Josh Harris busting out the "Camden Sixers" threats

[Slacktard]

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The state of New Jersey is making a serious push to convince the Philadelphia 76ers to move to New Jersey and into a new arena that would be built in Camden, four people familiar with the discussions confirmed to ROI-NJ.

Discussions between top state officials and leaders from Harris Blitzer Sports & Entertainment (which owns the team) have been ongoing for the last two months, the sources said.

The sources indicated that talks have picked up recently, in part because HBSE’s efforts to build a new arena in Center City Philadelphia have hit repeated roadblocks, despite the fact that the owners have indicated they would self-finance the $1.3 billion proposed project.

The Sixers, whose current lease at the Wells Fargo Center ends after the 2030-31 season, have been looking for a new home for the better part of the past five years. And, while the opportunity to move to New Jersey may be seen by some as a negotiating ploy, it makes sense on a number of levels, the sources said, including:

[KramerDSP]

If the owner of the Redskins and Rangers successfully moves the Sixers to New Jersey, he’s the most hated sports owner in the history of Philadelphia.

[Arsenal]

It would be another historical L for the city of Philadelphia to blow this opportunity and force the Sixers to move to Camden.

I'm no fan of our cheap owner, but the plan for 76Place in downtown Philly is a great one. The pols and residents would be idiots to run them out of town.

[Stanford]

Nationalize sports

[Sixersftw]

Do it Harris, you coward. Release me from this Basketball prison.

[mjkvol]

Or he could just keep the Philadelphia name while playing in NJ. The Giants (and Jets) have been doing it using the New York moniker for 40+ years, and after a bit of initial outrage no one seems to care other than Jet fans living in Long Island.

[Jailblazers7]

It’s a hollow threat. It’s been proven out that the business model for a new arena is to locate it downtown near other amenities & public transit. That allows the owners to maximize non-basketball revenue via concerts & other events.

[Stanford]

In terms of accessibility for most local fans, how does Camden compare to where they are now and the the proposed "Center City" location?

[the_process]

In terms of accessibility for most local fans, how does Camden compare to where they are now and the the proposed "Center City" location?

Coming from the northern and eastern suburbs, it was always just as easy to get to Camden as it was to get downtown. Can't imagine that's changed.

However, that's a longer trip if you're south and west of the city. And Delaware county is a big chunk of the fan base.

But this is a Philadelphia choice. This arena should be easy to approve for the city, yet they will probably deny it. And so the Sixers will move across the river. The team isn't changing the name even if they move across the river btw.

[Jailblazers7]

It’s already a Herculean task to build anything ambitious in a major city these days but it’s probably uniquely challenging to do it in Center City. Lots of historical & cultural landmarks to contend with that would make it easy to get stuck in the legal process forever.

[PhillyFan11]

Camden is definitely doable…IF they are willing to also redevelop a large portion of the city around the stadium as well. I know they’ve been making improvements around the water front area, but there’s still a lot left that would have to be done to make it not look like a war zone only a couple miles away from the stadium

[sixers hoops]

It would be another historical L for the city of Philadelphia to blow this opportunity and force the Sixers to move to Camden.

I'm no fan of our cheap owner, but the plan for 76Place in downtown Philly is a great one. The pols and residents would be idiots to run them out of town.

I don’t really understand it well enough to have an opinion, but I feel like the teams are really trying to convert the sports complex from a gigantic parking lot with a few stadiums to more of an entertainment district. Is there space at the sports complex for them to build their own arena, meet parking requirements, and still expand the size of the sports complex for new restaurants, etc?

[Sixerscan]

It would be another historical L for the city of Philadelphia to blow this opportunity and force the Sixers to move to Camden.

I'm no fan of our cheap owner, but the plan for 76Place in downtown Philly is a great one. The pols and residents would be idiots to run them out of town.

I don’t really understand it well enough to have an opinion, but I feel like the teams are really trying to convert the sports complex from a gigantic parking lot with a few stadiums to more of an entertainment district. Is there space at the sports complex for them to build their own arena, meet parking requirements, and still expand the size of the sports complex for new restaurants, etc?

I think part of the plan would be to transition from parking lots to garages which would open up more space. Maybe they would have to expand a bit and buy some of the independent lots around there but they could make it work.

That said, I feel pretty comfortable saying that proposed plan is just a PR stunt to leverage against the Sixers' stadium plan. At one point Xfinity Live was supposed to be this big sprawling thing and then eventually got downsized to basically a big bar. Not sure what's changed since then. The stadiums are where they are because people from outside the city want to get in and out as quickly as possible, maybe tailgate before (which btw the garages mentioned above would probably remove as an option).

I also don't think that plan includes a new Sixers stadium? I have to imagine Comcast has zero interest in a competing stadium that will probably completely outclass WFC in the city, whether downtown or at the complex. I doubt the Phillies or Eagles would be happy about it either.

I am optimistic that all of this is just necessary steps in a game that eventually ends with building it at the Gallery. A few months ago the Wizards and Capitals were straight up moving to Virginia before eventually staying in DC.

[sixers hoops]

It would be another historical L for the city of Philadelphia to blow this opportunity and force the Sixers to move to Camden.

I'm no fan of our cheap owner, but the plan for 76Place in downtown Philly is a great one. The pols and residents would be idiots to run them out of town.

I don’t really understand it well enough to have an opinion, but I feel like the teams are really trying to convert the sports complex from a gigantic parking lot with a few stadiums to more of an entertainment district. Is there space at the sports complex for them to build their own arena, meet parking requirements, and still expand the size of the sports complex for new restaurants, etc?

I think part of the plan would be to transition from parking lots to garages which would open up more space. Maybe they would have to expand a bit and buy some of the independent lots around there but they could make it work.

That said, I feel pretty comfortable saying that proposed plan is just a PR stunt to leverage against the Sixers' stadium plan. At one point Xfinity Live was supposed to be this big sprawling thing and then eventually got downsized to basically a big bar. Not sure what's changed since then. The stadiums are where they are because people from outside the city want to get in and out as quickly as possible, maybe tailgate before (which btw the garages mentioned above would probably remove as an option).

I also don't think that plan includes a new Sixers stadium? I have to imagine Comcast has zero interest in a competing stadium that will probably completely outclass WFC in the city, whether downtown or at the complex. I doubt the Phillies or Eagles would be happy about it either.

I am optimistic that all of this is just necessary steps in a game that eventually ends with building it at the Gallery. A few months ago the Wizards and Capitals were straight up moving to Virginia before eventually staying in DC.

Good points. I don’t know that area that well as far as what would get displaced, but I read that they are planning to pay for the stadium themselves, so get something done. You can’t expect them to keep renting the WFC, so it seems the Sixers are being pretty reasonable.

[Arsenal]

It would be another historical L for the city of Philadelphia to blow this opportunity and force the Sixers to move to Camden.

I'm no fan of our cheap owner, but the plan for 76Place in downtown Philly is a great one. The pols and residents would be idiots to run them out of town.

I don’t really understand it well enough to have an opinion, but I feel like the teams are really trying to convert the sports complex from a gigantic parking lot with a few stadiums to more of an entertainment district. Is there space at the sports complex for them to build their own arena, meet parking requirements, and still expand the size of the sports complex for new restaurants, etc?

I think part of the plan would be to transition from parking lots to garages which would open up more space. Maybe they would have to expand a bit and buy some of the independent lots around there but they could make it work.

That said, I feel pretty comfortable saying that proposed plan is just a PR stunt to leverage against the Sixers' stadium plan. At one point Xfinity Live was supposed to be this big sprawling thing and then eventually got downsized to basically a big bar. Not sure what's changed since then. The stadiums are where they are because people from outside the city want to get in and out as quickly as possible, maybe tailgate before (which btw the garages mentioned above would probably remove as an option).

I also don't think that plan includes a new Sixers stadium? I have to imagine Comcast has zero interest in a competing stadium that will probably completely outclass WFC in the city, whether downtown or at the complex. I doubt the Phillies or Eagles would be happy about it either.

I am optimistic that all of this is just necessary steps in a game that eventually ends with building it at the Gallery. A few months ago the Wizards and Capitals were straight up moving to Virginia before eventually staying in DC.

Hope so too. A downtown / center city arena is so much better than the current stadium complex location. Just look at TD Garden in Boston, Madison Square Garden in NYC, and Verizon Center in DC to see why. If done right it would be a major economic boon to the city and help revitalize an entire urban neighborhood.

As for suburbanites whining about wanting to drive to games, give me a break. The Gallery location is perfect for public transit. There will be no reason to drive to games anymore. Of course, the transit lines must be updated to handle the capacity, but that is part of the plan.

Besides who tailgates for basketball games anyway? Tailgating is for football.

[mjkvol]

I don’t really understand it well enough to have an opinion, but I feel like the teams are really trying to convert the sports complex from a gigantic parking lot with a few stadiums to more of an entertainment district. Is there space at the sports complex for them to build their own arena, meet parking requirements, and still expand the size of the sports complex for new restaurants, etc?

I think part of the plan would be to transition from parking lots to garages which would open up more space. Maybe they would have to expand a bit and buy some of the independent lots around there but they could make it work.

That said, I feel pretty comfortable saying that proposed plan is just a PR stunt to leverage against the Sixers' stadium plan. At one point Xfinity Live was supposed to be this big sprawling thing and then eventually got downsized to basically a big bar. Not sure what's changed since then. The stadiums are where they are because people from outside the city want to get in and out as quickly as possible, maybe tailgate before (which btw the garages mentioned above would probably remove as an option).

I also don't think that plan includes a new Sixers stadium? I have to imagine Comcast has zero interest in a competing stadium that will probably completely outclass WFC in the city, whether downtown or at the complex. I doubt the Phillies or Eagles would be happy about it either.

I am optimistic that all of this is just necessary steps in a game that eventually ends with building it at the Gallery. A few months ago the Wizards and Capitals were straight up moving to Virginia before eventually staying in DC.

Hope so too. A downtown / center city arena is so much better than the current stadium complex location. Just look at TD Garden in Boston, Madison Square Garden in NYC, and Verizon Center in DC to see why. If done right it would be a major economic boon to the city and help revitalize an entire urban neighborhood.

As for suburbanites whining about wanting to drive to games, give me a break. The Gallery location is perfect for public transit. There will be no reason to drive to games anymore. Of course, the transit lines must be updated to handle the capacity, but that is part of the plan.

Besides who tailgates for basketball games anyway? Tailgating is for football.

I don't disagree aside from downplaying driving to games for those outside the city. Might not make sense to a city-dweller, but not everyone wants to ride public transit, especially if they have their families with them. And the fact that trains at night aren't exactly known for being safe, especially these days, only adds to that feeling. Most people just want to get to their cars and get the hell out after a game.

[Sixerscan]

Yeah my point about the suburbs people is just that's why they probably aren't ever going to build out the stadium complex. Those people don't want to stay there and would probably just complain that all the added amenities make it harder to get out.

Obviously building the stadium in CC conveniences some and inconveniences others just like building it at the complex would. Arguably if we're being equitable it should more so convenience the people who actually live in, work and pay taxes to the city whose name is on the jersey and less those who just come in for 2 hours and leave (not that there's a complete line there between the two options). Especially if the city is helping to fund it, though fortunately it seems like that's not the case here.

I'm sure Harris and co. are more focused on the real estate opportunity than anything like that though.

[mjkvol]

Yeah my point about the suburbs people is just that's why they probably aren't ever going to build out the stadium complex. Those people don't want to stay there and would probably just complain that all the added amenities make it harder to get out.

Obviously building the stadium in CC conveniences some and inconveniences others just like building it at the complex would. Arguably if we're being equitable it should more so convenience the people who actually live in, work and pay taxes to the city whose name is on the jersey and not those who just come in for 2 hours and leave (not that there's a complete line there between the two options). Especially if the city is helping to fund it, though fortunately it seems like that's not the case here.

I'm sure Harris and co. are more focused on the real estate opportunity than anything like that though.

I don't disagree on arenas and stadiums being in cities that the team is named for, especially if taxes are helping to fund it, and that people who live in the cities should be the priority. I'm not sure most team owners really care, though, as much as whatever option best serves the bottom line.

I don't agree at all that suburbanites wouldn't take advantage of added amenities like shops and restaurants at an entertainment complex - in fact, they are more likely to stay and make a day or night of it, especially if they're traveling an hour or two to get there.

[Sixerscan]

Yeah my point about the suburbs people is just that's why they probably aren't ever going to build out the stadium complex. Those people don't want to stay there and would probably just complain that all the added amenities make it harder to get out.

Obviously building the stadium in CC conveniences some and inconveniences others just like building it at the complex would. Arguably if we're being equitable it should more so convenience the people who actually live in, work and pay taxes to the city whose name is on the jersey and not those who just come in for 2 hours and leave (not that there's a complete line there between the two options). Especially if the city is helping to fund it, though fortunately it seems like that's not the case here.

I'm sure Harris and co. are more focused on the real estate opportunity than anything like that though.

I don't disagree on arenas and stadiums being in cities that the team is named for, especially if taxes are helping to fund it, and that people who live in the cities should be the priority. I'm not sure most team owners really care, though, as much as whatever option best serves the bottom line.

I don't agree at all that suburbanites wouldn't take advantage of added amenities like shops and restaurants at an entertainment complex - in fact, they are more likely to stay and make a day or night of it, especially if they're traveling an hour or two to get there.

Yeah like I said I think Harris is mostly focused on the real estate. He wants his equivalent of what the Nets got with Barclays center. Wouldn't shock me if he sold soon after actually.

I'm sure some would take advantage but I feel like they looked into it when Xfinity Live was being developed and got bad info in the aggregate.

[HotelVitale]

I don’t really understand it well enough to have an opinion, but I feel like the teams are really trying to convert the sports complex from a gigantic parking lot with a few stadiums to more of an entertainment district. Is there space at the sports complex for them to build their own arena, meet parking requirements, and still expand the size of the sports complex for new restaurants, etc?

I think part of the plan would be to transition from parking lots to garages which would open up more space. Maybe they would have to expand a bit and buy some of the independent lots around there but they could make it work.

That said, I feel pretty comfortable saying that proposed plan is just a PR stunt to leverage against the Sixers' stadium plan. At one point Xfinity Live was supposed to be this big sprawling thing and then eventually got downsized to basically a big bar. Not sure what's changed since then. The stadiums are where they are because people from outside the city want to get in and out as quickly as possible, maybe tailgate before (which btw the garages mentioned above would probably remove as an option).

I also don't think that plan includes a new Sixers stadium? I have to imagine Comcast has zero interest in a competing stadium that will probably completely outclass WFC in the city, whether downtown or at the complex. I doubt the Phillies or Eagles would be happy about it either.

I am optimistic that all of this is just necessary steps in a game that eventually ends with building it at the Gallery. A few months ago the Wizards and Capitals were straight up moving to Virginia before eventually staying in DC.

Hope so too. A downtown / center city arena is so much better than the current stadium complex location. Just look at TD Garden in Boston, Madison Square Garden in NYC, and Verizon Center in DC to see why. If done right it would be a major economic boon to the city and help revitalize an entire urban neighborhood.

As for suburbanites whining about wanting to drive to games, give me a break. The Gallery location is perfect for public transit. There will be no reason to drive to games anymore. Of course, the transit lines must be updated to handle the capacity, but that is part of the plan.

Besides who tailgates for basketball games anyway? Tailgating is for football.

The current complex is very easy to access for everyone—city and suburban—and it’s already in a pretty urban city neighborhood location too. That section of center city is also bustling as is. Neither is a problem that needs fixing now. I get that certain people like the idea of center city Sixers since it kinda feels cool to think of taking in a few games in the heart of the city, but it’s also really not hard to grab a drink in center city and catch the sub to games now. (And I honestly don’t want to do that all that much anyway.)

Also Chinatown is great, I’d take 50 chinatowns over one stadium with a couple more sports bars around it. It’s not going to be instantly ruined by an arena but I think it’s totally fair to let those residents say they want things to stay as is when the situation is what it is. (I also selfishly don’t want like 5 years worth of construction at 11th and market, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they feel the same way.) This feels more like rich owners wanting a toy and a subset of urban sophisticates daydreaming about a perfect cocktail evening. I’m actually not opposed to the idea but I don’t think it makes sense in this instance.