How the NBA got into business with an African dictator

[dTox]

Yikes, the hypocrisy and hypocritical bigotry in some of the comments in this thread lol. It's funny how the comments can easily be switched the other way.

We're in 2024 and we still have to deal with psychopaths like Putin, Kim, Netanyahu and potentially Trump again, so I guess that shouldn't be surprising. The West has also done a great job of supporting those who fund them so it's not surprising we have people with such divided and uneducated views.

This thread really just tells us that money runs everything. Well, I also learned that the powerful Israel military funded by what has been the biggest powerhouse is also waiting with open arms to sing kumbaya with the barbaric Palestinian people.

Just checked under the couch to make sure the Israel supported Hamas isn't hiding there (should be safe from outlawed inhumane bombs), and now I'm back to basketball.

Lumping Netanyahu and Trump with Putin and Kim is so incredibly careless of you. The latter two are authoritarians who brutally repress dissent and do all kinds of horrible things to their own people. Where do you even come up with these crazy takes man?

Netanyahu is far worse than all of em. His genocidal activities and war crimes have been recorded. This maneuvering of trying to water that down will only work on those who are paid by AIPAC in congress or are completely clueless on what's happening down there, but not the people who have been watching this get documented in video on a daily basis.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using RealGM mobile app

[dagger]

Trying to keep this on Rwanda... Masai has tunnel vision to advance Africa and the lives of Africans, and to advance basketball as a means of doing it. It would be great if he only did so by allying with peaceful democratic leaders, but he'd probably die of old age waiting for enough of those to emerge. He's impatient. The same impulse that made him gamble on the Kawhi trade, is the impulse that says there is huge potential in Africa, and I'm not prepared to wait forever for perfect situations to emerge. So he is no saint, but no devil either. From the business perspective, he doesn't appear to be doing anything illegal or corrupt. I did take from the article that he might be ready to move on from the Raptors when his contract is up, not because it says so explicitly, but it looks like he has a lot on his plate in Africa, and the potential for a lot more.

[dagger]

Yikes, the hypocrisy and hypocritical bigotry in some of the comments in this thread lol. It's funny how the comments can easily be switched the other way.

We're in 2024 and we still have to deal with psychopaths like Putin, Kim, Netanyahu and potentially Trump again, so I guess that shouldn't be surprising. The West has also done a great job of supporting those who fund them so it's not surprising we have people with such divided and uneducated views.

This thread really just tells us that money runs everything. Well, I also learned that the powerful Israel military funded by what has been the biggest powerhouse is also waiting with open arms to sing kumbaya with the barbaric Palestinian people.

Just checked under the couch to make sure the Israel supported Hamas isn't hiding there (should be safe from outlawed inhumane bombs), and now I'm back to basketball.

Lumping Netanyahu and Trump with Putin and Kim is so incredibly careless of you. The latter two are authoritarians who brutally repress dissent and do all kinds of horrible things to their own people. Where do you even come up with these crazy takes man?

Netanyahu is far worse than all of em. All of Netanyahu's genocidal activities and war crimes have been recorded. This maneuvering of trying to water that down will only work on those who are paid by AIPAC in congress, but not the free people who have been watching this get documented in video on a daily basis.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using RealGM mobile app

I'd say these guys, along with Maduro in Venezuela, Assad in Syria, etc etc are all bad. You donl;t have to grade them, they are getting away with as much murder and repression as they can get away with. Give them more latitude, they'd kill more people. Also the Iranian regime and its tools like Nasrallah and Sinwar. The world is full of evil. It's also full of good. But right now, evil is screaming louder and commanding more attention (thanks social media!). The challenge is to find peacemakers in conflict zones, as Northern Ireland eventually found. I know that sounds Utopian, but it is the one path forward - all the others just circle back to the same old bullish*t.

[2019nbachamps]

How is Masai allowed to operate a company over there? Isn’t it a conflict of interest?

What would the conflict be?

A few:

1. He's an employee of MLSE. Running other companies would be a distraction

2. His NBA Africa activities aim to promote development in the continent. They're also meant to help the Raptors scout talent. Him profiting from business activities may undermine these objectives.

I'm not saying Masai is doing anything improper. I am 100% sure he cleared all this with MLSE. I am just raising this question out loud since it is new information he has business interests over there. I am curious if him setting up businesses is just a formality to get his development work done over there or if the businesses are setup for him to make money.

[Clay Davis]

How is Masai allowed to operate a company over there? Isn’t it a conflict of interest?

What would the conflict be?

A few:

1. He's an employee of MLSE. Running other companies would be a distraction

2. His NBA Africa activities aim to promote development in the continent. They're also meant to help the Raptors scout talent. Him profiting from business activities may undermine these objectives.

I'm not saying Masai is doing anything improper. I am 100% sure he cleared all this with MLSE. I am just raising this question out loud since it is new information he has business interests over there. I am curious if him setting up businesses is just a formality to get his development work done over there or if the businesses are setup for him to make money.

So I imagine it's the former -- that is, he uses his rizz as a formality to get development work done. From what I understand of Masai as a leader is that he's very hands-off -- he avoids micromanaging, delegates well, and focuses on relationships as opposed to details. I imagine him at the helm is what allows the NBA to feel confident that the money is going to the right places and not being embezzled... why would Masai need to embezzle? He has a lot of money from his gig with Toronto. Thus the NBA doesn't need to worry about a few hundred thousand going missing and ending up in some off-shore Swiss account, as it may with someone who makes a tenth of what Masai makes (which is most executives lol). Also, they're probably grooming him (or whoever he points to as a successor) to be the eventual face of an actual African NBA league. I actually wonder whether we'll get the following soon:

NBA franchises in Africa (NBA-Africa) and China (NBA-China) that form their own professional league, with inter-national tournament play eventually happening in lieu of the NBA's in-season tournament this would be really awesome for multiple reasons... but the talent needs to grow first lol. I mean, even watching a tournament with G-League teams, NBA-Africa teams, and NBA-China teams would be awesome.

[Prestige]

As the NBA grows and starts to reach new countries and regions, there’ll be more and more controversy, simply because most of the world has different political systems and cultures which most Westerners are insulated from. No matter what country the NBA reaches out to, the Twitter mob will find something and there’ll be a full court press in the media declaring the NBA as evil because they got into bed with this person or that country all for money.

The world is shades of grey. While I don’t condone evil dictators and countries that commit genocide, how can Americans feign outrage when their own country has perpetrated some of the worst atrocities and wars and still maintain a global military killing machine? Is the NBA only allowed to do business with Western countries that share a common culture? Are they to not attempt to grow the game in third world countries which we all know aren’t perfect?

[ATLTimekeeper]

How is Masai allowed to operate a company over there? Isn’t it a conflict of interest?

What would the conflict be?

A few:

1. He's an employee of MLSE. Running other companies would be a distraction

2. His NBA Africa activities aim to promote development in the continent. They're also meant to help the Raptors scout talent. Him profiting from business activities may undermine these objectives.

I'm not saying Masai is doing anything improper. I am 100% sure he cleared all this with MLSE. I am just raising this question out loud since it is new information he has business interests over there. I am curious if him setting up businesses is just a formality to get his development work done over there or if the businesses are setup for him to make money.

1. That might be a conflict of his available time, but not interest. Maybe he's just a silent partner?

2. I don't see how developing a complex with a hotel, gym and podcast studio would undermine those objectives. Maybe you have a clearer idea of what you mean. It looks to me like he wants to be Larry Tanenbaum in Rwanda. He is promoting development in the continent by developing in a country. Maybe he wants to use Kigali as a flagship for how it can work across the BAL. That sort of sounds like what he wants. As for scouting talent, Masai isn't the scout of the Raptors.

[Johnny Bball]

I have a picture with the current ruling despot of Bangladesh. I see it as an interesting moment in my life, and I don't think showing the picture is me testifying to her rizz and endorsing her brutal repression of student protests (among other incidents).

I haven't read the article but sometimes you have to work with people who do terrible things. It's a responsibility, really. This is why I never felt that Rodman deserves vitriol.

I have a similar photo with Mike Harris. Which some might call worse

I wouldn't put much effort into arguing with what amounts to unarmed opponents here btw. I don't disagree with you though.

[Clay Davis]

I have a picture with the current ruling despot of Bangladesh. I see it as an interesting moment in my life, and I don't think showing the picture is me testifying to her rizz and endorsing her brutal repression of student protests (among other incidents).

I haven't read the article but sometimes you have to work with people who do terrible things. It's a responsibility, really. This is why I never felt that Rodman deserves vitriol.

I have a similar photo with Mike Harris. Which some might call worse

I would put much effort into arguing with what amounts to unarmed opponents here btw. I don't disagree with you though.

Omg so it's your fault I have to pay a toll every time I use the 407 you and your Swedish cronies have de-rizzed the people of Ontario and I will never forgive you and I will have my revengeance.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Yikes, the hypocrisy and hypocritical bigotry in some of the comments in this thread lol. It's funny how the comments can easily be switched the other way.

We're in 2024 and we still have to deal with psychopaths like Putin, Kim, Netanyahu and potentially Trump again, so I guess that shouldn't be surprising. The West has also done a great job of supporting those who fund them so it's not surprising we have people with such divided and uneducated views.

This thread really just tells us that money runs everything. Well, I also learned that the powerful Israel military funded by what has been the biggest powerhouse is also waiting with open arms to sing kumbaya with the barbaric Palestinian people.

Just checked under the couch to make sure the Israel supported Hamas isn't hiding there (should be safe from outlawed inhumane bombs), and now I'm back to basketball.

Lumping Netanyahu and Trump with Putin and Kim is so incredibly careless of you. The latter two are authoritarians who brutally repress dissent and do all kinds of horrible things to their own people. Where do you even come up with these crazy takes man?

Netanyahu is far worse than all of em. His genocidal activities and war crimes have been recorded. This maneuvering of trying to water that down will only work on those who are paid by AIPAC in congress or are completely clueless on what's happening down there, but not the people who have been watching this get documented in video on a daily basis.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using RealGM mobile app

You think war itself is a war crime, therein lies the problem.

There, there



"U cAn'T BoMb CiViLiAnS BRo!! LeT hAmAs ConTinUE 2 F1re RockETS aT U 4EVER aNd CoMMiT tErrOr ATtacKS iNdEfInItElY!! Ur N0T aLLoWeD 2 DeSTroY ThEIR TeRRoR inFrAsTrUcture!! iF U dOn'T LikE iT g0 b4CK 2 P0LAND u CoLoNiZEr!!! Y DoN'T U USe DiPLoMACY LiKe H4M4S?!?!"

[Tha Cynic]

Lumping Netanyahu and Trump with Putin and Kim is so incredibly careless of you. The latter two are authoritarians who brutally repress dissent and do all kinds of horrible things to their own people. Where do you even come up with these crazy takes man?

Netanyahu is far worse than all of em. His genocidal activities and war crimes have been recorded. This maneuvering of trying to water that down will only work on those who are paid by AIPAC in congress or are completely clueless on what's happening down there, but not the people who have been watching this get documented in video on a daily basis.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using RealGM mobile app

You think war itself is a war crime, therein lies the problem.

There, there



"U cAn'T BoMb CiViLiAnS BRo!! LeT hAmAs ConTinUE 2 F1re RockETS aT U 4EVER aNd CoMMiT tErrOr ATtacKS iNdEfInItElY!! Ur N0T aLLoWeD 2 DeSTroY ThEIR TeRRoR inFrAsTrUcture!! iF U dOn'T LikE iT g0 b4CK 2 P0LAND u CoLoNiZEr!!! Y DoN'T U USe DiPLoMACY LiKe H4M4S?!?!"

The strong and the more aggressive prey on the weak. That's how the world has always operated and that's how it will continue to operate.

Now when those who prey pretend to be some sort of role models on some higher cause that's where you laugh and wonder how stupid those countries think people are. Most of the world now can see what Netanyahu is doing is barbaric and inhumane. But Israel has the military force to overwhelm the people they have been putting under surveillance and occupying. This was never a war. It was a simple massacre on civilians.

North America was built on killing, pillaging and overthrowing. The most powerful nation for a while has been USA and they have given that power to Israel to carry out their own aggression. It's just how the world works. Israel is simple showing it's another Russia but backed by the biggest military. This is not a war. That would imply that the other side can actually fight back. They're simply and indiscriminately dropping bombs on civilians, telling people to go to certain safe zone and then attacking those places too. If you're proud of them having a powerful military, then be proud of that. There's nothing wrong with it. They want land and they're taking it.

Personally, I don't understand the way the world works and think everyone should just get along and not be greedy. So I will continue to feel for those who are killed unnecessarily in these political games. It's too bad even in 2024 we have people like Netanyahu, Putin and others running countries. It is also interesting that this cycle of these governments building up certain groups as political figures turned into terrorists has now happened a couple of times and given them the excuses to go in and kill Innocent civilians for oil and now land greed. There must be a book written about this.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Netanyahu is far worse than all of em. His genocidal activities and war crimes have been recorded. This maneuvering of trying to water that down will only work on those who are paid by AIPAC in congress or are completely clueless on what's happening down there, but not the people who have been watching this get documented in video on a daily basis.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using RealGM mobile app

You think war itself is a war crime, therein lies the problem.

There, there



"U cAn'T BoMb CiViLiAnS BRo!! LeT hAmAs ConTinUE 2 F1re RockETS aT U 4EVER aNd CoMMiT tErrOr ATtacKS iNdEfInItElY!! Ur N0T aLLoWeD 2 DeSTroY ThEIR TeRRoR inFrAsTrUcture!! iF U dOn'T LikE iT g0 b4CK 2 P0LAND u CoLoNiZEr!!! Y DoN'T U USe DiPLoMACY LiKe H4M4S?!?!"

The strong and the more aggressive prey on the weak. That's how the world has always operated and that's how it will continue to operate.

Now when those who prey pretend to be some sort of role models on some higher cause that's where you laugh and wonder how stupid those countries think people are. Most of the world now can see what Netanyahu is doing is barbaric and inhumane. But Israel has the military force to overwhelm the people they have been putting under surveillance and occupying. This was never a war. It was a simple massacre on civilians.

North America was built on killing, pillaging and overthrowing. The most powerful nation for a while has been USA and they have given that power to Israel to carry out their own aggression. It's just how the world works. Israel is simple showing it's another Russia but backed by the biggest military. This is not a war. That would imply that the other side can actually fight back. They're simply and indiscriminately dropping bombs on civilians, telling people to go to certain safe zone and then attacking those places too. If you're proud of them having a powerful military, then be proud of that. There's nothing wrong with it. They want land and they're taking it.

Personally, I don't understand the way the world works and think everyone should just get along and not be greedy. So I will continue to feel for those who are killed unnecessarily in these political games. It's too bad even in 2024 we have people like Netanyahu, Putin and others running countries. It is also interesting that this cycle of these governments building up certain groups as political figures turned into terrorists has now happened a couple of times and given them the excuses to go in and kill Innocent civilians for oil and now land greed. There must be a book written about this.

Can you prove the IDF indiscriminately targets civilians with actual evidence of a multitude of events clearly showing a pattern of intent to kill for the lone sake of taking innocent civilian lives out of complete genocidal bloodlust or are you just talking straight out of your ass? Waiting for the proof from an unbiased source.

You just fundamentally have zero understanding of the conflict. Saying **** like "they're being surveilled" and bringing it up as if it's inappropriate or immoral speaks volumes as to your lack of understanding. Surveillance and checkpoints were brought about by their own actions - waves of suicide bombers, constant rocket barriages, various plots to murder and terrorize, etc... The tens of thousands of rockets and incendiary devices fired into Israel would have killed so many more if it weren't for their air defense systems and bomb shelters. You want to talk about indiscriminate killing? It's all that Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other extremist organizations know.

If the Gazans want their safe zones to be safe they should revolt against and lynch the Hamas rats that follow them into those zones and compromise their safety. Calling this a land grab is also absolutely ridiculous, let me know what part of Gaza Israel annexes when this war ends. The only thing that may occur is a bigger buffer zone - this is what happens with further erosion of trust and security - just like the surveillance and checkpoints due to terrorist activity (which didn't always exist). It's no different than you getting checked by canadian border services or the TSA at an airport and treated as a potential criminal every time you get on and off of a plane entering a new sovereign territory.

[Clay Davis]

Lumping Netanyahu and Trump with Putin and Kim is so incredibly careless of you. The latter two are authoritarians who brutally repress dissent and do all kinds of horrible things to their own people. Where do you even come up with these crazy takes man?

Netanyahu is far worse than all of em. His genocidal activities and war crimes have been recorded. This maneuvering of trying to water that down will only work on those who are paid by AIPAC in congress or are completely clueless on what's happening down there, but not the people who have been watching this get documented in video on a daily basis.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using RealGM mobile app

You think war itself is a war crime, therein lies the problem.

There, there



"U cAn'T BoMb CiViLiAnS BRo!! LeT hAmAs ConTinUE 2 F1re RockETS aT U 4EVER aNd CoMMiT tErrOr ATtacKS iNdEfInItElY!! Ur N0T aLLoWeD 2 DeSTroY ThEIR TeRRoR inFrAsTrUcture!! iF U dOn'T LikE iT g0 b4CK 2 P0LAND u CoLoNiZEr!!! Y DoN'T U USe DiPLoMACY LiKe H4M4S?!?!"

Do you think we'll ever see players drafted from the Basketball Africa League and become high-rizz prospects like we see with the Euroleague?

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I think the Palestinians would be more than happy to "accept defeat" if it meant the return of the lands that they lost.

You're operating under the false narrative that pre-1948 Palestine was a beautiful utopia where Jews and Arabs got along and everything was just lovely and the evil Jews engaged in a conspiracy to annihilate the Arabs and build the 3rd temple over Al-Aqsa. This is the bigoted thinking that aroused violence in the Arab population and led to insane hostility between both peoples and which was weaponized by Amin Al-Husseini who helped push the British to deny entry to countless Jews in the 1930's who ended up being sent to gas chambers in WW2.

Many Arabs (those who call themselves Palestinians for indeed there are 2.1 million Arab Israelis whose parents/grandparents did not for one reason or another end up outside the proposed Israeli borders during the first war) lost land in a civil war. The narrative they were all forcibly expelled is false (although a substantial number were) and irrelevant, it was a civil war - these things happen and wouldn't have happened had they not declared a war of annihilation on Israel. Why don't they build better lives for themselves (with the billions of dollars of international aid money they receive which lines the pockets of their leaders and buys weaponry to further engage in violence) like the millions of European Jews who lost their houses and land due to a war and started new lives around the world with absolutely nothing. The same fate was suffered by Arab Jews who were expelled from Arab nations as well and started over with nothing.

Palestinians are weaponized to hate and destroy Israel. There is no "return of land they lost" as it would amount to an act of self-harm or self-destruction since they pose a gigantic security risk. The idea of going back to one state, two state, it's far too late for any of it. If you want to waste your time fantasizing about Palestinians educating their children to not hate Jews and embrace democratic values putting secularism and the laws of the state over Islam so that they are no longer a security threat and the climate being right to give them statehood you can do that all day man, it won't happen and is just a leftist pipe dream.

also the equivalence between germany and palestinians being humiliated - germany wasn't receiving billions of dollars of international aid money and endless willingness from the international community to help strengthen their nation. if palestinians were serious about nation-building they could build regions which provide their citizens with some of the highest quality of living in the arab world (even though palestinians have some of the best educational institutes, hospitals and life expectancies in the arab world already under "occupation" but we don't talk about that right).

If you want a proper education DM me Clay, you clearly learned about middle eastern history from TikTok and Al Jazeera.

No, I don't need to DM you. If you have the rizz to address me publicly you can speak with me here. When the mods inevitably halt this discussion it'll be the end of it. Until then, please feel free to post whatever resources you'd like here.

The narrative they were all forcibly expelled is false (although a substantial number were) and irrelevant, it was a civil war - these things happen and wouldn't have happened had they not declared a war of annihilation on Israel.

But numerous countries, in recent years, have had civil wars that were resolved without extricating one population from its land, drastically shrinking the territory that they inhabited. I think I (as well as millions of Canadians) would be surprised if, in some far-off scenario, Quebecois separatists were to become militarily powerful, threaten to annex lands of New Brunswick/Ontario, and then inevitably lose and have a significant portion of territory transfer from Quebecois to Ontarian/New Brunswicker control. To take another example Serbia's territory did not change as significantly between 1990 and 2015 as Palestinian territory did after 1948. Italy, Germany, and Japan had lost expansionist wars but did not have their territory reduced as significantly as Palestinians have. You say it's because Italy, Germany, and Japan responded differently to a war they lost... very well, but when Palestinians argue for the same right it's not even considered by Israeli negotiators . I suppose I am just to ignore statements by Israeli luminaries of the past and present which state nothing but a wholesale desire for the land to be Israeli. Ben Gurion, in 1938 wrote:

Does the establishment of a Jewish state [in only part of Palestine] advance or (Please Use More Appropriate Word) the conversion of this country into a Jewish country? My assumption (which is why I am a fervent proponent of a state, even though it is now linked to partition) is that a Jewish state on only part of the land is not the end but the beginning.... This is because this increase in possession is of consequence not only in itself, but because through it we increase our strength, and every increase in strength helps in the possession of the land as a whole.

The 1977 charter of Likud (Netanyahu's party) reads:

[B]etween the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.

On January 1, 2024 Itamar Ben Gvir said:

[The war with Hamas presents] an opportunity to concentrate on encouraging the migration of the residents of Gaza.

(somehow I think he has similar views regarding the West Bank lol).

When such individuals as the above enjoy such prominence in both Israeli textbooks and the political sphere, should an unbiased observer consider them to really have no expansionist desires? To think that they do not and have not coveted the land for themselves???


On another note, I am not sure how you are arguing two things at once: Palestinians are teaching their people to hate, they have some of the best educational institutions, hospitals, and life expectancies in the Arab world, but are also teaching their kids nothing but how to hate Jews. So you use their prowess to say they are not under occupation but then say that they wholly subscribe to thinking that'd make the Taliban blush .

Love how you and every other SJW quote a pre-1948 Israeli historical figure like Ben Gurion but never bring up Amin Al-Husseini. Just dead silence, only talking about the side of the narrative you have been inundated with by leftist media that takes its orders from the Ayatollah of Iran and Vladimir Putin. Even the constant quoting of Ben Gvir is a joke, his ideas represent that of a fringe minority of citizens and he's quoted by many as if he's the only politician in the entire country, just like the "Deir Yassin Massacre" is used by many as if it should delegitimize the statehood of Israel and as if Arabs didn't go and massacre Jews multiple times prior to that.

Watch on YouTube

Watch that so you get a better idea of who the Gazans really are. The people in that video are the ones telling Amnesty International's "investigators" that there is "no Hamas presence" in areas the IDF has targeted which leads them to conclude Israel is "indiscriminately targeting civilians". They're also the ones who don't care about putting their innocent and yet to be fully radicalized children in harms way. The amount of UN agency workers and Al-Jazeera contributors who are Hamas members and participate in terrorist activities is widely known (if you care to open your eyes to it).

You operate under the assumption Israel should be giving the Palestinians (not a real nation BTW although it could have been just like Jordan) some kind of sovereignty. They had a chance at sovereignty (at least those who would have wanted to live under Islamic rule) and lost it and have done nothing to warrant it since. Checkpoints and other things which oppress them exist because of the lovely characters in the above video who permeate their entire society. Again, the only politician of theirs who was actually interested in nation building received 2% of the vote in an election. Why do extremist Islamist groups always seize power in these countries? What is the history and track record of individual freedoms and democracy in Islamic countries? If you answer these questions properly you should be disgusted with yourself for wanting to give political power to such people. If they demonstrate they are capable of putting the state and individual freedom before religion (such as atheist Herzl and the huge number of atheists who founded Israel and the atheists and moderates who currently live in it) then maybe one day that can change. Don't bet on it.

[Clay Davis]

You're operating under the false narrative that pre-1948 Palestine was a beautiful utopia where Jews and Arabs got along and everything was just lovely and the evil Jews engaged in a conspiracy to annihilate the Arabs and build the 3rd temple over Al-Aqsa. This is the bigoted thinking that aroused violence in the Arab population and led to insane hostility between both peoples and which was weaponized by Amin Al-Husseini who helped push the British to deny entry to countless Jews in the 1930's who ended up being sent to gas chambers in WW2.

Many Arabs (those who call themselves Palestinians for indeed there are 2.1 million Arab Israelis whose parents/grandparents did not for one reason or another end up outside the proposed Israeli borders during the first war) lost land in a civil war. The narrative they were all forcibly expelled is false (although a substantial number were) and irrelevant, it was a civil war - these things happen and wouldn't have happened had they not declared a war of annihilation on Israel. Why don't they build better lives for themselves (with the billions of dollars of international aid money they receive which lines the pockets of their leaders and buys weaponry to further engage in violence) like the millions of European Jews who lost their houses and land due to a war and started new lives around the world with absolutely nothing. The same fate was suffered by Arab Jews who were expelled from Arab nations as well and started over with nothing.

Palestinians are weaponized to hate and destroy Israel. There is no "return of land they lost" as it would amount to an act of self-harm or self-destruction since they pose a gigantic security risk. The idea of going back to one state, two state, it's far too late for any of it. If you want to waste your time fantasizing about Palestinians educating their children to not hate Jews and embrace democratic values putting secularism and the laws of the state over Islam so that they are no longer a security threat and the climate being right to give them statehood you can do that all day man, it won't happen and is just a leftist pipe dream.

also the equivalence between germany and palestinians being humiliated - germany wasn't receiving billions of dollars of international aid money and endless willingness from the international community to help strengthen their nation. if palestinians were serious about nation-building they could build regions which provide their citizens with some of the highest quality of living in the arab world (even though palestinians have some of the best educational institutes, hospitals and life expectancies in the arab world already under "occupation" but we don't talk about that right).

If you want a proper education DM me Clay, you clearly learned about middle eastern history from TikTok and Al Jazeera.

No, I don't need to DM you. If you have the rizz to address me publicly you can speak with me here. When the mods inevitably halt this discussion it'll be the end of it. Until then, please feel free to post whatever resources you'd like here.

The narrative they were all forcibly expelled is false (although a substantial number were) and irrelevant, it was a civil war - these things happen and wouldn't have happened had they not declared a war of annihilation on Israel.

But numerous countries, in recent years, have had civil wars that were resolved without extricating one population from its land, drastically shrinking the territory that they inhabited. I think I (as well as millions of Canadians) would be surprised if, in some far-off scenario, Quebecois separatists were to become militarily powerful, threaten to annex lands of New Brunswick/Ontario, and then inevitably lose and have a significant portion of territory transfer from Quebecois to Ontarian/New Brunswicker control. To take another example Serbia's territory did not change as significantly between 1990 and 2015 as Palestinian territory did after 1948. Italy, Germany, and Japan had lost expansionist wars but did not have their territory reduced as significantly as Palestinians have. You say it's because Italy, Germany, and Japan responded differently to a war they lost... very well, but when Palestinians argue for the same right it's not even considered by Israeli negotiators . I suppose I am just to ignore statements by Israeli luminaries of the past and present which state nothing but a wholesale desire for the land to be Israeli. Ben Gurion, in 1938 wrote:

Does the establishment of a Jewish state [in only part of Palestine] advance or (Please Use More Appropriate Word) the conversion of this country into a Jewish country? My assumption (which is why I am a fervent proponent of a state, even though it is now linked to partition) is that a Jewish state on only part of the land is not the end but the beginning.... This is because this increase in possession is of consequence not only in itself, but because through it we increase our strength, and every increase in strength helps in the possession of the land as a whole.

The 1977 charter of Likud (Netanyahu's party) reads:

[B]etween the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.

On January 1, 2024 Itamar Ben Gvir said:

[The war with Hamas presents] an opportunity to concentrate on encouraging the migration of the residents of Gaza.

(somehow I think he has similar views regarding the West Bank lol).

When such individuals as the above enjoy such prominence in both Israeli textbooks and the political sphere, should an unbiased observer consider them to really have no expansionist desires? To think that they do not and have not coveted the land for themselves???


On another note, I am not sure how you are arguing two things at once: Palestinians are teaching their people to hate, they have some of the best educational institutions, hospitals, and life expectancies in the Arab world, but are also teaching their kids nothing but how to hate Jews. So you use their prowess to say they are not under occupation but then say that they wholly subscribe to thinking that'd make the Taliban blush .

Love how you and every other SJW quote a pre-1948 Israeli historical figure like Ben Gurion but never bring up Amin Al-Husseini. Just dead silence, only talking about the side of the narrative you have been inundated with by leftist media that takes its orders from the Ayatollah of Iran and Vladimir Putin. Even the constant quoting of Ben Gvir is a joke, his ideas represent that of a fringe minority of citizens and he's quoted by many as if he's the only politician in the entire country, just like the "Deir Yassin Massacre" is used by many as if it should delegitimize the statehood of Israel and as if Arabs didn't go and massacre Jews multiple times prior to that.

Watch on YouTube

Watch that so you get a better idea of who the Gazans really are. The people in that video are the ones telling Amnesty International's "investigators" that there is "no Hamas presence" in areas the IDF has targeted which leads them to conclude Israel is "indiscriminately targeting civilians". They're also the ones who don't care about putting their innocent and yet to be fully radicalized children in harms way. The amount of UN agency workers and Al-Jazeera contributors who are Hamas members and participate in terrorist activities is widely known (if you care to open your eyes to it).

You operate under the assumption Israel should be giving the Palestinians (not a real nation BTW although it could have been just like Jordan) some kind of sovereignty. They had a chance at sovereignty (at least those who would have wanted to live under Islamic rule) and lost it and have done nothing to warrant it since. Checkpoints and other things which oppress them exist because of the lovely characters in the above video who permeate their entire society. Again, the only politician of theirs who was actually interested in nation building received 2% of the vote in an election. Why do extremist Islamist groups always seize power in these countries? What is the history and track record of individual freedoms and democracy in Islamic countries? If you answer these questions properly you should be disgusted with yourself for wanting to give political power to such people. If they demonstrate they are capable of putting the state and individual freedom before religion (such as atheist Herzl and the huge number of atheists who founded Israel and the atheists and moderates who currently live in it) then maybe one day that can change. Don't bet on it.

Hey man thanks for having the rizz to respond to me on this topic. You've raised some great points. What do you think the future of basketball development is in Africa? A lot of people think it has comparable talent to many European countries personally I don't see any reason to disagree with that. I do wonder how much the idea of the talent simply not having the opportunities really stands up; the way some people talk about Africa, you'd think that Joel Embiid's are a dime a dozen.

[deeps6x]

The tldr is, a guy named "Silver" negotiated with a despot to have Africans work for him in exchange for money.

How much money?