Countdown: 12th Best Player In The League Right Now (Not moving forward)

[SA37]

Durant turns 36 in September, has played in an average of 53 games the past 4 years, has won 1 playoff series the past 3 years, had a playoff series where he had a PER of 13.6, and he wasn’t in the top 12 last year in PER, WS, BPM, or VORP.

His reputation is living on past performance. Most players aren’t top 12 players at age 36. Kareem and LeBron are the exception.

I have Booker and Wemby ahead of him.

I hope you're watching USA v Serbia.

Was Carlos Arroyo a top 12 player in 2004? Was Melo a top 12 player in 2016?

Did Arroyo or Melo average 27-6-5 on 52-41-85 the season before the Olympics?

At any rate, it isn't just KD, but also LeBron and Holiday who were the most effective players today. Holiday is the youngest of that trio at 34.

I just find it silly people keep trying to rank these guys lower because of their age.

[NZB2323]

I hope you're watching USA v Serbia.

Was Carlos Arroyo a top 12 player in 2004? Was Melo a top 12 player in 2016?

Did Arroyo or Melo average 27-6-5 on 52-41-85 the season before the Olympics?

At any rate, it isn't just KD, but also LeBron and Holiday who were the most effective players today. Holiday is the youngest of that trio at 34.

I just find it silly people keep trying to rank these guys lower because of their age.

2024 KD: 27-6-5, 21.2 PER
2016 Melo: 22-8-6, 20.3 PER

It’s quite common for players past their primes to get overrated. AD has been better than Lebron for some time. Allen Iverson was voted an all-star starter in 2010. I’ll take a sample size of 4 years over 1 FIBA game.

[picc]

I'll vote for KD out of respect and seniority but there's no way Wemby is off any top 10 list next year.

[SA37]

2024 KD: 27-6-5, 21.2 PER
2016 Melo: 22-8-6, 20.3 PER

It’s quite common for players past their primes to get overrated. AD has been better than Lebron for some time. Allen Iverson was voted an all-star starter in 2010. I’ll take a sample size of 4 years over 1 FIBA game.

So, no, Melo's numbers were not as good as KDs (Melo averaged 4 assts, not 6 and Melo's shooting splits were 43-34-83 versus KD 52-41-85) and Melo was selected as an all-star, but Durant was not only an all-star, but he was selected to the 2nd team All-NBA and finished 9th in MVP voting. Do you really want to argue that those who vote for the all-NBA team are the ones doing the "overrating" of Durant? Do you really want to argue that the Olympic team staff is playing Durant and not, say, Tatum or Haliburton, because they overrate Durant?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duranke01.html

Iverson is a silly example to bring up, especially when we're talking about all-star voting, which is mainly a popularity contest. At any rate, Melo and Iverson were pretty much one-dimensional players in that they were only valuable if they had the ball in their hands and could take 20+ shots per game. Durant is a superior player to either Iverson or Melo. He's an infinitely better defender and shooter and I'd argue the better scorer. It's kind of embarrassing to even try to compare those 2 to Durant, imo.

And, I disagree on AD being better than LeBron. I don't even think AD would make that argument.

[iggymcfrack]

Looked at the results and took a break from voting Hali to vote Wemby this time. Come on guys, this ain’t close. Wemby was played out of position for half the year, was sabotaged by not being given a starting point guard, and he STILL averaged better stats than Durant last year by pretty much every available metric.

Now he’s improved greatly from the player he was at the beginning of last season while KD continues to decline, and he’s also much more durable than KD with better non-box impact. Taking KD over Wemby is objectively ABSURD.

And yes, I saw he had a hot shooting night on a sueprteam, congrats. If this was about who can best shoot high percentages in non-competitive situations surrounded by superior talent, then KD’s the guy. The only reason you’d ever choose KD over Wemby in the NBA though is if you already have a rim protecting center. If Wemby can play the 5 without pushing a star out of position he’s always going to be more valuable than KD. Of course there’s always a huge swath of people that just forget defense exists.

[iggymcfrack]

I'll vote for KD out of respect and seniority but there's no way Wemby is off any top 10 list next year.

“Respect and seniority” is a terrible reason to vote for someone. Thats just means he’s one step closer to washed. There’s a better chance that Wemby’s a better offensive player than KD this coming season than there is that KD’s a better player overall. I honestly can’t imagine it unless Wemby misses time with injury. He was an easy top 10 player after the all-star break when he was being played in his correct position.

[Inspektor1312]

Haliburton will win MVP this year, and this list will look really off

Even if he does win the award(which he won't), did you not see the "not moving forward" part of the title?

[pr0wler]

KD and he should have been higher

People are using the fact that he got traded to the overrated PHX Suns, who have underperformed, as leverage against him.

Meanwhile KD still doing his thing 27+ PPG on elite efficiency, but hey I guess that doesn't count for much since the GM constructed the team poorly!

[NZB2323]

KD and he should have been higher

People are using the fact that he got traded to the overrated PHX Suns, who have underperformed, as leverage against him.

Meanwhile KD still doing his thing 27+ PPG on elite efficiency, but hey I guess that doesn't count for much since the GM constructed the team poorly!

And what about 2022, when he was on the Nets, only played in 55 games, and got swept in the playoffs with a PER of 13.6, a -2.9 BPM, a VORP of 0, and a +/- of -52.9?

[Edrees]

I got haliburton for the next spot

[pr0wler]

KD and he should have been higher

People are using the fact that he got traded to the overrated PHX Suns, who have underperformed, as leverage against him.

Meanwhile KD still doing his thing 27+ PPG on elite efficiency, but hey I guess that doesn't count for much since the GM constructed the team poorly!

And what about 2022, when he was on the Nets, only played in 55 games, and got swept in the playoffs with a PER of 13.6, a -2.9 BPM, a VORP of 0, and a +/- of -52.9?

Over a 4 game sample size? Cool story bro.

[brackdan70]

Haliburton will win MVP this year, and this list will look really off

Even if he does win the award(which he won't), did you not see the "not moving forward" part of the title?

Well I assume by “not moving forward” we are talking about this year…I think projection to this coming season is probably fair. I think by not moving forward the op is trying to delineate between who do you build around (potential) and best player right now.

[NZB2323]

People are using the fact that he got traded to the overrated PHX Suns, who have underperformed, as leverage against him.

Meanwhile KD still doing his thing 27+ PPG on elite efficiency, but hey I guess that doesn't count for much since the GM constructed the team poorly!

And what about 2022, when he was on the Nets, only played in 55 games, and got swept in the playoffs with a PER of 13.6, a -2.9 BPM, a VORP of 0, and a +/- of -52.9?

Over a 4 game sample size? Cool story bro.

How about a 4 year sample size?

53 games played per season, 2 all-NBA teams, 13-18 in playoff games.

[Jadoogar]

12 KD
13 Brown
14 Mitchell
15 Booker
16 Kawhi
17 Butler
18 Morant
19 Haliburton
20 Sabonis

That’s the rest of the top 20.

Wemby should absolutely be in the top 20. I think guys like Butler and Kawhi are very hard to rank because who knows how much they are going to play.

[pr0wler]

And what about 2022, when he was on the Nets, only played in 55 games, and got swept in the playoffs with a PER of 13.6, a -2.9 BPM, a VORP of 0, and a +/- of -52.9?

Over a 4 game sample size? Cool story bro.

How about a 4 year sample size?

53 games played per season, 2 all-NBA teams, 13-18 in playoff games.

He's a great player who's been on some so-so teams the past few seasons.

One player =/ an entire team.

[NZB2323]

Over a 4 game sample size? Cool story bro.

How about a 4 year sample size?

53 games played per season, 2 all-NBA teams, 13-18 in playoff games.

He's a great player who's been on some so-so teams the past few seasons.

One player =/ an entire team.

He's had Kyrie Irving and Devin Booker as running mates. Now he's a good player who plays in half of the regular season games and loses in the playoffs, similar to Kawhi.

[elchengue20]

Based on last season, KD.

Based on their level right now and what's going to happen next season, it's Wemby. DPOY level defense and he's going to be very good offensively.

You can argue he could be higher on this list too.

[SeanieWard]

Are these poll results due to his recent performance in the Olympics? I have no issues with KD being voted the 12th best player in the league. In fact, I would probably have him top 10 but I didn't expect it to be this lopsided

[iggymcfrack]

KD and he should have been higher

People are using the fact that he got traded to the overrated PHX Suns, who have underperformed, as leverage against him.

Meanwhile KD still doing his thing 27+ PPG on elite efficiency, but hey I guess that doesn't count for much since the GM constructed the team poorly!

It's not about the team. If anyone's having their team held against them it's Wemby. It's about KD ranking outside the top 20 in both EPM and BPM, being injury prone, and not providing much non-box impact. If we were voting for most valuable scorer, KD's 27 PPG would be a clear qualifier, but if we're talking overall impact, Wemby's crazy defense is more dominant that Durant's offense and Wemby's offense is much more valuable than Durant's defense.