The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2

[PhxLax]

So my understanding is once Liddell is waived, they are done. But I would go one final step and attempt to trade Little to a team that can absorb him (saves you a lot of money with tax BTW) even if u gotta toss a 2nd round pick. Once Liddell and Little are gone, snag up a proven Power Forward like *Marcus Morris or *Covington and finish out this roster. Unfortunately Booker is your starting SF as he is in team USA.

C - Nurkic Plumlee Ighodaro
F - Durant Bol Morris*
F - Booker O'Neal Dunn
G - Beal Allen Lee
G - Jones Morris Okogie

Yes I know Okogie not a point guard but nowhere else to place him at this point. He's totally redundant and not happy he's back. But whatever

[sunskerr]

Well someone mentioned WCJ, if possible that's a great move too. How to get him would be the key. I guess the dream for all of us is Beal, but that won't happen. I think an alternative would be Beal coming off the bench for us which in turn makes Grayson available. Him for WCJ? Magic do need shooting. Then trade Nurk for picks.

As to Achiuwa, I think in both Toronto and this Knicks team, they played better defense then the Suns with Nurk. As the backup big, he was part of that for both squads. Personally I think he can handle a starting spot and could step into Nurk's job. Now we don't know if he can play Bud's style in particular but we also don't know if Nurk can. I would prefer to error on the side of youth and athleticism and the cheaper player. To say nothing of the picks Nurk could get us

Problem is this late in the season, there's just not as many teams that need C yet. All of this would have to wait till the smoke clears a bit.

WCJ definitely an underrated player. Love to get him. But if Beal is coming off the bench (as he should...but it won't happen) then I still like Grayson starting since he was a great defensive guy raining down 45% of his threes. Wow. But yeah if we can pry WCJ away from the Magic and we a trade lined up to move Nurkic for a wing piece then sure. Grayson might be more valuable than WCJ at this point though (in a vacuum).

As for Precious, Knicks and Raptors are probably just better defensively as a team with the players they have. Nurk is like over +2.0 DEPM which whilst of course thats not as accurate as OEPM, its probably the most reasonable defensive stat given that it does actually place a lot of well-known defensive guys pretty high (Nurkic also doesn't get a lot of steals or blocks. And D-Lebron likes him defensively too). And of course Thibs is a center whisperer (though Isaiah Hartenstein is legit and has been for years now as us fantasy players have known).

But yeah that 6'9" stature of Achiuwa is tough to stomach if we're talking full-time center.

I'm for Achiuwa and some people might recall I've liked him for a while. But the best scenario is to have Nurkic start, with Achiuwa off the bench, and Plumlee as 3rd string. With Nurk's performance last year there isn't really any need to jettison him, especially not for 2nds like you suggested. That's a big step back. I don't trust Plumlee at all at this point - he's a Javale McGee kind of end of career center. Guy with a pulse. There's a reason we got him for the minimum. If we're trotting out Achiuwa+Plumlee imo that's arguably the worst center rotation in the league. But if we're talking Nurkic+Achiuwa that's actually really solid and gives you two different looks and all you have to do is adjust minutes depending on the matchups.

But this is all pipe dream stuff. Best we can do is offer Precious the minimum with a player option as injury insurance. Knicks can give him more money.

Could've had Jalen Smith backing up Nurkic but we know Jones loves giving away players for free. Also Torrey Craig was never a good player. Not when we traded for him and not when we had our best years and I will die on that hill. Anyway, random rant but we're probably not having this discussion if Jones doesn't make that move

[Mulhollanddrive]

I think Budenholzer will bench Beal from the start as he's a system coach and knows it'll be harder to demote him mid season (worst case scenario he waives his no trade clause so win win).

Who is defending Doncic, Edwards, Zion, LeBron if not O'Neale?

We overloaded Booker and Durant with duties last season it wouldn't make sense to now get them PG help but make them defend stars for 30 minutes.

[lilfishi22]

So my understanding is once Liddell is waived, they are done. But I would go one final step and attempt to trade Little to a team that can absorb him (saves you a lot of money with tax BTW) even if u gotta toss a 2nd round pick. Once Liddell and Little are gone, snag up a proven Power Forward like *Marcus Morris or *Covington and finish out this roster. Unfortunately Booker is your starting SF as he is in team USA.

C - Nurkic Plumlee Ighodaro
F - Durant Bol Morris*
F - Booker O'Neal Dunn
G - Beal Allen Lee
G - Jones Morris Okogie

Yes I know Okogie not a point guard but nowhere else to place him at this point. He's totally redundant and not happy he's back. But whatever

Similar to us dropping Roddy via Liddell when the opportunity to bring on Jones came around, IF the opportunity comes around for another contributor to be signed/traded for, we won't have any issues making the space. What we don't need to do is move Little pre-emptively to make that space because of the obvious costs to get that kind of deal done.

Might be wrong but I recall a report that came out saying Little basically had no market so it's not like we haven't tried moving him. But right now, there is no urgency to incentivise teams to take him on yet

Okogie is a going to be a utility player who will be put in spot minutes from SG to PF.

[Slim Charless]

I think Budenholzer will bench Beal from the start as he's a system coach and knows it'll be harder to demote him mid season (worst case scenario he waives his no trade clause so win win).

Who is defending Doncic, Edwards, Zion, LeBron if not O'Neale?

We overloaded Booker and Durant with duties last season it wouldn't make sense to now get them PG help but make them defend stars for 30 minutes.

I think Beal starts as it's tough to just bench a guy like him off the bat if he's healthy. That last part is the key.......

WHEN Beal has his next injury, then that gives Bud the freedom to put Booker back at SG and then put someone else at SF or PF if they move Durant there. I like-as I've mentioned numerous times, Dunn at the SF spot for his defense and hustle. That doesn't eliminate other guys though. Grayson makes sense for shooting or maybe some other dude.

Then whoever that guy is, if he kills it then that'll be our new starting 5 going forward. Beal then comes off the bench as a Super 6 man.

[Mulhollanddrive]

That's possible too lots of mix and match over 6 months.

I just think if you have 1 specialist defender playing 15-20 minutes (ONeale) it should be against the best player (Doncic, Zion, Edwards, Tatum etc) otherwise he's defending a 6th/7th man off the bench which defeats the purpose of his role.

[Slim Charless]

Well someone mentioned WCJ, if possible that's a great move too. How to get him would be the key. I guess the dream for all of us is Beal, but that won't happen. I think an alternative would be Beal coming off the bench for us which in turn makes Grayson available. Him for WCJ? Magic do need shooting. Then trade Nurk for picks.

As to Achiuwa, I think in both Toronto and this Knicks team, they played better defense then the Suns with Nurk. As the backup big, he was part of that for both squads. Personally I think he can handle a starting spot and could step into Nurk's job. Now we don't know if he can play Bud's style in particular but we also don't know if Nurk can. I would prefer to error on the side of youth and athleticism and the cheaper player. To say nothing of the picks Nurk could get us

Problem is this late in the season, there's just not as many teams that need C yet. All of this would have to wait till the smoke clears a bit.

WCJ definitely an underrated player. Love to get him. But if Beal is coming off the bench (as he should...but it won't happen) then I still like Grayson starting since he was a great defensive guy raining down 45% of his threes. Wow. But yeah if we can pry WCJ away from the Magic and we a trade lined up to move Nurkic for a wing piece then sure. Grayson might be more valuable than WCJ at this point though (in a vacuum).

As for Precious, Knicks and Raptors are probably just better defensively as a team with the players they have. Nurk is like over +2.0 DEPM which whilst of course thats not as accurate as OEPM, its probably the most reasonable defensive stat given that it does actually place a lot of well-known defensive guys pretty high (Nurkic also doesn't get a lot of steals or blocks. And D-Lebron likes him defensively too). And of course Thibs is a center whisperer (though Isaiah Hartenstein is legit and has been for years now as us fantasy players have known).

But yeah that 6'9" stature of Achiuwa is tough to stomach if we're talking full-time center.

I'm for Achiuwa and some people might recall I've liked him for a while. But the best scenario is to have Nurkic start, with Achiuwa off the bench, and Plumlee as 3rd string. With Nurk's performance last year there isn't really any need to jettison him, especially not for 2nds like you suggested. That's a big step back. I don't trust Plumlee at all at this point - he's a Javale McGee kind of end of career center. Guy with a pulse. There's a reason we got him for the minimum. If we're trotting out Achiuwa+Plumlee imo that's arguably the worst center rotation in the league. But if we're talking Nurkic+Achiuwa that's actually really solid and gives you two different looks and all you have to do is adjust minutes depending on the matchups.

But this is all pipe dream stuff. Best we can do is offer Precious the minimum with a player option as injury insurance. Knicks can give him more money.

Could've had Jalen Smith backing up Nurkic but we know Jones loves giving away players for free. Also Torrey Craig was never a good player. Not when we traded for him and not when we had our best years and I will die on that hill. Anyway, random rant but we're probably not having this discussion if Jones doesn't make that move

Yeah i guess the dream situation is moving Nurk for picks, Grayson for WCJ, and Beal coming off the bench. Allowing us:

Jones/Booker/《whoever but I like Dunn》/ Durant/WCJ

With Beal leading the way off the bench OTW to a 6MOTY award....

[Saberestar]

Liddell official acquired today just about one hour ago. Will he be waived immediately or does he go to training camp and compete with Damion Lee for a spot?

I expect Liddell to be out of the team in the next few days.

I don't understand the need to cut him right away. Let him go through training camp and see how he fairs. The Suns are on the small side at the forward position and he fills that gap. He is young as well. If the Suns cut him just before the season starts he could then fill their final two-way spot.

He isn't good enough to be on the final 15-man roster. Damion Lee played very well before his injury and can be useful as a sniper, I can't imagine our FO waiving him just after signing a month ago.

We have already two rookies on the roster, we don't need another raw player on the bench.

I would be OK with him on a 2-way contract, I agree with you on that but his agent probably would want to sign it NOW and not in October when his opportunities will be fewer and worse than in late July.

[Fo-Real]

What if Booker has volunteered to be Ginobili off the bench? Would the fans even accept that? Book has been so selfless and has changed his game the most to try to make it work, I wouldn't be surprise if he would do it. You would definitely know who was the focal point when he comes in the game!! He would be deemed a Jordan Clarkson type of flame thrower off the bench. The offense would be him and whatever else happened!! He would get Steph Curry type of screens, play calls and cart blanch!!

[Saberestar]

What if Booker has volunteered to be Ginobili off the bench? Would the fans even accept that? Book has been so selfless and has changed his game the most to try to make it work, I wouldn't be surprise if he would do it. You would definitely know who was the focal point when he comes in the game!! He would be deemed a Jordan Clarkson type of flame thrower off the bench. The offense would be him and whatever else happened!! He would get Steph Curry type of screens, play calls and cart blanch!!

Not happening.

[SkyBill40]

What if Booker has volunteered to be Ginobili off the bench? Would the fans even accept that? Book has been so selfless and has changed his game the most to try to make it work, I wouldn't be surprise if he would do it. You would definitely know who was the focal point when he comes in the game!! He would be deemed a Jordan Clarkson type of flame thrower off the bench. The offense would be him and whatever else happened!! He would get Steph Curry type of screens, play calls and cart blanch!!

Absolutely no chance of that happening. Booker is, without a doubt, a starter and in the prime of his career; Ginobili was always better as a sixth man even when he was starting. Besides, even with Durant, this is still seen as Booker's team and he's the franchise player. Ginobili was never that.

[KdoubleDees23]

What if Booker has volunteered to be Ginobili off the bench? Would the fans even accept that? Book has been so selfless and has changed his game the most to try to make it work, I wouldn't be surprise if he would do it. You would definitely know who was the focal point when he comes in the game!! He would be deemed a Jordan Clarkson type of flame thrower off the bench. The offense would be him and whatever else happened!! He would get Steph Curry type of screens, play calls and cart blanch!!

This is a horrible take lol. Beal should be traded for peanuts before this happens.

Booker is needed and a top player, why the heck would we put him off the bench.

[KdoubleDees23]

I wish we could do Beal for Jerami Grant! Make something work with another team

Tyus Jones
Booker
KD
Grant
Nurkic

[Fo-Real]

What if Booker has volunteered to be Ginobili off the bench? Would the fans even accept that? Book has been so selfless and has changed his game the most to try to make it work, I wouldn't be surprise if he would do it. You would definitely know who was the focal point when he comes in the game!! He would be deemed a Jordan Clarkson type of flame thrower off the bench. The offense would be him and whatever else happened!! He would get Steph Curry type of screens, play calls and cart blanch!!

This is a horrible take lol. Beal should be traded for peanuts before this happens.

Booker is needed and a top player, why the heck would we put him off the bench.

Its not a take, It was a what if as far as Jones being promised a starting job. It was a what if as far as Booker being the most selfless star on the team and being up for what ever role he thought would improve the team. A take would have led in with " I THINK" or "WE SHOULD"..... Just throwing **** against the wall about what Book and KD knew about the trade and wondering if Beal is gonna be receptive to the idea of coming off the bench because he is not as team oriented as Booker. We have no chance of trading him.... NONE!

[lilfishi22]

What if Booker has volunteered to be Ginobili off the bench? Would the fans even accept that? Book has been so selfless and has changed his game the most to try to make it work, I wouldn't be surprise if he would do it. You would definitely know who was the focal point when he comes in the game!! He would be deemed a Jordan Clarkson type of flame thrower off the bench. The offense would be him and whatever else happened!! He would get Steph Curry type of screens, play calls and cart blanch!!

This is a horrible take lol. Beal should be traded for peanuts before this happens.

Booker is needed and a top player, why the heck would we put him off the bench.

Its not a take, It was a what if as far as Jones being promised a starting job. It was a what if as far as Booker being the most selfless star on the team and being up for what ever role he thought would improve the team. A take would have led in with " I THINK" or "WE SHOULD"..... Just throwing **** against the wall about what Book and KD knew about the trade and wondering if Beal is gonna be receptive to the idea of coming off the bench because he is not as team oriented as Booker. We have no chance of trading him.... NONE!

Beal would volunteer to come off the bench before franchise player Booker does, and there's basically now chance Beal would do that willingly.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Jones, Beal, Booker would get torched by all of SGA, Doncic, Edwards, Zion.

If O'Neale (or similar) doesn't get 20 minutes on them we are max 2nd round.

[Bogyo]

Jones, Beal, Booker would get torched by all of SGA, Doncic, Edwards, Zion.

If O'Neale (or similar) doesn't get 20 minutes on them we are max 2nd round.

Make that 25... thats why I dont really understand this whole discourse-saga, the only question should really be if its Beal or Jones starting, the rest kinda has to be Book, O'neale, KD, Nurk, if you want to have the best balanced team out there who is actually somewhat capable of guarding other teams starters.
Now if you promised Tyus a starting job, then it's on you to convince Beal to come off the bench and play "everything" from 1-2-3 and guarantee that he'll have his 30 (+?) minutes, and shots as well. If he doesn't like that then he can waive his ntc, and we can look into trading him and getting a more balanced team... (imagine being able to trade him to Orlando for WSJ and maybe Isaac and picks )

[lilfishi22]

Watch on YouTube

[Revived]

I wish we could do Beal for Jerami Grant! Make something work with another team

Tyus Jones
Booker
KD
Grant
Nurkic

Why would Portland even consider it? And Beal has a no-trade clause, no way he willingly goes to go live in the hell hole known as Portland when he has a better option.

[Revived]

US game was a proof Booker and KD should focus more on shooting 3s than ISO/midrange after combining for 9/10.

Eh, shorter 3 point line is basically a middy

Not shorter at the corners. With Jones/Nurkic PnRs and Beal penetrating, coach supposedly demanding more 3s they should get a lot of those shots as long as they commit to it.

Vogel said in late season interview that he wants/wanted them to shoot more 3s but that the star players basically refused to (paraphrasing).

When they have a Suns jersey on, KD and Booker are too obsessed with killing all ball movement and taking up ton of shot clock to attempt the most inefficient shot in basketball which is a tough contested midrange shot after a few pointless left to right crossovers to look cool.

But yeah like you said, watching them in Team USA their shooting the ball with zero hesitation. Wish they could’ve done some of this last season.

I think having a real PG in Tyus Jones will help.