2024-25 Regular Season

[JujitsuFlip]

Seriously? Okoro of all people on the team does what he's told, no more, no less. When he's asked to help on the boards, he's shown he can use his quickness and athleticism to grab some.

Jb mentioned that was the very reason he liked Okoro so much. Good or bad, whatever the coaching staff told Okoro to do, he would not deviate from it.

There are tons of articles out there about it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Okoro could play better than he has to this point and I'd be eager to see what he does with different coaching, or the dispelling of notion that his coach controls his NBA career. If I had to bet I'd expect him to continue to improve and probably take more ownership of his career as he gets older.

But I don't expect him to ever be the rebounder that Tyson is probably going to be in year 1. I don't expect Tyson to ever be as good at defense as Okoro is, or be as efficient as Okoro has been.

I think the Cavs are willing to take a 1 year look too. We'll see if he accepts the QO and if he does, how much Kenny can get outta him.

[toooskies]

Jb mentioned that was the very reason he liked Okoro so much. Good or bad, whatever the coaching staff told Okoro to do, he would not deviate from it.

There are tons of articles out there about it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Okoro could play better than he has to this point and I'd be eager to see what he does with different coaching, or the dispelling of notion that his coach controls his NBA career. If I had to bet I'd expect him to continue to improve and probably take more ownership of his career as he gets older.

But I don't expect him to ever be the rebounder that Tyson is probably going to be in year 1. I don't expect Tyson to ever be as good at defense as Okoro is, or be as efficient as Okoro has been.

The thing about Okoro's efficiency is it's tied to his 8.5 ppg career average. I know that you believe that has to do with his touches, but he was able to bump it up against bad defenses last season and unable to bump it up against good ones. When he had to sub in as a starter in March, and again in that Celtics series, he was just hard capped at 10 ppg.

Well, he was up to 12.4ppg from March 1 to March 16th. Then he fell off hard. When I watched him over that period I thought he might've been playing hurt, and he did sit some games at the end of the month.

But I couldn't really care less that he doesn't score much given his role on the team. I care more that he doesn't take bad shots and passes it relatively quickly and plays the best perimeter defense on the team.

Our offense will be at its best when Mitchell, Garland, Mobley, and Allen take most of the shots. Mobley can't make a leap at the same time Garland returns to form unless that's true.

[jbk1234]

I wouldn't be surprised if Okoro could play better than he has to this point and I'd be eager to see what he does with different coaching, or the dispelling of notion that his coach controls his NBA career. If I had to bet I'd expect him to continue to improve and probably take more ownership of his career as he gets older.

But I don't expect him to ever be the rebounder that Tyson is probably going to be in year 1. I don't expect Tyson to ever be as good at defense as Okoro is, or be as efficient as Okoro has been.

The thing about Okoro's efficiency is it's tied to his 8.5 ppg career average. I know that you believe that has to do with his touches, but he was able to bump it up against bad defenses last season and unable to bump it up against good ones. When he had to sub in as a starter in March, and again in that Celtics series, he was just hard capped at 10 ppg.

Well, he was up to 12.4ppg from March 1 to March 16th. Then he fell off hard. When I watched him over that period I thought he might've been playing hurt, and he did sit some games at the end of the month.

But I couldn't really care less that he doesn't score much given his role on the team. I care more that he doesn't take bad shots and passes it relatively quickly and plays the best perimeter defense on the team.

Our offense will be at its best when Mitchell, Garland, Mobley, and Allen take most of the shots. Mobley can't make a leap at the same time Garland returns to form unless that's true.

The point is that if he can't score more, even when you need him to due to injury, then that's going to impact his value. The thing about March and that Celtics series is that there was only one big one the floor and he was still mostly ignored by the opposing defenses. That's a different type of role player.

[Iwasawitness]

I’m surprised we haven’t extended Mobley yet.

[JonFromVA]

I’m surprised we haven’t extended Mobley yet.

Scuttlebutt is there have been some changes to how unlikely bonuses are counted against the cap, and they're still working out which ones will be in the contract and which ones will be left out. Presumably nothing too clever going on because Mobley's cap hold won't allow cap space games next year if they don't extend him now.

[JujitsuFlip]

I’m surprised we haven’t extended Mobley yet.

Scuttlebutt is there have been some changes to how unlikely bonuses are counted against the cap, and they're still working out which ones will be in the contract and which ones will be left out. Presumably nothing too clever going on because Mobley's cap hold won't allow cap space games next year if they don't extend him now.

I was thinking if we extend him, I'm fine with it but i do like how the 76ers used Maxey's low hold number to add PG13 and Caleb Martin this summer.

Obviously the Cavs will have no where near that cap space to go get 2 wings next summer but the flexibility may be nice if we push it off 1 summer.

[jbk1234]

I’m surprised we haven’t extended Mobley yet.

Scuttlebutt is there have been some changes to how unlikely bonuses are counted against the cap, and they're still working out which ones will be in the contract and which ones will be left out. Presumably nothing too clever going on because Mobley's cap hold won't allow cap space games next year if they don't extend him now.

I was thinking if we extend him, I'm fine with it but i do like how the 76ers used Maxey's low hold number to add PG13 and Caleb Martin this summer.

Obviously the Cavs will have no where near that cap space to go get 2 wings next summer but the flexibility may be nice if we push it off 1 summer.

Even the flexibility of the full MLE would be great.

[JujitsuFlip]

Scuttlebutt is there have been some changes to how unlikely bonuses are counted against the cap, and they're still working out which ones will be in the contract and which ones will be left out. Presumably nothing too clever going on because Mobley's cap hold won't allow cap space games next year if they don't extend him now.

I was thinking if we extend him, I'm fine with it but i do like how the 76ers used Maxey's low hold number to add PG13 and Caleb Martin this summer.

Obviously the Cavs will have no where near that cap space to go get 2 wings next summer but the flexibility may be nice if we push it off 1 summer.

Even the flexibility of the full MLE would be great.

Yup, good point. So we'll see if they decide to hold off or if Mobley and his camp just wanna get it done this summer.

[toooskies]

I was thinking if we extend him, I'm fine with it but i do like how the 76ers used Maxey's low hold number to add PG13 and Caleb Martin this summer.

Obviously the Cavs will have no where near that cap space to go get 2 wings next summer but the flexibility may be nice if we push it off 1 summer.

Even the flexibility of the full MLE would be great.

Yup, good point. So we'll see if they decide to hold off or if Mobley and his camp just wanna get it done this summer.

Pretty sure that isn't going to matter. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/overview/_/year/2025/sort/cap_total

If we let everybody (Okoro on the QO, LeVert, Merrill, Jerome) walk next offseason and maximize space, we're still over the cap counting Mobley's $28m cap hold. So no room exception shenanigans sneaking someone into space.

If we use the NT-MLE, we're hard-capped at the 1st apron, which means regardless of what we might have room for by camouflaging Mobley's $10m over his cap hold, at the end of the day we're stuck with roughly $11m in 1st apron space and 9 guys (including Mobley) under contract. That's not enough space to use the NT-MLE; it's barely enough to hand out veteran minimum contracts.

We'll be better off retaining Okoro/LeVert/Merrill/Jerome (or whoever's feasible to keep) but there's no path to the NT-MLE next summer just by being frugal.

[jbk1234]

Even the flexibility of the full MLE would be great.

Yup, good point. So we'll see if they decide to hold off or if Mobley and his camp just wanna get it done this summer.

Pretty sure that isn't going to matter. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/overview/_/year/2025/sort/cap_total

If we let everybody (Okoro on the QO, LeVert, Merrill, Jerome) walk next offseason and maximize space, we're still over the cap counting Mobley's $28m cap hold. So no room exception shenanigans sneaking someone into space.

If we use the NT-MLE, we're hard-capped at the 1st apron, which means regardless of what we might have room for by camouflaging Mobley's $10m over his cap hold, at the end of the day we're stuck with roughly $11m in 1st apron space and 9 guys (including Mobley) under contract. That's not enough space to use the NT-MLE; it's barely enough to hand out veteran minimum contracts.

We'll be better off retaining Okoro/LeVert/Merrill/Jerome (or whoever's feasible to keep) but there's no path to the NT-MLE next summer just by being frugal.

Assuming Niang is still on the roster.

[toooskies]

Yup, good point. So we'll see if they decide to hold off or if Mobley and his camp just wanna get it done this summer.

Pretty sure that isn't going to matter. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/overview/_/year/2025/sort/cap_total

If we let everybody (Okoro on the QO, LeVert, Merrill, Jerome) walk next offseason and maximize space, we're still over the cap counting Mobley's $28m cap hold. So no room exception shenanigans sneaking someone into space.

If we use the NT-MLE, we're hard-capped at the 1st apron, which means regardless of what we might have room for by camouflaging Mobley's $10m over his cap hold, at the end of the day we're stuck with roughly $11m in 1st apron space and 9 guys (including Mobley) under contract. That's not enough space to use the NT-MLE; it's barely enough to hand out veteran minimum contracts.

We'll be better off retaining Okoro/LeVert/Merrill/Jerome (or whoever's feasible to keep) but there's no path to the NT-MLE next summer just by being frugal.

Assuming Niang is still on the roster.

Getting rid of Niang for no long-term salary just opens up a roughly equal salary slot to Niang. Now we're down five to-varying-degrees useful players just to pick up someone who'll accept slightly more than the tax MLE from the Cavs.

[jbk1234]

I was rooting for Nance, but as I watch these SL games, I hope the Cavs are keeping an eye out for other team's centers.

[jbk1234]

I feel badly for Travers. You can tell he really wants to come over, but he's going back to Australia.

[JujitsuFlip]

I feel badly for Travers. You can tell he really wants to come over, but he's going back to Australia.

Him and Diop get another year to grow on.

[JujitsuFlip]

Even the flexibility of the full MLE would be great.

Yup, good point. So we'll see if they decide to hold off or if Mobley and his camp just wanna get it done this summer.

Pretty sure that isn't going to matter. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/overview/_/year/2025/sort/cap_total

If we let everybody (Okoro on the QO, LeVert, Merrill, Jerome) walk next offseason and maximize space, we're still over the cap counting Mobley's $28m cap hold. So no room exception shenanigans sneaking someone into space.

If we use the NT-MLE, we're hard-capped at the 1st apron, which means regardless of what we might have room for by camouflaging Mobley's $10m over his cap hold, at the end of the day we're stuck with roughly $11m in 1st apron space and 9 guys (including Mobley) under contract. That's not enough space to use the NT-MLE; it's barely enough to hand out veteran minimum contracts.

We'll be better off retaining Okoro/LeVert/Merrill/Jerome (or whoever's feasible to keep) but there's no path to the NT-MLE next summer just by being frugal.

Thanks for doing the deep dive on that! So let's extend Mobley this summer then.

[jbk1234]

Pretty sure that isn't going to matter. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/overview/_/year/2025/sort/cap_total

If we let everybody (Okoro on the QO, LeVert, Merrill, Jerome) walk next offseason and maximize space, we're still over the cap counting Mobley's $28m cap hold. So no room exception shenanigans sneaking someone into space.

If we use the NT-MLE, we're hard-capped at the 1st apron, which means regardless of what we might have room for by camouflaging Mobley's $10m over his cap hold, at the end of the day we're stuck with roughly $11m in 1st apron space and 9 guys (including Mobley) under contract. That's not enough space to use the NT-MLE; it's barely enough to hand out veteran minimum contracts.

We'll be better off retaining Okoro/LeVert/Merrill/Jerome (or whoever's feasible to keep) but there's no path to the NT-MLE next summer just by being frugal.

Assuming Niang is still on the roster.

Getting rid of Niang for no long-term salary just opens up a roughly equal salary slot to Niang. Now we're down five to-varying-degrees useful players just to pick up someone who'll accept slightly more than the tax MLE from the Cavs.

I guess it comes down to whether you think the keep everyone well into the tax model will produce better trade opportunities than having some wiggle room below the aprons. Looking around the league I'm not sure that's true.

[JujitsuFlip]

https://sports.yahoo.com/2024-nba-free-agency-evan-mobley-cavaliers-reportedly-agree-to-5-year-224-million-maximum-extension-015117386.html

Evan locked in for 5 years!

[toooskies]

Assuming Niang is still on the roster.

Getting rid of Niang for no long-term salary just opens up a roughly equal salary slot to Niang. Now we're down five to-varying-degrees useful players just to pick up someone who'll accept slightly more than the tax MLE from the Cavs.

I guess it comes down to whether you think the keep everyone well into the tax model will produce better trade opportunities than having some wiggle room below the aprons. Looking around the league I'm not sure that's true.

It is better to have more playable guys than fewer, just generally.

[JonFromVA]

https://sports.yahoo.com/2024-nba-free-agency-evan-mobley-cavaliers-reportedly-agree-to-5-year-224-million-maximum-extension-015117386.html

Evan locked in for 5 years!

Sounds like Evan got some of those unlikely bonuses. Probably got the same as his peers I imagine.

[Iwasawitness]

Well now that Mobley is inked up, our future is set. But I’m a little annoyed we haven’t made any real additions to the roster yet. Granted, we’re limited on what we can do, but still…