Lakers interested in Brown

[bobbyp3588]

Imo Brown's value is a second round pick or two at most and a contract. He would be gone by now if he had any value. His value didn't increase suddenly.

Nor did his value plummet the moment after we picked up his option. Lol.

Our FO isn’t dumb and they could have just not picked up the option. Clearly they expect certain trade options to remain or come available. I’ll be shocked if all he nets is a SRP and similar AAV contract.

[LarSiN]

Brown russell lbj ad jakub

Thats a top ten team or better.

This is just an example.

Lakers should be going all in on veteran role players.

These gms just dont want to look bad.

If i was the lakers, id be hand picking my kcp/caruso/jakub/kelly olynyk — whoever and overpaying by whatever realistic means necessary.

That lineup would never exist, but no, it would not be top 10 or higher in 2025 (nor would we give them Jakob or Olynyk, and Russell definitely wouldn't be there if they had BB/JP)

[Scase]

Imo Brown's value is a second round pick or two at most and a contract. He would be gone by now if he had any value. His value didn't increase suddenly.

Nor did his value plummet the moment after we picked up his option. Lol.

Our FO isn’t dumb and they could have just not picked up the option. Clearly they expect certain trade options to remain or come available. I’ll be shocked if all he nets is a SRP and similar AAV contract.

Sure is a good thing our FO has never made mistakes picking up options, or holding onto assets too long right?

This isn't about them being dumb, smart people make wrong decisions all the time.

[agkagk]

Brown russell lbj ad jakub

Thats a top ten team or better.

This is just an example.

Lakers should be going all in on veteran role players.

These gms just dont want to look bad.

If i was the lakers, id be hand picking my kcp/caruso/jakub/kelly olynyk — whoever and overpaying by whatever realistic means necessary.

That lineup would never exist, but no, it would not be top 10 or higher in 2025 (nor would we give them Jakob or Olynyk, and Russell definitely wouldn't be there if they had BB/JP)

Name 5 teams that can play in the halfcourt on any level let alone a high end championship level.


That lineup would win 60 games and make very few highlight reels.

Boring and efficient.


That lineup would easily be my favourite in the west.

[ciueli]

It has to do with the second apron. As if you needed my clarification for that one. Plus, there’s a whole offseason yet to happen, never mind a season and a trade deadline.

This is what we said with Siakam and we got fleeced for that.

People overestimate the value of an expiring contract. These teams do not want to hit the 2nd apron for the likes of Bruce Brown.

We either get peanuts for him or just simply let him expire.

If BB expires as a Raptor next season, Masai should personally refund the team the $23 million. Then get demoted to head of the draft team. DraftMaster. Or just fire him. He did pick Jo'Kobe #19 when Homes was still available.

This is exactly how I feel about Masai. It's totally ridiculous the amount of money he wastes when the team isn't even remotely close to being competitive. Paying Brown $23M just to retain him as an "asset" in the hopes of a trade when you already did that last year and failed to move him? This is a guy we could have kept for the minimum if we wanted to because there's no teams handing out more than that in free agency. It's similar to what they did with the Kyle Lowry deal, hold on too long and wind up eating a $20M contract just to get Precious Achiuwa then be forced to make a move to get under the tax that costs a pick.

And keeping Brown isn't even the worst overpay they've made recently, they offered Gary Trent Jr. $15M/year when no other team in the NBA was going to give him more than a minimum contract, lucked out that he though he was worth more and said no. They signed Kelly Olynyk to 2 year MLE deal when no other team was going to give him more than a minimum contract in free agency. These guys are throwing away money for no reason, the worst part is these players are semi-competent bench players so it just means the Raptors will win a few more games than they otherwise would when they should be tanking and trying to get a top 5 pick in 2025.

[PoundTown]

This is what we said with Siakam and we got fleeced for that.

People overestimate the value of an expiring contract. These teams do not want to hit the 2nd apron for the likes of Bruce Brown.

We either get peanuts for him or just simply let him expire.

If BB expires as a Raptor next season, Masai should personally refund the team the $23 million. Then get demoted to head of the draft team. DraftMaster. Or just fire him. He did pick Jo'Kobe #19 when Homes was still available.

This is exactly how I feel about Masai. It's totally ridiculous the amount of money he wastes when the team isn't even remotely close to being competitive. Paying Brown $23M just to retain him as an "asset" in the hopes of a trade when you already did that last year and failed to move him? This is a guy we could have kept for the minimum if we wanted to because there's no teams handing out more than that in free agency. It's similar to what they did with the Kyle Lowry deal, hold on too long and wind up eating a $20M contract just to get Precious Achiuwa then be forced to make a move to get under the tax that costs a pick.

And keeping Brown isn't even the worst overpay they've made recently, they offered Gary Trent Jr. $15M/year when no other team in the NBA was going to give him more than a minimum contract, lucked out that he though he was worth more and said no. They signed Kelly Olynyk to 2 year MLE deal when no other team was going to give him more than a minimum contract in free agency. These guys are throwing away money for no reason, the worst part is these players are semi-competent bench players so it just means the Raptors will win a few more games than they otherwise would when they should be tanking and trying to get a top 5 pick in 2025.

Not sure it has been confirmed on the GTJ side of things. I think if we were offering 15 mil, then Gary would have taken it. So, I personally think we moved on past GTJ. Second, what would we do with capspace if Browns option wasn't picked up? We are clearly not trying to rush winning and are prioritizing long term flexibility. Both Brown and Boucher will not be back with the team next year. Brown will be motivated and in a contract year this year and is a solid vet. He's good enough to help us stay a bit more competitive, but not good enough to really tip the scales or anything. He can play off the bench or as a starter, doesn't impede any growth of our younger guys and is probably going to at least get us a good 2nd rounder by the deadline. It was smart to pick up his option. If he plays really well, maybe someone like OKC or Philly is willing to give up a late first.

[docholliday99]

Imo Brown's value is a second round pick or two at most and a contract. He would be gone by now if he had any value. His value didn't increase suddenly.

Nor did his value plummet the moment after we picked up his option. Lol.

Our FO isn’t dumb and they could have just not picked up the option. Clearly they expect certain trade options to remain or come available. I’ll be shocked if all he nets is a SRP and similar AAV contract.

Sure is a good thing our FO has never made mistakes picking up options, or holding onto assets too long right?

This isn't about them being dumb, smart people make wrong decisions all the time.

I don't see any downside with picking up his option, besides putting the team over the cap and offering a viable trade chip, he's also a pretty solid rotation player where the team has his early bird rights (a larger base salary is a benefit in this case) - the team could retain him going forward or S&T him to a contender.

I still think he'll be moved before the start of the season and personally, I see him not being moved yet as not a reflection of his value but more about what the other teams have been up to - this LM stuff is holding up the last bit of FA. Worst case, is he's moved by the deadline.

[LarSiN]

Brown russell lbj ad jakub

Thats a top ten team or better.

This is just an example.

Lakers should be going all in on veteran role players.

These gms just dont want to look bad.

If i was the lakers, id be hand picking my kcp/caruso/jakub/kelly olynyk — whoever and overpaying by whatever realistic means necessary.

That lineup would never exist, but no, it would not be top 10 or higher in 2025 (nor would we give them Jakob or Olynyk, and Russell definitely wouldn't be there if they had BB/JP)

Name 5 teams that can play in the halfcourt on any level let alone a high end championship level.


That lineup would win 60 games and make very few highlight reels.

Boring and efficient.


That lineup would easily be my favourite in the west.

That's fine, but as I said, that lineup could never exist, so your love of them is a moot point. They couldn't keep Russell in that scenario, we also wouldn't be trading them 2 starters for ... what? Schifino & a 2nd? It's a pointless discussion

[ciueli]

This is exactly how I feel about Masai. It's totally ridiculous the amount of money he wastes when the team isn't even remotely close to being competitive. Paying Brown $23M just to retain him as an "asset" in the hopes of a trade when you already did that last year and failed to move him? This is a guy we could have kept for the minimum if we wanted to because there's no teams handing out more than that in free agency. It's similar to what they did with the Kyle Lowry deal, hold on too long and wind up eating a $20M contract just to get Precious Achiuwa then be forced to make a move to get under the tax that costs a pick.

And keeping Brown isn't even the worst overpay they've made recently, they offered Gary Trent Jr. $15M/year when no other team in the NBA was going to give him more than a minimum contract, lucked out that he though he was worth more and said no. They signed Kelly Olynyk to 2 year MLE deal when no other team was going to give him more than a minimum contract in free agency. These guys are throwing away money for no reason, the worst part is these players are semi-competent bench players so it just means the Raptors will win a few more games than they otherwise would when they should be tanking and trying to get a top 5 pick in 2025.

Not sure it has been confirmed on the GTJ side of things. I think if we were offering 15 mil, then Gary would have taken it. So, I personally think we moved on past GTJ.

The new reality of the NBA and disappearance of the middle class is something that caught a lot of people by surprise, the list of players who have been reduced to taking a minimum contract instead of the MLE or part of it is sort of shocking. I'm sure Gary and his representation thought the worst he could do was an MLE deal to the team of his choice and maybe they preferred that to staying in Toronto for a little more money (minus the brutal taxes) but they didn't count on the rule changes around the MLE having this level of impact on the NBA's middle class. So I can totally believe he wasn't willing to accept a deal at $15M/year to be a backup on a losing team heading into a massive cap spike, I'm sure he thought he was worth more than that.

Second, what would we do with capspace if Browns option wasn't picked up? We are clearly not trying to rush winning and are prioritizing long term flexibility.

Doing nothing is better than spending $23M for no reason, bank the money and use it later, save money now so that you can spend into the tax when the team is trying to actually win something. Spend more money and use roster spots on fringe prospects, or just absorb a player into your MLE from another team along with a draft pick as payment for taking on money. There's no reason to spend right up to the tax level in a season we should be looking to bottom out and land a top 5 pick.

Both Brown and Boucher will not be back with the team next year. Brown will be motivated and in a contract year this year and is a solid vet. He's good enough to help us stay a bit more competitive, but not good enough to really tip the scales or anything.

This is my big issue, paying $23M/year to a vet who can probably win us a few more games in a season we should be tanking for a top 5 pick is a poor decision. But it's all being done just to have a shot at making the play-in when we are supposed to be rebuilding. It makes no sense and it makes me believe they aren't serious about rebuilding.

He can play off the bench or as a starter, doesn't impede any growth of our younger guys and is probably going to at least get us a good 2nd rounder by the deadline. It was smart to pick up his option. If he plays really well, maybe someone like OKC or Philly is willing to give up a late first.

But the problem is if he plays really well that means we're probably winning more games than expected which means it's hurting our draft position even more, there will be more incentive to push for the play-in and more pressure to keep him on the roster instead of trading him, at the same time it means fewer minutes and smaller roles for the players like Grady Dick or Ja'Kobe Walter, guys we're trying to develop. And any trade we make with him will probably be longer term salary for worse players with a minor asset coming back at best, I just don't think it's worth it at this point. I actually think part of the reluctance to let him walk is just the optics of trading Pascal for an expiring contact and marginal picks, the Pascal trade was bad and keeping Brown is them clinging to the idea they can still make that trade look slightly better with a trade or a playoff appearance.

I mean, I think when we see the calibre of player taking minimum contracts we would have been much better off offering one of them the MLE on a 1 year deal, then flipping them to a contender at the deadline, it's much easier to trade a player making the MLE than Brown's $23M, especially when we already have Boucher's expiring to include in trades. Part of the issue with trading Brown to the Lakers is that they don't have good matching salary to send back, but, say, Tyus Jones at the MLE would work really well for them, something like Tyus Jones for Gabe Vincent and a future first round pick is more likely than a deal involving Brown.

[agkagk]

That lineup would never exist, but no, it would not be top 10 or higher in 2025 (nor would we give them Jakob or Olynyk, and Russell definitely wouldn't be there if they had BB/JP)

Name 5 teams that can play in the halfcourt on any level let alone a high end championship level.


That lineup would win 60 games and make very few highlight reels.

Boring and efficient.


That lineup would easily be my favourite in the west.

That's fine, but as I said, that lineup could never exist, so your love of them is a moot point. They couldn't keep Russell in that scenario, we also wouldn't be trading them 2 starters for ... what? Schifino & a 2nd? It's a pointless discussion

Yeaaaaah that was a “fooooor exaaaaaample”.


Kcp and jakub, whatever.


They already had a backcourt of caruso and kcp amd blew it.

Kinda feels like you trying to have a different conversation lol

[Merit]

This is what we said with Siakam and we got fleeced for that.

People overestimate the value of an expiring contract. These teams do not want to hit the 2nd apron for the likes of Bruce Brown.

We either get peanuts for him or just simply let him expire.

If BB expires as a Raptor next season, Masai should personally refund the team the $23 million. Then get demoted to head of the draft team. DraftMaster. Or just fire him. He did pick Jo'Kobe #19 when Homes was still available.

This is exactly how I feel about Masai. It's totally ridiculous the amount of money he wastes when the team isn't even remotely close to being competitive. Paying Brown $23M just to retain him as an "asset" in the hopes of a trade when you already did that last year and failed to move him? This is a guy we could have kept for the minimum if we wanted to because there's no teams handing out more than that in free agency. It's similar to what they did with the Kyle Lowry deal, hold on too long and wind up eating a $20M contract just to get Precious Achiuwa then be forced to make a move to get under the tax that costs a pick.

And keeping Brown isn't even the worst overpay they've made recently, they offered Gary Trent Jr. $15M/year when no other team in the NBA was going to give him more than a minimum contract, lucked out that he though he was worth more and said no. They signed Kelly Olynyk to 2 year MLE deal when no other team was going to give him more than a minimum contract in free agency. These guys are throwing away money for no reason, the worst part is these players are semi-competent bench players so it just means the Raptors will win a few more games than they otherwise would when they should be tanking and trying to get a top 5 pick in 2025.

they didn't overpay brown. his salary was given to him by the pacers. As I've said earlier, it makes no sense for them to lose an asset for nothing. In this case, they still have cap room via almost the full MLE. With players like Tyus Jones going for peanuts and some decent options still out there - we have choice. I'm not sure why some of us are so impatient.

As for Gary - it sucks to suck. He would've been salary ballast too. Glad we can play our youth at the guard spot anyway.

[ciueli]

they didn't overpay brown. his salary was given to him by the pacers. As I've said earlier, it makes no sense for them to lose an asset for nothing. In this case, they still have cap room via almost the full MLE. With players like Tyus Jones going for peanuts and some decent options still out there - we have choice. I'm not sure why some of us are so impatient.

As for Gary - it sucks to suck. He would've been salary ballast too. Glad we can play our youth at the guard spot anyway.

What makes no sense is paying a player significantly more than that player is worth on the open market. Want to keep Brown? Just use his Bird rights to sign him at a more reasonable number, on a 1 year deal since no one is going to pay him more than the minimum. Then he actually becomes a real trade chip because he isn't making $20M more than he should be and matching salary is easier.

Again, I'll say that keeping Brown on his old contract accomplishes nothing, he isn't good enough to help us win now, and all he does is block our young players from getting more minutes as we showcase him for other teams. It's the worst of both worlds, he won't help us win, but he'll prevent us from losing too much and keep the young talent we're trying to develop off the floor.

[Merit]

they didn't overpay brown. his salary was given to him by the pacers. As I've said earlier, it makes no sense for them to lose an asset for nothing. In this case, they still have cap room via almost the full MLE. With players like Tyus Jones going for peanuts and some decent options still out there - we have choice. I'm not sure why some of us are so impatient.

As for Gary - it sucks to suck. He would've been salary ballast too. Glad we can play our youth at the guard spot anyway.

What makes no sense is paying a player significantly more than that player is worth on the open market. Want to keep Brown? Just use his Bird rights to sign him at a more reasonable number, on a 1 year deal since no one is going to pay him more than the minimum. Then he actually becomes a real trade chip because he isn't making $20M more than he should be and matching salary is easier.

Again, I'll say that keeping Brown on his old contract accomplishes nothing, he isn't good enough to help us win now, and all he does is block our young players from getting more minutes as we showcase him for other teams. It's the worst of both worlds, he won't help us win, but he'll prevent us from losing too much and keep the young talent we're trying to develop off the floor.

I’m not quite sure on the bird rights side of things. Remind me again why he would choose to re-sign with us for less money and the same term just because? There are agents and relationships and that would never fly.

The choice was to pick up his option and get something for him or decline his option and lose him for nothing.

It’s a pretty clear choice. Asset retention.

Again, we didn’t pay him. Indiana did. I do agree he’s a little overpaid, but not all that overpaid given the rising cap. Plus, without his contract as salary cap ballast, we’re unable to make a move for a distressed star player should one become available.

Furthermore, there isn’t anyone else on the free agent market that would be better value than him right now anyway.

Feel free to disagree, but to me this feels like a mountain out of a molehill.

[Merit]

What does that have to do with BB ?

It has to do with the second apron. As if you needed my clarification for that one. Plus, there’s a whole offseason yet to happen, never mind a season and a trade deadline.

This is what we said with Siakam and we got fleeced for that.

People overestimate the value of an expiring contract. These teams do not want to hit the 2nd apron for the likes of Bruce Brown.

We either get peanuts for him or just simply let him expire.

Are those the only two options? He is firmly salary ballast in a trade for a star player, should one become available. I’m feeling like I’m repeatedly stating the obvious. We’ve discussed trading him for a more talented player with term and have identified both Zach Lavine and Andrew Wiggins as examples. Again, who knows if it’s likely. The MO is asset retention. Picking up his contract makes sense.

[Thaddy]

Brown is going to be a starter when the season starts. We're looking to be a competitive team and us being a winning team would translate to Brown's value being a lot higher. If we suck, he's still valuable as an expiring so there isn't anything lost. Internal competition amongst our young players going for that vacant role will also be good for us. We will have a subset of young assets that will be competing hard.

A starting line up of

Poeltl / Barnes / Barrett / Brown / Quickely

I have that in the top 20 in the NBA and it should knocking on the door of the top 12. The bench shouldn't suck with Olynyk, Mitchell, and Dick. The the new guys like Shead and Mogbo will get minutes right away. The bench should be okay at least defensively.

[docholliday99]

What makes no sense is paying a player significantly more than that player is worth on the open market. Want to keep Brown? Just use his Bird rights to sign him at a more reasonable number, on a 1 year deal since no one is going to pay him more than the minimum. Then he actually becomes a real trade chip because he isn't making $20M more than he should be and matching salary is easier.

Again, I'll say that keeping Brown on his old contract accomplishes nothing, he isn't good enough to help us win now, and all he does is block our young players from getting more minutes as we showcase him for other teams. It's the worst of both worlds, he won't help us win, but he'll prevent us from losing too much and keep the young talent we're trying to develop off the floor.

Correct me if I'm wrong but in this case, I think the Raptors wouldn't have any rights as Brown signed a 2 year deal as an UFA and has only played one. I dunno, I think picking up Brown's option makes sense on a lot of levels, just getting the team over the cap for starters. Picking up his option also didn't stop the team from signing GTJ as some think, as that decision to move on was GTJ's before picking up Brown's option - can you imagine the Raptor Rage if the team signed him for what he was looking for? I think adding Brown in a trade would be a lot easier than an overpaid GTJ with term.

I wouldn't be too worried about the teams ability to tank their record, just trade or sit Poeltl again after the all star break and see the team plummet - we're 4-28 without him last year. Despite all the bad teams, especially in the East, I think the Raptors will come away with a pick in the 7-10 range.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

The problem is, he's horrible value at 23M.

Like, at what point are we going to be able to bundle Agbaji and his 4M along with Brown's 23M and get back a player who isn't basically GTJ on a worse contract. It's 27M in dead cap space.

[mihaic]

This is what we said with Siakam and we got fleeced for that.

People overestimate the value of an expiring contract. These teams do not want to hit the 2nd apron for the likes of Bruce Brown.

We either get peanuts for him or just simply let him expire.

If BB expires as a Raptor next season, Masai should personally refund the team the $23 million. Then get demoted to head of the draft team. DraftMaster. Or just fire him. He did pick Jo'Kobe #19 when Homes was still available.

This is exactly how I feel about Masai. It's totally ridiculous the amount of money he wastes when the team isn't even remotely close to being competitive. Paying Brown $23M just to retain him as an "asset" in the hopes of a trade when you already did that last year and failed to move him? This is a guy we could have kept for the minimum if we wanted to because there's no teams handing out more than that in free agency. It's similar to what they did with the Kyle Lowry deal, hold on too long and wind up eating a $20M contract just to get Precious Achiuwa then be forced to make a move to get under the tax that costs a pick.

And keeping Brown isn't even the worst overpay they've made recently, they offered Gary Trent Jr. $15M/year when no other team in the NBA was going to give him more than a minimum contract, lucked out that he though he was worth more and said no. They signed Kelly Olynyk to 2 year MLE deal when no other team was going to give him more than a minimum contract in free agency. These guys are throwing away money for no reason, the worst part is these players are semi-competent bench players so it just means the Raptors will win a few more games than they otherwise would when they should be tanking and trying to get a top 5 pick in 2025.

The above part is not true, Trent 3 years ago was worth more than minimum.

Heck, Trent this year could have got MLE type money but his agent advised him wrongly. I don't think we offered him 15M, was there some info I missed? If so my bad.

I get it, he is a specialized player, but other players with his skills make MLE. He was a victim of this year's CBA changes.

[ciueli]

What makes no sense is paying a player significantly more than that player is worth on the open market. Want to keep Brown? Just use his Bird rights to sign him at a more reasonable number, on a 1 year deal since no one is going to pay him more than the minimum. Then he actually becomes a real trade chip because he isn't making $20M more than he should be and matching salary is easier.

Again, I'll say that keeping Brown on his old contract accomplishes nothing, he isn't good enough to help us win now, and all he does is block our young players from getting more minutes as we showcase him for other teams. It's the worst of both worlds, he won't help us win, but he'll prevent us from losing too much and keep the young talent we're trying to develop off the floor.

Correct me if I'm wrong but in this case, I think the Raptors wouldn't have any rights as Brown signed a 2 year deal as an UFA and has only played one. I dunno, I think picking up Brown's option makes sense on a lot of levels, just getting the team over the cap for starters. Picking up his option also didn't stop the team from signing GTJ as some think, as that decision to move on was GTJ's before picking up Brown's option - can you imagine the Raptor Rage if the team signed him for what he was looking for? I think adding Brown in a trade would be a lot easier than an overpaid GTJ with term.

I wouldn't be too worried about the teams ability to tank their record, just trade or sit Poeltl again after the all star break and see the team plummet - we're 4-28 without him last year. Despite all the bad teams, especially in the East, I think the Raptors will come away with a pick in the 7-10 range.

They wouldn't have had his Bird rights because he signed with Indiana as a free agent but they didn't need Bird rights to sign him to a lesser contract than he was making because they'd still have his non-Bird rights (gives them the ability to sign him to a contract up to 120% of what he was making the previous season). So yes, they absolutely could have not picked up his option and offered him a new 1 year contract at a lesser amount without using the MLE. Or better, waited until Gary Trent Jr. struck out in free agency and then offered him a 1 year deal better than the minimum instead.

The only way keeping Brown makes sense is if they have a trade for him before the season begins as signing him to a new contract would prevent trading him until the end of December or so, haven't seen anything yet and there aren't any real rumours floating so I have to assume this is another misread of the market and/or they're keeping to save face over the Pascal trade.

With respect to "just sit or trade Poeltl" they won't do that, they're trying to make the play-in or even the playoffs this year, Jak is the only decent C we have on roster and there's no chance of it without him. They should have traded Jak for pick 9 in this draft and didn't do it, Buzelis who would look great for us as our future SF but I'm used to this front office having no vision by now and never being willing to trade the present for the future.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Even if you can trade him with Poeltl, it'll mean taking back a bad contract like Trae's.