Summer League Stats

[Spider156]

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/s/v7GJQiJiYP


Stats for Summer League

Anyone doubting Holland should look at these stats. Looks like he’s better than Buzelis (In Summer League) so far.

Interesting stats. We might have hit gold with Holland.

Unlike most fans I’m still sipping the kool aid with every draft we make. New players have nothing to do with previous drafts and coaching regimes. I recommend fans to drop their sore attitudes. Can keep them for Duren’s defense, Ausar’s scoring, Ivey’s efficiency. Don’t mix these rookies with those of the past. Trajan is gonna have an easy time making difficult decisions based on these rookies performance and the ones that are make and break this year. I think we all want our rookies to get better and to prove themselves before speaking about them, it’s good to appreciate the new rookies though. These stats suggest Holland was a real Top 5 pick based on these stats and potential.

[bstein14]

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/s/v7GJQiJiYP


Stats for Summer League

Anyone doubting Holland should look at these stats. Looks like he’s better than Buzelis (In Summer League) so far.

Interesting stats. We might have hit gold with Holland.

Unlike most fans I’m still sipping the kool aid with every draft we make. New players have nothing to do with previous drafts and coaching regimes. I recommend fans to drop their sore attitudes. Can keep them for Duren’s defense, Ausar’s scoring, Ivey’s efficiency. Don’t mix these rookies with those of the past. Trajan is gonna have an easy time making difficult decisions based on these rookies performance and the ones that are make and break this year. I think we all want our rookies to get better and to prove themselves before speaking about them, it’s good to appreciate the new rookies though. These stats suggest Holland was a real Top 5 pick based on these stats and potential.

He shot 24% from deep on 4.3 three-point attempts per game, which was his biggest question mark coming in and its still a massive question mark... in part because we already have a different young wing player in Ausar Thompson who's a better defender and rebounder and he is going to play over Holland and they likely don't fit together.

Don't get me wrong, Holland is a very high upside player but he's a net negative player right now not spacing the floor, is ok on defense but nothing like Ausar was on day one, and is ok with the ball in his hands. He's got a lot of work to do before he's able to come in an take minutes away from some of the guys in front of him.

[Pharaoh]

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/s/v7GJQiJiYP


Stats for Summer League

Anyone doubting Holland should look at these stats. Looks like he’s better than Buzelis (In Summer League) so far.

Interesting stats. We might have hit gold with Holland.

Unlike most fans I’m still sipping the kool aid with every draft we make. New players have nothing to do with previous drafts and coaching regimes. I recommend fans to drop their sore attitudes. Can keep them for Duren’s defense, Ausar’s scoring, Ivey’s efficiency. Don’t mix these rookies with those of the past. Trajan is gonna have an easy time making difficult decisions based on these rookies performance and the ones that are make and break this year. I think we all want our rookies to get better and to prove themselves before speaking about them, it’s good to appreciate the new rookies though. These stats suggest Holland was a real Top 5 pick based on these stats and potential.

Anyone who needed SL play to validate Holland being selected at 5 obviously puts more stock into SL than I do.

Coming out of HS Holland was projected as a top 5 pick.

Hard to believe that in a draft where the top prospects didn't separate themselves from the rest Holland going top 5 is a issue.

Fact we have Ausar shouldn't impact selecting Holland. We can talk about fit all we like but we're projecting who these guys are years from now - not who they are on Draft Day.

In a league where 2way wings are gold having Ausar and Holland could end up being awesome.

Time will tell obviously

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

[Spider156]

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/s/v7GJQiJiYP


Stats for Summer League

Anyone doubting Holland should look at these stats. Looks like he’s better than Buzelis (In Summer League) so far.

Interesting stats. We might have hit gold with Holland.

Unlike most fans I’m still sipping the kool aid with every draft we make. New players have nothing to do with previous drafts and coaching regimes. I recommend fans to drop their sore attitudes. Can keep them for Duren’s defense, Ausar’s scoring, Ivey’s efficiency. Don’t mix these rookies with those of the past. Trajan is gonna have an easy time making difficult decisions based on these rookies performance and the ones that are make and break this year. I think we all want our rookies to get better and to prove themselves before speaking about them, it’s good to appreciate the new rookies though. These stats suggest Holland was a real Top 5 pick based on these stats and potential.

He shot 24% from deep on 4.3 three-point attempts per game, which was his biggest question mark coming in and its still a massive question mark... in part because we already have a different young wing player in Ausar Thompson who's a better defender and rebounder and he is going to play over Holland and they likely don't fit together.

Don't get me wrong, Holland is a very high upside player but he's a net negative player right now not spacing the floor, is ok on defense but nothing like Ausar was on day one, and is ok with the ball in his hands. He's got a lot of work to do before he's able to come in a take minutes away from some of the guys in front of him.

I think you’re higher on Ausar Thompson than I am. I don’t see how his dribbling is any better than Holland’s, it’s not. Ausar can’t score at all. He’s got one shot and it’s dribble inside and fadeaway in the paint. Holland outshines him in every category offensively specially at jump shooting. As far as I can tell Ausar is going the route of Stanley Johnson, thybulle. Kid can’t score or shoot the ball. His post all star numbers from the corner is promising progress but I don’t see the potential offensively. Holland has plenty of potential there and has shown a smooth offensive prowess finishing around the rim, something Ausar Ivey and duren never showed. As for the defense, sure, Ausar’s defense is elite but that doesn’t keep you in the league. If Ausar can’t figure out how to score he’s out of the league. With that said, Ausar doesn’t fit Duren, holland fits duren more. There’s no reason to be having faith in Ausar anymore than holland. I think out of the 4 players duren has the strongest chance to stay in the league and Ivey can be good off the bench. As for Ausar? I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s out in 3 years.

[Cowology]

I would be willing to bet that Holland is able to have a similar impact to Diallo on day 1. Kinda hectic energy, able to score efficiently without having plays run for him. And yeah, doesn't space the floor which is sorta OK in a vacuum but becomes a compound problem in most real lineups.

[Pharaoh]

I would be willing to bet that Holland is able to have a similar impact to Diallo on day 1. Kinda hectic energy, able to score efficiently without having plays run for him. And yeah, doesn't space the floor which is sorta OK in a vacuum but becomes a compound problem in most real lineups.

I'm constantly thinking of real line ups that allow Holland to get "development" minutes as a wing defender:

Cade, Beasley, Holland, Tobias, Stewart

Can put THJ in place of Beasley and Tek in place of Tobias to squeeze more minutes out of Holland assuming he's earned them.

Could even play Cade, Holland, Ausar, Tek or Tobias and Stewart to get Holland & Ausar out there with Cade at the same time.

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[A_dub06]

At the end of the day whoever was drafted 1-4 is irrelevant since we picked at 5, given what we knew then and now, he has the right tools and attitude to become a really good player with the main thing missing being a reliable shot. I think providing the shot isn’t broken (I don’t think Holland’s is), taking this kind of player was the right choice and providing he’s willing to put the work in he has a reasonable chance of panning out. In Vinson I trust!

[Crymson]

Summer League is fun to watch, and that's where it ends. Performance in Summer League means very little.

[Pharaoh]

At the end of the day whoever was drafted 1-4 is irrelevant since we picked at 5, given what we knew then and now, he has the right tools and attitude to become a really good player with the main thing missing being a reliable shot. I think providing the shot isn’t broken (I don’t think Holland’s is), taking this kind of player was the right choice and providing he’s willing to put the work in he has a reasonable chance of panning out. In Vinson I trust!

Exactly

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[Pharaoh]

Summer League is fun to watch, and that's where it ends. Performance in Summer League means very little.

This too

SL means little when we're talking about a teenager.

He has the tools to be something special so we'll find out in due to time

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

[Menace2Sobriety]

Would folks be happy if he turns out to be DeMar DeRosen? That’s who he reminds me of - needs a better shot obviously.

[bstein14]

Year 1 Age 19 = Fringe Rotation Player (10th or 11th man) (27% from deep)
Year 2 Age 20 = Rotation Player (8th or 9th man) still not a net positive player (16 to 18 MPG) (30% from deep)
Year 3 Age 21 = Solid rotation player (6th or 7th man) Improves shooting enough that's he's a positive player (20 to 24 MPG)(33% 3s)
Year 4 Age 22 = 5th starter on a playoff team (26 to 28 MPG). Below average starter but too good to keep on the bench(36% 3pt)

If he takes that path I'd be thrilled. Incremental growth on his shot each year. Being our 5th best starter by year four would be great IMO.

[zeebneeb]

Screw it.

I've been sick as hell for past few days, not doing much but watching clips, previous summer league games, and general highlights of Holland. Trying to get a feel for him as a player.

He is chaotic as hell, and his defender has a tough time, figuring out what he's going to do half of the time. This much I think we can all agree on. He has a knack of getting to the rim, but its the exact opposite of how Cade does it. Cade puts his defender in jail, slyly using multiple screens, and then operates with his defender on his back, then decides what to do.

Ol' Ronny just bulldozes his way to the rim, not caring about contact in the least. Sure he has a euro-step, but his preferred method is taking your ass to the weight room. In transition he's a damn bowling ball, and will go straight up and over you, ankles be damned. There is more nuance to his game then I've described, but he's a chaotic power player. (Julius Randle)

Now what's strange about Holland, is that in shoes, he is every bit of 6'8,(6'6.5 without shoes according to NBA combine measurements)but he moves, and looks like a 2-guard. He uses small rapid steps, instead of big strides, or steps. It bizarre, and has led me to calling him baby legs.

What does all of this mean?

Start him next to Cade. Screw Ivey.

Cade
Holland
Ausar
Harris
Stewart

Hollands defense, while not as good as Ausars, is better then average, and he loves the passing lanes. This would make a formidable 1/2/3 for the opposing team, to try and score on. Switchability is off the charts. Good luck to teams with smaller backcourts, which is the vast majority of the league.

This also gives Cade two ultra athletic lob targets, diving into the lane when he's operating. I included Stewart, as he helps spread the floor, but if either of Holland/Ausar become usable from deep, you can start Duren.

That lineup is defensively oriented, and could be excellent on that end of the floor. The team now has shooters, so at anytime, you can switch out one if Holland/Ausar and go offensively.

A 14 win team doesn't pick top 5, and not play him.

Go for it. Let's see how it works.

[A_dub06]

Screw it.

I've been sick as hell for past few days, not doing much but watching clips, previous summer league games, and general highlights of Holland. Trying to get a feel for him as a player.

He is chaotic as hell, and his defender has a tough time, figuring out what he's going to do half of the time. This much I think we can all agree on. He has a knack of getting to the rim, but its the exact opposite of how Cade does it. Cade puts his defender in jail, slyly using multiple screens, and then operates with his defender on his back, then decides what to do.

Ol' Ronny just bulldozes his way to the rim, not caring about contact in the least. Sure he has a euro-step, but his preferred method is taking your ass to the weight room. In transition he's a damn bowling ball, and will go straight up and over you, ankles be damned. There is more nuance to his game then I've described, but he's a chaotic power player. (Julius Randle)

Now what's strange about Holland, is that in shoes, he is every bit of 6'8,(6'6.5 without shoes according to NBA combine measurements)but he moves, and looks like a 2-guard. He uses small rapid steps, instead of big strides, or steps. It bizarre, and has led me to calling him baby legs.

What does all of this mean?

Start him next to Cade. Screw Ivey.

Cade
Holland
Ausar
Harris
Stewart

Hollands defense, while not as good as Ausars, is better then average, and he loves the passing lanes. This would make a formidable 1/2/3 for the opposing team, to try and score on. Switchability is off the charts. Good luck to teams with smaller backcourts, which is the vast majority of the league.

This also gives Cade two ultra athletic lob targets, diving into the lane when he's operating. I included Stewart, as he helps spread the floor, but if either of Holland/Ausar become usable from deep, you can start Duren.

That lineup is defensively oriented, and could be excellent on that end of the floor. The team now has shooters, so at anytime, you can switch out one if Holland/Ausar and go offensively.

A 14 win team doesn't pick top 5, and not play him.

Go for it. Let's see how it works.

There’s the optimistic Zeeb we know! I agree somewhat with your analysis but I do think Holland also has a smoothness to his game despite using bully tactics. When he gets downhill he’s quite the force to the rim and while the 3 point shot wasn’t great in summer league, I don’t think you watch his form and vomit like the way you would with Thompson’s, so I think he shows more of an ability to grow as a shooter. I almost think it would be better to start the game off with Holland on the court and bring Thompson off the bench so Thompson can work on his offensive game whereas Holland has been playing with a badly run G-league team that had no sense of structure or clearly defined roles. This would also mean we only have one non-shooter in the starting 5 and then bring in Ivey, TH jnr or Beasley (whichever doesn’t start), Thompson, Tec and Duren as the backups.

Despite Stew starting I wouldn’t play him more than 20ish mins and still allow Duren to eat most of the minutes, and Thompson should get more time than Holland too. I really believe whilst we have shooting now, none of the guys should play heavy minutes over the youngsters outside of Tec/Harris. TH, Beasley and even Reed should only be there to provide support to the young guys so they can play without being out in terrible positions.

[Invictus88]

Screw it.

I've been sick as hell for past few days, not doing much but watching clips, previous summer league games, and general highlights of Holland. Trying to get a feel for him as a player.

He is chaotic as hell, and his defender has a tough time, figuring out what he's going to do half of the time. This much I think we can all agree on. He has a knack of getting to the rim, but its the exact opposite of how Cade does it. Cade puts his defender in jail, slyly using multiple screens, and then operates with his defender on his back, then decides what to do.

Ol' Ronny just bulldozes his way to the rim, not caring about contact in the least. Sure he has a euro-step, but his preferred method is taking your ass to the weight room. In transition he's a damn bowling ball, and will go straight up and over you, ankles be damned. There is more nuance to his game then I've described, but he's a chaotic power player. (Julius Randle)

Now what's strange about Holland, is that in shoes, he is every bit of 6'8,(6'6.5 without shoes according to NBA combine measurements)but he moves, and looks like a 2-guard. He uses small rapid steps, instead of big strides, or steps. It bizarre, and has led me to calling him baby legs.

What does all of this mean?

Start him next to Cade. Screw Ivey.

Cade
Holland
Ausar
Harris
Stewart

Hollands defense, while not as good as Ausars, is better then average, and he loves the passing lanes. This would make a formidable 1/2/3 for the opposing team, to try and score on. Switchability is off the charts. Good luck to teams with smaller backcourts, which is the vast majority of the league.

This also gives Cade two ultra athletic lob targets, diving into the lane when he's operating. I included Stewart, as he helps spread the floor, but if either of Holland/Ausar become usable from deep, you can start Duren.

That lineup is defensively oriented, and could be excellent on that end of the floor. The team now has shooters, so at anytime, you can switch out one if Holland/Ausar and go offensively.

A 14 win team doesn't pick top 5, and not play him.

Go for it. Let's see how it works.

There’s the optimistic Zeeb we know! I agree somewhat with your analysis but I do think Holland also has a smoothness to his game despite using bully tactics. When he gets downhill he’s quite the force to the rim and while the 3 point shot wasn’t great in summer league, I don’t think you watch his form and vomit like the way you would with Thompson’s, so I think he shows more of an ability to grow as a shooter. I almost think it would be better to start the game off with Holland on the court and bring Thompson off the bench so Thompson can work on his offensive game whereas Holland has been playing with a badly run G-league team that had no sense of structure or clearly defined roles. This would also mean we only have one non-shooter in the starting 5 and then bring in Ivey, TH jnr or Beasley (whichever doesn’t start), Thompson, Tec and Duren as the backups.

Despite Stew starting I wouldn’t play him more than 20ish mins and still allow Duren to eat most of the minutes, and Thompson should get more time than Holland too. I really believe whilst we have shooting now, none of the guys should play heavy minutes over the youngsters outside of Tec/Harris. TH, Beasley and even Reed should only be there to provide support to the young guys so they can play without being out in terrible positions.

Stewart doesn't help space the floor. We saw that all last year. Cade will face doubles and triples and the remaining players will just pack in the paint. Ausar, Stew and Holland will stand next to tumbleweeds on the perimeter.

At least with Duren there you would have a player of size and leaping ability to both muscle his way through all of the inevitable bodies and get rebounds in a half court offense. But I think it's just a mistake to start so many poor shooters; especially when your 5 can't shoot or isn't respected by the defense as a shooter.

There's no pressure on Holland. Why not give him a bunch of minutes in the G-league to further refine his shooting and knock off the rust before throwing him to the wolves? Especially against starting lineups...

[zeebneeb]

Screw it.

I've been sick as hell for past few days, not doing much but watching clips, previous summer league games, and general highlights of Holland. Trying to get a feel for him as a player.

He is chaotic as hell, and his defender has a tough time, figuring out what he's going to do half of the time. This much I think we can all agree on. He has a knack of getting to the rim, but its the exact opposite of how Cade does it. Cade puts his defender in jail, slyly using multiple screens, and then operates with his defender on his back, then decides what to do.

Ol' Ronny just bulldozes his way to the rim, not caring about contact in the least. Sure he has a euro-step, but his preferred method is taking your ass to the weight room. In transition he's a damn bowling ball, and will go straight up and over you, ankles be damned. There is more nuance to his game then I've described, but he's a chaotic power player. (Julius Randle)

Now what's strange about Holland, is that in shoes, he is every bit of 6'8,(6'6.5 without shoes according to NBA combine measurements)but he moves, and looks like a 2-guard. He uses small rapid steps, instead of big strides, or steps. It bizarre, and has led me to calling him baby legs.

What does all of this mean?

Start him next to Cade. Screw Ivey.

Cade
Holland
Ausar
Harris
Stewart

Hollands defense, while not as good as Ausars, is better then average, and he loves the passing lanes. This would make a formidable 1/2/3 for the opposing team, to try and score on. Switchability is off the charts. Good luck to teams with smaller backcourts, which is the vast majority of the league.

This also gives Cade two ultra athletic lob targets, diving into the lane when he's operating. I included Stewart, as he helps spread the floor, but if either of Holland/Ausar become usable from deep, you can start Duren.

That lineup is defensively oriented, and could be excellent on that end of the floor. The team now has shooters, so at anytime, you can switch out one if Holland/Ausar and go offensively.

A 14 win team doesn't pick top 5, and not play him.

Go for it. Let's see how it works.

There’s the optimistic Zeeb we know! I agree somewhat with your analysis but I do think Holland also has a smoothness to his game despite using bully tactics. When he gets downhill he’s quite the force to the rim and while the 3 point shot wasn’t great in summer league, I don’t think you watch his form and vomit like the way you would with Thompson’s, so I think he shows more of an ability to grow as a shooter. I almost think it would be better to start the game off with Holland on the court and bring Thompson off the bench so Thompson can work on his offensive game whereas Holland has been playing with a badly run G-league team that had no sense of structure or clearly defined roles. This would also mean we only have one non-shooter in the starting 5 and then bring in Ivey, TH jnr or Beasley (whichever doesn’t start), Thompson, Tec and Duren as the backups.

Despite Stew starting I wouldn’t play him more than 20ish mins and still allow Duren to eat most of the minutes, and Thompson should get more time than Holland too. I really believe whilst we have shooting now, none of the guys should play heavy minutes over the youngsters outside of Tec/Harris. TH, Beasley and even Reed should only be there to provide support to the young guys so they can play without being out in terrible positions.

Oh for sure Holland has more to his game, but being 19(just!)means it will develope over time, so he resorts to straight strength meanwhile.

This team is loaded with high-end talent. I will not deny that, and I haven't. My misery soley stems from having 5 square pegs, and trying to create a circle. Its just not going to work. Its maddening.

JB has an insane challenge on his hands if you really break it down;

Talent? Check.
Athleticism? Check.
Players with motors? Check.
Switchability? Check.
Shooting? Check.

Lineups that make sense in todays NBA? Yeah, not so much.

His job is going to be delicately weighing what is needed from game to game, timeout to timeout, and being ready to pull a player, in favor of another on a moments notice if their shot isn't falling, or if their defense isnt up to par that game. Its crazy.

Usually rotations from coaches like JB are set within the first 20 something games. Not this time. I'd be willing to be that by game 50, he will be using, on the regular, 11 guys.

[Snakebites]

You know why you need a poorly formatted Reddit post to observe summer league stats in this way?

Because most understand that they don’t actually matter, so they weren’t otherwise compiled.

[Invictus88]

You know why you need a poorly formatted Reddit post to observe summer league stats in this way?

Because most understand that they don’t actually matter, so they weren’t otherwise compiled.

No posts anywhere in our forum since this one. Way to kill the vibe man! (j/k)

When does the preseason start again?

[Canadafan]

Read on Twitter

?t=gE_OZO_m7lF4RnpalHAlCA&s=19

[A_dub06]

Screw it.

I've been sick as hell for past few days, not doing much but watching clips, previous summer league games, and general highlights of Holland. Trying to get a feel for him as a player.

He is chaotic as hell, and his defender has a tough time, figuring out what he's going to do half of the time. This much I think we can all agree on. He has a knack of getting to the rim, but its the exact opposite of how Cade does it. Cade puts his defender in jail, slyly using multiple screens, and then operates with his defender on his back, then decides what to do.

Ol' Ronny just bulldozes his way to the rim, not caring about contact in the least. Sure he has a euro-step, but his preferred method is taking your ass to the weight room. In transition he's a damn bowling ball, and will go straight up and over you, ankles be damned. There is more nuance to his game then I've described, but he's a chaotic power player. (Julius Randle)

Now what's strange about Holland, is that in shoes, he is every bit of 6'8,(6'6.5 without shoes according to NBA combine measurements)but he moves, and looks like a 2-guard. He uses small rapid steps, instead of big strides, or steps. It bizarre, and has led me to calling him baby legs.

What does all of this mean?

Start him next to Cade. Screw Ivey.

Cade
Holland
Ausar
Harris
Stewart

Hollands defense, while not as good as Ausars, is better then average, and he loves the passing lanes. This would make a formidable 1/2/3 for the opposing team, to try and score on. Switchability is off the charts. Good luck to teams with smaller backcourts, which is the vast majority of the league.

This also gives Cade two ultra athletic lob targets, diving into the lane when he's operating. I included Stewart, as he helps spread the floor, but if either of Holland/Ausar become usable from deep, you can start Duren.

That lineup is defensively oriented, and could be excellent on that end of the floor. The team now has shooters, so at anytime, you can switch out one if Holland/Ausar and go offensively.

A 14 win team doesn't pick top 5, and not play him.

Go for it. Let's see how it works.

There’s the optimistic Zeeb we know! I agree somewhat with your analysis but I do think Holland also has a smoothness to his game despite using bully tactics. When he gets downhill he’s quite the force to the rim and while the 3 point shot wasn’t great in summer league, I don’t think you watch his form and vomit like the way you would with Thompson’s, so I think he shows more of an ability to grow as a shooter. I almost think it would be better to start the game off with Holland on the court and bring Thompson off the bench so Thompson can work on his offensive game whereas Holland has been playing with a badly run G-league team that had no sense of structure or clearly defined roles. This would also mean we only have one non-shooter in the starting 5 and then bring in Ivey, TH jnr or Beasley (whichever doesn’t start), Thompson, Tec and Duren as the backups.

Despite Stew starting I wouldn’t play him more than 20ish mins and still allow Duren to eat most of the minutes, and Thompson should get more time than Holland too. I really believe whilst we have shooting now, none of the guys should play heavy minutes over the youngsters outside of Tec/Harris. TH, Beasley and even Reed should only be there to provide support to the young guys so they can play without being out in terrible positions.

Stewart doesn't help space the floor. We saw that all last year. Cade will face doubles and triples and the remaining players will just pack in the paint. Ausar, Stew and Holland will stand next to tumbleweeds on the perimeter.

At least with Duren there you would have a player of size and leaping ability to both muscle his way through all of the inevitable bodies and get rebounds in a half court offense. But I think it's just a mistake to start so many poor shooters; especially when your 5 can't shoot or isn't respected by the defense as a shooter.

There's no pressure on Holland. Why not give him a bunch of minutes in the G-league to further refine his shooting and knock off the rust before throwing him to the wolves? Especially against starting lineups...

Stew is already shooting at a decent clip, it’s just his volume that needs to increase which I could see him taking another step forward there. That would make teams more likely to defend him on the paint giving us the spacing we need, but yeah duren still needs time to develop too, there’s too many instances where he seems not interested in defending which I hope JB used against him to the point he’s getting benched if he Downey show effort.

Not sure how much you paid attention to the G-league Ignite but the team was an absolute shite show this year with too many players needing time at the same position, no clearly defined roles or even a real pg on the team which resulted into selfish, chaotic and bad habits. I don’t think that’s the type of system Holland should be thrown back into.