2024 Paris Olympics General (non-Basketball/Track & Field) Discussion Thread

[G R E Y]

It's in the Olympic Charta that the Host has to show the society in its own country. You cultureless american don't know anything about Europe in general.

Moulin Rouge and Dragqueens have been always a part of Parisian Society and France in general. They are a part of our European culture.

Go to McDonald's and eat some fries and burgers.

The opposite of drag is not uncultured. And they are not a part of all European culture as if it's a monolith of agreement.

Drag is not a staple of european culture but cross dressing has been a part of entertainment for centuries in Europe (and other continents as well). I think what Mattatron means is people who got offended yesterday would have a heart attack watching a pan-european event such as Eurovision which often features (and crowns) drag and LGBTQIA+ acts and is way more extravagant. Being both french and american I totally understand why some american people were shocked but it was quite standard from a french point of view.

It's not the drag. It's the Last Supper scene with it. Posters who aren't even Christian have expressed issues with it in this thread. As I've said before, I'd defend the right to do it. So too is it my right to express a dislike for my religion to be presented in this way. There's no way another would be done so for fear of reprisals that have already come.

[G R E Y]

Give me an example ? It's in the Olympic Charta that the Host has to show the world their History, Culture and Society. Moulin Rouge, Dragqueens are a part of it and deeply rooted in the Parisian Society. Always have been. This is Europe. Not the US. Maybe you are Distasteful.

That was the example of something distasteful. And given that we immigrated to Canada from Europe, I also have a good finger on the pulse there, too.

Drag queens is one thing; repurposing a key moment of a religious painting, and one specific faith, is another. Imagine seeing Mohammed reinterpreted as drag, for example.

So while yes it's about showcasing Paris, this is a global event. Of course all eyes are on it. There may be an exchange of ideas about the Last Supper and Christ represented in drag, and criticism of how/where it lands on a distasteful scale, there's a reason it stays localized to that.

All of the choices of what to include and not were carefully considered for a global audience.

Ever heard of Satire and Charlie Hebdo ?

This is common in France. The Host is France, and the global audience have to respect their values.

Lmao there's no have to. Charlie Hebdo would like a word...

[_jin]

That was the example of something distasteful. And given that we immigrated to Canada from Europe, I also have a good finger on the pulse there, too.

Drag queens is one thing; repurposing a key moment of a religious painting, and one specific faith, is another. Imagine seeing Mohammed reinterpreted as drag, for example.

So while yes it's about showcasing Paris, this is a global event. Of course all eyes are on it. There may be an exchange of ideas about the Last Supper and Christ represented in drag, and criticism of how/where it lands on a distasteful scale, there's a reason it stays localized to that.

All of the choices of what to include and not were carefully considered for a global audience.

Ever heard of Satire and Charlie Hebdo ?

This is common in France. The Host is France, and the global audience have to respect their values.

Yes. But that platform isn't suitable for satire. And having some papa smurf lookalike on a table is just **** weird.

It was a depiction of Dionysus by Philippe Katherine who's a very eccentric and provocative singer/actor who always does weird stuff like that. I dont think that part was shocking, just weird lol but french people are used to Katherine's bizarre stuff. I'd say the best american comparison would probably be Weird Al.

[ItsDanger]

Opening ceremony was an absolute travesty. Just saw some if it on replay. Inexcusable.

What were your issues in particular?

Openly mocking a religion should be off limits.

[G R E Y]

How many pieces of religious art are as iconic to a Western and, especially, French audience as the Last Supper? Are there any non-Christian pieces of religious art that are instantly recognizable to Western (and, again, French) audiences?

Would the recreation/homage/lampooning (If someone wants to view it in a hostile light) work if the piece of art chosen wasn't as widely known as the Last Supper? Would the general audience understand what it is?

The Last Supper was indeed the safer choice but what made it safe wasn't what you're implying. What made it the safer choice is that everyone in the West can recognize it. Religious or not. It's one of those works of art that is considered universal because of how famous it is. That's why it was chosen.

Besides, when any artist tries to recreate/pay homage or lampoon something, it's natural to draw from their own experiences and the culture that they were brought up in. France is a Christian-majority country so it's only natural that the religious art recreated was Christian. It would actually be pretty weird if it wasn't.

Remember the opening ceremony of the Tokyo Olympics? Did they reference Christian religious art at any point? No, of course not. Because it wouldn't make any sense of them. It wouldn't be part of the country's culture (which is something that they're supposed to showcase). But it did heavily reference video games, noh theatre, kabuki and Japanese game shows. Because, you know, all that is part of the culture that they were supposed to showcase.

That is exactly what this opening ceremony did. It showcased the culture of France and Paris. That's the goal and, imo, they absolutely nailed that. Because, yeah, beheading royalty, lampooning religious institutions and generally mocking authority are all parts of French and Parisian culture.

Are there no other famous works of art, non-religious, from which to choose? Are there sensitivities around other religious works that, had they been recreated/lampooned instead, would have been as safe to do so - in today's France? That's a lot of good points that work a big circle around the hub, which is that is IS a centrally religious symbolic piece of art. As you acknowledge. But there's also a reason France has banned all religious exterior symbols in schools (paraphrasing) and only one religion was lampooned, despite it being a country of many faiths, of course. Something is being ignored-to-minimized here, even as I support the right to blaspheme in general.

Are there famous non-religious works of art? Of course there are. Would recreating/paying homage to/lampooning a non-religious work of art showcase France's laïcité? No, it wouldn't.

Remember, the whole point of Olympic opening ceremonies (other than to officially indicate the start of the Games) is to showcase the host country's culture. Laïcité is a key component of French culture. Laïcité is the reason why the use of religious symbols in public places was banned. Laïcité is part of what makes France, well, France.

I realize that this could be seen as offensive to Americans (or people from other similarly religious countries) but France does have the right to showcase their culture during the opening ceremony they are hosting.

As I've stated before, France has strong representation of all the Abrahamic faiths. And as I've stated before, there's a reason why one and not another was lampooned. It's naive to think global reprisals would not have been a consideration. It was a safe choice as an example laïcité.

And if I can defend their right to do it I can do so as well for mine to express dislike/disrespect of an important aspect of a faith. Goes both ways.

[xdrta+]

Opening ceremony was an absolute travesty. Just saw some if it on replay. Inexcusable.

What were your issues in particular?

Openly mocking a religion should be off limits.

Nothing should be off-limits. No reason to cater to every audience member's sensitiveness.

[ItsDanger]

What were your issues in particular?

Openly mocking a religion should be off limits.

Nothing should be off-limits. No reason to cater to every audience member's sensitiveness.

Lot of areas are definitely off limits already. Lets be honest here. Your statement definitely doesn't apply across the board and you know that.

[Buckets22]

Huge Dupont for France. Fiji are finally defeated in the Olympics.

[peZt]

Funny how the same people who say "France is the host so you gotta respect their values" are the same ones who wanted to boycott the world cup in Qatar since they didn't want to value their culture. Guess it only counts when it's western "woke" culture, cause tolerance I guess.


And no, drag is not "European" culture. It might very well be parisien culture; but just because Paris is in Europe doesn't make it European culture.

[Loaded_Hollows]

People crying about the drag show is HILARIOUS
Such softies. American republicans especially. How sad.

[Loaded_Hollows]

These rugby games are FIRE!! France vs Fiji was a show.

[Mattatron]

Opening ceremony was an absolute travesty. Just saw some if it on replay. Inexcusable.

What were your issues in particular?

Openly mocking a religion should be off limits.

so its mockery for you when lgbtq people depict the last supper? Wow, I have no words...

[xdrta+]

Openly mocking a religion should be off limits.

Nothing should be off-limits. No reason to cater to every audience member's sensitiveness.

Lot of areas are definitely off limits already. Lets be honest here. Your statement definitely doesn't apply across the board and you know that.

Why is religion so special that it should be off-limits?

[azcatz11]

People crying about the drag show is HILARIOUS
Such softies. American republicans especially. How sad.

How is this a political issue? You want your kids to see dudes with their testicles out and women with beards?

[_jin]

Huge Dupont for France. Fiji are finally defeated in the Olympics.

I'm very happy for the first gold medal as a french fan but I feel bad for Fiji, as a small country it's the only sport they dominated and probably dont have another chance at gold in those Olympics.
Dupont is even more unfair in sevens than he is in standard rugby.

[Mattatron]

Funny how the same people who say "France is the host so you gotta respect their values" are the same ones who wanted to boycott the world cup in Qatar since they didn't want to value their culture. Guess it only counts when it's western "woke" culture, cause tolerance I guess.


And no, drag is not "European" culture. It might very well be parisien culture; but just because Paris is in Europe doesn't make it European culture.

I was not against the WC in Qatar. I had problems with the hypocrites in those queer groups while they pinkwash arab states on the other hand. But that's another Story.

It is part of European culture. You ever went to Hamburg, Berlin, Barcelona, London etc !?

And it is European culture to live and let live. Unlike the states in Murica.

[Grahf]

Even Olympics cant escape this woke BS

It's in the Olympic Charta that the Host has to show the society in its own country. You cultureless american don't know anything about Europe in general.

Moulin Rouge and Dragqueens have been always a part of Parisian Society and France in general. They are a part of our European culture.

Go to McDonald's and eat some fries and burgers.

By far the fastest growing part of French society is the Muslim population. If you’re going to do what France did to the last supper, Why not include the Muslim population by depicting the Prophet Mohammed and his wife Aisha as drag queens?

[Buckets22]

Huge Dupont for France. Fiji are finally defeated in the Olympics.

I'm very happy for the first gold medal as a french fan but I feel bad for Fiji, as a small country it's the only sport they dominated and probably dont have another chance at gold in those Olympics.
Dupont is even more unfair in sevens than he is in standard rugby.

Time to put some Daft Punk and party!

Fiji was shaky the whole tournament to be honest, definitely didn't impress as much as the previous Olympics.

[_jin]

People crying about the drag show is HILARIOUS
Such softies. American republicans especially. How sad.

How is this a political issue? You want your kids to see dudes with their testicles out and women with beards?

You really think watching drags will turn kids into drags? If your kids ever become drags or queer after watching a drag show it's probably because they were wired that way from the start and felt liberated. One of my daughters love drag shows ever since she saw Conchita Wurtz win Eurovision ten years ago when she was 7. She's a huge fan of Nicky Doll and screamed and jumped when she saw her last night. She's 17 and and has grown to be a straight normal girl because that's who she is. Watching and following drag queens on socials didnt turn her into one. It blows my mind that people still dont understand that in 2024.

[bisme37]

Uhhmm hey good pals lol. I was really not trying to moderate anything today but I've gotta ask that we get this thread off of the current religious/cultural battle that's going on and back to the intended topic, which is the athletic competitions of the Olympics.

I understand that the current line of commentary is stemming from the Opening Ceremony, and I was hoping the discussion would kinda dissipate on its own, but it's not and we have people in the other Olympic thread openly lamenting that they'd like to discuss sports here but are confused about why this thread is no longer about that. Instead the thread is about LGBT and drag queens and "radical fanatics." That's not what we're going for here.

If you'd like to discuss religion/culture/politics you are always welcome to do so on the Current Affairs board. We try to be consistent with not allowing much of that on the GB. viewforum.php?f=69

I'm also seeing comments that are just overly hostile and/or straight up personal attacks. Stuff like, "You cultureless american" and "Such softies. American republicans especially." Comments like that are a violation of posting guidelines and subject to strike/suspension.

Anyway, I'm going to stop rambling now but let's bring the current line of discussion to an end and get back to sports. Please and thank you!