Grant Trade?

[Wizenheimer]

Teams lowballing hoping to find us getting desperate will be surprised when they realize we actually don’t mind keeping him if necessary due to crap trade partners lol. Let the deal marinate. Some fake contender will get desperate

you know, it could easily not be a case of teams low-balling offers, and instead, Cronin high-balling demands

I haven't heard of any offers...just the rumors of Cronin demanding two first's for Grant; and considering the Laker situation, that's a ridiculous demand

[Walton1one]

You could be right, it definitely could be that Cronin is being unrealistic in what he wants back for Grant/Ant, and that is definitely troublesome/worrying if that is the case.

However, if this was strictly just a Cronin issue, then why hasn’t LAL been able to strike a deal with BRK, WAS or ORL?

All the chatter out there has been that all of these teams, including POR, are asking too much for their players, but lately there has been reports that LAL is only offering certain players in these deals and not any picks, and that the players that they are dangling, Rui\Dlo\Vincent\Vanderbilt have little to no value.

I think this may be a media driven/Klutch narrative to help Pelinka, and LAL is trying to get good players for cheap, and teams are not buying it.

[Pattycakes]

Teams lowballing hoping to find us getting desperate will be surprised when they realize we actually don’t mind keeping him if necessary due to crap trade partners lol. Let the deal marinate. Some fake contender will get desperate

you know, it could easily not be a case of teams low-balling offers, and instead, Cronin high-balling demands

I haven't heard of any offers...just the rumors of Cronin demanding two first's for Grant; and considering the Laker situation, that's a ridiculous demand

I love it. I truly love Cronins ability to both be patient, and have a backbone to anyone especially the Lakers.

He gets a lot of hate, but he’s filling that treasure chest quick.

Ant and Grant are both positive value guys, soon on affordable pay scales.. let both contracts expire before letting a contender take advantage of you.

Someone will crack, these have been the top 2 value role guys on the open trade market since the offseason started.

If you don’t have to mortgage your entire future, and still get a young 20-25 ppg guy, that’s gotta be an equally valuable opportunity as a team trading 5 1sts and an all star, just to get an overrated Paul George type

[Goldbum]

I don't think there is any way Gant gets us the 29' and 31' LAL picks. I would be happy with 29' and the rights to swap in 30. I'd even be willing to include a couple of seconds to make that work. I'm not hearing anything about Grant to LAL right now though.

[Wizenheimer]

Teams lowballing hoping to find us getting desperate will be surprised when they realize we actually don’t mind keeping him if necessary due to crap trade partners lol. Let the deal marinate. Some fake contender will get desperate

you know, it could easily not be a case of teams low-balling offers, and instead, Cronin high-balling demands

I haven't heard of any offers...just the rumors of Cronin demanding two first's for Grant; and considering the Laker situation, that's a ridiculous demand

I love it. I truly love Cronins ability to both be patient, and have a backbone to anyone especially the Lakers.

He gets a lot of hate, but he’s filling that treasure chest quick.

lol...c'mon man...you're making some big leaps of faith that a lot of us aren't willing to make yet

any "treasure chest" that has Ant-Grant-Ayton as the stars with Timelord's knees thrown on top has some major value issues. Sharpe and Scoot may both end up at all-star level, but both have an exceptionally long ways to go to get there. Scoot dropping to the 3rd pick when the Blazers had 3rd pick was just Cronin making the choice that about 25 other GM's would have made (Houston might be one of the exceptions)

Clingan might turn out to be a great addition, but I'd really like to see how he performs for a season or two against guys like Jokic, Embiid, Gobert, Sabonis, AD, Adebayo, etc. I know that when Clingan played in March Madness against Zach Edey, rather than against summer league cast-off bigs, for 3 games, Edey completely curb-stomped Clingan and stole his lunch

I liked what Cronin did at his first trade deadline in dismantling Olshey's dysfunctional roster by dumping CJ, Powell, RoCo,, Nance. That was long overdue and his parlay of CJ/Nance into Grant/Hart was great in my view considering the supposed need to surround Dame with vets

* but he started screwing up by hard-capping the Blazers with the Payton signing, then tried to salvage it by trading Payton for some 2nd's.

* he traded Hart for Thybulle and a 23rd pick. He may have wasted the pick on Kris Murray; then he matched an idiotic offer sheet to Thybulle which has hamstrung Portland's cap & tax options this season

* Dame asked to be traded (after, IMO, Cronin maneuvered him into the ask) and Cronin eventually traded the best player in franchise history for a mediocre package that had as the best assets 3 first round picks. But he then traded two of those picks for Deni Avdija; and that 2029 pick he traded could be a very high lottery pick. And, after all of Portland's long history with injury prone bigs, Cronin actually, idiotically, traded for another with Timelord, and big surprise: Williams played in 6 games before yet another season-ending surgery

* he re-signed Grant even after Dame asked for the trade, and he signed him for 60-70M more than any other team would have offered

and here you are giving him major credit for 'holding the line' on Grant trade offers without really knowing what the line is. And LOL at essentially saying letting their contracts expire before 'giving them away'...yeah, that will really fill up that treasure chest; kind of like how Portland's treasure chest got filled when Aldridge and Lopez walked

I think the jury hasn't started serious deliberations on Cronin yet. But if his 18 month track record turns out to be deliberately tanking into the worst draft in years, then holding onto low-value vets that means the Blazers fall outside of the top-10 in the best draft in years, he should have his butt fired

[Wizenheimer]

I don't think there is any way Gant gets us the 29' and 31' LAL picks. I would be happy with 29' and the rights to swap in 30. I'd even be willing to include a couple of seconds to make that work. I'm not hearing anything about Grant to LAL right now though.

there is only one way that would happen and that's if both picks are unprotected, lol, for Grant. If that is Cronin's ask he's being a bigger irrational nutjob than Daryl Morey on crank and Redbull

I don't think there's a chance Grant gets traded to the Lakers. Between Cronin's apparent intransigence and the Lakers 2nd apron problem, I think the trade is DOA

[Walton1one]

* but he started screwing up by hard-capping the Blazers with the Payton signing, then tried to salvage it by trading Payton for some 2nd's.

* he traded Hart for Thybulle and a 23rd pick. He may have wasted the pick on Kris Murray; then he matched an idiotic offer sheet to Thybulle which has hamstrung Portland's cap & tax options this season

* Dame asked to be traded (after, IMO, Cronin maneuvered him into the ask) and Cronin eventually traded the best player in franchise history for a mediocre package that had as the best assets 3 first round picks. But he then traded two of those picks for Deni Avdija; and that 2029 pick he traded could be a very high lottery pick. And, after all of Portland's long history with injury prone bigs, Cronin actually, idiotically, traded for another with Timelord, and big surprise: Williams played in 6 games before yet another season-ending surgery

* he re-signed Grant even after Dame asked for the trade, and he signed him for 60-70M more than any other team would have offered

and here you are giving him major credit for 'holding the line' on Grant trade offers without really knowing what the line is. And LOL at essentially saying letting their contracts expire before 'giving them away'...yeah, that will really fill up that treasure chest; kind of like how Portland's treasure chest got filled when Aldridge and Lopez walked

Talking about building up a war chest, seeing lots of tanking\rebuilding teams utilizing their cap space to acquire salary dumps and net draft assets in return. For a team like POR that struggles to get FA here, hard-capping the team in a rebuild is just really poor planning.

So to your point above, matching Thybulle, overpaying for Grant, taking on Williams and not re-routing him right away (or Brogdon for that matter) were all just poorly thought out decisions. But even then, Cronin has seemingly doubled down on his mistakes, by apparently being stubborn and asking for maximum return value for such players (even if it is not there).

I still hold out some hope that before the season starts he will have offloaded these players for some value, but if he holds onto them, then I have a much harder time defending his actions.

[Tim Lehrbach]

I neither agree with the position that Portland holds leverage in a Grant deal and will be rewarded for standing their ground nor share the belief that they have incentive to trade him now for whatever they can get. Rather, I think his worth in trade is exceeded by his on-court value. I know that is antithetical to the youth movement/asset gathering/tanking desired by most, but if it's the case that he's worth some bad salary ballast and a pretend/protected first rounder, or something like that, why move him at all?

We don't know what Grant can or will fetch in trade until it happens. I wouldn't assume Cronin is asking for the moon or that the moon will be shaken loose from a desperate team. The latter could happen, but I doubt it. The team is bereft of competent players to fill the available minutes, and Grant is one. Young players need to learn not only how to log minutes and stats but how to compete for wins in the NBA. That may not be worth a whole lot -- certainly not Grant at his current contract -- but it is worth more than a couple seconds or the like, if that's what happens to be on offer for Grant.

Altogether, I think it's wishful thinking that any of our veterans will be traded for an appealing haul, which means they may not be moved at all.

EDIT: I also realize this somewhat flies in the face of what I just posted about Simons on the Trade Board about Simons. The difference there is that I think Simons does not contribute to winning on this roster. The Blazers should put playmakers and defenders around the young backcourt pieces to help them grow and succeed.

[Walton1one]

His worth on court is probably worth more than his trade value, but his worth vs. POR rebuilding effort is not IMO. He is not a long term piece, and the best pick POR can hope to get by trading him (and Simons) is most likely their own in 2025. I am not convinced that either Sharpe or Scoot are the players that POR can build around, however they are both very young and the best that we have with that potential right now, at least until 2025, if POR can secure a high lottery pick.

Until this team has that player to build around, they should be acquiring assets to take as many chances at getting that player as they can. Yeah, maybe they can pull off a trade to get that player, unlikely, but that can happen, they surely are not getting that player in FA, so that leaves the #1 option, by far, being the draft. If they TRULY want to build a team for a championship window\run that is. If not, then yeah hold onto all those vets, deal future assets away for marginal upgrades and be content with being a pretender and hope your fan base is ok with that.

[Wizenheimer]

I neither agree with the position that Portland holds leverage in a Grant deal and will be rewarded for standing their ground nor share the belief that they have incentive to trade him now for whatever they can get. Rather, I think his worth in trade is exceeded by his on-court value. I know that is antithetical to the youth movement/asset gathering/tanking desired by most, but if it's the case that he's worth some bad salary ballast and a pretend/protected first rounder, or something like that, why move him at all?

We don't know what Grant can or will fetch in trade until it happens. I wouldn't assume Cronin is asking for the moon or that the moon will be shaken loose from a desperate team. The latter could happen, but I doubt it. The team is bereft of competent players to fill the available minutes, and Grant is one. Young players need to learn not only how to log minutes and stats but how to compete for wins in the NBA. That may not be worth a whole lot -- certainly not Grant at his current contract -- but it is worth more than a couple seconds or the like, if that's what happens to be on offer for Grant.

Altogether, I think it's wishful thinking that any of our veterans will be traded for an appealing haul, which means they may not be moved at all.

EDIT: I also realize this somewhat flies in the face of what I just posted about Simons on the Trade Board about Simons. The difference there is that I think Simons does not contribute to winning on this roster. The Blazers should put playmakers and defenders around the young backcourt pieces to help them grow and succeed.

if I was king of the Blazers and could assign priority of who should be traded it would be:

Simons
Ayton
Timelord
Grant
Thybulle

if I had a guess of which of those players would be valued the most by other teams, it would be:

Grant
Thybulle
Ayton
Simons
Timelord

the trouble is I don't think any of those players, besides possibly Grant, have positive value that significantly offsets their negative value. And I'm pretty certain that adding another season, or half-season, to any of their resumes will not add any value, no matter how well they play. The rest of the league knows exactly who those players are and what they bring to the table. There are no mysteries

returning to me sitting on my throne as the Blazer king, I'd decree that most of those vets should be traded ASAP. Playing them next season will only damage Portland's lottery chances in the very good 2025 draft....which right now is Portland's best chance at adding a star player. Portland, IMO, is at the point of addition by subtraction with these overpaid vets

[Tim Lehrbach]

returning to me sitting on my throne as the Blazer king, I'd decree that most of those vets should be traded ASAP. Playing them next season will only damage Portland's lottery chances in the very good 2025 draft....which right now is Portland's best chance at adding a star player. Portland, IMO, is at the point of addition by subtraction with these overpaid vets

Maybe I'm somehow even more pessimistic than you at this juncture, but I really don't think having the veterans around is going to make this team win too much. It might mean a few wins here and there, or more competitive losses, but there is a lower limit to how bad an NBA roster can be, and the Blazers aren't too far above it. That some of the names have gaudy stats (Grant, Simons, Ayton) or high hopes (Scoot, Sharpe, Deni) attached to them shouldn't cloud the reality that they are heretofore losers in the NBA.

[Norm2953]

I'm less enthused about the 2025 draft being so critical to Portland for its a guard heavy draft,
which means either Scoot or Shaedon will be replaced as the new player arrives and needs time
to develop, assuming the Blazers miss out on Flagg. Remember the Pistons have been tanking and
with a 14% chance in the lottery, have drafted fifth the last 3 years

I would move Grant first for he's signed for the next 4 years. If nothing else, Portland can just sit it
out and let Simons/Ayton walk in two seasons for that's what the Sixers did with Tobias Harris. Guys
like Williams have no value this summer but if he's able to play and is playing well, will be in great
demand at the trade deadline. No reason to give him away for peanuts

[Walton1one]

I think they have to clear one of Grant\Ant before camp, that way at least it allows for both Scoot\Sharpe to start.

[Wizenheimer]

returning to me sitting on my throne as the Blazer king, I'd decree that most of those vets should be traded ASAP. Playing them next season will only damage Portland's lottery chances in the very good 2025 draft....which right now is Portland's best chance at adding a star player. Portland, IMO, is at the point of addition by subtraction with these overpaid vets

Maybe I'm somehow even more pessimistic than you at this juncture, but I really don't think having the veterans around is going to make this team win too much. It might mean a few wins here and there, or more competitive losses, but there is a lower limit to how bad an NBA roster can be, and the Blazers aren't too far above it. That some of the names have gaudy stats (Grant, Simons, Ayton) or high hopes (Scoot, Sharpe, Deni) attached to them shouldn't cloud the reality that they are heretofore losers in the NBA.

I get that and maybe you're right

but the thing is, if you go by winshares, last season, Grant-Ayton-Ant-Thybulle generated 11 of Portland's 21 wins. And they only played an average of about 55 games. And last season, the difference between 1-5 in the lottery and 10-14 was 10 wins. Several teams, mostly in the East, appear to be setting up for a season long organic tank. If Ant-Grant-Ayton are on the team, Billups will play them big minutes and my thinking is that the Blazers will grab some wins earlier in the season that will be pretty damaging to their lottery chances

but isn't that just like Portland: to blatantly tank into one of the worst drafts in years only to dither around straddling fences and do a half-azz 'play-in-or-tank-?' heading into one of the best drafts in years

IMHO, there has never been a more appropriate time for a team to go the 'addition-by-subtraction' route as the Blazers in 2024-25. Gawd I wish Jody would sell the team

[Walton1one]

Oh man, I hope that doesn’t happen, as a longtime Blazer fan that will just be utterly depressing to watch play out.

[HoopsFanAZ]

September Trade Winds

Someone who wants to snatch up Thybulle (Dallas, perhaps Kleiber) would be wise to do it in September. It’s not necessary for Portland (he won’t win them games and could just opt-out next summer for salary savings), but his player option next summer means Portland loses practically all leverage after February.

Time Lord is someone the Blazers really like and his decision to get surgery to address the issues (rather than rehab) has been spoken to as showing he wanted to stay. Ayton has 2 years of contract … and my guess is Clingan surpasses Ayton in the Blazers’ estimation during year 2. So there’s less reason to trade Time Lord quickly unless it’s just about cutting bait on his getting dinged up. Keeping him for after an Ayton trade is a legit option.

Ant and Grant need to be gone prior to the season. Maximize the return — future draft capital. Short veteran contracts. Young, possible, NBA guys 25 years old or younger.

I will be surprised if Cronin doesn’t move Grant and Ant in September.

[tester551]

September Trade Winds

Someone who wants to snatch up Thybulle (Dallas, perhaps Kleiber) would be wise to do it in September. It’s not necessary for Portland (he won’t win them games and could just opt-out next summer for salary savings), but his player option next summer means Portland loses practically all leverage after February.

Time Lord is someone the Blazers really like and his decision to get surgery to address the issues (rather than rehab) has been spoken to as showing he wanted to stay. Ayton has 2 years of contract … and my guess is Clingan surpasses Ayton in the Blazers’ estimation during year 2. So there’s less reason to trade Time Lord quickly unless it’s just about cutting bait on his getting dinged up. Keeping him for after an Ayton trade is a legit option.

Ant and Grant need to be gone prior to the season. Maximize the return — future draft capital. Short veteran contracts. Young, possible, NBA guys 25 years old or younger.

I will be surprised if Cronin doesn’t move Grant and Ant in September.

Why September?
Historically, thats been a slow month for trades, as there is no real 'deadline' to push a deal across the finish line

[HoopsFanAZ]

September Trade Winds

[…]

I will be surprised if Cronin doesn’t move Grant and Ant in September.

Why September?

Historically, thats been a slow month for trades, as there is no real 'deadline' to push a deal across the finish line

August — really slow
September — slow
October — game on

There’s isn’t significant pressure on Cronin for trades — other than having players on the roster who aren’t the likely future of the team, AND Billups will play them because they’re better right now … as he should.

Simons, Sharpe, Avdija, Grant, Ayton — wins unnecessary early games
Scoot, Sharpe, Camara, Avdija, Ayton — wins less

Working through the conversations with teams after the draft — where no draftee should be a first-day starter on a playoff team — has settled in … and the reality of free agency misses has, too (for the Lakers and others). So you’re right about urgency, or lack of it, normally. This is not a normal season. Being bad is a now thing (Blazers). Winning in a time of parity is a now thing (Lakers). LBJ an AD will be done with the Olympics and in no mood for mediocrity, again.

September is a rational timeframe for teams who want to win. February (and leading up to it) is like early free agency with competition for players and emotion.

[Sinobas]

I don't think there is any way Gant gets us the 29' and 31' LAL picks. I would be happy with 29' and the rights to swap in 30. I'd even be willing to include a couple of seconds to make that work. I'm not hearing anything about Grant to LAL right now though.

there is only one way that would happen and that's if both picks are unprotected, lol, for Grant. If that is Cronin's ask he's being a bigger irrational nutjob than Daryl Morey on crank and Redbull

I don't think there's a chance Grant gets traded to the Lakers. Between Cronin's apparent intransigence and the Lakers 2nd apron problem, I think the trade is DOA

It's hyperbole to say it's "insane" or "ridiculous". We traded two 1sts for Robert Covington. And that netted Houston Isaiah Stewart and Usman Garuba (ie not much).

But Rui is a pretty good role player, and has as much value as a pick. If we get Rui, a pick and an expiring for Grant, it'll be a good trade.

[Tim Lehrbach]

I'd be surprised if we get a pick in addition to Rui and expirings for Grant. I just don't think Grant helps the Lakers enough to justify even a protected pick. Hence my Trade Board inquiry about how to give the Lakers enough of a bump to merit a pick coming back (while also dumping another vet).