2024-25 Regular Season

[JonFromVA]

Fedor reported that the Cavs' offer to Okoro is 3-4 years at $8-10m per year.

That would make a lot of sense given their cap situation, and given it's below MLE let alone the much bigger contracts some players are getting; it's understandable that Isaac is hesitant to accept it.

If we have to wait for the Jazz to move Markkanen before teams around the league focus on whether or not they want to work out a S&T trade involving Isaac or just flat out make him an offer, we may be waiting a while longer.

[toooskies]

Fedor reported that the Cavs' offer to Okoro is 3-4 years at $8-10m per year.

That would make a lot of sense given their cap situation, and given it's below MLE let alone the much bigger contracts some players are getting; it's understandable that Isaac is hesitant to accept it.

If we have to wait for the Jazz to move Markkanen before teams around the league focus on whether or not they want to work out a S&T trade involving Isaac or just flat out make him an offer, we may be waiting a while longer.

It's playing out pretty much exactly how Sexton's RFA situation went: the Cavs are being a stickler about the tax in negotiations, the player isn't getting offers. There's a player the Cavs just acquired (Levert in Sexton's case, Tyson in Okoro's) that can backfill the minutes the other player would have gotten.

But Okoro signing the QO is a better option for him than it was for Sexton.

[gflem]

Our players are still young, so that's a silver lining lol

But yes, Knicks and 76ers have made huge improvements this summer.

Celtics didn't need to do much, Bucks still right there.

We'll see what else the Magic and Pacers do.

As is, Cavs sitting probably at 5th or 6th.

Koby really does need to be fired, it's not 2017 anymore, time for some fresh eyes on this roster construction.

If they are really running it back then I agree. I think this roster has topped out at a second round exit. To me, Garland has to be moved, I know most here won't agree saying that moving him would be selling low, but he is paid like he's Chris Paul but he plays like Jeff Teague. I understand if Mitchell doesn't extend then he has to be moved but he is better now than Garland will ever be imo.
Just sitting on the sidelines while other contenders in the East are improving really bothers me, and the architect of this roster is also responsible for the ongoing paralysis in terms of improving this roster. It looks to me like Kobe is just trying to hang on to his job for one more season, but this Mitchell extension delay may be the end of Kobe's time here.

And this is how you get fired as an actual GM. You don't sell your 24-year old PG after an injury-plagued, down season. You definitely don't do that while there's still a chance Mitchell could tell you he wants a trade.

The Celtics just hung their 18th Championship banner because they didn't freak out after a couple of disappointing playoff runs and trade Tatum or Brown.

So the Mitchell part of the equation has been solved. Nothing else has imo. JB may have been part of the problem, but I don't see Atkinson having some kind of magic wand that will suddenly make Garland an even passable defender.
DG is a good regular season player, but unless he is hitting 7-8 threes a game in the playoffs he is a net negative on the floor. Good teams hunt him on D, and easily take him out of the game on offense with a simple trap. DG doesn't split double teams on offense and can't/won't fight over screens on D. He doesn't play well off ball and is not yet a real catch and shoot threat.
Even Atkinson said in his opening presser that the team "can't play switching defense with Garland." That limits what the team can do on defense against the best teams in the league. DG not getting over picks leads to our bigs leaving their position to cover for this, which often leads to fouls on our bigs and easy offensive rebounds for the opposition. Good team take advantage of this over and over again.
It seems that the Spurs and Pels GM's would agree. Now of course DG's salary and the Cav's asking price may play a part, but the fact that there didn't seem to be much interest around the league is telling. We have seen the better part of two seasons with Mitchell and Garland together and the results in the regular season have been ok at best. In the playoffs it just hasn't worked.

[JujitsuFlip]

Fedor reported that the Cavs' offer to Okoro is 3-4 years at $8-10m per year.

Getting Okoro on a 3 year $25 million deal for the Cavs would be a win. Not sure what incentive there is for Okoro's camp to agree to that though.

[JonFromVA]

[/b]
If they are really running it back then I agree. I think this roster has topped out at a second round exit. To me, Garland has to be moved, I know most here won't agree saying that moving him would be selling low, but he is paid like he's Chris Paul but he plays like Jeff Teague. I understand if Mitchell doesn't extend then he has to be moved but he is better now than Garland will ever be imo.
Just sitting on the sidelines while other contenders in the East are improving really bothers me, and the architect of this roster is also responsible for the ongoing paralysis in terms of improving this roster. It looks to me like Kobe is just trying to hang on to his job for one more season, but this Mitchell extension delay may be the end of Kobe's time here.

And this is how you get fired as an actual GM. You don't sell your 24-year old PG after an injury-plagued, down season. You definitely don't do that while there's still a chance Mitchell could tell you he wants a trade.

The Celtics just hung their 18th Championship banner because they didn't freak out after a couple of disappointing playoff runs and trade Tatum or Brown.

So the Mitchell part of the equation has been solved. Nothing else has imo. JB may have been part of the problem, but I don't see Atkinson having some kind of magic wand that will suddenly make Garland an even passable defender.
DG is a good regular season player, but unless he is hitting 7-8 threes a game in the playoffs he is a net negative on the floor. Good teams hunt him on D, and easily take him out of the game on offense with a simple trap. DG doesn't split double teams on offense and can't/won't fight over screens on D. He doesn't play well off ball and is not yet a real catch and shoot threat.
Even Atkinson said in his opening presser that the team "can't play switching defense with Garland." That limits what the team can do on defense against the best teams in the league. DG not getting over picks leads to our bigs leaving their position to cover for this, which often leads to fouls on our bigs and easy offensive rebounds for the opposition. Good team take advantage of this over and over again.
It seems that the Spurs and Pels GM's would agree. Now of course DG's salary and the Cav's asking price may play a part, but the fact that there didn't seem to be much interest around the league is telling. We have seen the better part of two seasons with Mitchell and Garland together and the results in the regular season have been ok at best. In the playoffs it just hasn't worked.

You had me at "most here won't agree"

But I'm still going to say this for the 100th time ... Garland's biggest challenge is staying healthy. If he can pull that off and/or Atkinson can help him, he's going to be more than fine, and if we do decide the fit isn't right with Mitchell, at least we'll get value for him.

Garland does have value around the league, but selling low on him is just stupid.

[JujitsuFlip]

https://www.si.com/nba/nets/news/brooklyn-nets-reportedly-interested-in-sign-and-trade-for-isaac-okoro-01j3xx6gxgq2

Would be cool to land 1 or both of DFS and Cam Johnson.

[toooskies]

https://www.si.com/nba/nets/news/brooklyn-nets-reportedly-interested-in-sign-and-trade-for-isaac-okoro-01j3xx6gxgq2

Would be cool to land 1 or both of DFS and Cam Johnson.

This SI story cites a HoopsHype story that mentions Cleveland might be interested in DFS/CamJo, not the other way around. Just a game of poor journalism telephone.

[jbk1234]

[/b]
If they are really running it back then I agree. I think this roster has topped out at a second round exit. To me, Garland has to be moved, I know most here won't agree saying that moving him would be selling low, but he is paid like he's Chris Paul but he plays like Jeff Teague. I understand if Mitchell doesn't extend then he has to be moved but he is better now than Garland will ever be imo.
Just sitting on the sidelines while other contenders in the East are improving really bothers me, and the architect of this roster is also responsible for the ongoing paralysis in terms of improving this roster. It looks to me like Kobe is just trying to hang on to his job for one more season, but this Mitchell extension delay may be the end of Kobe's time here.

And this is how you get fired as an actual GM. You don't sell your 24-year old PG after an injury-plagued, down season. You definitely don't do that while there's still a chance Mitchell could tell you he wants a trade.

The Celtics just hung their 18th Championship banner because they didn't freak out after a couple of disappointing playoff runs and trade Tatum or Brown.

So the Mitchell part of the equation has been solved. Nothing else has imo. JB may have been part of the problem, but I don't see Atkinson having some kind of magic wand that will suddenly make Garland an even passable defender.
DG is a good regular season player, but unless he is hitting 7-8 threes a game in the playoffs he is a net negative on the floor. Good teams hunt him on D, and easily take him out of the game on offense with a simple trap. DG doesn't split double teams on offense and can't/won't fight over screens on D. He doesn't play well off ball and is not yet a real catch and shoot threat.
Even Atkinson said in his opening presser that the team "can't play switching defense with Garland." That limits what the team can do on defense against the best teams in the league. DG not getting over picks leads to our bigs leaving their position to cover for this, which often leads to fouls on our bigs and easy offensive rebounds for the opposition. Good team take advantage of this over and over again.
It seems that the Spurs and Pels GM's would agree. Now of course DG's salary and the Cav's asking price may play a part, but the fact that there didn't seem to be much interest around the league is telling. We have seen the better part of two seasons with Mitchell and Garland together and the results in the regular season have been ok at best. In the playoffs it just hasn't worked.

I mean Garland had a better series against the Knicks than Mitchell (who is also a defensive liability). If an opposing team traps Garland, and we can't take advantage of the fact the rest of the team is playing 4-3, that's a huge coaching failure. Garland is a surgeon against drop coverage and both the Knicks and Bucks run it.

I don't know how you look at a Celtics series that Mitchell missed most of and conclude it just hasn't worked. We won the first series.

[JujitsuFlip]

I can't lie, it feels like an overpay but good on Allen for securing the bag. Koby going all in on this core.

[jbk1234]

I can't lie, it feels like an overpay but good on Allen for securing the bag. Koby going all in on this core.

His salary doesn't hit $30M until the new TV contract kicks in. Rookie max deals will start at like $50M by then. It's a very solid contract.

[JujitsuFlip]

I can't lie, it feels like an overpay but good on Allen for securing the bag. Koby going all in on this core.

His salary doesn't hit $30M until the new TV contract kicks in. Rookie max deals will start at like $50M by then. It's a very solid contract.

It's just difficult when in conjunction with the other 3 parts of the core4.

Doesn't feel like there's gonna be much roster flexibility with cap smoothing and 4 guys making a combined $160 million.

[toooskies]

I can't lie, it feels like an overpay but good on Allen for securing the bag. Koby going all in on this core.

His salary doesn't hit $30M until the new TV contract kicks in. Rookie max deals will start at like $50M by then. It's a very solid contract.

It's just difficult when in conjunction with the other 3 parts of the core4.

Doesn't feel like there's gonna be much roster flexibility with cap smoothing and 4 guys making a combined $160 million.

Hartenstein is making that money this year. Claxton will make roughly the same over the next 4 years as Allen. It's the going rate for a solid center although Allen's track record is better than both.

[JonFromVA]

His salary doesn't hit $30M until the new TV contract kicks in. Rookie max deals will start at like $50M by then. It's a very solid contract.

It's just difficult when in conjunction with the other 3 parts of the core4.

Doesn't feel like there's gonna be much roster flexibility with cap smoothing and 4 guys making a combined $160 million.

Hartenstein is making that money this year. Claxton will make roughly the same over the next 4 years as Allen. It's the going rate for a solid center although Allen's track record is better than both.

Exactly, and if we need to pinch some pennies or move Mobley to C, it should be a tradable deal for the same reasons.

[JujitsuFlip]

His salary doesn't hit $30M until the new TV contract kicks in. Rookie max deals will start at like $50M by then. It's a very solid contract.

It's just difficult when in conjunction with the other 3 parts of the core4.

Doesn't feel like there's gonna be much roster flexibility with cap smoothing and 4 guys making a combined $160 million.

Hartenstein is making that money this year. Claxton will make roughly the same over the next 4 years as Allen. It's the going rate for a solid center although Allen's track record is better than both.

I don't like any of those dudes at $30 million per season. They're rim protectors who can't shoot.

Also, this means Mobley never gets to slide to his natural position of 5.

Koby is just really double and tripling down on a core that has not even made an ECF yet.

[toooskies]

It's just difficult when in conjunction with the other 3 parts of the core4.

Doesn't feel like there's gonna be much roster flexibility with cap smoothing and 4 guys making a combined $160 million.

Hartenstein is making that money this year. Claxton will make roughly the same over the next 4 years as Allen. It's the going rate for a solid center although Allen's track record is better than both.

I don't like any of those dudes at $30 million per season. They're rim protectors who can't shoot.

Also, this means Mobley never gets to slide to his natural position of 5.

Koby is just really double and tripling down on a core that has not even made an ECF yet.

Mobley is skinny and is working hard on his shooting. He might be a natural 4 if he doesn't put on weight.

[JujitsuFlip]

Hartenstein is making that money this year. Claxton will make roughly the same over the next 4 years as Allen. It's the going rate for a solid center although Allen's track record is better than both.

I don't like any of those dudes at $30 million per season. They're rim protectors who can't shoot.

Also, this means Mobley never gets to slide to his natural position of 5.

Koby is just really double and tripling down on a core that has not even made an ECF yet.

Mobley is skinny and is working hard on his shooting. He might be a natural 4 if he doesn't put on weight.

Allen is skinny too lol its not like we have a guy at 5 with a Jokic, Embiid, or Vuc build.

[toooskies]

I don't like any of those dudes at $30 million per season. They're rim protectors who can't shoot.

Also, this means Mobley never gets to slide to his natural position of 5.

Koby is just really double and tripling down on a core that has not even made an ECF yet.

Mobley is skinny and is working hard on his shooting. He might be a natural 4 if he doesn't put on weight.

Allen is skinny too lol its not like we have a guy at 5 with a Jokic, Embiid, or Vuc build.

Allen's at least 240+, while Mobley's still down around 220.

[JonFromVA]

I don't like any of those dudes at $30 million per season. They're rim protectors who can't shoot.

Also, this means Mobley never gets to slide to his natural position of 5.

Koby is just really double and tripling down on a core that has not even made an ECF yet.

Mobley is skinny and is working hard on his shooting. He might be a natural 4 if he doesn't put on weight.

Allen is skinny too lol its not like we have a guy at 5 with a Jokic, Embiid, or Vuc build.

And yet, Allen is 28lbs heavier than Evan while Embiid is 37lbs heavier than Allen.

What we get In return, are a couple of mobile rim protecting bigs who can defend out to the 3pt line and move their feet which is pretty rare capability I'm hoping both retain as they get older.

And often things aren't dictated by what we prefer, but by what the player prefers. I believe Anthony Davis was able to put on weight faster than Evan and even as he's climbed up to 253lbs he's always insisted he didn't want to play C.

[toooskies]

Hayward decided to retire. Thought he might've been nice on a minimum although I'm not sure we could afford the roster spot to sign him over a big.

[JujitsuFlip]

Mobley is skinny and is working hard on his shooting. He might be a natural 4 if he doesn't put on weight.

Allen is skinny too lol its not like we have a guy at 5 with a Jokic, Embiid, or Vuc build.

And yet, Allen is 28lbs heavier than Evan while Embiid is 37lbs heavier than Allen.

What we get In return, are a couple of mobile rim protecting bigs who can defend out to the 3pt line and move their feet which is pretty rare capability I'm hoping both retain as they get older.

And often things aren't dictated by what we prefer, but by what the player prefers. I believe Anthony Davis was able to put on weight faster than Evan and even as he's climbed up to 253lbs he's always insisted he didn't want to play C.

AD always gets hurt though, so it makes sense he doesn't want to play 5.