Caitlin Clark is like the WNBA equivalent to Oscar Robertson or Wilt Chamberlain

[MrDollarBills]

I am happy however about this:

CC is bringing new fans into the W and it's been so much fun having more people to chat with about the Fever and the league in general.

This is just the beginning. This is the Renaissance Period of women's hoops, because if you think CC is awesome, there are some real killers lurking in the talent pipeline.

Come for CC, but stick around. The fun hasn't even started yet

[MrDollarBills]

I kinda doubt CC’s off-ball ever develops to a Curry equivalent level, because, well, that means you’re screwing up your offense for no reason.

She’s 10x the passer of anyone else on the Fever (tho that wouldn’t be true on every team), so while you could run her around off-ball and thru screens, you’re still utilizing her second best skill instead of her best one. The Fever just need more finishers — Boston can’t do everything.

Yep and to your point, the Fever are most dangerous when CC rebounds and pushes the pace. Last night's game was a masterclass in passing

[DOT]

This is the Renaissance Period of women's hoops

I can't read the word "Renaissance" without hearing it like this lol

Watch on YouTube

[MrDollarBills]

This is the Renaissance Period of women's hoops

I can't read the word "Renaissance" without hearing it like this lol

Watch on YouTube

Cunk is amazing I dunno how she keeps a straight face

[cdubbz]

She's been going nuts lately. I haven't been watching but my assumption is she's finally adjusting to professional game speed?

I hope she becomes the unanimous WNBA GOAT.

Yeah she's adjusting. I also keep bringing up to anyone who will listen that I think it matters that she really didn't have an off season.

Girls legs have to be gassed.

The beginning of the season she was gassed I bet -- they had the Fever playing so many games in little amount of time. Now her games are spread out and gets a month break and shes cookin.

[Doctor MJ]

Yeah guys I dunno maybe let her be herself and not heap all these crazy comparisons on her. She's standing on her own two feet

I with MrDB here. I don't think comparisons like this are helpful.

It'd be one thing if Clark played like those guys, but she doesn't at all. Meanwhile there are modern guys she actually is similar to - you could say she's something of a cross between Curry & Nash. That's really cool!

I get that folks are trying to say what an outlier she's going to be, but honestly, there's a lot we can't yet know about how the arms race between Clark and opponents ends up going which will determine where she ends up stacking up on GOAT list. What we can do is talk about the specifics of her game, and connect those to other players they strike us of.

Yeah if someone were to say, "man CCs game reminds me of a cross between Nash/Harden"' I would be like hell yeah, maybe even more dynamic in some aspects. I don't think her off ball game is where it needs to be to be compared to Steph. At least not today.

But please, can we let her be herself before we start invoking Wilt? That's not fair to her at all.

She is Caitlin Clark, one of one.

Agree with you about Wilt and I understand what you're saying about Steph's off-ball game. I'll put it like this:

There were 2 major influences on Steph Curry: Steve Nash & Reggie Miller.

When Curry first took primacy in Golden State, he was playing like something of a shoot-first Nash, but with the arrival of Kerr he transitioned to be more of a Miller-type rover.

I would suggest that Clark is kinda like what Curry would have been had he stuck closer to the Nash role, except that Clark is a better playmaker than Curry (but I wouldn't put her in Nash's league, I don't think we've seen anyone Nash's size or smaller from either sex that can match him).

Would Harden be a better example than Curry for Clark? Understandable thought, but there is a distinction:

Clark speeds up the game, while Harden slows it down.

A Harden-type wants to slow the game to a crawl so he can control everything and gradually bend the defense to allow either a shot for himself or a teammate, while also allowing himself to rest because he's carrying too much weight to run all the time.

Nash & Curry on the other hand are all about using their motor to attack the defense quickly before they can recover. I'd say Clark thinks similarly.

[Ice Man]

To that point, Clark is at her very best when the game is stretched to the point of playground. She has a speed of thought combined with a fearlessness that overwhelms defenses. That's when she gets easy layups, passes for easy baskets at the rim, and her most dangerous 3 point looks.

She and AB did a nice job on the P&R last night in the half court, the best that I have seen them do. But still, the more frantic the game, the better for her. Which, yeah, is anti-Harden. (Or anti-Butler, who fought with Fred Hoiberg in part because Fred wanted him to play fast, and Jimmy wanted to walk the ball up the court and survey the defense.)

[Godymas]

i think you should compare her to someone more contemporary

oscar and west or wilt BUILT the nba and were groundbreaking in what was basically a nascent industry/sport.

cc is only putting up numbers if it's numbers you want to talk about. big numbers were and always will be a basketball staple

cc's impact seems more along the line of a curry bird magic mj sorta thing

i mean you literally described why I am comparing her to oscar and wilt.

She is building the WNBA and being groundbreaking for the sport.

In terms of her actual game, the Nash/Curry comp someone else made is spot on. She has the vision in transition offense like Suns era Nash and she has the pure shooting ability and off ball movement of Curry.

I doubt Clark would agree with the notion that she is solely building the WNBA. She stands on the shoulders of the women/people that came before her, such as her idol, Maya Moore.

This league didn't start two months ago.

right, like Dolph Schayes, Mikan, Pettit, Cousy

it really does help the notion

[Lalouie]

i think you should compare her to someone more contemporary

oscar and west or wilt BUILT the nba and were groundbreaking in what was basically a nascent industry/sport.

cc is only putting up numbers if it's numbers you want to talk about. big numbers were and always will be a basketball staple

cc's impact seems more along the line of a curry bird magic mj sorta thing

i mean you literally described why I am comparing her to oscar and wilt.

She is building the WNBA and being groundbreaking for the sport.

In terms of her actual game, the Nash/Curry comp someone else made is spot on. She has the vision in transition offense like Suns era Nash and she has the pure shooting ability and off ball movement of Curry.

she's bringing eyes, much like bird and magic

she's not "building" the wnba

so we have to agree to disagree

[MrDollarBills]

I with MrDB here. I don't think comparisons like this are helpful.

It'd be one thing if Clark played like those guys, but she doesn't at all. Meanwhile there are modern guys she actually is similar to - you could say she's something of a cross between Curry & Nash. That's really cool!

I get that folks are trying to say what an outlier she's going to be, but honestly, there's a lot we can't yet know about how the arms race between Clark and opponents ends up going which will determine where she ends up stacking up on GOAT list. What we can do is talk about the specifics of her game, and connect those to other players they strike us of.

Yeah if someone were to say, "man CCs game reminds me of a cross between Nash/Harden"' I would be like hell yeah, maybe even more dynamic in some aspects. I don't think her off ball game is where it needs to be to be compared to Steph. At least not today.

But please, can we let her be herself before we start invoking Wilt? That's not fair to her at all.

She is Caitlin Clark, one of one.

Agree with you about Wilt and I understand what you're saying about Steph's off-ball game. I'll put it like this:

There were 2 major influences on Steph Curry: Steve Nash & Reggie Miller.

When Curry first took primacy in Golden State, he was playing like something of a shoot-first Nash, but with the arrival of Kerr he transitioned to be more of a Miller-type rover.

I would suggest that Clark is kinda like what Curry would have been had he stuck closer to the Nash role, except that Clark is a better playmaker than Curry (but I wouldn't put her in Nash's league, I don't think we've seen anyone Nash's size or smaller from either sex that can match him).

Would Harden be a better example than Curry for Clark? Understandable thought, but there is a distinction:

Clark speeds up the game, while Harden slows it down.

A Harden-type wants to slow the game to a crawl so he can control everything and gradually bend the defense to allow either a shot for himself or a teammate, while also allowing himself to rest because he's carrying too much weight to run all the time.

Nash & Curry on the other hand are all about using their motor to attack the defense quickly before they can recover. I'd say Clark thinks similarly.

You're right. I keep thinking of Harden when I watch CC is because offensively she just focuses on her step back threes and lay up drive. She definitely pushes and plays at a way faster, more exciting pace.

I would love for her to add a mid range pull up J, and a high money floater like how Sabrina uses to score consistently in the paint. I think she'd be unstoppable if she added those two pieces to her bag.

And to your point, maybe learning some Steph/Reggie/RIP Hamilton type off ball movement would help as well.

Scary to think that this is the worst she'll be in the pros for the next several seasons.

[MrDollarBills]

i mean you literally described why I am comparing her to oscar and wilt.

She is building the WNBA and being groundbreaking for the sport.

In terms of her actual game, the Nash/Curry comp someone else made is spot on. She has the vision in transition offense like Suns era Nash and she has the pure shooting ability and off ball movement of Curry.

I doubt Clark would agree with the notion that she is solely building the WNBA. She stands on the shoulders of the women/people that came before her, such as her idol, Maya Moore.

This league didn't start two months ago.

right, like Dolph Schayes, Mikan, Pettit, Cousy

it really does help the notion

Yep. This is a process that started with players who will fade into history. It's disrespectful to say that when people like Sheryl Swoopes, Becca Lobo, Lisa Leslie, Cynthia Cooper and others are with us right now. They walked so CC can run.

That's like saying Michael Jordan built the NBA, when the names you mentioned, Oscar, Wilt, Jerry, Dr. J, Moses, Kareem etc all did the heavy lifting to get us here.

[MrDollarBills]

To that point, Clark is at her very best when the game is stretched to the point of playground. She has a speed of thought combined with a fearlessness that overwhelms defenses. That's when she gets easy layups, passes for easy baskets at the rim, and her most dangerous 3 point looks.

She and AB did a nice job on the P&R last night in the half court, the best that I have seen them do. But still, the more frantic the game, the better for her. Which, yeah, is anti-Harden. (Or anti-Butler, who fought with Fred Hoiberg in part because Fred wanted him to play fast, and Jimmy wanted to walk the ball up the court and survey the defense.)

I think it will be interesting to see how the Fever functions in the playoffs. You figure the games will be grindy and more half court. Teams will work to take away CC's pushing in transition.

That's funny about Hoiberg and Jimmy. I don't think there is one right way to play, but a team's style should suit the personnel, stemming from the best player on downward

[Ice Man]

I would love for her to add a mid range pull up J, and a high money floater like how Sabrina uses to score consistently in the paint. I think she'd be unstoppable if she added those two pieces to her bag.

Her near-term goals should be to rest her legs so that she can hit her open 3s, and to cut out 2-3 terrible passes per game. If she did that, she'd be at 20/6/8, 60% TS% with 4 TOs per game, rather than 17/6/8, 57% with 6 TOs per game. Such an improvement would make her clearly be the best guard in the league on offense, no debate.

On the first point, her distance shooting right now is meh. Not at her college level. When she started in the league she wasn't hitting 3s at a good clip because she couldn't shake free and because defenses were so much keying on her long-distance shot. They were doubling her at 25 feet. But now that she's more dangerous passing than shooting from distance, and she is figuring out how to get free, she's getting open looks. And she's bricking. That needs fixing -- but I assume that resting her legs will do that.

Then during the off season she can starting working on the midrange stuff. Which she will do, she knows she needs to do more of that now that she's in the WNBA.

[ellobo]

I with MrDB here. I don't think comparisons like this are helpful.

It'd be one thing if Clark played like those guys, but she doesn't at all. Meanwhile there are modern guys she actually is similar to - you could say she's something of a cross between Curry & Nash. That's really cool!

I get that folks are trying to say what an outlier she's going to be, but honestly, there's a lot we can't yet know about how the arms race between Clark and opponents ends up going which will determine where she ends up stacking up on GOAT list. What we can do is talk about the specifics of her game, and connect those to other players they strike us of.

Yeah if someone were to say, "man CCs game reminds me of a cross between Nash/Harden"' I would be like hell yeah, maybe even more dynamic in some aspects. I don't think her off ball game is where it needs to be to be compared to Steph. At least not today.

But please, can we let her be herself before we start invoking Wilt? That's not fair to her at all.

She is Caitlin Clark, one of one.

Agree with you about Wilt and I understand what you're saying about Steph's off-ball game. I'll put it like this:

There were 2 major influences on Steph Curry: Steve Nash & Reggie Miller.

When Curry first took primacy in Golden State, he was playing like something of a shoot-first Nash, but with the arrival of Kerr he transitioned to be more of a Miller-type rover.

I would suggest that Clark is kinda like what Curry would have been had he stuck closer to the Nash role, except that Clark is a better playmaker than Curry (but I wouldn't put her in Nash's league, I don't think we've seen anyone Nash's size or smaller from either sex that can match him).

Would Harden be a better example than Curry for Clark? Understandable thought, but there is a distinction:

Clark speeds up the game, while Harden slows it down.

A Harden-type wants to slow the game to a crawl so he can control everything and gradually bend the defense to allow either a shot for himself or a teammate, while also allowing himself to rest because he's carrying too much weight to run all the time.

Nash & Curry on the other hand are all about using their motor to attack the defense quickly before they can recover. I'd say Clark thinks similarly.

With regard to Clark's off-ball movement, I do think it's worth it to have her play off ball on a certain number of possessions and have her run off screens to get catch and shoot opportunities. She shoots a very high percentage on those shots and she has tremendous gravity off ball, although the Fever haven't figured out how to exploit it effectively.

But I also think current Sabrina would be a good model for her to study. Liberty plays often start with Sabrina giving the ball up to someone at the top of the key, cutting away, and then coming back to receive it again, often using screens off ball to get free coming back to the ball. It works really well to keep defenses from just loading up on her or on an initial high pick and roll. After she gives the ball up, Sabrina works really hard to get it back, making sharp cuts, her teammates help her with screens, and they are patient letting her work back to the ball. By contrast, when Clark gives the ball up, she often gets passive and just drifts around, her teammates don't give her a lot of help getting back to the ball, and they often just swing the ball to the opposite side, taking Clark completely out of the possession.

[Ghetto Gospel]

idk, she already does so much on offense and works so hard when she's on the ball, that when she's off, she should be able to just hang out in the corner and rest. just space the court for your team and let kelsey mitchell do kelsey mitchell things for 5-10 minutes/game

[Harry Palmer]

Is Sides as bad as rumoured, or just a victim of the moment? Still only watching highlights so have no idea.

[Ghetto Gospel]

Is Sides as bad as rumoured, or just a victim of the moment? Still only watching highlights so have no idea.

i'm going to start by saying she has had an extremely tough job trying to integrate a rookie guard into the starting lineup and historically that has been extremely difficult as rookie guards have always struggled when entering the W.

i think the biggest issue is her player rotation and that at times, she tries to control the action a little bit too much, overcoaches and just needs to let caitlin cook sometimes.

see clip below: at this point in the 1st quarter, the offense was rolling and caitlin had 7 assists. you can see in the beginning of the clip, she calls for a screen but sides blows the entire thing up, wants them to run her play, directs traffic and it's a turnover from the backup center trying to make a pass to the cutting guard, and caitlin is frustrated. personally, i think the plays that the coach runs involves players that aren't very good decision makers and frankly, she's putting these players in a position to fail.

i think the fans just want to see caitlin cook.

[Harry Palmer]

Is Sides as bad as rumoured, or just a victim of the moment? Still only watching highlights so have no idea.

i'm going to start by saying she has had an extremely tough job trying to integrate a rookie guard into the starting lineup and historically that has been extremely difficult as rookie guards have always struggled when entering the W.

i think the biggest issue is her player rotation and that at times, she tries to control the action a little bit too much, overcoaches and just needs to let caitlin cook sometimes.

see clip below: at this point in the 1st quarter, the offense was rolling and caitlin had 7 assists. you can see in the beginning of the clip, she calls for a screen but sides blows the entire thing up, wants them to run her play, directs traffic and it's a turnover from the backup center trying to make a pass to the cutting guard, and caitlin is frustrated. personally, i think the plays that the coach runs involves players that aren't very good decision makers and frankly, she's putting these players in a position to fail.

i think the fans just want to see caitlin cook.

Much appreciated.

[MrDollarBills]

idk, she already does so much on offense and works so hard when she's on the ball, that when she's off, she should be able to just hang out in the corner and rest. just space the court for your team and let kelsey mitchell do kelsey mitchell things for 5-10 minutes/game

I think she should rest on defense and hunt for boards tbh. I put CC on the easiest match up on D.

If she wants to unlock another gear offensively she needs to work on off ball awareness, get stronger, and develop on the 2nd level like Sabrina did

People are caught up with the rookie craze but Ionescu has quietly established herself as an elite guard that can score at all 3 levels and facilitate

[rmontro]

One will get better with time, and the other will hopefully get better too.

Get better, or be replaced...
Not sure how much faith I have in Lin Dunn though.