Markky to NO?

[Xman]

Another day, another Markky deal . . . . . . .
(edited to reflect comments - and missing picks)

UTAH - gets Ingram, Hawkins, pick package
NO gets Markky, Kessler, TPE ($15 mil)
* took out Collins even though I thought he could help in NO.

Utah does not really need or want Ingram but he has value and can possibly be moved on for value or bring a third team into this deal. Hawkins/KGeorge combine for a nice prospective backcourt.

*including these deals as a third team option setup for those who do not want Ingram in Utah:
1 - NO gets: Kessler, Markky, PJTucker. UTA gets: Hawkins, NPowell, Coffey, KJones, picks. LAC gets Ingram. - Picks= 2025 NO 1st, best of 2027 MIL 1st/2027 NO 1st, 2029 NO 1st (unpro or pro 4/4/2nds), 2030 LAC 1st (pro 4/2nds), (need another NO ?).
2 - NO gets Markky, Vuc; CHI gets Ingram, Kessler; UTA gets Hawkins, JCarter, Dosunmu, Duarte, picks (2025 NO 1st, best of 2027 MIL 1st/2027 NO 1st, 2029 NO 1st (un pro or pro 4/4/2nds), 2025 POR 1st (pro 14/14/14), 2029 CHI 1st (pro top 2/2nds), (need another NO ?).
3 - NO gets Markky, MRobinson; NY gets Ingram, Kessler; UTA gets Hart, Hawkins, McBride, picks (2025 NO 1st, best of 2027 MIL 1st/2027 NO 1st, 2029 NO 1st (un pro or pro 4/4/2nds), 2025 first (MIL+WAS+DET - all protected), (need another NO ?).


NO picks up three guys that can contribute. Kessler fills a need even if not best fit. Markky can fill in 3-5 based on matchups (go small or go big). Collins fills the gaps.

Pick package pretty much something like this?
2025 NO 1st
Best of 2027 MIL 1st/2027 NO 1st
2029 NO 1st (unpro or pro 4/4/2nds),
Note that 2025 is a strong draft. Plus, Utah has multiple first in those years (2025- CLE, MINN, their own if top 10; 2027- CLE, LAL, MINN, UTA). Synergy created by having multiple in same year which increases chances some of the picks are high.

Is that enough?

Does it make sense for NO to make a move. It seems that this makes NO so deep it is crazy.
pg - Murray, Alvarado
sg - CJ, Murphy
sf - Markky, HJones
pf - Zion, (with Markky moving to pf when Zion is out)
c - Kessler, Missi, Theis (not the best center rotation but should create matchup issues)
Murray, CJ, Murphy, HJones get the most wing minutes.
Zion and Markky get the most minutes in the frontcourt with a lot of small ball around them.

[Texas Chuck]

I think you just leave Collins out of it. Utah has cap space they have been saving to extend they will no longer need. New Orleans then doesn't have to worry about finding him a new home in a year to pay Lauri.

But I like this more than most if you take Collins out and can get Utah enough pick value.

[BK_2020]

Murphy and Jones should be playing starter minutes, not backup minutes. If the 'Cans want to use draft capital to improve, they should be looking to upgrade CJ or the center position, not the wings.

[jayjaysee]

Yeah, I’d leave Collins to lead the tank in Utah. No reason to sacrifice value to dump him and no reason for NOP to want him. Go get a stopgap if they want, but Collins second year isn’t worth it..

Think there’s enough minutes that Lauri to NOP works and Herb’s cheap contract (and DJM’s) will really help for a couple year run with a nicely balanced rotation.. Even more so if you can trust Kessler/Missi..

[dms269]

New Orleans gave up the Lakers 25 1st and one if the 27 1sts in the Murray deal.

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[giberish]

I agree with others - just have Collins stay in Utah.

From there that pick package is IMO way too high (and some of the exact picks NO doesn't have anymore). I don't see Hawkins as much less valuable than Kessler and Ingram has some value. 3 1sts feels like the upper limit on the picks needed, with 2 being where I'd put fair value.

[SkyHook]

New Orleans gave up the Lakers 25 1st and one if the 27 1sts in the Murray deal.

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Yep. This is DOA.

[jayjaysee]

New Orleans gave up the Lakers 25 1st and one if the 27 1sts in the Murray deal.

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Yep. This is DOA.

NOP has 4 firsts to offer if needed and Ingram has some trade value. (Feel like he has more than realgm consensus but even accepting it, it’s some..)

[bkohler]

Not particularly a critique of this trade but recently I’ve noticed a tendency to throw in Kessler to these trades and then sending back what ainge seems to be wanting for Lauri. But he’s already set a price he’s willing to give up for Kessler at a good first or at least better than the two protected firsts he apparently turned down. Adding Kessler to Lauri and then sending back the package Danny is looking to get for Lauri doesn’t seem like it adds up. Particularly in Danny math, which is kinda crazy math but still the math we’re dealing with attempting to move either of those guys.

(Edit: In this trade I’d have Hawkins + 4 picks = Lauri and Ingram = Kessler&Collins)

[SkyHook]

New Orleans gave up the Lakers 25 1st and one if the 27 1sts in the Murray deal.

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Yep. This is DOA.

NOP has 4 firsts to offer if needed and Ingram has some trade value. (Feel like he has more than realgm consensus but even accepting it, it’s some..)

Yes, the OP could certainly rework the trade, but the reality is that two of the picks he proposed are simply not available to be included.

And if Ingram can return value from a third party, it would need to be included as part of this deal. He's not a fit in Utah now or in the future. The Jazz shouldn't be interested in trying to realize that theoretical value at a later date.

[Xman]

Edited for comments.

[jazzfan1971]

I think if we want Ingram it is because we want him to pair with Lauri.
I think it best to separate Lauri and Kessler deals. Putting them in the same deal seems to dilute their value, not raise it.
Those picks would be at the bottom of the first after this. All of them. Not muI value to be had in picks.

With all that in mind I think a NO/Utah deal is neither based around Ingram nor picks, but is instead based around some of NO's young talent instead.

[louc1970]

Everyone knows Ainge is going to play hardball. So Utah asks for the moon and brings the Rockets in as a 3rd team to take Ingram.

NOP trades Ingram, Jones, 25 FRP, 26 FRP, 28 FRP, 30 FRP
NOP receives Markkanen, Kessler, Green (Jalen)

The cost is high but the return is better. Ingram is not getting back a treasure trove, and Jones is contract friendly potential. Markkanen is better than them individually and perhaps combined to NOP. The picks amount to Ingram plus 1 FRP for Green, and Jones plus 3 FRPs for Markkanen and Kessler.

Rockets trade Green, Griffin, Jeff Green, Eason, filler (Tate, Londale, Holiday, Hinton, Dante)
Rockets receive Ingram, 26 FRP

Rockets move away from young back ups and get a second scorer to partner with Smith/FVV.

Jazz trade Markkanen, Kessler
Jazz receive Griffin, Jones, Green (Jeff), Eason, 3 FRPs

Jazz keep getting youth and stocking picks.

The cost is high to all teams - losing players that fans like and tons of potential. But the end results could make 2 of the teams contenders.

Could rethink this and send Sengun to NOP and Kessler to Houston.

[jayjaysee]

Edited for comments.

My favorite three team deal stays

Wiggins, Payton, 2 GSW, 3 NOP firsts, probably some swaps to Utah
Lauri, Kessler, Looney to NOP
Ingram to GSW

You can fill in the vet mins however you want, or subtract pick value and add a prospect.. Could take out Kessler and the 2030 first if you wanted? NOP can go get a (better) starting center else where with the new space under the tax..

NOP stays under tax and gets some size. GSW stay under the apron and overpay Ingram to keep Curry happy, get to keep Podz and Kuminga. Utah gets 5 firsts and tries to flip Wiggins for lesser salary later.

(Trying to be as Utah friendly as possible) I would dress it up like

2025 GSW first
2025 NOP swap (Minn/cleveland/GSW)
2026 NOP first
2026 GSW swap (NOP/Utah)
2027 GSW first
2027 NOP swap (Minn/cleveland/GSW)
2028 NOP first
2028 GSW swap
2030 NOP first (top ?? protection)

But for NOP - I might really look at just taking GSW’s offer. Dump Payton on GSW for seconds and not mind Wiggins contract with Herb/DJM so cheap. Use one of GSW’s firsts to turn Looney into a vet center..

[Xman]

[quote="louc1970"]Everyone knows Ainge is going to play hardball. So Utah asks for the moon and brings the Rockets in as a 3rd team to take Ingram.

NOP trades Ingram, Jones, 25 FRP, 26 FRP, 28 FRP, 30 FRP
NOP receives Markkanen, Kessler, Green (Jalen)

The cost is high but the return is better. Ingram is not getting back a treasure trove, and Jones is contract friendly potential. Markkanen is better than them individually and perhaps combined to NOP. The picks amount to Ingram plus 1 FRP for Green, and Jones plus 3 FRPs for Markkanen and Kessler.

Rockets trade Green, Griffin, Jeff Green, Eason, filler (Tate, Londale, Holiday, Hinton, Dante)
Rockets receive Ingram, 26 FRP

Rockets move away from young back ups and get a second scorer to partner with Smith/FVV.

Jazz trade Markkanen, Kessler
Jazz receive Griffin, Jones, Green (Jeff), Eason, 3 FRPs

Jazz keep getting youth and stocking picks.

The cost is high to all teams - losing players that fans like and tons of potential. But the end results could make 2 of the teams contenders.

Could rethink this and send Sengun to NOP and Kessler to Houston.[/quote]

Rockets don’t want Ingram.
And this is way too much.

[Mrakar]

First deal i would do it, i proposed myself something like that a month before in a 3 team trade where Ingram went to Sacramento and Barnes, Huerter and picks went to Utah. However that deal is done now since Sac signed Derozan.
I think Utah would want 3rd team in that deal since it doesnt make sense to get Ingram, only if they think they can rebuild his value and trade him in a year again.

As for the Pels side of it, CJ would have to go to 6th man role. Kessler would start but play like 15 to 20 minutes max and main and closing rotation would be:
Murray
Herb
Murphy
Zion
Markkanen.
That is one of the best deals i see for the Pels out there since there is no good stretch 5's out there. There is no good 5s out there, not only stretch or rim protecting....

[BK_2020]

yeah let's have a closing lineup with no PG and no center.

[Rockazoids]

3 - NO gets Markky, MRobinson; NY gets Ingram, Kessler; UTA gets Hart, Hawkins, McBride, picks (2025 NO 1st, best of 2027 MIL 1st/2027 NO 1st, 2029 NO 1st (un pro or pro 4/4/2nds), 2025 first (MIL+WAS+DET - all protected), (need another NO ?).

So if I'm reading this right NY trades Robinson, Hart, McBride, & 3 1st for Ingram & Kessler?
Why would NY do this trade? They don't need Ingram and his $50 M price tag he wants. This trade takes away their better center,
their best backup PG, and moves one of the Nova Boys. So that would be a big hell no.

[Xman]

[quote="Rockazoids"][quote="Xman"] 3 - NO gets Markky, [color=#0040FF]MRobinson[/color]; NY gets Ingram, Kessler; UTA gets [color=#0040FF]Hart[/color], Hawkins, [color=#0040FF]McBride[/color], picks (2025 NO 1st, best of 2027 MIL 1st/2027 NO 1st, 2029 NO 1st (un pro or pro 4/4/2nds), [color=#0040FF]2025 first (MIL+WAS+DET - all protected)[/color], (need another NO ?).[/quote]
So if I'm reading this right NY trades Robinson, Hart, McBride, & 3 1st for Ingram & Kessler?
Why would NY do this trade? They don't need Ingram and his $50 M price tag he wants. This trade takes away their better center,
their best backup PG, and moves one of the Nova Boys. So that would be a big hell no.[/quote]

Those firsts have low value. Doesn’t Kessler improve the center position? Not sure who comes off the bench: Ingram or OG but which ever one would be a 6th man of the year candidate.

[Rockazoids]

3 - NO gets Markky, MRobinson; NY gets Ingram, Kessler; UTA gets Hart, Hawkins, McBride, picks (2025 NO 1st, best of 2027 MIL 1st/2027 NO 1st, 2029 NO 1st (un pro or pro 4/4/2nds), 2025 first (MIL+WAS+DET - all protected), (need another NO ?).

So if I'm reading this right NY trades Robinson, Hart, McBride, & 3 1st for Ingram & Kessler?
Why would NY do this trade? They don't need Ingram and his $50 M price tag he wants. This trade takes away their better center,
their best backup PG, and moves one of the Nova Boys. So that would be a big hell no.

Those firsts have low value. Doesn’t Kessler improve the center position? Not sure who comes off the bench: Ingram or OG but which ever one would be a 6th man of the year candidate.

Come on now, no one is going to pay someone $36 M to come off the bench.