2024 Olympic BASKETBALL Thread (Pt. 2: Let the Games Begin!)

[John Murdoch]

Now the rest of us know what it must have felt like cheering for the KD warriors

[AmIWrongDude]

LeBron is the engine and KD and Steph are the killers. Whether they like it or not, everyone else needs to adjust their game to support that even if they’re not used to it.

[They_Them_Hatin]

My goat KD really put on a show. Lebron was amazing as well. That Lebron White KD AD Bam lineup is the best one. Jrue was also good. Ant was good but kind of a ball hog. Booker & Curry were alright. Embiid needs to join Tatum and Hali on the bench.

I wish people would stop crying about Tatum. I didn’t enjoy watching him last Olympics & the combo of players are better w/o him.

[TheFire]

USA is a really bad matchup for Serbia. Their perimeter players just get totally exposed and they have enough elite bigs to tire Jokic out. I think Canada, Germany and Australia are better suited to beat USA even though I think Serbia would beat all those teams.

[lambchop]

USA is a really bad matchup for Serbia. Their perimeter players just get totally exposed and they have enough elite bigs to tire Jokic out. I think Canada, Germany and Australia are better suited to beat USA even though I think Serbia would beat all those teams.

This is a solid take. Serbia's perimeter players can't create against NBA level ball pressure. The Serbs ended up shooting quite a lot of airballs in that game at the end of the shot clock cause there simply weren't any quality shots available before that.

Schroder, Wagner, Giddey, SGA, etc. can still execute their teams' gameplan against the US, cause they play against that level of athleticism night it and night out.

[UcanUwill]

USA is a really bad matchup for Serbia. Their perimeter players just get totally exposed and they have enough elite bigs to tire Jokic out. I think Canada, Germany and Australia are better suited to beat USA even though I think Serbia would beat all those teams.

Yes, i said same thing. I think Canada, Germany and France should have better chance beating USA, but Serbia probably has better chance at beating everybody else.

[rockmanslim]

Next game vs S. Sudan finna be lit. Either a medieval revenge beat down by the US or a historic upset by S. Sudan.

[Edrees]

Re: pretty much all non-Americans treat Olympic basketball and World Cup basketball as the same. I'm skeptical that y'all really know this. I'm sure that among those around you this is true, but I doubt you've done any global surveys. That said, I don't know it not to be the case either.

Pretty much all non americans, oh except the best basketball player in the world, Jokic. He didn't care enough about World Cup to play in it, but he's here in the Olympics. If the best basketball player (and certaintly best non americna player in the world) doesn't take the world cup seriously, why should anyone?


Like imagine Jokic deciding he doesn't want to partake in the NBA playoffs and just decides to sit at home. He would never do that. and he'd never do that for the Olympics either.

[durden_tyler]

Nigeria leading big at halftime against Australia. (women’s basketball).

Should be one of the biggest upset in the tourney if they pull this off.


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[durden_tyler]

Next game vs S. Sudan finna be lit. Either a medieval revenge beat down by the US or a historic upset by S. Sudan.

USA are 30.5 point favorites vs South Sudan.

This is “no chance in hell” category.


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[chudak]

Re: pretty much all non-Americans treat Olympic basketball and World Cup basketball as the same. I'm skeptical that y'all really know this. I'm sure that among those around you this is true, but I doubt you've done any global surveys. That said, I don't know it not to be the case either.

Pretty much all non americans, oh except the best basketball player in the world, Jokic. He didn't care enough about World Cup to play in it, but he's here in the Olympics. If the best basketball player (and certaintly best non americna player in the world) doesn't take the world cup seriously, why should anyone?


Like imagine Jokic deciding he doesn't want to partake in the NBA playoffs and just decides to sit at home. He would never do that. and he'd never do that for the Olympics either.

Jokic agreed to play even in the Olympics 3 weeks before the team was assembled and he did it low key. He dropped out of the World Cup a few weeks before too, as he was not in shape after winning the Championship and needed the rest.

I don't think this was an easy decision for him to play or not to play.

[UcanUwill]

Next game vs S. Sudan finna be lit. Either a medieval revenge beat down by the US or a historic upset by S. Sudan.

USA are 30.5 point favorites vs South Sudan.

This is “no chance in hell” category.


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I would bet over here, they will make a statement, that 1 point win is still being talked about. They will end it.

[durden_tyler]

Next game vs S. Sudan finna be lit. Either a medieval revenge beat down by the US or a historic upset by S. Sudan.

USA are 30.5 point favorites vs South Sudan.

This is “no chance in hell” category.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would bet over here, they will make a statement, that 1 point win is still being talked about. They will end it.

Totals at 190.5. Very high by international ball standards but i like your lean and reasoning.

[lambchop]

Next game vs S. Sudan finna be lit. Either a medieval revenge beat down by the US or a historic upset by S. Sudan.

USA are 30.5 point favorites vs South Sudan.

This is “no chance in hell” category.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would bet over here, they will make a statement, that 1 point win is still being talked about. They will end it.

With KD playing and without Hali/JT interfering, the US could absolutely destroy South Sudan. That said, I expect Kerr to play everyone these next two games.

[chudak]

I appreciate your civil tone and your willingness to acknowledge my view point.

Things I'd note:

1. The IOC stopped allowing the best association football players (>23) to play at precisely the same Games as they court the best basketball players in the world. Why did they do this? Because they couldn't compete with the FIFA World Cup but the FIBA World Championship (later rebranded "Cup") was not seen as a comparable threat. The IOC it should be note was founded by Europeans and the 1992 games was played in Europe.

So something I would maintain that I really folks just need to get right with:

If you think that the FIFA World Cup and FIBA World Cup are roughly equal in stature within their sports, you're just wrong. Were things otherwise, the IOC would have treated the two sports similarly in 1992.

(Of course you could argue that the IOC was just plain confused when they did this, but what I'm getting from folks here in general is a lack of awareness of the context of those 1992 decisions, so I don't really think folks here are qualified to argue they know better what the IOC should have done 30+ years ago.)

(And to the notion possible rebuttal that 1992 is no longer relevant to how the two tourneys are seen today, I'll acknowledge that things can change, but literally anyone bringing up the U23 aspect of association football in the Olympics is elevating the significance of those 1992 decisions to the current discussion, even though they probably don't realize it.)

2. I would suggest that you don't actually know how big of a deal it would be to win the Olympic Gold Medal in basketball compared to winning the FIBA World Cup, because if you're a 21st century fan and you're not American, you've never experienced this (winning both tourneys). I would suggest that the next time a non-USA Gold Medalist occurs, the star of the team will probably be a considerably bigger deal than Dennis Schroeder is now.

Just consider what it would mean to beat this Team USA with LeBron/KD/Curry and all of the top American talent. You don't think that would be bigger bragging rights than beating Team USA's with less star power?

3. Casual European fan sees no difference between Olympics basketball Gold and FIBA World Cup chip. So, I can't claim to know better than anyone else about this, but I would say this:

The Olympics in general are a much, much, much bigger deal than the FIBA World Cup.

This doesn't necessarily mean that winning the Olympic gold medal in basketball is worth more than winning the World Cup of course, because basketball is just one event in the Olympics, but when we're talking about casual fans in general, they're far more aware that the Olympics are happening than the FIBA World Cup is happening. If there is any nation on earth where this isn't true, I'd be quite surprised.

And since basically everybody knows that basketball is a part of the Olympics, that means implicitly people are more aware that Olympic basketball is happening when it is happening than they are aware of the FIBA World Cup when its happening.

Is it possible that while more people are aware of Olympic basketball than World Cup basketball, the passion of that minority that pays attention to the World Cup of basketball that it in some way surpasses Olympic basketball? Yes, it's theoretically possible.

But,

a - I'd be really curious to seem some objective data that supports this.
b - I think almost by definition this would be based on non-casual fan support, since as casual fans of sport will always be more familiar with the Olympics.

I see what you stated as more of point of view than fact, but hey I could be wrong.

I understand the sentiment that Olympics are a bigger event than the world cup, but pretty much all non US people I know treat the world cup and the olympics basketball tournament as the same

Too many other sports and medals at the same time during the olympics and you feel like a part of something bigger for sure as you have a 100 more people from your nation competing for medals

I am fine with the US citizens not thinking about it the same way about a single sport tournament like the FIBA world cup being worth less in the same way americans would not care that I dont care about american football and in the same way someone from India does not care that I dont care abour cricket.

In terms of the context of the 1989 decision that gave NBA players the right to play in the Olympics they were allowed because both FIBA and IOC got worried that they will end up with NBA players playing at Goodwill games that tried to compete with the Olympics like ABA tried to compete with NBA

FIBA didnt like the NBA because it was not under FIBA jurisdiction like most national leagues. They have a similar problem with Euroleague today.

Olympics tournament is also a FIBA tournament while Goodwill games were not and if Goodwill games won than both Olympics and FIBA would lose on the most prestigious event

The reson why FIFA didnt do the same for Olympic football (soccer) was that it wanted to keep the FIFA World Cup as the undisputed no 1 event for football and it did not face similar competition otherwise we would see the best football (soccer) players there too

“ Prior to the 1992 Olympics, FIBA rules specifically prevented NBA players from participating in Olympic tournaments, and only amateurs were eligible for the U.S. Olympic teams, which were composed of collegiate and, at times (especially in the 1950s), AAU players. Other countries used their best players from their domestic professional leagues.[8] In the 1988 Summer Olympics, the Americans lost to the USSR and settled for bronze, their worst finish in the history of the tournament.[9]
On 7 April 1989, at a special congress in Munich following the 1988–89 FIBA European Champions Cup finals, FIBA delegates voted, by a margin of 56 to 13, to allow professional basketball players to participate in its international events, including the World Cup and the Olympics. The decision led to professional players, particularly those from the United States' National Basketball Association, dominating the sport at the highest levels of international competition. The change also warded off competition from the Goodwill Games, the biggest rival of the Olympics at the time, which was seeking to bring professional players into its basketball events.[10][11][12] The Amateur Basketball Association of the United States of America (ABAUSA, renamed USA Basketball after the vote) voted against it due to "colleges and high schools that make up most of [ABAUSA's] constituency [opposing] it." The Soviet proposal to limit the national teams to only two NBA players for the first few years was then unanimously rejected.

USA Basketball asked the NBA to supply players for its 1992 roster;[15] the league was initially unenthusiastic about this idea.[8] In early 1991, Sports Illustrated labeled the forthcoming American roster as the "Dream Team" on the cover of its February 18 issue.[16][15]
“

I continue to appreciate your tone chudak. I know my POV and tone is bound to rub people the wrong way here, so I'm glad to be able to converse with someone who isn't letting that bother them.

I also want to continue emphasizing: I'm not one of these nativist American basketball fans trying to deny the globalization of the game. I absolutely love it and look forward to the time when American basketball opinion matters no more than, say, Brazilian football opinion.

Re: "Not many people care about olympic soccer as it never has the biggest stars, as there are various restrictions stopping them from playing." As I've said, the restrictions for Olympic soccer aren't the cause but the effect. Because of the prominence of the World Cup, Olympic soccer didn't really have a purpose. So they changed rules to effectively make it like a junior World Cup.

Worth noting: There was a time when the Olympics had the biggest world soccer tournament. Then FIFA decided to revolt. They created the World Cup (1930) and they stopped holding an Olympics soccer competition (1932). It was brought back in 1936 because host Germany insisted.

So yeah, just keep in mind with all of this that it was political long before any of us were born, and what FIFA represents is the rare case where a spot split off and made their own tournament bigger than what existed in the Olympics.

Re: pretty much all non-Americans treat Olympic basketball and World Cup basketball as the same. I'm skeptical that y'all really know this. I'm sure that among those around you this is true, but I doubt you've done any global surveys. That said, I don't know it not to be the case either.

A key question I'd ask is this: When do you think the FIBA World Cup began matching the Olympics for basketball stature? Like, do you think it was the equal of the Olympics when it was called the "World Championship"? If so, they do you think they changed the name to ape the FIFA World Cup many decades after it started being played?

Re: "The reson why FIFA didnt do the same for Olympic football (soccer) was that it wanted to keep the FIFA World Cup as the undisputed no 1 event for football and it did not face similar competition otherwise we would see the best football (soccer) players there too". The same logic would seem to apply to basketball. FIBA would love the FIBA World Championship/Cup to be the biggest basketball tournament in the world, so why didn't they undermine Olympic basketball the same way FIFA seemed to undermine Olympic football?

Part of what you quoted is really central to this:

NBA players didn't come play in the Olympics/World Championship just because FIBA "let them". All of international basketball was at the mercy of the NBA. And the NBA was won over by this:



It was entirely about the Olympics.

Note that 2 years later in 1994 at the FIBA World Championship, Team USA showed up with an entirely different roster with far less talent. Why? Because the best basketball players in the world - at that point quite clearly existing 99% in the US - didn't care about the FIBA World Championship in at all the same way.

So because the NBA saw the appeal of the Olympics, the Olympics became the place where the best basketball team in the history of the sport played. And to this day, the Olympics continues to be the place that has the most talented team in the world.

Cool if other countries appreciate the FIBA World Championship as much as the Olympics, in part because it allows them to care about something much easier to win and give their nation something to celebrate. But any illusion that they've done so by beating the best of the world must be stripped away to see things clearly.

Beating the US at the FIBA World Cup is a great start, but until the Field becomes more likely to beat the US at the Olympics, there's no doubt where the actual international champion is determined.

About the first part I kind of agree as I do belive its more about difference in opinions and views than a straight argument. And yes World Cup -> World Championship was probably mainly about trying to get the same attention as football. And in general all of it was political.

About the second part - yes I agree completely. The NBA definitely prefers the Olympics over a FIBA competition that does not have the same type of a stage, and as an US and NBA fan I could see you valuing it more. And the players valuing it more too.

In most european circles when I talk to people around 80% of the people prefer watching the NBA and 20% prefer Euroleague, but everyone holds NBA in higher regards because of the players - so I understand the point there.

When it comes to valuing achievements it is a bit different though and I would say that my US friends look at it like this:

1) NBA champion 2) Olympics medal 3) everything else

while Europeans that I know have a different mindset:

1) National team medal at Olympics or World Cup) 2) National Team medal European Championship 3) NBA champion 4) Euroleague 5) everything else

So in Europe in general National team basketball is way more popular than NBA or Euroleague and you do not have the biggest tournament every year. Caring only about Olympics which is every 4 years would be silly for these people, but its just a different frame of reference.

[chudak]

USA is a really bad matchup for Serbia. Their perimeter players just get totally exposed and they have enough elite bigs to tire Jokic out. I think Canada, Germany and Australia are better suited to beat USA even though I think Serbia would beat all those teams.

If you want to build a team around Jokic you also probably want different type of players (with a few exceptions) or you have Jokic playing Power Forward which does not maximize his strengths.

[CodeBreaker]

There's simply not enough minutes for everyone to play. USA played good. If you're a fan you should be happy. They were fun to watch and hopefully keep playing this way. If they keep playing this way they're going to win the gold. It's pretty awesome to watch KD, Curry, and Durant play together before they retire.

Only Celtics fans were not having fun watching that game

[Rastas]

There's simply not enough minutes for everyone to play. USA played good. If you're a fan you should be happy. They were fun to watch and hopefully keep playing this way. If they keep playing this way they're going to win the gold. It's pretty awesome to watch KD, Curry, and Durant play together before they retire.

Only Celtics fans were not having fun watching that game

Agreed , but I look at it as Kerr giving the Celtics plenty of reasons to bury the competition next season , they wont be the hunted - they will go extra hard against every team USA members team.

[itrsteve]

There's simply not enough minutes for everyone to play. USA played good. If you're a fan you should be happy. They were fun to watch and hopefully keep playing this way. If they keep playing this way they're going to win the gold. It's pretty awesome to watch KD, Curry, and Durant play together before they retire.

Only Celtics fans were not having fun watching that game

Why's that? Every time I looked either Holiday or White was on the floor. That's a pretty decent sign given the talent on the roster.

The Tatum thing is what it is. Didn't make sense to put him in that game when KD was lights out.

[ITYSL]

There's simply not enough minutes for everyone to play. USA played good. If you're a fan you should be happy. They were fun to watch and hopefully keep playing this way. If they keep playing this way they're going to win the gold. It's pretty awesome to watch KD, Curry, and Durant play together before they retire.

Only Celtics fans were not having fun watching that game

Why's that? Every time I looked either Holiday or White was on the floor. That's a pretty decent sign given the talent on the roster.

The Tatum thing is what it is. Didn't make sense to put him in that game when KD was lights out.

Exactly, I thought the game was fantastic. Jrue and White playing great were certainly part of that, but it was also just awesome to watch LeBron and KD go HAM.

If I'm being honest with myself, watching Embiid play like trash and then whine to the refs was a bit of a cherry on top. I like Embiid as a person but am definitely a hater of him as a player.