Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Beal for Midds discussed last year

[DingleJerry]

I don't have any existing Gary Trent Jr. agendas but apart from being good value on a minimum, would he be a markedly better fit for this team than Malik Beasley? I think of them as being in a similar tier. Is he a better defender?

Is a clear notch or two better overall as a player. Also a better defender, especially if he gets back to putting in better effort on it on a winning team along with likely needing to show it to get another big payday. He's not worth a 4/80-100 type deal if you're trying to win a title, but he's also way better than league min guys like Beasley

A player like GTJ, who was well below replacement level last year, isn't clearly above anyone.

Are you really opining that he didn't realize he needed to defend last year, to either help his team win, or to earn his next contract?

More likely, the guy who can't get 3 rebounds a game just isn't very competitive.

Yes, I don't its refuted by many that players give worse effort and perform worse in crap environments and situations. We've all seen GTJ play over the last 5 years and we just watched Beasley for a year, if you think Beasley is in the same ballpark I don't know what else can be said.

[Daver]

Is a clear notch or two better overall as a player. Also a better defender, especially if he gets back to putting in better effort on it on a winning team along with likely needing to show it to get another big payday. He's not worth a 4/80-100 type deal if you're trying to win a title, but he's also way better than league min guys like Beasley

A player like GTJ, who was well below replacement level last year, isn't clearly above anyone.

Are you really opining that he didn't realize he needed to defend last year, to either help his team win, or to earn his next contract?

More likely, the guy who can't get 3 rebounds a game just isn't very competitive.

Yes, I don't its refuted by many that players give worse effort and perform worse in crap environments and situations. We've all seen GTJ play over the last 5 years and we just watched Beasley for a year, if you think Beasley is in the same ballpark I don't know what else can be said.

Trent is way way better than beas on both sides of the ball.

[randy84]

I thought people wanted a defender with Dame? I don't mind Trent Jr. on a minimum, but Wright is a better defender.

[ShootingtheJ]

A player like GTJ, who was well below replacement level last year, isn't clearly above anyone.

Are you really opining that he didn't realize he needed to defend last year, to either help his team win, or to earn his next contract?

More likely, the guy who can't get 3 rebounds a game just isn't very competitive.

Yes, I don't its refuted by many that players give worse effort and perform worse in crap environments and situations. We've all seen GTJ play over the last 5 years and we just watched Beasley for a year, if you think Beasley is in the same ballpark I don't know what else can be said.

Trent is way way better than beas on both sides of the ball.

They're both bad. Trent is the better defender, but still isn't a good defender. Beasley is significantly better at finishing at the rim, where GTJ is like Donte there. Beasley participates in rebounding, Trent can't be bothered with that. Neither can dribble or pass.

[DingleJerry]

I thought people wanted a defender with Dame? I don't mind Trent Jr. on a minimum, but Wright is a better defender.

Yea he is not ideal for that reason. But for league min you'd be getting a steal. And then, he just has to be pushed to try at it like he did when he was young. I think we all would agree Beas really did try his balls off at D, I'd assume moreso than he ever did before in his career, but he just didn't have the physical ability. GTJ does at least have it in his physical toolset.

[ShootingtheJ]

I thought people wanted a defender with Dame? I don't mind Trent Jr. on a minimum, but Wright is a better defender.

Yea he is not ideal for that reason. But for league min you'd be getting a steal. And then, he just has to be pushed to try at it like he did when he was young. I think we all would agree Beas really did try his balls off at D, I'd assume moreso than he ever did before in his career, but he just didn't have the physical ability. GTJ does at least have it in his physical toolset.

Beasley was consistently the last or 2nd last guy back in transition defense. That's pure laziness. If Trent comes he, I'll guarantee he stands around watching while the opponent grabs rebounds. These guys never change.

Delon Wright can do everything we need at guard, but we still don't have a mobile big.

[DingleJerry]

I thought people wanted a defender with Dame? I don't mind Trent Jr. on a minimum, but Wright is a better defender.

Yea he is not ideal for that reason. But for league min you'd be getting a steal. And then, he just has to be pushed to try at it like he did when he was young. I think we all would agree Beas really did try his balls off at D, I'd assume moreso than he ever did before in his career, but he just didn't have the physical ability. GTJ does at least have it in his physical toolset.

Beasley was consistently the last or 2nd last guy back in transition defense. That's pure laziness. If Trent comes he, I'll guarantee he stands around watching while the opponent grabs rebounds. These guys never change.

Delon Wright can do everything we need at guard, but we still don't have a mobile big.

Yea but getting Trent doesn't mean we lose Wright. Certainly a case to be made to start Wright, not gonna deny that over him. But essentially, if you can swap Pat for Trent doing whatever cap gymnastics are needed you'd be a fool not to do it

[ShootingtheJ]

Yea he is not ideal for that reason. But for league min you'd be getting a steal. And then, he just has to be pushed to try at it like he did when he was young. I think we all would agree Beas really did try his balls off at D, I'd assume moreso than he ever did before in his career, but he just didn't have the physical ability. GTJ does at least have it in his physical toolset.

Beasley was consistently the last or 2nd last guy back in transition defense. That's pure laziness. If Trent comes he, I'll guarantee he stands around watching while the opponent grabs rebounds. These guys never change.

Delon Wright can do everything we need at guard, but we still don't have a mobile big.

Yea but getting Trent doesn't mean we lose Wright. Certainly a case to be made to start Wright, not gonna deny that over him. But essentially, if you can swap Pat for Trent doing whatever cap gymnastics are needed you'd be a fool not to do it

Part of landing Trent is promising him the starting job. I don't want to go through that again

[DingleJerry]

Beasley was consistently the last or 2nd last guy back in transition defense. That's pure laziness. If Trent comes he, I'll guarantee he stands around watching while the opponent grabs rebounds. These guys never change.

Delon Wright can do everything we need at guard, but we still don't have a mobile big.

Yea but getting Trent doesn't mean we lose Wright. Certainly a case to be made to start Wright, not gonna deny that over him. But essentially, if you can swap Pat for Trent doing whatever cap gymnastics are needed you'd be a fool not to do it

Part of landing Trent is promising him the starting job. I don't want to go through that again

Who knows about that. Promising him 25 mins is the same thing though, and he knows Mids is gonna miss 20 games (and Dame at least 10) where he'd be the obvious starter. And starting him the first 3 weeks and then saying it isn't working (if it isn't) can happen too.

but yea if it becomes a stickler about it before signing, well maybe he doesn't have the attitude you want and move on. Because part of his fit is banking on him sacrificing and focusing on D more than he has been, if he's having that me first stuff before getting there well ok then.

ETA: Essentially, you tell him good luck finding a good team with a chance at title with a worse G/Wing rotation than MKE, if you can't carve out 25-30 mins here its on you. For 3 starting spots (plus 2-3 backups you need) you have only 2 clear starting caliber players and both will miss lots of games. Then a career borderline guy in Wright, washed Pat and like 6 rookie types. If he doesn't like it, go play for charlotte

[Badgerlander]

Yea he is not ideal for that reason. But for league min you'd be getting a steal. And then, he just has to be pushed to try at it like he did when he was young. I think we all would agree Beas really did try his balls off at D, I'd assume moreso than he ever did before in his career, but he just didn't have the physical ability. GTJ does at least have it in his physical toolset.

Beasley was consistently the last or 2nd last guy back in transition defense. That's pure laziness. If Trent comes he, I'll guarantee he stands around watching while the opponent grabs rebounds. These guys never change.

Delon Wright can do everything we need at guard, but we still don't have a mobile big.

Yea but getting Trent doesn't mean we lose Wright. Certainly a case to be made to start Wright, not gonna deny that over him. But essentially, if you can swap Pat for Trent doing whatever cap gymnastics are needed you'd be a fool not to do it

2031 unprotected 1st? Nope

[RiotPunch]

Obviously *high*lights, but when GTJ is locked in he is actually quite a nuisance defensively.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Reminds me of Donte in that he has great hands/anticipation/timing on-ball and in passing lanes generating steals/blocks. Not here saying he is the POA defender we need, but him for the min could work pretty dang well with our starting group. He is worlds better than Beasley on defense from lateral movement, screen navigation to generating turnovers. If we are doubling down on funneling to Brook, might as well get a guy that can catapult Giannis into transition.

[Daver]

I thought people wanted a defender with Dame? I don't mind Trent Jr. on a minimum, but Wright is a better defender.

Yea he is not ideal for that reason. But for league min you'd be getting a steal. And then, he just has to be pushed to try at it like he did when he was young. I think we all would agree Beas really did try his balls off at D, I'd assume moreso than he ever did before in his career, but he just didn't have the physical ability. GTJ does at least have it in his physical toolset.

Dudes only 25 he still is young

[Daver]

Obviously *high*lights, but when GTJ is locked in he is actually quite a nuisance defensively.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Reminds me of Donte in that he has great hands/anticipation/timing on-ball and in passing lanes generating steals/blocks. Not here saying he is the POA defender we need, but him for the min could work pretty dang well with our starting group. He is worlds better than Beasley on defense from lateral movement, screen navigation to generating turnovers. If we are doubling down on funneling to Brook, might as well get a guy that can catapult Giannis into transition.

Read somewhere where he was in top 10 in deflections so i guess thsts a positive

[midranger]

Trent is a high volume 3 point shooter/maker who isn’t a travesty on defense. He brings nothing else, but that’s enough for a minimum contract player, and his skill set could be useful here in our starting lineup where he’ll be a quaternary ball handler at most. Shoot 39-40% on 8 attempts per game a get in the way on defense.

I seriously can’t believe the expectations for bottom of the barrel signings here. Complete players don’t sign minimum deals at 25 years old.

[old skool]

I can't imagine Trent Jr. would be happy playing in Milwaukee on a minimum contract.

As I hear it, Trent Jr. had a decent season at age 25 with a salary of $18.5-million. He was looking for a raise on a multi-year deal, but Toronto was offering a pay cut to $15-million or so. He can't be happy, finding himself without a generous contract and maybe being forced to take scraps. The thought of playing for the minimum - and if he has the best season of his career - he might be able to get the kind of contract that he expected this summer?

I don't see how Trent Jr would view a minimum deal single season in Milwaukee as anything other than an embarrassing rebuke that he does not deserve.

[RiotPunch]

I can't imagine Trent Jr. would be happy playing in Milwaukee on a minimum contract.

As I hear it, Trent Jr. had a decent season at age 25 with a salary of $18.5-million. He was looking for a raise on a multi-year deal, but Toronto was offering a pay cut to $15-million or so. He can't be happy, finding himself without a generous contract and maybe being forced to take scraps. The thought of playing for the minimum - and if he has the best season of his career - he might be able to get the kind of contract that he expected this summer?

I don't see how Trent Jr would view a minimum deal single season in Milwaukee as anything other than an embarrassing rebuke that he does not deserve.

There will be a lot more money to go around next summer with the cap almost certainly going up 10%. It's a matter of preference on his part. Take the most money he can now in a dried up market and maybe no guaranteed role, or bet on himself in an ideal role/situation to secure a much bigger bag next summer. It's certainly worth considering for him.

[Balls2TheWalls]

I seriously can’t believe the expectations for bottom of the barrel signings here. Complete players don’t sign minimum deals at 25 years old.

Yep. Trent Jr is a slam dunk on this contract.

[old skool]

I can't imagine Trent Jr. would be happy playing in Milwaukee on a minimum contract.

As I hear it, Trent Jr. had a decent season at age 25 with a salary of $18.5-million. He was looking for a raise on a multi-year deal, but Toronto was offering a pay cut to $15-million or so. He can't be happy, finding himself without a generous contract and maybe being forced to take scraps. The thought of playing for the minimum - and if he has the best season of his career - he might be able to get the kind of contract that he expected this summer?

I don't see how Trent Jr would view a minimum deal single season in Milwaukee as anything other than an embarrassing rebuke that he does not deserve.

There will be a lot more money to go around next summer with the cap almost certainly going up 10%. It's a matter of preference on his part. Take the most money he can now in a dried up market and maybe no guaranteed role, or bet on himself in an ideal role/situation to secure a much bigger bag next summer. It's certainly worth considering for him.

Something will be the "best situation" for him. That does not mean that he will be happy taking a 75% pay cut to prove that he deserves the kind of deal that he feels he deserved this summer. He bet (wrongly) that he could do better than the $15-million per that Toronto reportedly was willing to give him. I obviously don't know his state of mind, but I would expect him to view a minimum deal as the worst possible offseason outcome.

[RiotPunch]

I can't imagine Trent Jr. would be happy playing in Milwaukee on a minimum contract.

As I hear it, Trent Jr. had a decent season at age 25 with a salary of $18.5-million. He was looking for a raise on a multi-year deal, but Toronto was offering a pay cut to $15-million or so. He can't be happy, finding himself without a generous contract and maybe being forced to take scraps. The thought of playing for the minimum - and if he has the best season of his career - he might be able to get the kind of contract that he expected this summer?

I don't see how Trent Jr would view a minimum deal single season in Milwaukee as anything other than an embarrassing rebuke that he does not deserve.

There will be a lot more money to go around next summer with the cap almost certainly going up 10%. It's a matter of preference on his part. Take the most money he can now in a dried up market and maybe no guaranteed role, or bet on himself in an ideal role/situation to secure a much bigger bag next summer. It's certainly worth considering for him.

Something will be the "best situation" for him. That does not mean that he will be happy taking a 75% pay cut to prove that he deserves the kind of deal that he feels he deserved this summer. He bet (wrongly) that he could do better than the $15-million per that Toronto reportedly was willing to give him. I obviously don't know his state of mind, but I would expect him to view a minimum deal as the worst possible offseason outcome.

I see what you mean. Yeah, he might want to change agents or take a long look in the mirror. He played this about as poorly as he could have. Once accepting that, anyone with eyes can see the opportunity to flourish next to Giannis/Dame/Khris to prove to the rest of the league that he's worth what he thought he was worth.

[ILC]

Trent is fine on the minimum but I think he is holding out hope some team does something dumb to clear their tpmle or he would’ve signed already

Oh and will barton

What's the Bucks apron situation?

Is there any way they could do a S&T for him sending out Pat and another smaller salary like Marjon or something and giving GTJ a 3 year deal in the 10-13m range? Strictly from the cap/apron law standpoint.