Which of these recent players will ultimately rank above Kobe?

[One_and_Done]

I think Jokić is above Kobe for sure.

All the other guys are below right now. SGA, Giannis maybe could rank above Kobe at the end, but I am not sure about that. Luka is probably the next guy who could actually join Jokić in this debate, but he has a long way to go.

I am not the biggest Kobe fan, maybe overall I do NOT think he is overrated, I just think his stans are definitely the most delusional bunch out of the entire sport. But that being said, at the end of the day, Kobe has five NBA championships and was top 3 player in the world for more than a decade, maybe his talent and level could be exceeded, but his actual career most likely wont, for any of these guys not named Jokić.

Above? How? They don't even play the same position. Kobe didn't just have 5 championships, he was 9x all defensive 1st team. He wasn't just the best scorer of his time, but one of the best defender as well.

Jokic only plays hard on one end.

Kobe's defensive proses is mostly a myth. RAPM studies have him being a net neutral defender in his prime https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/dsmok1/viz/RAPMvsMPG2001-2012/Dashboard1

There were youtube videos dedicated to showing how comical Kobe's all-D teams were in the final years of his career.

[One_and_Done]

Jokić has a very reasonable shot.
Dončić has a decade to prove it. Same with Shai Gilgeous-Alexander.
I really don't get the other options. Especially players like Dirk and KG, that are clearly talented, but never really ascended to Kobe's level. Those just seem like troll picks.
I also feel like Anthony Edwards should at least be an option. Probably not the right answer. But at least an option.

The fact that a bunch of people are voting for KG and Dirk should tell you that not everyone shares your opinion. I think there's plenty of evidence that Dirk, and especially KG, were more impactful than Kobe ever was. Not every star is lucky enough to play with the stacked deck Kobe had for most of his career.

I would have liked to list Ant too, as I think he'll also surpass him, but I only had 9 spots.

[Michael Beasley]

how do KG and Dirk have votes when they played in the same era as Kob and didn't have nearly the same level of success

[Lo Wang]

Above? How? They don't even play the same position. Kobe didn't just have 5 championships, he was 9x all defensive 1st team. He wasn't just the best scorer of his time, but one of the best defender as well.

Jokic only plays hard on one end.

Kobe's defensive proses is mostly a myth. RAPM studies have him being a net neutral defender in his prime https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/dsmok1/viz/RAPMvsMPG2001-2012/Dashboard1

People are probably getting too young to remember those Kobe defensive teams. We were always baffed every season. Thing with Kobe, at least the explanation we had, that when it really matters, he starts defending and its elite. People had that fear that in decisive noments, Kobe can shut down anbody, i think that rep and fear carried him cause if not mistsken, i think coaches used to vote for all defense, and coaches hated facing Kobe teams. Its just other 90% of the time Kobe was almost coasting on D. Coaches often half assed these votes, i think that is why it was taken away at the end.

I find it hilarious how some people tend to rewrite history to advance a specific narrative. I find net rating or selective highlights that depict Kobe as a weak defender is disingenuous because he has never been seen as a poor defender. In fact, his defensive prowess was so insignificant that he was named to the 1st All Defensive Team nine times. How many times has Jokic received a selection?

If we collectively acknowledge MJ (and, for some, LeBron) as the greatest of all time, why do we not apply the same criteria when evaluating Jokic? Jordan dominated both ends of the court, as did LeBron in his prime. I would even argue that playing great defense is much more challenging than achieving a triple double. Regardless of Jokic's god-like efficiency, he is still only impacting half of the game.

Kobe, on the other hand, exerted maximum effort on both ends of the court. Oh yea, 5 rings too. That's also important.

[UcanUwill]

Kobe's defensive proses is mostly a myth. RAPM studies have him being a net neutral defender in his prime https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/dsmok1/viz/RAPMvsMPG2001-2012/Dashboard1

People are probably getting too young to remember those Kobe defensive teams. We were always baffed every season. Thing with Kobe, at least the explanation we had, that when it really matters, he starts defending and its elite. People had that fear that in decisive noments, Kobe can shut down anbody, i think that rep and fear carried him cause if not mistsken, i think coaches used to vote for all defense, and coaches hated facing Kobe teams. Its just other 90% of the time Kobe was almost coasting on D. Coaches often half assed these votes, i think that is why it was taken away at the end.

I find it hilarious how some people tend to rewrite history to advance a specific narrative. I find net rating or selective highlights that depict Kobe as a weak defender is disingenuous because he has never been seen as a poor defender. In fact, his defensive prowess was so insignificant that he was named to the 1st All Defensive Team nine times. How many times has Jokic received a selection?

If we collectively acknowledge MJ (and, for some, LeBron) as the greatest of all time, why do we not apply the same criteria when evaluating Jokic? Jordan dominated both ends of the court, as did LeBron in his prime. I would even argue that playing great defense is much more challenging than achieving a triple double. Regardless of Jokic's god-like efficiency, he is still only impacting half of the game.

Kobe, on the other hand, exerted maximum effort on both ends of the court. Oh yea, 5 rings too. That's also important.

Well, i wont convince that Jokic is better, I just think he is better player, I would take him before Kobe without debate. I aint rewriting history, I say his defensive selections baffled community for 10 years straight at the time it was happening, but time passes and what is getting remembered are facts coaches kept voting him in, and the facts he absolutely wasn't giving maximum effort on d are getting forgotten. I frankly do not fault Kobe for taking it easy on d, because players like him has big roles offensively, so very few players have stamina to be Kobe on O all elite defender on D, but his defensive selections is such an old discussion, we all knew it was suspect snd hated every single one of those, and I dont have interest in breaking it 10 years later for the new audience.

I just think Jokic is better. He plays at the same time as a guy who was MVP, and DPOY same season, and that guy still in his prime, and gues what, Jokic is still best player currently, explain me that feet. Jokic would be best player even if we inserted 06-08 Kobe into the league. You need yo watch how players impact the game.

[One_and_Done]

:lol: how do KG and Dirk have votes when they played in the same era as Kob and didn't have nearly the same level of success

Their teams didn't have as much success, because the talent around the star wasn't as good. If Dirk or KG spent their first 8 years as prime Shaq's Robin then they'd have more than 3 titles in that stretch. Kobe's later title teams were the most stacked teams in the league too.

[CBS7]

I do agree most people on this list win 2+ titles next to Shaq, but people underrating Kobe's last 2 titles.

Dirk played with a ton of talent too and ended with 1 title.
KG was unlucky but I can't discount his 10 year stretch with 2 playoff series victories. He played with stud talent late in his career too and only managed one title as well.

CP3 had some good teams too and never made a Finals.

I understand some of the deep advanced stats have their uses, but I can't take KG or Dirk or CP3 > Kobe arguments seriously... and I rate Kobe borderline top 10.

[CBS7]

Anyhow I voted Giannis Luka Jokic. But they have a long way to be rated above him all time

[CobraCommander]

:lol: how do KG and Dirk have votes when they played in the same era as Kob and didn't have nearly the same level of success

Exactly- RealGM is full of guys that don’t touch grass- computer screens and not even a single real game of hoops or a bar debate with non-RealGM friends - (I fall into that category 99% of the time so im taking a shot at myself too)

Facts - None of these guys but Giannis and jokic have a realistic chance. The 2 and 3 mvp DPOY finals MVP as the prime player all before 30 gives them a shot: but Kobe got 5 of them things- Kobe got legendary status away from RealGM. Known as the ultimate competitor and ultimate warrior and ultimate winner.

The stat nerds on RealGM will never understand why none of the guys on this list that are playing today will measure up. This isn’t a LeBron vs Jordan conversation-

This is a “the mamba was a global icon revered the the elite basketball purist, the elite basketball player and all of the fans worldwide”. And these playoffs were not watched after LeBron was eliminated

https://www.statista.com/statistics/240381/nba-finals-tv-ratings-in-the-united-states/#:~:text=The%20games%20of%20the%202024,NBA%20title%20in%20franchise%20history.

- this is what yall don’t get
When Kobe Bryant won his last championship with the Los Angeles Lakers in 2010, the TV ratings were INSANE . The 2010 NBA Finals, which pitted the Lakers against the Boston Celtics… so two monster franchise but Game 7 of the series drew an average of 28.2 million viewers, making it the highest-rated NBA game since Michael Jordan’s final championship game in 1998.

This year Luka and kyrie against the lakers got no views -

My point is, for someone to overcome Kobe, people have to care about that person and their game. Beyond people on RealGM.

I can say this with sadness and certainty- no one that RealGM rated as a top 5 nba player right now is more popular in America than Caitlin Clark. If you think I’m joking check her college game views vs anyone in the top 5s best most popular or impactful games.

And you can say “cobra that’s just who people want to watch vs who can play” and I’ll say “top 5 nba players on earth can’t draw a bigger crowd than a woman hooper?… guys these ballers are not regarded high enough or have done anything special to be considered in the pantheon with Kobe”

Even our top 5 ranking is inaccurate to most non real gm people - Luka hurt his rankings with the general fans during these playoffs being 1 dimensional and cries like a soccer player - (Americans don’t like emotional soft men…hate me you know I’m right) Embiid is considered always too hurt but the best player overall,jokic is a weird after thought because the nba marketed the best athletes on earth for decades now the best player is unathletic, Giannis is considered the best after Embiid to most people I know but people just know he is the biggest baddest athlete and has won everything plus he scores 30 a game and per rumors plays defense at the DPOY level. And SGA is unknown if you don’t watch hoops… a sports fan I know said - I only watch the NBa in the playoffs and he thought Kawhi got traded to OKC… lol never even heard SGA speak- just say a 6’7” dude with corn rolls dropping 30 in the midrange and playing hard defense with no emotions in playoffs and thought… “oh Kawhi got traded to okc”.

My whole point - Kobe was and is regarded higher than everyone of these guys by a mile and your stats won’t change that as long as these guys don’t do anything special cause Kobe was absolutely SPECTACULAR in the minds of the players, his opponents, teammates, fans, casuals, Chinese and Japanese fans (, everywhere in Asia except Philippines- mj got Philippines on lock like a Demi-god) and realistically no one is sees anything special in our current crop of guys - I think Jokic is god tier- but I’m alone in that and no one in a single bar or gym or court any where agrees with me. I play basketball in Cherry creek and gyms, soccer in outdoor and indoor leagues off colfax do the social scene in nyc, Atlanta, dmv, Seattle and Denver - no one seems to know or care about our champions- Kobe is loved by all these guys everywhere and no one in the current group is approaching that level of importance

[zaymon]

Kobe is iconic player so he will rank high, but watching current NBA where efficiency, 3 point shooting, creating for others, protecting the paint are most important i would choose every player to build around above Kobe.

[Grahf]

I'm a little surprised Tim Duncan's name isn't in the poll, given how "Who's the player of the decade from 2000-2010" debates always came down to Duncan vs. Kobe.

[Frank Dux]

Anyhow I voted Giannis Luka Jokic. But they have a long way to be rated above him all time

I’ll give you Jokic for sure. He has one of the highest peaks of all time. Time is running out for Giannis though, earlier in his career when he was a two-time MVP and DPOY I thought he was on that trajectory for sure. But he’s floundered since, is constantly dealing with injuries and his team is getting older and capped out. He’s 29 and his best days are probably behind him. Not sure if someone who relies on athleticism that much is going to be that effective into his 30’s, but we’ll see.

Doncic is amazing, but if he’s going to be ranked above Kobe, he has to bring home some championships. It’s a bit premature, and he has a long way to go. I think we’re getting a little too caught up in the bloated stats era. If Kobe played in this era, his stats would look a lot better.

[One_and_Done]

I'm a little surprised Tim Duncan's name isn't in the poll, given how "Who's the player of the decade from 2000-2010" debates always came down to Duncan vs. Kobe.

I don't need to put the likes of Tim Duncan, Shaq, Curry, Lebron, etc, because everyone already knows they're better.

[Michael Beasley]

I'm a little surprised Tim Duncan's name isn't in the poll, given how "Who's the player of the decade from 2000-2010" debates always came down to Duncan vs. Kobe.

I don't need to put the likes of Tim Duncan, Shaq, Curry, Lebron, etc, because everyone already knows they're better.

I'll give you Tim because him and Kobe were neck and neck, but Curry.......

[One_and_Done]

I'm a little surprised Tim Duncan's name isn't in the poll, given how "Who's the player of the decade from 2000-2010" debates always came down to Duncan vs. Kobe.

I don't need to put the likes of Tim Duncan, Shaq, Curry, Lebron, etc, because everyone already knows they're better.

I'll give you Tim because him and Kobe were neck and neck, but Curry.......

viewtopic.php?t=2350768

viewtopic.php?t=2372351

viewtopic.php?t=2395372

Curry spanks Kobe in every poll, and rightly. He has been a much more impactful player. Including Curry, Duncan, Shaq, Lebron, etc, would have been pointless. They are no brainers over Kobe.

[One_and_Done]

And a telling poll here too:
viewtopic.php?t=2337964&start=20

[brackdan70]

None really. Jokic has a chance I guess.
Kobe gets underrated severely by many around here.

[CobraCommander]

I'm a little surprised Tim Duncan's name isn't in the poll, given how "Who's the player of the decade from 2000-2010" debates always came down to Duncan vs. Kobe.

Duncan is above Kobe on this list because it’s real gm - and honestly Duncan is just better in the eyes of everyone but casual fans

[One_and_Done]

None really. Jokic has a chance I guess.
Kobe gets underrated severely by many around here.

If we look at the stats it's not really close, most of these guys look better than him.

[Godymas]

why is James Harden not in the poll