Around the League - Beasley Boogies to Detroit

[paulpressey25]

Alright, ESPN did their top 25 players of the 2000’s, and here’s the top group. Pretty crappy start, imo.

1) Lebron
2) Kobe
3) Steph
4) Duncan
5) Shaq
6) KG
7) Jokic
8) Wade
9) KD
10) Dirk
11) Giannis

The one I'd take exception with is Wade. That would move Giannis into the top ten.

Giannis vaulting over KD as a better player in NBA history needs to be validated by the media first. Giannis has to write that chapter next season.

[chonestown]

Kobe, KG, Shaq and Dirk are rated too highly.

Shaq had 3.5 years of ELITE play in the 2000s and then time swooped in and made him mortal. Embiid's a better choice, honestly.

[Ron Swanson]

KD still getting rated over Giannis in any historical context is legitimately hilarious.

Giannis vaulting over KD as a better player in NBA history needs to be validated by the media first. Giannis has to write that chapter next season.

No he doesn't, because he already is. That ship sailed the second Giannis put together a Finals series carry-job that KD was never physically capable of. The media can spin the narrative all they want. Even casual NBA fans just kinda shrug when we talk about KD's rings with Golden State. Nobody cares.

[German Athens]

I think KG has become one of the most overrated players of last generation who’s largely benefited from nba nerds like us propping him up since his career ended.

In my opinion a lot of this is due to his perceived portability to the modern era, but a lot of the theoretical projection isn’t so far off what people have done in the AD - Giannis comparison.

KG - AD - Giannis.

They have similar frames and mobility, but KG and AD have better touch on their jumpers. They can all play make to some degree with KG and Giannis being a step ahead of AD. I think this is generally what people do on their surface level comparisons.

I think the projection that people often do with KG starts with how Giannis has dominated the league, and there’s a strong misunderstanding and undervaluing of Giannis and just what makes him great. AD and KG were finesse players. Giannis is not. Neither AD nor KG are as strong of athletes, or as graceful with the ball in their hands, but the biggest differentiator is how unrelenting Giannis is on the court. I don’t think anyone really compares to him in this regard. He’s one of one.

I think KG likely would improve as an offensive player in today’s league, but not good enough to be a number 1 option on a team that wins it all, and I think his defensive value would go down in a spaced out court where more of the actions are farther away from him.

Regardless of all the above, a player’s all-time ranking has to look at what they accomplished in their era and how they actually compared to their peers, since that’s the only thing that actually happened.

He was a 4 time first team all nba member. He won an MVP and DPOY, and 1 title. Those are great, but not to the level that he’s been rated at over the last decade.

[Wonka]

One more ring is going to do wonders for Giannis’ legacy. All this stupid talk will just be dust in the wind.

[MiltownMadness]

Kobe should never be above Duncan and that KG rating is egregious, I agree NBA nerds have propped KG up way too much. He has already been surpassed by Giannis

[emunney]

Alright, ESPN did their top 25 players of the 2000’s, and here’s the top group. Pretty crappy start, imo.

1) Lebron
2) Kobe
3) Steph
4) Duncan
5) Shaq
6) KG
7) Jokic
8) Wade
9) KD
10) Dirk
11) Giannis

The one I'd take exception with is Wade. That would move Giannis into the top ten.

Giannis vaulting over KD as a better player in NBA history needs to be validated by the media first. Giannis has to write that chapter next season.

I think the top 4 is pretty solid, especially if you're thinking about it more holistically. Like, the league has publicly revolved around those guys for the past couple decades. I would argue that Shaq, KG, Giannis, and Jokic should come before anybody else, as at no point were KD, Dirk, or Wade ever the best player in the league or any serious conversations about it, while Jokic and Giannis have been in the thick of that for quite a while now. You could throw in Embiid if he had any playoff success, but he doesn't, alas.

[Jimmmycrackcorn]

One more ring is going to do wonders for Giannis’ legacy. All this stupid talk will just be dust in the wind.

Or beating Team USA in the Olympics

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Kobe, KG, Shaq and Dirk are rated too highly.

Shaq had 3.5 years of ELITE play in the 2000s and then time swooped in and made him mortal. Embiid's a better choice, honestly.

What do you consider ELITE? He had ten seasons clearly a top 10 player. Probably 5+ as a top 5 player. Granted he was a center but he had 8 first team All-NBA.....and he one 4 championships and led a young Magic team to a finals in another.

[ReasonablySober]

Kobe, KG, Shaq and Dirk are rated too highly.

Shaq had 3.5 years of ELITE play in the 2000s and then time swooped in and made him mortal. Embiid's a better choice, honestly.

What do you consider ELITE? He had ten seasons clearly a top 10 player. Probably 5+ as a top 5 player. Granted he was a center but he had 8 first team All-NBA.....and he one 4 championships and led a young Magic team to a finals in another.

The list only included their play in the 2000s.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Kobe, KG, Shaq and Dirk are rated too highly.

Shaq had 3.5 years of ELITE play in the 2000s and then time swooped in and made him mortal. Embiid's a better choice, honestly.

What do you consider ELITE? He had ten seasons clearly a top 10 player. Probably 5+ as a top 5 player. Granted he was a center but he had 8 first team All-NBA.....and he one 4 championships and led a young Magic team to a finals in another.

The list only included their play in the 2000s.

Ah I misunderstood. Then it just becomes a peak/rings debate. 4 rings is tough to compete against.

[ReasonablySober]

Dirk, Wade, and KG should all be behind Giannis.

[chonestown]

Dirk, Wade, and KG should all be behind Giannis.

Reasonable posting

[Licensed to Il]

Shaq was a more dominant player than Embid and its not really close.

[Ron Swanson]

The fundamental disagreement that I always have with these lists is that I can't take anyone seriously who weights "longevity" as much or close to "peak/prime". It's just the dumbest form of analysis to me to be like "Well, player X was better at his best, but man, those age 34-39 seasons of Player Y as a really great role guy and fringe All-Star might make me put him above."

[emunney]

The fundamental disagreement that I always have with these lists is that I can't take anyone seriously who weights "longevity" as much or close to "peak/prime". It's just the dumbest form of analysis to me to be like "Well, player X was better at his best, but man, those age 34-39 seasons of Player Y as a really great role guy and fringe All-Star might make me put him above."

Yeah the longevity of the prime itself is fair to consider, as with LeBron's extraordinarily slow decline to the point where he's still a shoo-in All-Star at 40, but Kevin Garnett's Brooklyn years are not a supportive argument.

[ReasonablySober]

TBH the only guy I'm for sure putting ahead of Giannis is LeBron. Jokic probably.

But after that (Kobe, Steph) I'm arguing.

GTFOH with Wade, Dirk, KG, KD, Duncan, and Shaq.

[chonestown]

Shaq was a more dominant player than Embid and its not really close.

2000 onward is the criteria that needs to be pointed out again.

[KidA24]

TBH the only guy I'm for sure putting ahead of Giannis is LeBron. Jokic probably.

But after that (Kobe, Steph) I'm arguing.

GTFOH with Wade, Dirk, KG, KD, Duncan, and Shaq.

The Duncan slander is astounding. He's so much better than Kobe it's not even close.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Shaq was a more dominant player than Embid and its not really close.

2000 onward is the criteria that needs to be pointed out again.

Shaq won four rings in that period. Embiid hasn't won ****. It's not like embiid really has a ton of numbers either.
Shaq had a MVP and top 3 in MVP shares in 3 other seasons. Idk if I'm picking a team and knowing I'm only getting 4 years of prime Shaq plus another solid 3 years, in taking that over a dozen of embiid