OT: NFL 24-25 Offseason Thread - Draft Day is upon us

[Ghetto Gospel]

I left the Eagles game saying the eagles were far more talented and we shouldn't have been on the field with them. There dline destroyed everything we tried to do before even doing it. Didn't even get a sense other than that tbh.

I don't think you can even say it wasn't an "easy decision" I'm saying its a near impossible sell job to Mara and the NY Giants (who have never went into a season tanking). I assume you have seen hard knocks. Look at tap dancing Schoen had to do to convince Mara they needed to walk away from Barkley. Imagine him saying Hey John...we won a road playoff game but even though Jones had a really strong season we need to walk away from him. Mara goes...who are we replacing him with...and Schoen goes IDK? Don't see that as realistic.

Also Minny traded for an extra 1st round pick to guarantee they were going to get a QB. They were desperately trying to trade up per reports.

The Giants passed on JJ...so they obviously didn't have any conviction he's the guy...so I am glad they are being selective with the process. They also tried to trade up so they clearly are still very much trying to find the future QB. They aren't married to Jones at all. He is basically a bridge QB this year.

i also saw the talent gap in the eagles game, but i also saw a talent gap at QB.

i also saw mara say something to the effect of: if you think daniel jones is not that guy, and you want to go get that QB go get it, referencing the trade up to get eli. he gave schoen the freedom to make decisions related to the giants QB. obviously, it would have been great to see a couple of years ago, but just because he was a bit reluctant to let barkley go, doesn't mean that he wouldn't allow schoen to do his thing. i think we've seen teams take a step back to take a couple of steps forward. even the patriots during their dynastic years took steps back for a few years to clear cap space to compete again later. the bills are doing it right now. they won a playoff game last year, but this year, they're taking time to clear the books a little bit, to build towards something again later.

with regards to the vikigns being desperate trying to trade up per reports but i'm not 100% convinced. reports can be very misleading, especially seeing how linked jj mccarthy was to us, but watching that hard knocks episode, he wasn't really that HEAVILY considered by the giants front office, although it could have been edited to make it that way. i also noted that during the hard knocks episode, schoen was considering a trade down to the bears for a 3rd and a 4th iirc if nabers wasn't going to be there. a desperate team could easily beat that offer. they easily could have went into the season with sam darnold as starter and frankly i think that's a fine decision if they didn't get jjm. it's okay to take steps back

But that wasn't after we had a 10 win season and made the Division round in the playoffs...that was after a bad year where DJ had poor season along with neck and ACL injury. Compeltely different situations...i don't think he would have been open to moving on)

We also had the 6th pick in the draft....rather than the 25th...completely different scenarios to go get a future QB and sell your owner and fan base.

Schoen isn't a dummy, if anything Hard Knocks should tell you he is very modern with his thinking. He knows if you don't have a good QB your team isn't going anywhere and weighed not wanting to pick that high again but when you are picking high you have to evaluate the QB's.

It just happened that the worst 3 teams all needed QB's. I am happy we didn't reach to get a QB we didn't have conviction on. They clearly had conviction on Jayden Daniels and to a lesser extent Drake Maye but enough to at least exchange trades that got somewhat serious with. But you gotta have two to tango.

Again as I said...Daniel Jones isn't preventing the Giants from getting there franchise QB if they go through the process and feel like a player is the right guy.

and after that exact season, he didn't want to let barkley go either even though he looks like he's on the decline. who knows what mara thinks. i just don't think you can confidently assess mara's mindset.

i didn't want schoen to try and draft up to like 5 or whatever in the 2022 draft to get a QB. i was okay with a variety of scenarios including just moving forward with tyrod taylor.

i also agree that schoen isn't a dummy but that doesn't exclude him from making incorrect decisions.

i am also happy not trading up. watching that hard knocks episode, it seemed like the patriots wanted a kings ransom from the giants because the patriots wanted drake maye. we can't mortgage the future for a qb that we can't provide a future for

i also agree that daniel jones isnt preventing us from getting a franchise QB. i don't think it's a crazy big deal really. i'm just noting that it was an incorrect decision in a series of decisions that offseason that slowed down the rebuilding process.

[mpharris36]

i also saw the talent gap in the eagles game, but i also saw a talent gap at QB.

i also saw mara say something to the effect of: if you think daniel jones is not that guy, and you want to go get that QB go get it, referencing the trade up to get eli. he gave schoen the freedom to make decisions related to the giants QB. obviously, it would have been great to see a couple of years ago, but just because he was a bit reluctant to let barkley go, doesn't mean that he wouldn't allow schoen to do his thing. i think we've seen teams take a step back to take a couple of steps forward. even the patriots during their dynastic years took steps back for a few years to clear cap space to compete again later. the bills are doing it right now. they won a playoff game last year, but this year, they're taking time to clear the books a little bit, to build towards something again later.

with regards to the vikigns being desperate trying to trade up per reports but i'm not 100% convinced. reports can be very misleading, especially seeing how linked jj mccarthy was to us, but watching that hard knocks episode, he wasn't really that HEAVILY considered by the giants front office, although it could have been edited to make it that way. i also noted that during the hard knocks episode, schoen was considering a trade down to the bears for a 3rd and a 4th iirc if nabers wasn't going to be there. a desperate team could easily beat that offer. they easily could have went into the season with sam darnold as starter and frankly i think that's a fine decision if they didn't get jjm. it's okay to take steps back

But that wasn't after we had a 10 win season and made the Division round in the playoffs...that was after a bad year where DJ had poor season along with neck and ACL injury. Compeltely different situations...i don't think he would have been open to moving on)

We also had the 6th pick in the draft....rather than the 25th...completely different scenarios to go get a future QB and sell your owner and fan base.

Schoen isn't a dummy, if anything Hard Knocks should tell you he is very modern with his thinking. He knows if you don't have a good QB your team isn't going anywhere and weighed not wanting to pick that high again but when you are picking high you have to evaluate the QB's.

It just happened that the worst 3 teams all needed QB's. I am happy we didn't reach to get a QB we didn't have conviction on. They clearly had conviction on Jayden Daniels and to a lesser extent Drake Maye but enough to at least exchange trades that got somewhat serious with. But you gotta have two to tango.

Again as I said...Daniel Jones isn't preventing the Giants from getting there franchise QB if they go through the process and feel like a player is the right guy.

and after that exact season, he didn't want to let barkley go either even though he looks like he's on the decline. who knows what mara thinks. i just don't think you can confidently assess mara's mindset.

i didn't want schoen to try and draft up to like 5 or whatever in the 2022 draft to get a QB. i was okay with a variety of scenarios including just moving forward with tyrod taylor.

i also agree that schoen isn't a dummy but that doesn't exclude him from making incorrect decisions.

i am also happy not trading up. watching that hard knocks episode, it seemed like the patriots wanted a kings ransom from the giants because the patriots wanted drake maye. we can't mortgage the future for a qb that we can't provide a future for

i also agree that daniel jones isnt preventing us from getting a franchise QB. i don't think it's a crazy big deal really. i'm just noting that it was an incorrect decision in a series of decisions that offseason that slowed down the rebuilding process.

I think you make a lot of fair and reasonable points and its been a pleasant convo so I appreciate that. Where we will agree to disagree is saying it was the incorrect decision. In hindsight we could have done different things like just picking up his 5th year option, franchising Jones (but that would mean Barkley would have left a year earlier) or we would have him on a much longer deal and then no Okereke and other moves that having Jones 16 MM cap hit last year helped us do.

I don't think just rolling with Tyrod Taylor after a playoff win and all that momentum was realistic at all. So that is what we won't agree on. You can't sell that to the fan base and owner. NFL teams don't run themselves like NBA teams.

What is more interesting to me is this year. Obviously most if not all people believe Jones isn't the future of this team. But have you considered if he has a good year and the Giants play well? Obviously not picking high makes getting a QB even harder...is there a group of QB's upcoming worth picking (they will show themselves this college year always new guys come out like Jayden Daniels did).

Obviously if we are bad and we are picking high there is no question what we will do.

[Ghetto Gospel]

But that wasn't after we had a 10 win season and made the Division round in the playoffs...that was after a bad year where DJ had poor season along with neck and ACL injury. Compeltely different situations...i don't think he would have been open to moving on)

We also had the 6th pick in the draft....rather than the 25th...completely different scenarios to go get a future QB and sell your owner and fan base.

Schoen isn't a dummy, if anything Hard Knocks should tell you he is very modern with his thinking. He knows if you don't have a good QB your team isn't going anywhere and weighed not wanting to pick that high again but when you are picking high you have to evaluate the QB's.

It just happened that the worst 3 teams all needed QB's. I am happy we didn't reach to get a QB we didn't have conviction on. They clearly had conviction on Jayden Daniels and to a lesser extent Drake Maye but enough to at least exchange trades that got somewhat serious with. But you gotta have two to tango.

Again as I said...Daniel Jones isn't preventing the Giants from getting there franchise QB if they go through the process and feel like a player is the right guy.

and after that exact season, he didn't want to let barkley go either even though he looks like he's on the decline. who knows what mara thinks. i just don't think you can confidently assess mara's mindset.

i didn't want schoen to try and draft up to like 5 or whatever in the 2022 draft to get a QB. i was okay with a variety of scenarios including just moving forward with tyrod taylor.

i also agree that schoen isn't a dummy but that doesn't exclude him from making incorrect decisions.

i am also happy not trading up. watching that hard knocks episode, it seemed like the patriots wanted a kings ransom from the giants because the patriots wanted drake maye. we can't mortgage the future for a qb that we can't provide a future for

i also agree that daniel jones isnt preventing us from getting a franchise QB. i don't think it's a crazy big deal really. i'm just noting that it was an incorrect decision in a series of decisions that offseason that slowed down the rebuilding process.

I think you make a lot of fair and reasonable points and its been a pleasant convo so I appreciate that. Where we will agree to disagree is saying it was the incorrect decision. In hindsight we could have done different things like just picking up his 5th year option, franchising Jones (but that would mean Barkley would have left a year earlier) or we would have him on a much longer deal and then no Okereke and other moves that having Jones 16 MM cap hit last year helped us do.

I don't think just rolling with Tyrod Taylor after a playoff win and all that momentum was realistic at all. So that is what we won't agree on. You can't sell that to the fan base and owner. NFL teams don't run themselves like NBA teams.

What is more interesting to me is this year. Obviously most if not all people believe Jones isn't the future of this team. But have you considered if he has a good year and the Giants play well? Obviously not picking high makes getting a QB even harder...is there a group of QB's upcoming worth picking (they will show themselves this college year always new guys come out like Jayden Daniels did).

Obviously if we are bad and we are picking high there is no question what we will do.

same, it's been pleasant, but yeah, i think skipping that 5th year option on daniel jones was the correct decision given what he had showed through that point in time. i was also pretty comfortable letting barkley walk rather than franchising. i personally feel like the majority of RBs aren't that valuable unless they provide a lot in the passing game. really only c-mac and kamara off the top of my head. the goodwill from the okereke move is canceled out by the waller trade in my mind which i don't think we should have made.

it doesn't have to be tyrod taylor, he's just who we had on the roster at the time. baker mayfield would have been fine too. i just don't think we should be at the mercy of daniel fking jones lol.

hmm.. if the giants do well and jones play well.. personally, i would assess based on what went well because i'm most concerned about the supporting cast. if nabers looks like a superstar, deonte banks takes the next step and looks like a shutdown corner, the 2 new rookies in the secondary look like legit starters, etc. and the wins are truly legit, i'd feel comfortable doing what the eagles did a few years back when they drafted jalen hurts in the 2nd. bring back daniel (if he plays well) for a year, take a qb in the 2nd that you like and let's see if daniel plays well again and if he don't we got his replacement in the wings. i think it's required to take a qb no matter what if the supporting cast looks good because of his neck concerns imo

[MrDollarBills]

Watch on YouTube

There are way too many questions about Jones for me to feel comfortable, apparently Jones can't hit Nabers or Hyatt down the middle of the field so far in camp. Nabers is burning everyone.

[MrDollarBills]

Jordan love got 55m per

[mpharris36]

Read on Twitter

this is good news...he was with our OL coach last year and started all 17 games for the Raiders. He graded out pretty well on PFF. Surprised he was still available. He's a bit older but seems like he has been a quality starter.

Not sure this bodes well for Evan Neal who is still on the PUP list.

[GONYK]

Read on Twitter

this is good news...he was with our OL coach last year and started all 17 games for the Raiders. He graded out pretty well on PFF. Surprised he was still available. He's a bit older but seems like he has been a quality starter.

Not sure this bodes well for Evan Neal who is still on the PUP list.

He visited last week. I was looking out for this announcement.

The OLine needs a lot of options. I'm glad Schoen is fortifying it as much as possible and putting us in a position to really evaluate Neal in the "nice to have" capacity rather than absolutely relying on him.

[MrDollarBills]

Read on Twitter

this is good news...he was with our OL coach last year and started all 17 games for the Raiders. He graded out pretty well on PFF. Surprised he was still available. He's a bit older but seems like he has been a quality starter.

Not sure this bodes well for Evan Neal who is still on the PUP list.

Neal can take his time. I'm out on him as a RT.

[mpharris36]

Read on Twitter

this is good news...he was with our OL coach last year and started all 17 games for the Raiders. He graded out pretty well on PFF. Surprised he was still available. He's a bit older but seems like he has been a quality starter.

Not sure this bodes well for Evan Neal who is still on the PUP list.

Neal can take his time. I'm out on him as a RT.

I think if he comes back he will shift inside to see if he can play guard. Seems like Elumanor is our RT

[mpharris36]

Read on Twitter

this is good news...he was with our OL coach last year and started all 17 games for the Raiders. He graded out pretty well on PFF. Surprised he was still available. He's a bit older but seems like he has been a quality starter.

Not sure this bodes well for Evan Neal who is still on the PUP list.

He visited last week. I was looking out for this announcement.

The OLine needs a lot of options. I'm glad Schoen is fortifying it as much as possible and putting us in a position to really evaluate Neal in the "nice to have" capacity rather than absolutely relying on him.

yup we certainly saw what happen after the first drive of the season last year. Early in the season we were playing with multiple practice squad players and our oline was trending to be the worst OL in history until we finally got some of them back later in the season.

I think he starts and then they can come slowly along with Neal if he ever gets back healthy.

[F N 11]

Read on Twitter

this is good news...he was with our OL coach last year and started all 17 games for the Raiders. He graded out pretty well on PFF. Surprised he was still available. He's a bit older but seems like he has been a quality starter.

Not sure this bodes well for Evan Neal who is still on the PUP list.

Yes

Run block not good but he gonna give time to throw. This guy put Chris Jones on his ass on a YouTube highlight. This is solid. This allows Schlottman, Stinnie and Neal to be depth pieces which is good. The line has to be improved.

[F N 11]

https://youtube.com/shorts/RzxoqUoA-4E?si=nTiiwcchuOkEEauX

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?s=46

[MrDollarBills]

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[GONYK]

Schmitz missed his third straight day with an injury to the same shoulder that kept him out last season

[MrDollarBills]

Schmitz missed his third straight day with an injury to the same shoulder that kept him out last season

Yeah I heard about the shoulder the other day.

This isn't good tbh. Why is that shoulder still an issue?

The margin for error on that line is hair thin.

[MrDollarBills]

I feel like the media is pushing for Schoen/Daboll to get canned and I can't get down with it.

Now if we don't see improvement and we go 2 and 15, okay there's a serious problem. But if we see a step forward at least in terms of defense, facets of offense and special teams, I see zero reason to fire these guys without seeing what they can do with a QB that they select themselves. A 7-10 finish would be an overachievement considering Jones is horrible and our offensive line is still ranked next to last.

Am I looking at this the wrong way?

[GONYK]

I feel like the media is pushing for Schoen/Daboll to get canned and I can't get down with it.

Now if we don't see improvement and we go 2 and 15, okay there's a serious problem. But if we see a step forward at least in terms of defense, facets of offense and special teams, I see zero reason to fire these guys without seeing what they can do with a QB that they select themselves. A 7-10 finish would be an overachievement considering Jones is horrible and our offensive line is still ranked next to last.

Am I looking at this the wrong way?

Which media are pushing that narrative? I haven't gotten the sense that they are on the hotseat.

[Luv those Knicks]

I feel like the media is pushing for Schoen/Daboll to get canned and I can't get down with it.

Now if we don't see improvement and we go 2 and 15, okay there's a serious problem. But if we see a step forward at least in terms of defense, facets of offense and special teams, I see zero reason to fire these guys without seeing what they can do with a QB that they select themselves. A 7-10 finish would be an overachievement considering Jones is horrible and our offensive line is still ranked next to last.

Am I looking at this the wrong way?

Which media are pushing that narrative? I haven't gotten the sense that they are on the hotseat.

I don't know if it counts as media, it kind of is, but Hard Knocks is making them look good. I'm enjoying the season so far, though I'm streaming so I'm an episode or two behind.

[MrDollarBills]

I feel like the media is pushing for Schoen/Daboll to get canned and I can't get down with it.

Now if we don't see improvement and we go 2 and 15, okay there's a serious problem. But if we see a step forward at least in terms of defense, facets of offense and special teams, I see zero reason to fire these guys without seeing what they can do with a QB that they select themselves. A 7-10 finish would be an overachievement considering Jones is horrible and our offensive line is still ranked next to last.

Am I looking at this the wrong way?

Which media are pushing that narrative? I haven't gotten the sense that they are on the hotseat.

ESPN, one of their reporters was saying that this is a make or break year for them or they're gonna get canned and I'm just baffled by this.

We need to keep building. Yeah, I know, Jones got paid 40m I just don't think I've seen anything that warrants firing either guy. We need continuity and stability not another coaching merry go round.

[ScienceOfLosing]

Read on Twitter

this is good news...he was with our OL coach last year and started all 17 games for the Raiders. He graded out pretty well on PFF. Surprised he was still available. He's a bit older but seems like he has been a quality starter.

Not sure this bodes well for Evan Neal who is still on the PUP list.

Neal can take his time. I'm out on him as a RT.

I think if he comes back he will shift inside to see if he can play guard. Seems like Elumanor is our RT

Yeah, he just doesn’t have speed on the outside. Should be fine inside.
But a wasted high pick, though he could be great inside and at a cheaper price than a RT.