RGM GOAT Debate Thread

[OdomFan]

The player who made a impact on their best teammates becoming a star next to them, and a impact on their coach going down in history as one of the all time greats. Leading their team the way its supposed to be led, meaning making sure the whole team are playing at the highest capability to hold on to leads. Playing good defense as a squad so that they win the games, make the playoffs, win the playoff series, and then bring home the championship trophy.

1. Michael Jordan - Elite at both ends of the floor, did all the above. Trusted a rookie Phil and the triangle offenses creator Tex Winters. Going on to make the hof, and helping his best teammate Pippen get there as well. Helping Phil get in as a coach. Argably the greatest coach of all time. Top 3 at the most.

Stopping multiple top level leaders from ever getting a ring on his watch.

2. Tim Duncan - Excellent Scorer, but very unselfish. Helping rookie coach Greg Popovich go down history as a top 3 coach all time. Helping Manu and Parker develop into a star. Helping Veteran teammate David Robinson accomplish what he couldn't without him. A ring.

Stopping the Heat from 3 repeating, stopping the Pistons from repeating, and stopping Nash and those awesome Suns from ever getting 1. Dirk and co got 1 on their watch, but they made it tough.

3. Shaq - He and Kobe Bryant built an amazing squad together in the late 90s-early 00s. Helping add more value to Phil Jacksons resume, helping guys like Mitch Richmond and Glen Rice get a ring. Kobe became a star next to the big man. Shaq is only not 2nd because of the break up in LA over differences and cash. For being inconsistent at times. Showing up out of shape, and burning bridges with teams.

Honorable Mentions: Larry Bird and Magic are tied imo. Forever linked because of their rivarly saving the NBA from continuing on. As a hoops fan we should all appreciate them for that.

Kobe Bryant. Great player. fun to watch, amazing leader when things are going good, but also a guy with a big ego that is a major reason for the 2004 loss to Detroit.

Hakeem Olajuwon - One of the best total packages in the history of hoops who led his team to back to back championships. Some people discredit his rings because MJ wasn't around for both, but I don't buy into that bs. You play who you play, and make the best of things. The West of the 90s was tough, and he came out of it with back to back championships. That is spectacular imo.

Kareem. Amazing Resume, but not the best leader. He and Magic built something great together in LA, but the fact is Magic took over that squad and became the face of the franchise. I can't put Kareem higher because of that.


Disqualified: Lebron - why? Taking the easy way out constantly. Joining up with stars, and leaving them behind as soon as they lose either right away, or after 2 seasons. Never helping any young teammate grow into a star. No memorable head coach. Good player, but terrible leader.

[OdomFan]

I'm still shocked Jokic and his fans and all those people on here who have said his one of the best centers and can be even talked about right after Jordan, haven't helped Jokic In the poll, just Imagain If I did this thread after Denver won lmao.

He still has plenty of time to rise up on this poll. They didnt win this past season, but still played at a top level, and ended up losing to a very good young Timberwolves team. I dont think its worth knocking him for that. They lost fair and square. Now lets see what happens next.

[hauntedcomputer]

The player who made a impact on their best teammates becoming a star next to them, and a impact on their coach going down in history as one of the all time greats. Leading their team the way its supposed to be led, meaning making sure the whole team are playing at the highest capability to hold on to leads. Playing good defense as a squad so that they win the games, make the playoffs, win the playoff series, and then bring home the championship trophy.

All of this and no Bill Russell, who leads in all these categories by a country mile.

[Werdiknight]

Kobe, Curry, Jokic just don't belong in this poll. As great as they were/ are, they don't have an actual case being the GREATEST. As often those threads seem very recency biased.

Where is Wilt? Where is Hakeem? Heck, where are Larry and Shaq?! All 4 are at least a tier above Kobe, Curry and Jokic (in his case at least for now).

Besides all of that in my eyes there is no GOAT debate. There may be one from rank 2 downwards to rank 10 - but there is just no one CLOSE to MJ (as much as I hated him for what he did in his playing days, esp. 1996).

[KembaWalker]

I dunno if you guys read the PC board threads but my goodness they are in summer meltdown mode. 1000 word MJ fanfiction pieces. Truly one of the stranger corners of the web

[bledredwine]

I dunno if you guys read the PC board threads but my goodness they are in summer meltdown mode. 1000 word MJ fanfiction pieces. Truly one of the stranger corners of the web

Worst forum of all time- also the funniest, in that regard.

[SlimShady83]

Kobe, Curry, Jokic just don't belong in this poll. As great as they were/ are, they don't have an actual case being the GREATEST. As often those threads seem very recency biased.

Where is Wilt? Where is Hakeem? Heck, where are Larry and Shaq?! All 4 are at least a tier above Kobe, Curry and Jokic (in his case at least for now).

Besides all of that in my eyes there is no GOAT debate. There may be one from rank 2 downwards to rank 10 - but there is just no one CLOSE to MJ (as much as I hated him for what he did in his playing days, esp. 1996).

Reading will answer your questions ... Anymore posts on - Where's blah blah In poll will be Ignored.

Feel free to talk about anyone you want though. It's the purpose of the thread, that and the hope to stop other "Goat Debate" threads coming In daily.

[Werdiknight]

Kobe, Curry, Jokic just don't belong in this poll. As great as they were/ are, they don't have an actual case being the GREATEST. As often those threads seem very recency biased.

Where is Wilt? Where is Hakeem? Heck, where are Larry and Shaq?! All 4 are at least a tier above Kobe, Curry and Jokic (in his case at least for now).

Besides all of that in my eyes there is no GOAT debate. There may be one from rank 2 downwards to rank 10 - but there is just no one CLOSE to MJ (as much as I hated him for what he did in his playing days, esp. 1996).

Reading will answer your questions ... Anymore posts on - Where's blah blah In poll will be Ignored.

Feel free to talk about anyone you want though. It's the purpose of the thread, that and the hope to stop other "Goat Debate" threads coming In daily.

Posting that you will ignore someone's post just because you seemly have another oppinion is ABSOLUTELY unnecessary. Just like those threads. If you want to do so just do it. In my eyes those mentioned in my post just have a far superior case than those three guys from the poll. So just ignore it if you don't like ir or take your own advice and make a stand for why it isn't the case. Plain and simple.

[HighFlyer23]

Lebron is disqualified from any GOAT debate by choking against the mavs in 2011. Then choking again in 2014 against the spurs. Cramp gate lol. More losses in the finals against winning. I don’t give a rat’s ass about his stats on those finals losses. Facts are, he gets his stats almost a triple double the first 3 quarters, then disappears in the 4th, or the last 5mins of the game when being down. I have MJ as the goat.

I don't know any GOAT of any sport that failed as bad as lebron in 2011

And while being on a superteam at that with a top 5 player on your team and a top 10 positional player on your team

Tom Brady in 2007 failed much harder than LeBron did in 2011. The undefeated Patriots losing to the wild card Giants isn’t just the biggest upset in NFL history, it’s one of the biggest upsets in the history of all major pro sports. Miami on the other hand shouldn’t have even been the betting favorites, but they were because people weren’t paying any attention at the time. Dallas was 6-2 against Miami that season while sporting a better team, being better coached and deeper. You mention the top five player and the top ten positional player, but there’s a reason you didn’t mention anyone else, because Miami didn’t have anyone else. They were a super team, yes. But they weren’t a great one.

LeBron’s performance was worse, don’t get me wrong. But Tom Brady losing was a greater failure.

It was 2008 and Lebron played worse according to your own statement so you defeat your own point

[Iwasawitness]

I don't know any GOAT of any sport that failed as bad as lebron in 2011

And while being on a superteam at that with a top 5 player on your team and a top 10 positional player on your team

Tom Brady in 2007 failed much harder than LeBron did in 2011. The undefeated Patriots losing to the wild card Giants isn’t just the biggest upset in NFL history, it’s one of the biggest upsets in the history of all major pro sports. Miami on the other hand shouldn’t have even been the betting favorites, but they were because people weren’t paying any attention at the time. Dallas was 6-2 against Miami that season while sporting a better team, being better coached and deeper. You mention the top five player and the top ten positional player, but there’s a reason you didn’t mention anyone else, because Miami didn’t have anyone else. They were a super team, yes. But they weren’t a great one.

LeBron’s performance was worse, don’t get me wrong. But Tom Brady losing was a greater failure.

It was 2008 and Lebron played worse according to your own statement so you defeat your own point

This is such a short sighted reply, and I shouldn’t even bother, but I will anyways. A greater failure isn’t based entirely on performance. The circumstances at hand matter. In this case, LeBron played poorly against a team he struggled against in the regular season, with an imperfect roster that didn’t fit his strengths. Again, to people who were actually paying attention (you clearly not being one of them), it makes perfect sense that he struggled.

Tom Brady on the other hand was playing with arguably his best team ever and a historically great offense. And yet despite this, he not only couldn’t overcome the Giants below average defense (well, it was until they started to click late into the season), but he got outplayed by Eli Manning of all people. The saving grace for the Giants (and the reason they ultimately were able to win) were their offensive line, which made Tom Brady’s life hell all game long.

In case you don’t see the difference here, LeBron’s Heat were in fact a super team, but there wasn’t anything particularly special about them. They had an MVP, a top five player and an all star caliber player… and then that was it. The rest of the team beyond that was pathetic. They were beatable, as evidenced by their losing record against .500 teams that season. As I mentioned before, they were favorites in the finals but they shouldn’t have been. Dallas was the better team overall and were better coached. And they won both regular season meetings, of which LeBron struggled in. The writing should’ve been on the wall, and for people like myself who predicted Dallas would win, it was.

The Giants on the other hand in no way shape or form were a better team than New England. The 2008 Patriots were a historically great team on both sides of the field. There’s a reason they were 18-0 going in. But one favorable matchup allowed New York the chance to win and they ended up doing just that. People like to mention the fact that NY almost beat the Pats in the regular season, but my counter to that is that’s still a game where they managed to score 38 points in the first place. Here, they got limited to 14.

With all of that in mind, yes, Tom Brady losing here is definitely a bigger failure. LeBron’s performance was worse from a statistical standpoint, but even in that regard it’s pretty close between the two. I do love how LeBron gets so much criticism for that performance, but Brady for whatever reason gets a pass for blowing a perfect season.

[OdomFan]

The player who made a impact on their best teammates becoming a star next to them, and a impact on their coach going down in history as one of the all time greats. Leading their team the way its supposed to be led, meaning making sure the whole team are playing at the highest capability to hold on to leads. Playing good defense as a squad so that they win the games, make the playoffs, win the playoff series, and then bring home the championship trophy.

All of this and no Bill Russell, who leads in all these categories by a country mile.

Well I don't consider Russell even the best of his own era, or own position. So that's that. Respect to him for paving the way, but tons have surpassed him long ago if you ask me. Put him on your own list if thats what you want to do.

[HighFlyer23]

Tom Brady in 2007 failed much harder than LeBron did in 2011. The undefeated Patriots losing to the wild card Giants isn’t just the biggest upset in NFL history, it’s one of the biggest upsets in the history of all major pro sports. Miami on the other hand shouldn’t have even been the betting favorites, but they were because people weren’t paying any attention at the time. Dallas was 6-2 against Miami that season while sporting a better team, being better coached and deeper. You mention the top five player and the top ten positional player, but there’s a reason you didn’t mention anyone else, because Miami didn’t have anyone else. They were a super team, yes. But they weren’t a great one.

LeBron’s performance was worse, don’t get me wrong. But Tom Brady losing was a greater failure.

It was 2008 and Lebron played worse according to your own statement so you defeat your own point

This is such a short sighted reply, and I shouldn’t even bother, but I will anyways. A greater failure isn’t based entirely on performance. The circumstances at hand matter. In this case, LeBron played poorly against a team he struggled against in the regular season, with an imperfect roster that didn’t fit his strengths. Again, to people who were actually paying attention (you clearly not being one of them), it makes perfect sense that he struggled.

Tom Brady on the other hand was playing with arguably his best team ever and a historically great offense. And yet despite this, he not only couldn’t overcome the Giants below average defense (well, it was until they started to click late into the season), but he got outplayed by Eli Manning of all people. The saving grace for the Giants (and the reason they ultimately were able to win) were their offensive line, which made Tom Brady’s life hell all game long.

In case you don’t see the difference here, LeBron’s Heat were in fact a super team, but there wasn’t anything particularly special about them. They had an MVP, a top five player and an all star caliber player… and then that was it. The rest of the team beyond that was pathetic. They were beatable, as evidenced by their losing record against .500 teams that season. As I mentioned before, they were favorites in the finals but they shouldn’t have been. Dallas was the better team overall and were better coached. And they won both regular season meetings, of which LeBron struggled in. The writing should’ve been on the wall, and for people like myself who predicted Dallas would win, it was.

The Giants on the other hand in no way shape or form were a better team than New England. The 2008 Patriots were a historically great team on both sides of the field. There’s a reason they were 18-0 going in. But one favorable matchup allowed New York the chance to win and they ended up doing just that. People like to mention the fact that NY almost beat the Pats in the regular season, but my counter to that is that’s still a game where they managed to score 38 points in the first place. Here, they got limited to 14.

With all of that in mind, yes, Tom Brady losing here is definitely a bigger failure. LeBron’s performance was worse from a statistical standpoint, but even in that regard it’s pretty close between the two. I do love how LeBron gets so much criticism for that performance, but Brady for whatever reason gets a pass for blowing a perfect season.

This is the dumbest **** I've ever read

Lebron had Dwyane Wade on his team

A top 5 player at that time

Brady lost a fluke game ... Lebron lost a 7 game series

[SlimShady83]

Kobe, Curry, Jokic just don't belong in this poll. As great as they were/ are, they don't have an actual case being the GREATEST. As often those threads seem very recency biased.

Where is Wilt? Where is Hakeem? Heck, where are Larry and Shaq?! All 4 are at least a tier above Kobe, Curry and Jokic (in his case at least for now).

Besides all of that in my eyes there is no GOAT debate. There may be one from rank 2 downwards to rank 10 - but there is just no one CLOSE to MJ (as much as I hated him for what he did in his playing days, esp. 1996).

Reading will answer your questions ... Anymore posts on - Where's blah blah In poll will be Ignored.

Feel free to talk about anyone you want though. It's the purpose of the thread, that and the hope to stop other "Goat Debate" threads coming In daily.

Posting that you will ignore someone's post just because you seemly have another oppinion is ABSOLUTELY unnecessary. Just like those threads. If you want to do so just do it. In my eyes those mentioned in my post just have a far superior case than those three guys from the poll. So just ignore it if you don't like ir or take your own advice and make a stand for why it isn't the case. Plain and simple.

You asked a very simple question in regards to why someone isn't on the poll? I gave you simple answer. I've explained not only through out the thread but also updated page 1 for this question.

Peace out.

[Iwasawitness]

This is the dumbest **** I've ever read

Lebron had Dwyane Wade on his team

A top 5 player at that time

Brady lost a fluke game ... Lebron lost a 7 game series

Yeah, I knew I shouldn't have wasted my time. I don't know why I continue to do this with people who lack critical thinking skills. We've seen a team with the two best players in the entire league get gentlemen swept by a team with no all stars or top ten player on it but for some reason you can't comprehend the idea that when a team goes up against a better team, they can and usually will lose the series. Giants/Pats is a valid comparison because at the end of the day, the Pats were a much better team from top to bottom. The Miami Heat weren't.

Three players don't make a team. It's about time you start learning that.

[Iwasawitness]

I dunno if you guys read the PC board threads but my goodness they are in summer meltdown mode. 1000 word MJ fanfiction pieces. Truly one of the stranger corners of the web

I don't really know what your fascination is with taking petty shots with them at any chance you can get, but I will say that based on what I've seen from your posts, you wouldn't last very long on that forum if you tried. In fact the trend I've noticed is that the only people who really dislike the PC forum are butt hurt MJ fans who quickly realized they aren't smart enough to deal with what's being dished out in those threads and bounce.

Worst forum of all time- also the funniest, in that regard.

Case and point.

[HighFlyer23]

This is the dumbest **** I've ever read

Lebron had Dwyane Wade on his team

A top 5 player at that time

Brady lost a fluke game ... Lebron lost a 7 game series

Yeah, I knew I shouldn't have wasted my time. I don't know why I continue to do this with people who lack critical thinking skills. We've seen a team with the two best players in the entire league get gentlemen swept by a team with no all stars or top ten player on it but for some reason you can't comprehend the idea that when a team goes up against a better team, they can and usually will lose the series. Giants/Pats is a valid comparison because at the end of the day, the Pats were a much better team from top to bottom. The Miami Heat weren't.

Three players don't make a team. It's about time you start learning that.

You're dumbest moron I've ever encountered on this forum

You write paragraphs and walls of absolutely meaningless text

Tom Brady doesn't have as much of an impact as lebum did on his respective team. Individual players have more impact in basketball compared to football.

Any other superstar would've won in that series if they replaced your trash fraud lebron.. Even 5'10" Allen Iverson would've hoisted the trophy and he was retired by then. Hell even a lesser star or even a role player would've led to a Miami Heat series win if substituting for lebron.

Shawn Marion called him a bitch in that series after scoring on him and that's exactly what he is. Embarrassed by Jason Terry of all people. Lebron's daddy Wade played fine and so did Bosh, it was solely lebron who caused the Miami Heat to lose. Wade even got into lebron's face and chest and still he failed.

That's a strike for the clear-cut personal attack.

[Gregoire]

I dunno if you guys read the PC board threads but my goodness they are in summer meltdown mode. 1000 word MJ fanfiction pieces. Truly one of the stranger corners of the web

Oh, yes, this fanboys lobby of LeBron is so frustrated that they did even ban me from their forum They dont want to hear the truth about their idol loser....

[WarriorGM]

Kobe, Curry, Jokic just don't belong in this poll. As great as they were/ are, they don't have an actual case being the GREATEST. As often those threads seem very recency biased.

Where is Wilt? Where is Hakeem? Heck, where are Larry and Shaq?! All 4 are at least a tier above Kobe, Curry and Jokic (in his case at least for now).

Besides all of that in my eyes there is no GOAT debate. There may be one from rank 2 downwards to rank 10 - but there is just no one CLOSE to MJ (as much as I hated him for what he did in his playing days, esp. 1996).

You haven't given a single reason to support your position other than "I say so".

[KembaWalker]

I dunno if you guys read the PC board threads but my goodness they are in summer meltdown mode. 1000 word MJ fanfiction pieces. Truly one of the stranger corners of the web

I don't really know what your fascination is with taking petty shots with them at any chance you can get, but I will say that based on what I've seen from your posts, you wouldn't last very long on that forum if you tried. In fact the trend I've noticed is that the only people who really dislike the PC forum are butt hurt MJ fans who quickly realized they aren't smart enough to deal with what's being dished out in those threads and bounce.

This is literally a PC board post summed up. Whenever someone who isn’t a total weirdo posts about how weird they are they get all upset, accuse you of being less intelligent than them and start trying to bait you with personal insults. Why are you guys like this?

“You dont like my LeBron fanfiction? You don’t like my 25 metrics that are all derived from the same handful of garbage numbers that I’m using to act like my POV is the consensus? Guess you’re just too stupid to understand”

Bro, nobody thinks you guys are clever lol, you’re literally the quarantined rejects of basketball discussion

[bledredwine]

I dunno if you guys read the PC board threads but my goodness they are in summer meltdown mode. 1000 word MJ fanfiction pieces. Truly one of the stranger corners of the web

I don't really know what your fascination is with taking petty shots with them at any chance you can get, but I will say that based on what I've seen from your posts, you wouldn't last very long on that forum if you tried. In fact the trend I've noticed is that the only people who really dislike the PC forum are butt hurt MJ fans who quickly realized they aren't smart enough to deal with what's being dished out in those threads and bounce.

This is literally a PC board post summed up. Whenever someone who isn’t a total weirdo posts about how weird they are they get all upset, accuse you of being less intelligent than them and start trying to bait you with personal insults. Why are you guys like this?

“You dont like my LeBron fanfiction? You don’t like my 25 metrics that are all derived from the same handful of garbage numbers that I’m using to act like my POV is the consensus? Guess you’re just too stupid to understand”

Bro, nobody thinks you guys are clever lol, you’re literally the quarantined rejects of basketball discussion

Just don't reply.

When he says something that reads like a child's post, just leave it up there, knowing that it looks bad to everyone else.
That's what I do with him and any posters who post in a similar manner. They've already lost as soon as they insult because it shows they're upset and have nothing to say... basically conceding with "I've got nothing" (literally imagine this as that's what it means)
It's a defense mechanism- they've lost.

And honestly? When you get used to it, it feels really good and there's science behind why.

Andrew Huberman (neuroscientist) found in his studies that when someone posts an insult or eggs someone on via the internet, they expect a reply which will give them a surge of dopamine.

Don't give them the surge of dopamine, and take pride in taking the high road while they take the dumpster-covered underground roads. That's why multiple posters have called me out for not replying- they can't stand being ignored

Consider only replying if someone has something to say pertaining to the topic at hand. Otherwise, they'll bring you to that level.
It took me far too long to realize that- lots of time saved with satisfaction.

Pardon the verbose reply, but it'll help you thoroughly enjoy these interactions like it has me. And you won't even have to partake in the foolishness.