2024 NBA Draft - Chicago Bulls select Matas Buzelis with the 11th pick

[madvillian]

The only scenario I see him not being playable is if he's just unable to get his shot off against NBA athletes. I don't think that will happen. I think he's ready to play a decent 15-20 minutes a night. His floor as a rookie went up after the SL performances.

[DuckIII]

The only scenario I see him not being playable is if he's just unable to get his shot off against NBA athletes.

The thing is, his athletic and physical profile along with his handle and shot blocking make him perfectly playable on our roster already even without the shot.

I know I harp on this, but in a very general sense tall athletic bouncy guys are all over NBA rosters. It’s an extremely common player prototype - again, generally speaking.

We had zero such players for YEARS. We have to be the only team during that time without one, and most probably had anywhere from 2-4.

We now have one, which remains absolutely pathetic, and it’s Matas. I don’t need to see more than what I have already seen to know that on our roster he is already more than playable. We have a needed roll for him to fill even with what he is right now.

It would be borderline unthinkable with our roster construction for him to not be playing 18-22 mpg his rookie season. Minimum.

[dougthonus]

The only scenario I see him not being playable is if he's just unable to get his shot off against NBA athletes. I don't think that will happen. I think he's ready to play a decent 15-20 minutes a night. His floor as a rookie went up after the SL performances.

I'm not sure what you mean by "playable" exactly. He had a Dalen Terry like shooting performance in summer league. He just had an absolute crap ton of highlight real dunks and displayed a pretty great handle. The handle won't do much until he can finish / shoot so is kind of irrelevant, if you just want some highlight dunks, we could have Javonte Green.

On the defensive end, he gave up quite a few blowbys, he seems pretty decent off the ball, but I don't think he displayed a super great motor on defense (or off ball on offense if it wasn't in the open court).

I think he looks like he's got really good promise, but i think he's going to be really bad out of the gates. I think he's got a lower floor than Pat Williams did as a rookie, because it may be the case that nothing translates and is useful out the gates.

[DuckIII]

The only scenario I see him not being playable is if he's just unable to get his shot off against NBA athletes. I don't think that will happen. I think he's ready to play a decent 15-20 minutes a night. His floor as a rookie went up after the SL performances.

I'm not sure what you mean by "playable" exactly. He had a Dalen Terry like shooting performance in summer league. He just had an absolute crap ton of highlight real dunks and displayed a pretty great handle. The handle won't do much until he can finish / shoot so is kind of irrelevant, if you just want some highlight dunks, we could have Javonte Green.

On the defensive end, he gave up quite a few blowbys, he seems pretty decent off the ball, but I don't think he displayed a super great motor on defense (or off ball on offense if it wasn't in the open court).

I think he looks like he's got really good promise, but i think he's going to be really bad out of the gates. I think he's got a lower floor than Pat Williams did as a rookie, because it may be the case that nothing translates and is useful out the gates.

Playing with actual NBA players in a fast paced style led by a creative distributor like Giddey will play to his strengths and make him even better than he was in SL.

And he was already good enough in SL to play on our roster because he has no real competition.

Your post would sound reasonable if we were talking about most other NBA rosters.

[Dan Z]

The only scenario I see him not being playable is if he's just unable to get his shot off against NBA athletes. I don't think that will happen. I think he's ready to play a decent 15-20 minutes a night. His floor as a rookie went up after the SL performances.

I'm not sure what you mean by "playable" exactly. He had a Dalen Terry like shooting performance in summer league. He just had an absolute crap ton of highlight real dunks and displayed a pretty great handle. The handle won't do much until he can finish / shoot so is kind of irrelevant, if you just want some highlight dunks, we could have Javonte Green.

On the defensive end, he gave up quite a few blowbys, he seems pretty decent off the ball, but I don't think he displayed a super great motor on defense (or off ball on offense if it wasn't in the open court).

I think he looks like he's got really good promise, but i think he's going to be really bad out of the gates. I think he's got a lower floor than Pat Williams did as a rookie, because it may be the case that nothing translates and is useful out the gates.

Playing with actual NBA players in a fast paced style led by a creative distributor like Giddey will play to his strengths and make him even better than he was in SL.

And he was already good enough in SL to play on our roster because he has no real competition.

Your post would sound reasonable if we were talking about most other NBA rosters.

I agree. If he's not playing then who gets minutes over him? Craig? Jalen Smith (who will spend some time at the center position)? Jullian Phillips (will he be on the NBA roster?)?

I guess you could play Zach or Giddey at SF and move PW over, but Im not sure that's a good idea.

[Bulliever2020]

Billy is still the coach partly because he is going to do whatever the FO tells him to do. After PW being gifted a starting spot since he was a rookie, I don't see how anyone thinks there isn't going to be a mandate from above to give Matas a ton of entitlement minutes no matter how he looks. I have no doubt he will get plenty of opportunity this year.

[dougthonus]

Playing with actual NBA players in a fast paced style led by a creative distributor like Giddey will play to his strengths and make him even better than he was in SL.

And he was already good enough in SL to play on our roster because he has no real competition.

Your post would sound reasonable if we were talking about most other NBA rosters.

I mean he shot like 35% in summer league and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Playing to his strengths right now seems to be "get him open dunks" which isn't a particularly easy strength to play to, nor one that you couldn't play to for like a gazillion players.

If he's sitting there with like a 48% TS% and you view that as "playable" that's fine. In this season it might be. That's why I used Dalen Terry as an example. I don't expect Matas to be meaningfully more effective than Dalen. I think he'll show more flashes, but his net impact won't be any better. He has obvious gifts in terms of size and ball handling where I can see really good upside, but I'm not sure what he brings to the table right now.

I like the pick, but I think it's going to take him some time.

[WindyCityBorn]

Playing with actual NBA players in a fast paced style led by a creative distributor like Giddey will play to his strengths and make him even better than he was in SL.

And he was already good enough in SL to play on our roster because he has no real competition.

Your post would sound reasonable if we were talking about most other NBA rosters.

I mean he shot like 35% in summer league and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Playing to his strengths right now seems to be "get him open dunks" which isn't a particularly easy strength to play to, nor one that you couldn't play to for like a gazillion players.

If he's sitting there with like a 48% TS% and you view that as "playable" that's fine. In this season it might be. That's why I used Dalen Terry as an example. I don't expect Matas to be meaningfully more effective than Dalen. I think he'll show more flashes, but his net impact won't be any better. He has obvious gifts in terms of size and ball handling where I can see really good upside, but I'm not sure what he brings to the table right now.

I like the pick, but I think it's going to take him some time.

People are expected too much from Matas in year one. If he can give us 15 moderately productive minutes per game that would be great. If we are trying to win he’s not getting major minutes. Still think ceiling is very high though.

[Jcool0]

Playing with actual NBA players in a fast paced style led by a creative distributor like Giddey will play to his strengths and make him even better than he was in SL.

And he was already good enough in SL to play on our roster because he has no real competition.

Your post would sound reasonable if we were talking about most other NBA rosters.

I mean he shot like 35% in summer league and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Playing to his strengths right now seems to be "get him open dunks" which isn't a particularly easy strength to play to, nor one that you couldn't play to for like a gazillion players.

If he's sitting there with like a 48% TS% and you view that as "playable" that's fine. In this season it might be. That's why I used Dalen Terry as an example. I don't expect Matas to be meaningfully more effective than Dalen. I think he'll show more flashes, but his net impact won't be any better. He has obvious gifts in terms of size and ball handling where I can see really good upside, but I'm not sure what he brings to the table right now.

I like the pick, but I think it's going to take him some time.

Basing anything on Summer League is a fool's errand. We have seen future superstars struggle and non NBA guys look like superstars.

[sco]

Playing with actual NBA players in a fast paced style led by a creative distributor like Giddey will play to his strengths and make him even better than he was in SL.

And he was already good enough in SL to play on our roster because he has no real competition.

Your post would sound reasonable if we were talking about most other NBA rosters.

I mean he shot like 35% in summer league and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Playing to his strengths right now seems to be "get him open dunks" which isn't a particularly easy strength to play to, nor one that you couldn't play to for like a gazillion players.

If he's sitting there with like a 48% TS% and you view that as "playable" that's fine. In this season it might be. That's why I used Dalen Terry as an example. I don't expect Matas to be meaningfully more effective than Dalen. I think he'll show more flashes, but his net impact won't be any better. He has obvious gifts in terms of size and ball handling where I can see really good upside, but I'm not sure what he brings to the table right now.

I like the pick, but I think it's going to take him some time.

I think the Terry comparison isn't bad in terms of contribution level to expect. I am interested to see if Terry can take a step forward this season too...looks like he's been working on his game hard, and I root for those guys. The way I see it, playing hard on defense will get young guys on the court. Stupid TO's and fouls will get them yanked. Making 3's will earn them meaningful minutes in the rotation.

[dougthonus]

Basing anything on Summer League is a fool's errand. We have seen future superstars struggle and non NBA guys look like superstars.

I don't think it's common that you see superstars struggle in summer league. Yes, you often see crap players show out and have hot streaks.

However, the summer league just extends his really poor efficiency already in play at the gleague and was a concern coming in. This wasn't new information. Moreover, his misses weren't rimming in and out, his jumper wasn't even close on the many of them. Maybe defensive responsibilities and teamwork will get coached in a lot more later on in training camp, but most young players struggle here.

[Jcool0]

Basing anything on Summer League is a fool's errand. We have seen future superstars struggle and non NBA guys look like superstars.

I don't think it's common that you see superstars struggle in summer league. Yes, you often see crap players show out and have hot streaks.

However, the summer league just extends his really poor efficiency already in play at the gleague and was a concern coming in. This wasn't new information. Moreover, his misses weren't rimming in and out, his jumper wasn't even close on the many of them. Maybe defensive responsibilities and teamwork will get coached in a lot more later on in training camp, but most young players struggle here.

You see it all the time in summer league. Top draft picks shoot terribly because they aren't really running any offense. Brandon Miller shot 31% during summer league from three. He finished his rookie year at 37%. Victor Wembanyama shot 41% in the Summer League and was up to 46% during the NBA season. Paolo Banchero shot 39% in summer league and went on to win Rookie of the Year. On the Bulls front famously Derrick Rose shot under 40% and averaged 9.5 ppg in his one Summer League. On the comparison front Franz Wagner shot 2-13 from 3 and averaged 8 ppg in his Summer League.

[dougthonus]

You see it all the time in summer league. Top draft picks shoot terribly because they aren't really running any offense. Brandon Miller shot 31% during summer league from three. He finished his rookie year at 37%. Victor Wembanyama shot 41% in the Summer League and was up to 46% during the NBA season. Paolo Banchero shot 39% in summer league and went on to win Rookie of the Year. On the Bulls front famously Derrick Rose shot under 40% and averaged 9.5 ppg in his one Summer League. On the comparison front Franz Wagner shot 2-13 from 3 and averaged 8 ppg in his Summer League.

We'll see. I haven't done any research on summer league success recently, the last time I looked into it in depth was probably closer to the 2010 time frame, and at the time there was a pretty good correlation to a poor summer league showing meaning you were likely to struggle in your rookie year (not necessarily in your career). There was no correlation to good performance equating to a good rookie year though, only on the down side.

Not sure how well that has held up, it's obviously a super long time ago that I looked in depth. Either way, watching Matas, I think he's going to struggle a lot his rookie year. I'll be thrilled if he doesn't. I love his potential, but I just think he's far away, and the highlight reel hides that because the highlight reel is awesome.

[Jcool0]

You see it all the time in summer league. Top draft picks shoot terribly because they aren't really running any offense. Brandon Miller shot 31% during summer league from three. He finished his rookie year at 37%. Victor Wembanyama shot 41% in the Summer League and was up to 46% during the NBA season. Paolo Banchero shot 39% in summer league and went on to win Rookie of the Year. On the Bulls front famously Derrick Rose shot under 40% and averaged 9.5 ppg in his one Summer League. On the comparison front Franz Wagner shot 2-13 from 3 and averaged 8 ppg in his Summer League.

We'll see. I haven't done any research on summer league success recently, the last time I looked into it in depth was probably closer to the 2010 time frame, and at the time there was a pretty good correlation to a poor summer league showing meaning you were likely to struggle in your rookie year (not necessarily in your career). There was no correlation to good performance equating to a good rookie year though, only on the down side.

Not sure how well that has held up, it's obviously a super long time ago that I looked in depth. Either way, watching Matas, I think he's going to struggle a lot his rookie year. I'll be thrilled if he doesn't. I love his potential, but I just think he's far away, and the highlight reel hides that because the highlight reel is awesome.

I wish you could get something from Summer League. Doug McDermott was looking like a future All-Star at 18 ppg on 44% from 3 on almost 7 attempts (25 PER). I was all in on him.... Then the regular season started and we all know what happened from there.

[DuckIII]

I don't expect Matas to be meaningfully more effective than Dalen.

If you essentially equate Matas to Terry then that explains your view and we won’t find anything even remotely resembling common ground on that one.

Terry is a purely redundant player who adds nothing this roster does not already have, has no discernible NBA skills at all beyond reasonably solid passing vision and above average defense at 3 positions. And that’s ignoring his physical upside which is considerably below average for wings by NBA standards.

[dougthonus]

I don't expect Matas to be meaningfully more effective than Dalen.

If you essentially equate Matas to Terry then that explains your view and we won’t find anything even remotely resembling common ground on that one.

Terry is a purely redundant player who adds nothing this roster does not already have, has no discernible NBA skills at all beyond reasonably solid passing vision and above average defense at 3 positions. And that’s ignoring his physical upside which is considerably below average for wings by NBA standards.

I don't equate him to Dalen Terry as a prospect. I equate what I think he's ready to do in the NBA as a rookie to Dalen Terry. He's going to be awful defensively, and I don't know what he gives you on offense out the gates.

How do you think he will contribute in his rookie season? What do you think his value proposition will be right away?

[Chi town]

The only scenario I see him not being playable is if he's just unable to get his shot off against NBA athletes. I don't think that will happen. I think he's ready to play a decent 15-20 minutes a night. His floor as a rookie went up after the SL performances.

I'm not sure what you mean by "playable" exactly. He had a Dalen Terry like shooting performance in summer league. He just had an absolute crap ton of highlight real dunks and displayed a pretty great handle. The handle won't do much until he can finish / shoot so is kind of irrelevant, if you just want some highlight dunks, we could have Javonte Green.

On the defensive end, he gave up quite a few blowbys, he seems pretty decent off the ball, but I don't think he displayed a super great motor on defense (or off ball on offense if it wasn't in the open court).

I think he looks like he's got really good promise, but i think he's going to be really bad out of the gates. I think he's got a lower floor than Pat Williams did as a rookie, because it may be the case that nothing translates and is useful out the gates.

Playing with actual NBA players in a fast paced style led by a creative distributor like Giddey will play to his strengths and make him even better than he was in SL.

And he was already good enough in SL to play on our roster because he has no real competition.

Your post would sound reasonable if we were talking about most other NBA rosters.

I think Billy will try to give Buz a small role to teach good habits and expand it from there. Basically, sit in the corner and master the corner 3. Buz will play much more like Javontae than Pat. He will be cutting and crashing and have a much better PG to find him.

Year one Buz will be an energy big/wing. Don’t see him getting many on ball reps. Mostly shoot the 3, fast breaks, and crash the glass. I think that’s all his legs will be able to handle too. His conditioning needs to greatly increase.

[dougthonus]

I think Billy will try to give Buz a small role to teach good habits and expand it from there. Basically, sit in the corner and master the corner 3. Buz will play much more like Javontae than Pat. He will be cutting and crashing and have a much better PG to find him.

Year one Buz will be an energy big/wing. Don’t see him getting many on ball reps. Mostly shoot the 3, fast breaks, and crash the glass. I think that’s all his legs will be able to handle too. His conditioning needs to greatly increase.

Buz didn't really make all that many basket cuts in summer league. Granted, summer league was a poor place to show such activity because there wasn't a good PG, so he may change that behavior with a good passer like Giddey.

Making him shoot corner 3s instead of giving him on-ball reps seems like a disaster, since his best shown ability was penetrating on ball and his wort shown ability was shooting 3s.

[DuckIII]

I don't expect Matas to be meaningfully more effective than Dalen.

If you essentially equate Matas to Terry then that explains your view and we won’t find anything even remotely resembling common ground on that one.

Terry is a purely redundant player who adds nothing this roster does not already have, has no discernible NBA skills at all beyond reasonably solid passing vision and above average defense at 3 positions. And that’s ignoring his physical upside which is considerably below average for wings by NBA standards.

I don't equate him to Dalen Terry as a prospect. I equate what I think he's ready to do in the NBA as a rookie to Dalen Terry.

Which I find equally ridiculous because Terry was barely a second round talent that we reached on Matas still went lottery and even then was under-drafted.

Terry was ass coming in with nothing to offer, and contributed precisely that. Both due to himself and due to a roster construction that did not need the things he could do.

Contrarily:

How do you think he will contribute in his rookie season? What do you think his value proposition will be right away?

Weakside rim protector for Vuc. Extremely high speed above the the rim athlete for his size with a highly polished open court and half court handle, who showed nifty passing chops in multiple scenarios, who projects to fit as a 4 with what we assume - and have been told by the FO and Billy - will be a fast paced offense run by Giddey. Unlike the Terry comp - we have no players other than Matas who fit this player profile.

His baskets will largely be opportunistic rather than being forced in to a primary half court isolation role in SL that he is not ready for.

He will of course have man-to-man defensive struggles and will struggle with his shot and possibly his conditioning as well.

[hb-robo]

Making him shoot corner 3s instead of giving him on-ball reps seems like a disaster, since his best shown ability was penetrating on ball and his wort shown ability was shooting 3s.

This is kind of fundamentally bad player development philosophy. We would like him to become a good shooter; ergo, the team should let him shoot and put him in the best possible shooting opportunities (ie. camping left wing/corner where he can kind of hit).