out of position, like having Barnes play the bulk of his minutes at C and it's also about getting the most out your players on the offensive end because someone needs to set proper screens to get your offensive players a little more space.

If a good deal is available for Poeltl, trade him, but you still need find quality minutes from a legit C because it helps with the development of players and systems.

Barnes doesn't have to play out of position just because Jak is gone though. We've got rookies that can be thrown into the fire, we can find some low level C that we can pick up on the minimum if need be. If we're not trying to actively win, it shouldn't matter who we have in that slot.

What is the risk of throwing say Mogbo and Carlson into the fire? Some lacklustre screen setting isn't going to be the difference maker between 5th in the east and 5th worst in the league. We should be maximizing assets and developing younger players. We can do both without Scottie defending the C.

We just need a warm body in the C spot, if the current crop of young guys cant screen or defend properly, well that's what they are here for, to learn. There are just not enough compelling reasons to keep Jak if a reasonable trade is out there.

[OakleyDokely]

Poeltl really isn't about winning culture, it's more about ensuring players are not playing out of position, like having Barnes play the bulk of his minutes at C and it's also about getting the most out your players on the offensive end because someone needs to set proper screens to get your offensive players a little more space.

If a good deal is available for Poeltl, trade him, but you still need find quality minutes from a legit C because it helps with the development of players and systems.

Barnes doesn't have to play out of position just because Jak is gone though. We've got rookies that can be thrown into the fire, we can find some low level C that we can pick up on the minimum if need be. If we're not trying to actively win, it shouldn't matter who we have in that slot.

What is the risk of throwing say Mogbo and Carlson into the fire? Some lacklustre screen setting isn't going to be the difference maker between 5th in the east and 5th worst in the league. We should be maximizing assets and developing younger players. We can do both without Scottie defending the C.

We just need a warm body in the C spot, if the current crop of young guys cant screen or defend properly, well that's what they are here for, to learn. There are just not enough compelling reasons to keep Jak if a reasonable trade is out there.

I don't think those guys are ready to play heavy NBA minutes. Even guys at the top of draft are rarely ready to play consistent minutes in year 1. Mogbo might not even be a C longterm. He's probably a smallball C in certain situations, but going up against guys like Jokic, Embiid, Vuc etc in year 1 is pretty unrealistic for a 2nd round pick. Carlson was undrafted and will probably spend the year in the gleague.

Who you have in that spot does matter because it will impact IQ in the PnR, it will impact Barnes' position defensively. If you want to maximize the young talent you do have, you can't have a big black hole in that spot.

[Scase]

Poeltl really isn't about winning culture, it's more about ensuring players are not playing out of position, like having Barnes play the bulk of his minutes at C and it's also about getting the most out your players on the offensive end because someone needs to set proper screens to get your offensive players a little more space.

If a good deal is available for Poeltl, trade him, but you still need find quality minutes from a legit C because it helps with the development of players and systems.

Barnes doesn't have to play out of position just because Jak is gone though. We've got rookies that can be thrown into the fire, we can find some low level C that we can pick up on the minimum if need be. If we're not trying to actively win, it shouldn't matter who we have in that slot.

What is the risk of throwing say Mogbo and Carlson into the fire? Some lacklustre screen setting isn't going to be the difference maker between 5th in the east and 5th worst in the league. We should be maximizing assets and developing younger players. We can do both without Scottie defending the C.

We just need a warm body in the C spot, if the current crop of young guys cant screen or defend properly, well that's what they are here for, to learn. There are just not enough compelling reasons to keep Jak if a reasonable trade is out there.

I don't think those guys are ready to play heavy NBA minutes. Even guys at the top of draft are rarely ready to play consistent minutes in year 1. Mogbo might not even be a C longterm. He's probably a smallball C in certain situations, but going up against guys like Jokic, Embiid, Vuc etc in year 1 is pretty unrealistic for a 2nd round pick. Carlson was undrafted and will probably spend the year in the gleague.

Who you have in that spot does matter because it will impact IQ in the PnR, it will impact Barnes' position defensively. If you want to maximize the young talent you do have, you can't have a big black hole in that spot.

I agree with you somewhat on that, but I think it's not really a concern for this year. If we were pushing for the playoffs I would be in complete agreement with you, but that's not the case now. Definitely is a problem we have to keep in mind for the future as we'd need to replace him as a starter permanently if neither of the other guys can hack it, but I just don't see the value of having him there now.

It'll impact the PnR with IQ, but only in the sense that we won't be able to run it as well. It's not like IQ needs to learn how to run a PnR, so it really only ends up causing us to score less and lose more, which is not a bad thing with the upcoming draft. As for Scottie defensively, I think it's a bit TBD, Scottie is a great help defender, so it might actually help the issue. There's no real reason he should be playing defence as a C, even if the guys we have are getting punished, it's again not killing the team, it's just getting us more losses.

Jak is useful if we want some wins, outside of that, he's a luxury we don't really need/can afford. This is a developing team, having glaring holes in the roster is kinda the expectation.

[OakleyDokely]

Barnes doesn't have to play out of position just because Jak is gone though. We've got rookies that can be thrown into the fire, we can find some low level C that we can pick up on the minimum if need be. If we're not trying to actively win, it shouldn't matter who we have in that slot.

What is the risk of throwing say Mogbo and Carlson into the fire? Some lacklustre screen setting isn't going to be the difference maker between 5th in the east and 5th worst in the league. We should be maximizing assets and developing younger players. We can do both without Scottie defending the C.

We just need a warm body in the C spot, if the current crop of young guys cant screen or defend properly, well that's what they are here for, to learn. There are just not enough compelling reasons to keep Jak if a reasonable trade is out there.

I don't think those guys are ready to play heavy NBA minutes. Even guys at the top of draft are rarely ready to play consistent minutes in year 1. Mogbo might not even be a C longterm. He's probably a smallball C in certain situations, but going up against guys like Jokic, Embiid, Vuc etc in year 1 is pretty unrealistic for a 2nd round pick. Carlson was undrafted and will probably spend the year in the gleague.

Who you have in that spot does matter because it will impact IQ in the PnR, it will impact Barnes' position defensively. If you want to maximize the young talent you do have, you can't have a big black hole in that spot.

I agree with you somewhat on that, but I think it's not really a concern for this year. If we were pushing for the playoffs I would be in complete agreement with you, but that's not the case now. Definitely is a problem we have to keep in mind for the future as we'd need to replace him as a starter permanently if neither of the other guys can hack it, but I just don't see the value of having him there now.

It'll impact the PnR with IQ, but only in the sense that we won't be able to run it as well. It's not like IQ needs to learn how to run a PnR, so it really only ends up causing us to score less and lose more, which is not a bad thing with the upcoming draft. As for Scottie defensively, I think it's a bit TBD, Scottie is a great help defender, so it might actually help the issue. There's no real reason he should be playing defence as a C, even if the guys we have are getting punished, it's again not killing the team, it's just getting us more losses.

Jak is useful if we want some wins, outside of that, he's a luxury we don't really need/can afford. This is a developing team, having glaring holes in the roster is kinda the expectation.

I think having competent players at each position is a huge part of development because it does effect the other players. It doesn't need to be Poeltl, but you need someone competent. It's why teams like WAS are still bringing in good vets like Val and Bey. WAS could easily put Sarr out there for 40 minutes, they could put Carrington out there a bunch but it wouldn't be best for their development or for the other players around them.

[Scase]

I don't think those guys are ready to play heavy NBA minutes. Even guys at the top of draft are rarely ready to play consistent minutes in year 1. Mogbo might not even be a C longterm. He's probably a smallball C in certain situations, but going up against guys like Jokic, Embiid, Vuc etc in year 1 is pretty unrealistic for a 2nd round pick. Carlson was undrafted and will probably spend the year in the gleague.

Who you have in that spot does matter because it will impact IQ in the PnR, it will impact Barnes' position defensively. If you want to maximize the young talent you do have, you can't have a big black hole in that spot.

I agree with you somewhat on that, but I think it's not really a concern for this year. If we were pushing for the playoffs I would be in complete agreement with you, but that's not the case now. Definitely is a problem we have to keep in mind for the future as we'd need to replace him as a starter permanently if neither of the other guys can hack it, but I just don't see the value of having him there now.

It'll impact the PnR with IQ, but only in the sense that we won't be able to run it as well. It's not like IQ needs to learn how to run a PnR, so it really only ends up causing us to score less and lose more, which is not a bad thing with the upcoming draft. As for Scottie defensively, I think it's a bit TBD, Scottie is a great help defender, so it might actually help the issue. There's no real reason he should be playing defence as a C, even if the guys we have are getting punished, it's again not killing the team, it's just getting us more losses.

Jak is useful if we want some wins, outside of that, he's a luxury we don't really need/can afford. This is a developing team, having glaring holes in the roster is kinda the expectation.

I think having competent players at each position is a huge part of development because it does effect the other players. It doesn't need to be Poeltl, but you need someone competent. It's why teams like WAS are still bringing in good vets like Val and Bey. WAS could easily put Sarr out there for 40 minutes, they could put Carrington out there a bunch but it wouldn't be best for their development or for the other players around them.

I agree, it's one of the reasons I was bummed seeing JV going for such a low cost. We could have easily added him to the team if we weren't shackled to BB/GTJ/Sasha and moved Jak. I'm fine with not running rookies 48mpg, but I feel like using Jak is like filling up a rusted, beat up 1996 civic with 93 octane gas. It's just a waste of money.

[Duffman100]

I agree with you somewhat on that, but I think it's not really a concern for this year. If we were pushing for the playoffs I would be in complete agreement with you, but that's not the case now. Definitely is a problem we have to keep in mind for the future as we'd need to replace him as a starter permanently if neither of the other guys can hack it, but I just don't see the value of having him there now.

It'll impact the PnR with IQ, but only in the sense that we won't be able to run it as well. It's not like IQ needs to learn how to run a PnR, so it really only ends up causing us to score less and lose more, which is not a bad thing with the upcoming draft. As for Scottie defensively, I think it's a bit TBD, Scottie is a great help defender, so it might actually help the issue. There's no real reason he should be playing defence as a C, even if the guys we have are getting punished, it's again not killing the team, it's just getting us more losses.

Jak is useful if we want some wins, outside of that, he's a luxury we don't really need/can afford. This is a developing team, having glaring holes in the roster is kinda the expectation.

I think having competent players at each position is a huge part of development because it does effect the other players. It doesn't need to be Poeltl, but you need someone competent. It's why teams like WAS are still bringing in good vets like Val and Bey. WAS could easily put Sarr out there for 40 minutes, they could put Carrington out there a bunch but it wouldn't be best for their development or for the other players around them.

I agree, it's one of the reasons I was bummed seeing JV going for such a low cost. We could have easily added him to the team if we weren't shackled to BB/GTJ/Sasha and moved Jak. I'm fine with not running rookies 48mpg, but I feel like using Jak is like filling up a rusted, beat up 1996 civic with 93 octane gas. It's just a waste of money.

Except Jak is a better screener, finisher, passer and defender. Things that will help the youth improve.

I love JV with all my heart, one of my favs of all time. But I think the extra 9 million in salary here is better spent on a center who does more to help the young guys develop.

[Chandan]

Poeltl really isn't about winning culture, it's more about ensuring players are not playing out of position, like having Barnes play the bulk of his minutes at C and it's also about getting the most out your players on the offensive end because someone needs to set proper screens to get your offensive players a little more space.

If a good deal is available for Poeltl, trade him, but you still need find quality minutes from a legit C because it helps with the development of players and systems.

Barnes doesn't have to play out of position just because Jak is gone though. We've got rookies that can be thrown into the fire, we can find some low level C that we can pick up on the minimum if need be. If we're not trying to actively win, it shouldn't matter who we have in that slot.

What is the risk of throwing say Mogbo and Carlson into the fire? Some lacklustre screen setting isn't going to be the difference maker between 5th in the east and 5th worst in the league. We should be maximizing assets and developing younger players. We can do both without Scottie defending the C.

We just need a warm body in the C spot, if the current crop of young guys cant screen or defend properly, well that's what they are here for, to learn. There are just not enough compelling reasons to keep Jak if a reasonable trade is out there.

I don't think those guys are ready to play heavy NBA minutes. Even guys at the top of draft are rarely ready to play consistent minutes in year 1. Mogbo might not even be a C longterm. He's probably a smallball C in certain situations, but going up against guys like Jokic, Embiid, Vuc etc in year 1 is pretty unrealistic for a 2nd round pick. Carlson was undrafted and will probably spend the year in the gleague.

Who you have in that spot does matter because it will impact IQ in the PnR, it will impact Barnes' position defensively. If you want to maximize the young talent you do have, you can't have a big block hole in that spot.

I assume you are talking about Jokic and embiid during the regular season right? So what if we lose by 10 instead of 20?

[Scase]

I think having competent players at each position is a huge part of development because it does effect the other players. It doesn't need to be Poeltl, but you need someone competent. It's why teams like WAS are still bringing in good vets like Val and Bey. WAS could easily put Sarr out there for 40 minutes, they could put Carrington out there a bunch but it wouldn't be best for their development or for the other players around them.

I agree, it's one of the reasons I was bummed seeing JV going for such a low cost. We could have easily added him to the team if we weren't shackled to BB/GTJ/Sasha and moved Jak. I'm fine with not running rookies 48mpg, but I feel like using Jak is like filling up a rusted, beat up 1996 civic with 93 octane gas. It's just a waste of money.

Except Jak is a better screener, finisher, passer and defender. Things that will help the youth improve.

I love JV with all my heart, one of my favs of all time. But I think the extra 9 million in salary here is better spent on a center who does more to help the young guys develop.

I've said it before, if having Jak here is the linchpin to these guys developing well, or poorly. We should blow it up right now and trade everything.

No teams fortunes should ever be at grave risk due to a player of his calibre.

This isn't a discussion of Jak vs JV. Jak is better, period. But Jak has more trade value, and that is something we need over whatever marginal developmental improvements people think he provides.

[OakleyDokely]

Barnes doesn't have to play out of position just because Jak is gone though. We've got rookies that can be thrown into the fire, we can find some low level C that we can pick up on the minimum if need be. If we're not trying to actively win, it shouldn't matter who we have in that slot.

What is the risk of throwing say Mogbo and Carlson into the fire? Some lacklustre screen setting isn't going to be the difference maker between 5th in the east and 5th worst in the league. We should be maximizing assets and developing younger players. We can do both without Scottie defending the C.

We just need a warm body in the C spot, if the current crop of young guys cant screen or defend properly, well that's what they are here for, to learn. There are just not enough compelling reasons to keep Jak if a reasonable trade is out there.

I don't think those guys are ready to play heavy NBA minutes. Even guys at the top of draft are rarely ready to play consistent minutes in year 1. Mogbo might not even be a C longterm. He's probably a smallball C in certain situations, but going up against guys like Jokic, Embiid, Vuc etc in year 1 is pretty unrealistic for a 2nd round pick. Carlson was undrafted and will probably spend the year in the gleague.

Who you have in that spot does matter because it will impact IQ in the PnR, it will impact Barnes' position defensively. If you want to maximize the young talent you do have, you can't have a big block hole in that spot.

I assume you are talking about Jokic and embiid during the regular season right? So what if we lose by 10 instead of 20?

It's not about losing, it's about playing guys not ready for those roles and damaging their development, which also impacts the players around them.

[Duffman100]

I agree, it's one of the reasons I was bummed seeing JV going for such a low cost. We could have easily added him to the team if we weren't shackled to BB/GTJ/Sasha and moved Jak. I'm fine with not running rookies 48mpg, but I feel like using Jak is like filling up a rusted, beat up 1996 civic with 93 octane gas. It's just a waste of money.

Except Jak is a better screener, finisher, passer and defender. Things that will help the youth improve.

I love JV with all my heart, one of my favs of all time. But I think the extra 9 million in salary here is better spent on a center who does more to help the young guys develop.

I've said it before, if having Jak here is the linchpin to these guys developing well, or poorly. We should blow it up right now and trade everything.

No teams fortunes should ever be at grave risk due to a player of his calibre.

This isn't a discussion of Jak vs JV. Jak is better, period. But Jak has more trade value, and that is something we need over whatever marginal developmental improvements people think he provides.

It's not linchpin, but he is better for their development. And at this point, I'd rather have the guy that helps more than the guy that doesn't. The win +/- isn't really THAT much different, maybe a couple of wins Jak's way. And his trade value isn't so outstanding that were bringing back much.

[Scase]

Except Jak is a better screener, finisher, passer and defender. Things that will help the youth improve.

I love JV with all my heart, one of my favs of all time. But I think the extra 9 million in salary here is better spent on a center who does more to help the young guys develop.

I've said it before, if having Jak here is the linchpin to these guys developing well, or poorly. We should blow it up right now and trade everything.

No teams fortunes should ever be at grave risk due to a player of his calibre.

This isn't a discussion of Jak vs JV. Jak is better, period. But Jak has more trade value, and that is something we need over whatever marginal developmental improvements people think he provides.

It's not linchpin, but he is better for their development. And at this point, I'd rather have the guy that helps more than the guy that doesn't. The win +/- isn't really THAT much different, maybe a couple of wins Jak's way. And his trade value isn't so outstanding that were bringing back much.

I expect the 5th-8th worst records to be pretty crowded, like 1-3 games apart. So yeah, those few wins might be the difference between a top 5 pick and getting 9th. We likely pick up a few more wins vs sub .500 teams this year, and drop a couple more against above .500 teams.

The only team that will be far and away terrible compared to everyone else are the Wiz. Everything in the 2nd to 8th worst are likely going to be within 5-7 games of each other. We tanked our hearts out at the end of last year, and we were 5 games out from being the 3rd worst team in the league. That's the difference from a 67% chance at a top 5 pick, and a 37% chance at a top 4 pick.

Every win counts.

[Chandan]

I don't think those guys are ready to play heavy NBA minutes. Even guys at the top of draft are rarely ready to play consistent minutes in year 1. Mogbo might not even be a C longterm. He's probably a smallball C in certain situations, but going up against guys like Jokic, Embiid, Vuc etc in year 1 is pretty unrealistic for a 2nd round pick. Carlson was undrafted and will probably spend the year in the gleague.

Who you have in that spot does matter because it will impact IQ in the PnR, it will impact Barnes' position defensively. If you want to maximize the young talent you do have, you can't have a big block hole in that spot.

I assume you are talking about Jokic and embiid during the regular season right? So what if we lose by 10 instead of 20?

It's not about losing, it's about playing guys not ready for those roles and damaging their development, which also impacts the players around them.

OKC is one of the youngest team in the league (or the youngest). Most of their roster has never played with a "true center" until now and yet they all showed remarkable improvement.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

This team at full strength with Yak was killing it, I feel like folks on here are just afraid to see that again because their egos around being wrong about the trade will be bruised.

[Chandan]

This team at full strength with Yak was killing it, I feel like folks on here are just afraid to see that again because their egos around being wrong about the trade will be bruised.

trust me, that's not a concern at all.

[Scase]

This team at full strength with Yak was killing it, I feel like folks on here are just afraid to see that again because their egos around being wrong about the trade will be bruised.

I'm sure when we limp to a crappy record next year you will be bringing this same energy right? And totally not moving the goalposts, right?

[LoveMyRaps]

If you can get a 2025 or 2026 first round pick for him, you do it ten times out of ten. No hesitation.