PDX / DEN

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Re: PDX / DEN 

Post#21 » by DiegoChara » Fri Jul 19, 2024 4:52 pm

BelgradeNugget wrote:OK I don't want to make this I'm a Denver fan, watched them I know. Here is a net rating of Nuggets 2019-20 players. MPJ was rookie than. Grant started 24 games and played big minutes.

PLAYERS NETRTG
Will Barton 5.8
Jamal Murray 5.3
Nikola Jokic 4.5
Gary Harris 3.4
Jerami Grant -2.1
Paul Millsap 9.3
Monte Morris 0.8
Torrey Craig -5.7
Malik Beasley 1.9
Mason Plumlee -1.0
Michael Porter 0.7

Things were the same in playoffs. Grant's net rating -5.5 to MPJ 5.9.

https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612743/players-advanced?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=MIN
https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612743/players-advanced?Season=2019-20&dir=D&sort=NET_RATING

Things haven't changed since

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203924
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1629008?SeasonType=Regular+Season


Barton>Jokic.
As I’ve been trying to tell people for YEARS.
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Re: PDX / DEN 

Post#22 » by BelgradeNugget » Fri Jul 19, 2024 5:07 pm

DiegoChara wrote:
BelgradeNugget wrote:OK I don't want to make this I'm a Denver fan, watched them I know. Here is a net rating of Nuggets 2019-20 players. MPJ was rookie than. Grant started 24 games and played big minutes.

PLAYERS NETRTG
Will Barton 5.8
Jamal Murray 5.3
Nikola Jokic 4.5
Gary Harris 3.4
Jerami Grant -2.1
Paul Millsap 9.3
Monte Morris 0.8
Torrey Craig -5.7
Malik Beasley 1.9
Mason Plumlee -1.0
Michael Porter 0.7

Things were the same in playoffs. Grant's net rating -5.5 to MPJ 5.9.

https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612743/players-advanced?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=MIN
https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612743/players-advanced?Season=2019-20&dir=D&sort=NET_RATING

Things haven't changed since

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203924
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1629008?SeasonType=Regular+Season


Barton>Jokic.
As I’ve been trying to tell people for YEARS.

There is this legend that all the way back to 2019-20 Jokic was bad defender, and he has improved significantly since...

Nuggets DEFRTG

Paul Millsap 104.5
Malik Beasley 106.6
Will Barton 106.9
Gary Harris 107.1
Jamal Murray 107.7
Mason Plumlee 108.6
Nikola Jokic 108.9
Monte Morris 109.3
Jerami Grant 112.3
Michael Porter 112.4
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Re: PDX / DEN 

Post#23 » by Texas Chuck » Fri Jul 19, 2024 5:09 pm

BelgradeNugget wrote:But I saw you responded to my post how it was a home run for Denver. Wasn't it a little arrogant from your side to try to explain to Denver fan something about curent and ex Denver players in that way. Because when I get to this forums I try to learn about other teams from their fans and to explain something about Denver team to fans of other teams.



It's arrogant for me to express my opinion? I mean what? That's what this board is about.

So I can't talk about how I view players if they play for Denver? Because only Denver fans know these players? If someone sounds arrogant here it would be the guy who thinks that....
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Re: PDX / DEN 

Post#24 » by BelgradeNugget » Fri Jul 19, 2024 5:18 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
BelgradeNugget wrote:But I saw you responded to my post how it was a home run for Denver. Wasn't it a little arrogant from your side to try to explain to Denver fan something about curent and ex Denver players in that way. Because when I get to this forums I try to learn about other teams from their fans and to explain something about Denver team to fans of other teams.



It's arrogant for me to express my opinion? I mean what? That's what this board is about.

So I can't talk about how I view players if they play for Denver? Because only Denver fans know these players? If someone sounds arrogant here it would be the guy who thinks that....

It was arrogant for you to express your opinion in a way you did it. Some people argue in a good nature. Some people are here to lecture the others because they know. The way you responded to my post was from the 2nd group. I hope your ego is not big enough to be able to accept frendly opinnion :wink:
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Re: PDX / DEN 

Post#25 » by Tim Lehrbach » Fri Jul 19, 2024 6:00 pm

I don't know how this would ever work, but I'd actually love to see Simons, Thybulle, and Timelord in Denver. They could play their appropriate roles rather than being asked to do too much. Simons potentially makes a tremendous third option who can punish defenses by either sticking open shots or cooking on his own with Jokic and Murray drawing attention; Thybulle would only see wide open corner threes and would help considerably with perimeter defense; Williams, pending availability, gives Jokic a breather and fortifies the defense too.

Contracts are of course the problem because MPJ needs to come the other way, which as discussed may be undesirable for both sides. But I'd practically give those three to Denver to find out how they'd fit and perform.
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Re: PDX / DEN 

Post#26 » by Norm2953 » Fri Jul 19, 2024 6:00 pm

It'd be interesting if Portland/Denver could get together on another trade for the front offices
have done a lot of business over the years.

Portland has 4 centers on the roster and with the injury to Holmes, something small like Reath to
Denver for a future SRP would make some sense.
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Re: PDX / DEN 

Post#27 » by Walton1one » Fri Jul 19, 2024 6:17 pm

Actually, Simons to DEN could work, that was my initial thought

Simons\Thybulle\Reath (or Walker\Banton\Murray) for MPJ\Cancar (or Jordan or another player in that range) +31' 1st
OR remove Reath and DEN has smalls saving off cap OR include Nnaji instead and save more space or add Walker to that deal as well and save medium space, lots of permeations could work.

The thought as to WHY for DEN was to keep up in the WC arms race, replace most\all of MPJ's production and gain some needed depth to offset loss of KCP, which they can achieve both internally (Braun\Strawther\Watson) and externally (Thybulle). I thought Reath makes sense as a decent\cheap veteran big, especially since Holmes is lost for the season.

Something like Simons\Thybulle\Reath (maybe Walker?) for MPJ\Nnaji & 31' 1st. The key for POR IMO would be having another team lined up to take MPJ, so they could gain another 1st, similar to what they did with Jrue Holiday.
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Re: PDX / DEN 

Post#28 » by BlazersBroncos » Fri Jul 19, 2024 6:20 pm

Walton1one wrote:Actually, Simons to DEN could work, that was my initial thought

Simons\Thybulle\Reath (or Walker\Banton\Murray) for MPJ\Cancar (or Jordan or another player in that range) +31' 1st
OR remove Reath and DEN has smalls saving off cap OR include Nnaji instead and save more space or add Walker to that deal as well and save medium space, lots of permeations could work.

The thought as to WHY for DEN was to keep up in the WC arms race, replace most\all of MPJ's production and gain some needed depth to offset loss of KCP, which they can achieve both internally (Braun\Strawther\Watson) and externally (Thybulle). I thought Reath makes sense as a decent\cheap veteran big, especially since Holmes is lost for the season.

Something like Simons\Thybulle\Reath (maybe Walker?) for MPJ\Nnaji & 31' 1st. The key for POR IMO would be having another team lined up to take MPJ, so they could gain another 1st, similar to what they did with Jrue Holiday.


I really dont think DEN is going to pivot and go small. Or run with a starting G rotation that is super low on defense.

And even if they did, I dont see them including a FRP in this deal unless we eat Zeke and even then, not sure.
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Re: PDX / DEN 

Post#29 » by JRoy » Fri Jul 19, 2024 6:22 pm

DiegoChara wrote:
BelgradeNugget wrote:OK I don't want to make this I'm a Denver fan, watched them I know. Here is a net rating of Nuggets 2019-20 players. MPJ was rookie than. Grant started 24 games and played big minutes.

PLAYERS NETRTG
Will Barton 5.8
Jamal Murray 5.3
Nikola Jokic 4.5
Gary Harris 3.4
Jerami Grant -2.1
Paul Millsap 9.3
Monte Morris 0.8
Torrey Craig -5.7
Malik Beasley 1.9
Mason Plumlee -1.0
Michael Porter 0.7

Things were the same in playoffs. Grant's net rating -5.5 to MPJ 5.9.

https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612743/players-advanced?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=MIN
https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612743/players-advanced?Season=2019-20&dir=D&sort=NET_RATING

Things haven't changed since

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203924
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1629008?SeasonType=Regular+Season


Barton>Jokic.
As I’ve been trying to tell people for YEARS.


Will is the People’s Champ
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Re: PDX / DEN 

Post#30 » by Walton1one » Fri Jul 19, 2024 6:24 pm

Simons is a clear upgrade on offense, defense is another issue however I could see him as 6th man, especially if Westbrook signs, and getting Thybulle a great D\iffy 3 player in the deal is a nice boost to the defense, also likely off the bench. As a 6th man, his defense is less an issue IMO than it is as a starter, and having Thybulle in a lineup next to him helps offset some of his shortcomings on defense (as does Simons offensive capabilities).
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Re: PDX / DEN 

Post#31 » by BelgradeNugget » Fri Jul 19, 2024 7:29 pm

I undrestand some Portland fans don't want MPJ because of his back problems, and injury concerns. He is also one dimensional offensively. He is not great point of attack defender while underated help defender. And we also tend to overate our players, be biased because we all love our teams. Nobody can watch every game of every team to form honest opinnion. And even then things are not as they seem sometimes. So I like to use numbers.

1. Simons offer

By EPM advanced stat he is THE WORST defender in the league. No 518 of 518 listed player. Is he realy the worst? Probobly not. On Lebron stats he is not the worst. No 561/572. I guess you understand why I would say no, thanks. I think he doesn't fit in Denver.

https://dunksandthrees.com/epm
https://www.bball-index.com/lebron-database/

2. Grant or MPJ

Lets see what numbers say. Lebron stat

2019-2020
MPJ 1.38 - 6th sf on the list
Grant -1.86 - 89th pf on the list

That is the year both played for Denver. Grand played more minutes and shared the court more with starters. His NETRTG was -2.1, to MPJ 0.7. In the playoffs Grant's NETRTG rating -5.5 to MPJ 5.9. Since then Grant went to Detroit and Portland. Let's compare their Lebron stat

2020-21
MPJ 2.89 - 5th sf on the list
Grant 0.20 - 19th sf on the list

2021-22
MPJ 0.41 - 15th sf on the list
Grant 0.33 - 26th pf on the list

2022-23
MPJ -0.18 - 18th sf on the list
Grant -0.45 - 40th pf on the list

2023-24
MPJ 0.86 - 9th sf on the list
Grant -1.98 - 102nd pf on the list

Now I know this stats can be noisy, but how much proof do we need to see the obvious? Do people undrestand why I wouldn't like Grant on Denver, and on top of that to send MPJ to Portland and on top of that LP 2031 1st?

3. Doup Reath to Denver for a future SRP

Yes I like this one. Any of DeAndre Jordan, Vlatko Cancar, Jalen Pickett and Hunter Tyson could be salary filler.
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Re: PDX / DEN 

Post#32 » by Tim Lehrbach » Fri Jul 19, 2024 8:17 pm

I think it is a perfectly reasonable position to not be excited about Grant, Simons, or anybody from the awful Blazers. Some talented players but no needle-movers in the whole lot, IMO.

I suggested Simons, Thybulle, and Williams because I think they'd be valuable role players for Denver, but as a package they aren't priced like role players, so yeah, I can see the aversion.
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Re: PDX / DEN 

Post#33 » by jbk1234 » Sat Jul 20, 2024 3:35 am

Norm2953 wrote:It'd be interesting if Portland/Denver could get together on another trade for the front offices
have done a lot of business over the years.

Portland has 4 centers on the roster and with the injury to Holmes, something small like Reath to
Denver for a future SRP would make some sense.


I'd be interested in an Emoni Bates for Reath deal in a S&T but he has something of a cult following among Cavs fans so that may not be popular.
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Re: PDX / DEN 

Post#34 » by TunaFish » Sat Jul 20, 2024 11:37 pm

Grant had a chance to stay in Denver but chose to go to Detroit where he can be the number one option. That didn't turn out so well.

As a result, Denver traded for Aaron Gordon, one of the best trades in Denver history and a force at power forward.

MPJ is the starting small forward on a team that won the NBA championship and along with Gordon provide exactly what Denver needs in the starting lineup.

Pass on this trade.
Canned in Denver.

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