Miami Heat Summer League 2024 Thread

[DayofMourning]

I'm much more interested in skillset discussions personally.

Thats whats up. How do the skillsets of the players we have augment the others? You stated "force multiplier" in a previous post. Thats where these guys success lies.

How much better can we be when we have a last line of defense that isnt Bam? If Ware can work behind the scenes to grow stronger during the RS, he could be ready late in the year to play with Bam, and boy am I ready for that. Bam wont have to expend as much energy. He will have more legs for offense. Force multiplier.

I'm hoping Ware can give us late season what Lively gave the Mavs. I'd love to see a clamp lineup of JRich, HH, Jimmy, Bam, Ware.

I was a fan of Lively last draft like I was for Ware this year. Lively is the more nuanced defender and Ware the better offensive player. If Ware can beef up his physique, his base defense should improve. Hes not advanced enough as an athlete yet. We will get him there I think.

Lots of lineup variations Im excited for. Rozier, Jaime, Jovic, Bam and Ware is one. The "expectations" lineup.

[Beenie]

Jovic playing center now?

Spo’s rotations are often a riddle so I can’t say with full confidence that I’m sure about this take.

I expect that the year will kick off featuring the same front court of Bam, Jovic n Jimmy.

That said, it seems sound to think that the Ware/Bam lineup is the grand vision and we can assume Bam will get his regular diet of minutes but in a hybrid role that morphs between C and PF.

I personally don’t see Jovic getting much run in some ultra tall lineup with him at SF or Guard, certainly not for meaningful sustained minutes; perhaps experimentally when the roster short handed or maybe in blow out games.

I just don’t see Ware getting a ton of minutes if Jovic is playing ton.

And this doesn’t factor in Highsmith and at some point possibly Keshad in Spo’s small ball rotations which I don’t expect him to just philosophically abandon overnight.

Bam played 20 mpg as a rookie and 23 mpg as a second year player. Jovic played 13 mpg as a rookie (15 total games) and 20 mpg as a second year player (46 total games).

There are 96 minutes available per game for the PF and C positions. There were only 15 frontcourt players in the entire NBA 6'10 or taller that played over 30 mpg last season.

The conflict between how Bam, Jovic, and Ware can fit together in a frontcourt rotation is much ado about nothing IMO. Especially for next season.

I'm much more interested in skillset discussions personally.

Going back to the original question which was if Ware will have a better rookie season than his fellow draft class bigs. My contention is in order for that to even have a chance at happening, he would need to play more minutes than what Im currently expecting him to and if he does play more minutes, it’ll likely have to come at the expense of Jovic, imo.

Sarr, Clingan, and Edey I suspect will all get more playing time than Ware which lends itself to the idea that Ware will be unlikely to outperform them as a rookie.

Injuries can happen and change the situations, of course.

[AirP.]

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[Bishop45]

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[gom]

Good chance Johnson gets converted to full nba contract and the 15th roster spot after training camp. Stevens may get converted to a 2 way. Richardson might be rehabbing the start of the season giving Stevens some burn early.

Leaving Williams, Christopher and Smith for the last two two ways. Smith I believe was signed out of courtesy for helping him get paid during his rehab.


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They can’t sign anyone right now until January or else they breach the 2nd apron. Going over that apron is not going to be worth signing an extra two way lol. They will have to make a trade.

Ok they are that close to the apron? Dang

Miami is $1,215,473 below the 2nd apron. A rookie contract (Pullin, Keshad Johnson, Isaiah Stephens) is $1,157,143. Signing Dru Smith, Alondes Williams, or Josh Christopher costs $1,862,265. Cole Swider: $2,087,519. Values are prorated over 174 days.

Code: Select all

   Name Yrs of Service   2024-2025 sal   daily   days to pay   Legal Signing Date
Isaiah Stevens         0   $1,157,153          $6,650   183   10/13/24
Keshad Johnson         0   $1,157,153          $6,650   183   10/13/24
Zyon Pullin         0   $1,157,153          $6,650   183   10/13/24
Dru Smith              1      $1,862,265     $10,703   114   02/12/25
Josh Christopher     1   $1,862,265        $10,703   114   02/12/25
Cole Swider         2   $2,087,519        $11,997   101   02/24/25
Alondes Williams     1   $1,862,265        $10,703   114   02/12/25


edit: sorry, I've still no idea to get this formatting right on realgm.
edit 2: 2025!

[gom]

Ideally, Miami would sign 3 of Josh Christopher/Cole Swider/Dru Smith/Alondes Williams to 2 way contracts and convert one of them later in the season to a regular contract, promoting one to a regular NBA contract. My preferred player is Keshad Johnson, who I see as having more chance in the rotation. Done this way, we would maintain flexibility to sign any of these players. On the other hand, any team can offer them a contract.

As far as need is concerned:

Christopher - many of the same skills as Rozier, Herro, etc (but our players are better)
Swider - same skill set as Robinson before he added more to his game
Smith - good guard defense for backing up Rozier, important
Williams - good guard defense, better offense than Smith, has not played well though

I would choose between Williams and Smith, then add Swider and Christopher. Sign the best player at the trade deadline so they can play in the postseason. A lot can change though.

[DayofMourning]

They can’t sign anyone right now until January or else they breach the 2nd apron. Going over that apron is not going to be worth signing an extra two way lol. They will have to make a trade.

Ok they are that close to the apron? Dang

Miami is $1,215,473 below the 2nd apron. A rookie contract (Pullin, Keshad Johnson, Isaiah Stephens) is $1,157,143. Signing Dru Smith, Alondes Williams, or Josh Christopher costs $1,862,265. Cole Swider: $2,087,519. Values are prorated over 174 days.

Code: Select all

   Name Yrs of Service   2024-2025 sal   daily   days to pay   Legal Signing Date
Isaiah Stevens         0   $1,157,153          $6,650   183   10/13/24
Keshad Johnson         0   $1,157,153          $6,650   183   10/13/24
Zyon Pullin         0   $1,157,153          $6,650   183   10/13/24
Dru Smith              1      $1,862,265     $10,703   114   02/12/24
Josh Christopher     1   $1,862,265        $10,703   114   02/12/24
Cole Swider         2   $2,087,519        $11,997   101   02/24/24
Alondes Williams     1   $1,862,265        $10,703   114   02/12/24


edit: sorry, I've still no idea to get this formatting right on realgm.

How will keeping our 2 ways work moving forward?

How do we plan on keeping these guys on the roster whilst operating with such slim margins?

[gom]

Ok they are that close to the apron? Dang

Miami is $1,215,473 below the 2nd apron. A rookie contract (Pullin, Keshad Johnson, Isaiah Stephens) is $1,157,143. Signing Dru Smith, Alondes Williams, or Josh Christopher costs $1,862,265. Cole Swider: $2,087,519. Values are prorated over 174 days.

Code: Select all

   Name Yrs of Service   2024-2025 sal   daily   days to pay   Legal Signing Date
Isaiah Stevens         0   $1,157,153          $6,650   183   10/13/24
Keshad Johnson         0   $1,157,153          $6,650   183   10/13/24
Zyon Pullin         0   $1,157,153          $6,650   183   10/13/24
Dru Smith              1      $1,862,265     $10,703   114   02/12/25
Josh Christopher     1   $1,862,265        $10,703   114   02/12/25
Cole Swider         2   $2,087,519        $11,997   101   02/24/25
Alondes Williams     1   $1,862,265        $10,703   114   02/12/25


edit: sorry, I've still no idea to get this formatting right on realgm.

How will keeping our 2 ways work moving forward?

How do we plan on keeping these guys on the roster whilst operating with such slim margins?

We can only control 3 players. Offer them 2-ways, promote one in February and add another 2-way later. Keep one more day of salary free to sign a player on the last day of the season to do the same we did with Nunn. Gives RFA.

Trade deadline: Feb. 6, 2025: NBA Trade Deadline (3 p.m. ET)

[gom]

arggh, all my dates are 2024, should be 2025. sorry.

edit: fixed.

Note: I used Spotrac for my data. I also pulled the guarantee for Pullin (it's non-guaranteed)

salary/cap-hit



Extend the 2-way to Christopher, Smith, & Swider, because it gives us experienced players without significant cap hit (2-way players have no cap hit). Promote one player in Feb 2024 and add another 2-way player from the list. Of course, the team needs are more important. It's important to recognize no matter how these guys played that it will be hard to get rotation minutes on a team as deep as Miami.

Remember also that Christopher's stint in Houston last season means he will only be able to get signed for Early Bird exception (assuming he works out). Sort of a balance there, right? Beverly was our player and went to Houston.

[DayofMourning]

We can only control 3 players. Offer them 2-ways, promote one in February and add another 2-way later. Keep one more day of salary free to sign a player on the last day of the season to do the same we did with Nunn. Gives RFA.

Trade deadline: Feb. 6, 2025: NBA Trade Deadline (3 p.m. ET)

Youre so good, gom.

So, we can in fact keep all our 3 ways based on timing of their deals? No 2nd apron nonsense?

[gom]

We can only control 3 players. Offer them 2-ways, promote one in February and add another 2-way later. Keep one more day of salary free to sign a player on the last day of the season to do the same we did with Nunn. Gives RFA.

Trade deadline: Feb. 6, 2025: NBA Trade Deadline (3 p.m. ET)

Youre so good, gom.

So, we can in fact keep all our 3 ways based on timing of their deals? No 2nd apron nonsense?

We have to still choose who gets the 3-ways and count on the players not getting a better deal from another team. We can sign 3 players (I would choose Smith (or Williams), Christopher, and Swider) then promote one to a regular nba contract (prioritizing postseason needs). We can then extend an offer to another player for a two-way. The others are waived and picked up by the Sky Force.

[DayofMourning]

We can only control 3 players. Offer them 2-ways, promote one in February and add another 2-way later. Keep one more day of salary free to sign a player on the last day of the season to do the same we did with Nunn. Gives RFA.

Trade deadline: Feb. 6, 2025: NBA Trade Deadline (3 p.m. ET)

Youre so good, gom.

So, we can in fact keep all our 3 ways based on timing of their deals? No 2nd apron nonsense?

We have to still choose who gets the 3-ways and count on the players not getting a better deal from another team. We can sign 3 players (I would choose Smith (or Williams), Christopher, and Swider) then promote one to a regular nba contract (prioritizing postseason needs). We can then extend an offer to another player for a two-way. The others are waived and picked up by the Sky Force.

Awesome stuff.

I, and many others, have identified Keshad as a two wayer. You dont share that sentiment. Not a fan?

[gom]

Youre so good, gom.

So, we can in fact keep all our 3 ways based on timing of their deals? No 2nd apron nonsense?

We have to still choose who gets the 3-ways and count on the players not getting a better deal from another team. We can sign 3 players (I would choose Smith (or Williams), Christopher, and Swider) then promote one to a regular nba contract (prioritizing postseason needs). We can then extend an offer to another player for a two-way. The others are waived and picked up by the Sky Force.

Awesome stuff.

I, and many others, have identified Keshad as a two wayer. You dont share that sentiment. Not a fan?

Yes, precious, we loves his game, we does. But it will be hard, very hard, to get him minutes, yesss. Our guard position is weak, precious, so weak. We are hopeful, yes, hopeful about getting Ware into the rotation, we are. But Larsson, no, not much chance right away, precious. After some g-league games, maybe, yes, maybe he can be a rotation player too.

Starters, precious: Rozier, Herro, Butler, Jovic, Bam.
Rotation Players, yesss: Jaquez, Highsmith, Robinson, Love, Burks.
One of Ware or Bryant backing up Bam, precious (Bryant first, then Ware, yesss?).
Larsson starts in G-League, yesss.
Richardson is out, precious.
2-way: (3) Christopher (if possible), Smith (recuperating) or Williams, Swider.

Start in Sioux Falls, yes: Keshad Johnson, Isaiah Stevens, Zion Pullin.

In February, promote a 2-way to 15th space, move a player from Sioux Falls, precious (could be Johnson?) to 2-way.

Did you knows, precious? Burks is 6'5" and 214 lbs?

Anyway, one of the jobs this season, precious, is to make an NBA point guard who can back up or lead the team if necessary, yesss. We are not sold, no, not sold on Herro, Jaquez, Butler, or Jovic in this role. It tires Butler, yes, and makes him less effective, precious. We wants a lockdown defender, yes, fast enough to haul ass downcourt on defense, get steals with quick handses, and on offense be a credible 3-pt shooter who can pass the ball (2:1 or better asst/TO ratio) and also get to the rim. That's not too much to ask, is it, precious?

[DayofMourning]

[Wiltside]

I think we finally broke gom

[marson]

gom got hacked

[AirP.]

Watch on YouTube

[gom]

gom got hacked

Last season was tough.

On a happy note, though, XMEN AND WOLVERINE is in 42 hours.

[RexBoyWonder]

We have to still choose who gets the 3-ways and count on the players not getting a better deal from another team. We can sign 3 players (I would choose Smith (or Williams), Christopher, and Swider) then promote one to a regular nba contract (prioritizing postseason needs). We can then extend an offer to another player for a two-way. The others are waived and picked up by the Sky Force.

Awesome stuff.

I, and many others, have identified Keshad as a two wayer. You dont share that sentiment. Not a fan?

Yes, precious, we loves his game, we does. But it will be hard, very hard, to get him minutes, yesss. Our guard position is weak, precious, so weak. We are hopeful, yes, hopeful about getting Ware into the rotation, we are. But Larsson, no, not much chance right away, precious. After some g-league games, maybe, yes, maybe he can be a rotation player too.

Starters, precious: Rozier, Herro, Butler, Jovic, Bam.
Rotation Players, yesss: Jaquez, Highsmith, Robinson, Love, Burks.
One of Ware or Bryant backing up Bam, precious (Bryant first, then Ware, yesss?).
Larsson starts in G-League, yesss.
Richardson is out, precious.
2-way: (3) Christopher (if possible), Smith (recuperating) or Williams, Swider.

Start in Sioux Falls, yes: Keshad Johnson, Isaiah Stevens, Zion Pullin.

In February, promote a 2-way to 15th space, move a player from Sioux Falls, precious (could be Johnson?) to 2-way.

Did you knows, precious? Burks is 6'5" and 214 lbs?

Anyway, one of the jobs this season, precious, is to make an NBA point guard who can back up or lead the team if necessary, yesss. We are not sold, no, not sold on Herro, Jaquez, Butler, or Jovic in this role. It tires Butler, yes, and makes him less effective, precious. We wants a lockdown defender, yes, fast enough to haul ass downcourt on defense, get steals with quick handses, and on offense be a credible 3-pt shooter who can pass the ball (2:1 or better asst/TO ratio) and also get to the rim. That's not too much to ask, is it, precious?

Got to love summertime GOM

[greg4012]

Spo’s rotations are often a riddle so I can’t say with full confidence that I’m sure about this take.

I expect that the year will kick off featuring the same front court of Bam, Jovic n Jimmy.

That said, it seems sound to think that the Ware/Bam lineup is the grand vision and we can assume Bam will get his regular diet of minutes but in a hybrid role that morphs between C and PF.

I personally don’t see Jovic getting much run in some ultra tall lineup with him at SF or Guard, certainly not for meaningful sustained minutes; perhaps experimentally when the roster short handed or maybe in blow out games.

I just don’t see Ware getting a ton of minutes if Jovic is playing ton.

And this doesn’t factor in Highsmith and at some point possibly Keshad in Spo’s small ball rotations which I don’t expect him to just philosophically abandon overnight.

Bam played 20 mpg as a rookie and 23 mpg as a second year player. Jovic played 13 mpg as a rookie (15 total games) and 20 mpg as a second year player (46 total games).

There are 96 minutes available per game for the PF and C positions. There were only 15 frontcourt players in the entire NBA 6'10 or taller that played over 30 mpg last season.

The conflict between how Bam, Jovic, and Ware can fit together in a frontcourt rotation is much ado about nothing IMO. Especially for next season.

I'm much more interested in skillset discussions personally.

Going back to the original question which was if Ware will have a better rookie season than his fellow draft class bigs. My contention is in order for that to even have a chance at happening, he would need to play more minutes than what Im currently expecting him to and if he does play more minutes, it’ll likely have to come at the expense of Jovic, imo.

Sarr, Clingan, and Edey I suspect will all get more playing time than Ware which lends itself to the idea that Ware will be unlikely to outperform them as a rookie.

Injuries can happen and change the situations, of course.

Each of Sarr, Clingan and Edey are definitely in situations where their teams are starved for talent in the frontcourt and will likely force them into more playing time as a result. I get that.

I still don't believe that if Ware earns more minutes it has to come at the expense of Jovic. Bam is versatile enough to play with both. Ware will be exclusively playing Center. Jovic should never really be playing center. Bam plays with both.

There were 4 7-foot+ players that averaged 30+ mpg last season in the entire NBA. 7 footers need extra conditioning to play advanced minutes in the NBA. Even the generational Wemby was on a minute restriction as a rookie. Even if Ware somehow became a 25 mpg guy next season (not gonna happen absent bad injury luck), Jovic should still have his minutes so long as he warrants them.

Jovic (28) - Bam (12) - Other PF (8)
Bam (23) - Ware (25)