Will Poeltl be traded?

[Scase]

The trade shouldn't get justified by this signing. But looking it purely as contract value in a vacuum, I'd rather have Poeltl's deal (and play) on the books, fwiw. IH looked kinda bad in the playoffs (though I'm not convinced Poeltl would've been much better). He got played off the floor on the defensive side of the ball especially.

In any case, I'd be more than fine with trading Poeltl just so we can finally get off this topic lol.

For me its all about cost + fit vs just cost. Yes, Jak at 20 is better than JV at 10, but for a team trying to win, not ours. Jak would be pretty valuable to a contender, not so much a rebuild he doesn't even want to be part of.

So, by your admission, as a trade chip, Poeltl at 20 should be worth more than JV at 10, at least in terms of trade asset to a contender. (and let's be clear, there a next to zero non-contenders giving up anything for a C). So....wouldn't you rather have the better trade asset at this point?

Right now? Sure, but an asset is only worth what they bring back, so if they don't trade him, who cares how valuable he is.

Overall? No, I'd rather have JV. Because that would mean we just signed him to that contract, never traded 3 picks for Jak, etc etc. This has been said over and over, Jak the player is/was never the issue, the trade is/was.

[Shakril]

For me its all about cost + fit vs just cost. Yes, Jak at 20 is better than JV at 10, but for a team trying to win, not ours. Jak would be pretty valuable to a contender, not so much a rebuild he doesn't even want to be part of.

So, by your admission, as a trade chip, Poeltl at 20 should be worth more than JV at 10, at least in terms of trade asset to a contender. (and let's be clear, there a next to zero non-contenders giving up anything for a C). So....wouldn't you rather have the better trade asset at this point?

Right now? Sure, but an asset is only worth what they bring back, so if they don't trade him, who cares how valuable he is.

Overall? No, I'd rather have JV. Because that would mean we just signed him to that contract, never traded 3 picks for Jak, etc etc. This have been said over and over, Jak the player is/was never the issue, the trade is/was.

The trade was not an issue at all. it just Masai didnt do what tankers wanted him to do, and since then its all about bitching about the trade, Poeltl or both. It is undeniable that poeltl is more worth than a 1 Frp in year 2024. The spurs couldnt give it away quick enough themselves, thats what they were thinking about this years draft. Raptors havent lost anything. They still have the player that is worth 2 FRP, or 1 FRP and 2 SRP. Considering what in the league is paid for diverse players in trades, its not that much actually.

[will]

I would like to think so.

Then again, there is no one at the 5 spot.

[Sandman88]

Not unless it yields us Ingram or Lauri

[Scase]

So, by your admission, as a trade chip, Poeltl at 20 should be worth more than JV at 10, at least in terms of trade asset to a contender. (and let's be clear, there a next to zero non-contenders giving up anything for a C). So....wouldn't you rather have the better trade asset at this point?

Right now? Sure, but an asset is only worth what they bring back, so if they don't trade him, who cares how valuable he is.

Overall? No, I'd rather have JV. Because that would mean we just signed him to that contract, never traded 3 picks for Jak, etc etc. This have been said over and over, Jak the player is/was never the issue, the trade is/was.

The trade was not an issue at all. it just Masai didnt do what tankers wanted him to do, and since then its all about bitching about the trade, Poeltl or both. It is undeniable that poeltl is more worth than a 1 Frp in year 2024. The spurs couldnt give it away quick enough themselves, thats what they were thinking about this years draft. Raptors havent lost anything. They still have the player that is worth 2 FRP, or 1 FRP and 2 SRP. Considering what in the league is paid for diverse players in trades, its not that much actually.

Yes, I'm sure to trust your opinion on this, the most unbiased Jak fan.

For the billionth time, the issue was that it cost us 3 picks, it cost us a better pick in 2023, it made us keep Siakam for another year, etc.

Just because you aren't willing to admit that stuff, doesn't make it not true. But sure man, Jak is worth 2 FRPs in the lotto.

[ConSarnit]

So, by your admission, as a trade chip, Poeltl at 20 should be worth more than JV at 10, at least in terms of trade asset to a contender. (and let's be clear, there a next to zero non-contenders giving up anything for a C). So....wouldn't you rather have the better trade asset at this point?

Right now? Sure, but an asset is only worth what they bring back, so if they don't trade him, who cares how valuable he is.

Overall? No, I'd rather have JV. Because that would mean we just signed him to that contract, never traded 3 picks for Jak, etc etc. This have been said over and over, Jak the player is/was never the issue, the trade is/was.

The trade was not an issue at all. it just Masai didnt do what tankers wanted him to do, and since then its all about bitching about the trade, Poeltl or both. It is undeniable that poeltl is more worth than a 1 Frp in year 2024. The spurs couldnt give it away quick enough themselves, thats what they were thinking about this years draft. Raptors havent lost anything. They still have the player that is worth 2 FRP, or 1 FRP and 2 SRP. Considering what in the league is paid for diverse players in trades, its not that much actually.

Explain why you think the trade was still a good one for this team.

2023: lost in the play-in, dropped 6-7 spots in the draft
2024: didn't make the play-in or playoffs, lost our pick completely

So not only did the trade damage our lottery draft position in back to back drafts, we have seen ZERO playoff success during that time. That trade was literally the worst of both worlds. As for Poeltl's trade value, you've provided no evidence that he's worth what we gave up. Conversely, every recent trade for a center of Poeltl's caliber has been for less than what we paid. None of Allen (2021), Capela (2020) or Adams (2021) ended up returning a lotto 1st to the teams that traded them. It is exceedingly rare that a player of Poeltl's ilk (somewhere between the 10th-20th best center) returns a lottery pick, which, even in a bad draft, is what we just gave up.

Just answer this: if the trade itself was not the issue, what benefit have we gotten from the Poeltl trade this far?

[ConSarnit]

We tanked hard but still lost our pick that turned into #8 but somehow Hartenstein's signing is making the Poeltl deal look better and better? The lengths at which people continue to go to defend that trade is impressive.

The 3rd year on Hartenstien's contract is non-guaranteed, so consider it a 2-yr $56M committment. It's a slight overpay but OKC needed interior defense & rebounding and Hartenstien fits the bill nicely and they didn't have to give up assets to get him.

OKC was one of the few possible trade destinations for Poeltl to try and get one or more of their many draft picks, but this well is now dry. From this POV, Hartenstein signing makes the Poeltl trade look worse because it takes the OKC option off the table.

The mental gymnastics are incredible justifying the Poeltl deal. We got worse following the deal. It’s not Poeltl’s fault but the trade did not help us.

it was the wrong deal at the time, but maybe as time moves on, it could improve, and we could swing a deal for someone looking for a big

We could, but using Hartenstein's deal as a comp doesn't work. Hartenstein getting overpaid doesn't mean that the return we might get for Poeltl is going to increase. All the Hartenstein deal means is that if OKC is looking to move him for value in the next 2 years they aren't going to have many suitors. We would do better relative to them trading Hartenstein but it hasn't made Poeltl any more valuable in a trade. This might (slightly) actually hurt Poeltl's value given that one of the teams we often talked about as a landing spot for Poeltl (OKC) now has zero need for Poeltl. The Hartenstein signing reduced our trade partner options. If OKC/NOP/MEM were the 3 playoff level teams needing a C, one of those options is now gone.

[ArthurVandelay]

I’ll preface this by stating I would be absolutely shocked if Poeltl was traded. I don’t think it will happen but I really hope to see it happen. Not because Poeltl isn’t a good basketball player, but because he doesn’t fit this team anymore. He was brought in to play under Nurse with FVV, Siakam, and OG…who are all gone.

New Orleans is interesting. They have no starting C after trading Nance and letting Val walk. The FA market is, umm, weak. They are looking to trade Ingram but want a C in return. Pelicans reportedly like Harrison Barnes and as everyone knows Kings are peddling Barnes/Huerter/draft capital package.

New Orleans started playing Zion as small ball 5 at times last year. Starting together and staggering minutes would create an interesting pairing with Poeltl.

Raptors would be playing KO at C. They could look to sign another stretch 5 in 21yo Tristan Vukcevic. Raptors would be murdered all season in the middle but that might not be a bad thing in the big picture (lottery balls). They’d have a year to focus purely on Darko’s offence after the first half of last season had a mismatched roster and the second half featured injuries and tanking,

Kings: Ingram
Pelicans: Poeltl, Barnes, 2029 1st from Sac
Raptors: Huerter, 2025 1sr from NO, 2027 1st from Sac

[Rapsalot]

I believe I originally said no however if LM is on the table that could change.

Lauri M + John Collins + Walker K. = Jak P + Bruce brown + 2025 first + 2026 Indy first + 2027 first + 2030 first


Jak is a better player than Walker K but timeline fits BBQ. John C slightly better than Bruce but contract flexibility and transfer for other assets favors Bruce. The picks mostly for Lauri. With them being 3 quick and easy to move high value in at least 2 strong drafts. Paying the top 4 basically you have 5 mil and below for everyone else.

[ArthurVandelay]

Watching summer league lends support to my belief there are solid future role players in Raptors pipeline. Sadly there is little elite talent. There isn’t a guy who can get a bucket at will, even in SL let alone NBA regular season and definitely not playoffs.

If the goal is to eventually play with a stretch 5, they need to trade Poeltl before the season starts. Scottie won’t be the C. You’ve got KO and Carlsen. Ainge made a great point at end of last year that the focus of a season doesn’t have to be wins and loses. The Raptors can focus on how they want to play as they continue to bring in the talent to match that focus.

This draft is not just Flagg, there is VJ and Bailey and Traore who project as elite. Who knows who else rises as the next year unfolds.

To be clear I’m not crapping on current roster or the young guys drafted this year. I like the team and the future. It’s just obvious they need an alpha scorer and with 4 possibly sitting at the top of the draft, the Raptors need to get it done.

I don’t put much stock in the talk they need to win next year or risk losing Scottie or IQ. Those guys are locked up for 6 and 5 years respectively. Having to tear it all down again in 2-3 seasons, or worse being mediocre 4 years down the road, is the real threat, not being lottery in 25 and/or 26.

[wegotthabeet]

I would trade him, but hard to find a fit that makes sense, that has the contract filler and a pick. I think he has value as a rotation big on a contender though, it’s just where really?

[Scase]

Watching summer league lends support to my belief there are solid future role players in Raptors pipeline. Sadly there is little elite talent. There isn’t a guy who can get a bucket at will, even in SL let alone NBA regular season and definitely not playoffs.

If the goal is to eventually play with a stretch 5, they need to trade Poeltl before the season starts. Scottie won’t be the C. You’ve got KO and Carlsen. Ainge made a great point at end of last year that the focus of a season doesn’t have to be wins and loses. The Raptors can focus on how they want to play as they continue to bring in the talent to match that focus.

This draft is not just Flagg, there is VJ and Bailey and Traore who project as elite. Who knows who else rises as the next year unfolds.

To be clear I’m not crapping on current roster or the young guys drafted this year. I like the team and the future. It’s just obvious they need an alpha scorer and with 4 possibly sitting at the top of the draft, the Raptors need to get it done.

I don’t put much stock in the talk they need to win next year or risk losing Scottie or IQ. Those guys are locked up for 6 and 5 years respectively. Having to tear it all down again in 2-3 seasons, or worse being mediocre 4 years down the road, is the real threat, not being lottery in 25 and/or 26.

Yeah, but if we trade him, everyone says that Scottie's development will go to hell. I'm sorry sir, but Jak is the only thing holding this entire team together.

[greekman]

for markanen yes. for picks no.

[Snappycoocoo]

Jakob ain't going anywhere