Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Beal for Midds discussed last year

[emunney]

If people wanna just chalk it up as a coincidence that the playoff defensive metrics for Brook looked great the only time in the last 3-years where we actually had a non-Giannis big/wing that wasn't an absolute trash pile on defense (PJ), then ok, I guess. Seems like Brook is more situational than Giannis and can't single handedly prop up bad defensive personnel around him, aka looks like we're reaching the "well duh" portion of Brook conclusions.

Now who's using small sample sizes?

[bdpecore]

Well, at face value, seems like we need Giannis but do not need Brook.

Not true as it also shows Brook isn't a defensive liability when Giannis is playing next to him and teams struggle to score in the paint when both are on the floor.

If you're drawing that conclusion, you also have to draw the conclusion that Brook is a substantial offensive liability playing next to Giannis.

I think this is accurate even though he provides above average floor spacing for a NBA center. But he also is a main reason our offensive rating doesn't drop off much when Giannis is out. He's a capable scorer when given more touches especially in the post.

[Ron Swanson]

Well, his 2021 playoff minutes (667) were about as much as the last 3-playoffs combined (714).

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

A concern of mine with BroLo is how dependable is his 3 point shot. He's been launching 5 per game at league average but there was a good chunk of last season where it wasn't falling. He's had seasons in low-30s but is career 35%. We need him to be 35%+ if he continues to launch with that kind of reckless abandon.

[emunney]

Well, his 2021 playoff minutes (667) are about as much as the last 3-playoffs combined (714).

I've lost track of your point.

If anybody has any data suggesting that it'd be difficult to replace what we've gotten from Brook in the playoffs, please share. The 2021 data don't do it as we were almost 7 net points better in Giannis' minutes when Brook sat vs. when he played.

[German Athens]

Brook needs to be relegated to being a true situational big. The one that collects DNP’s in certain matchups, and plays 35+ minutes in others, but it’s hard to justify that and more importantly, pivot to that, when he’s getting paid what he is.

The defense has been catering to his strengths, and hiding his weaknesses to the point that he seems irreplaceable. I think the reality is he’s big, has good timing on contests, and communicates well - those three attributes shouldn’t be that hard to find. Dayron Sharpe, Goga, Robert Williams, etc.

Just get solid nba players back, not Henson or Monroe.

[Ron Swanson]

Well, his 2021 playoff minutes (667) are about as much as the last 3-playoffs combined (714).

I've lost track of your point.

If anybody has any data suggesting that it'd be difficult to replace what we've gotten from Brook in the playoffs, please share. The 2021 data don't do it as we were almost 7 net points better in Giannis' minutes when Brook sat vs. when he played.

See Bobby's career numbers that suggest he's damn near a Draymond level impact guy in the playoffs despite being a borderline lineup-killing defensive sieve in the much broader regular season data. No, I don't care about small playoff on/off samples, especially in the last 2-3 years where this team hasn't had its best players healthy. That's the point.

[emunney]

Well, his 2021 playoff minutes (667) are about as much as the last 3-playoffs combined (714).

I've lost track of your point.

If anybody has any data suggesting that it'd be difficult to replace what we've gotten from Brook in the playoffs, please share. The 2021 data don't do it as we were almost 7 net points better in Giannis' minutes when Brook sat vs. when he played.

See Bobby's career numbers that suggest he's damn near a Draymond level impact guy in the playoffs despite being a borderline lineup-killing defensive sieve in the much broader regular season data. No, I don't care about small playoff on/off samples, especially in the last 2-3 years where this team hasn't had its best players healthy. That's the point.

Do you think the playoffs and regular season are the same in all cases or just this one?

[Ron Swanson]

Brook needs to be relegated to being a true situational big. The one that collects DNP’s in certain matchups, and plays 35+ minutes in others, but it’s hard to justify that and more importantly, pivot to that, when he’s getting paid what he is.

The defense has been catering to his strengths, and hiding his weaknesses to the point that he seems irreplaceable. I think the reality is he’s big, has good timing on contests, and communicates well - those three attributes shouldn’t be that hard to find. Dayron Sharpe, Goga, Robert Williams, etc.

Just get solid nba players back, not Henson or Monroe.

This is where you guys completely lose me. He's the 70th highest paid player in the NBA....

[Dick Tate]

People are going to always speculate and have conversations and they’ll think they know what they’re talking about, but at the end of the day, we have zero interest or intention of trading Brook Lopez.

Assuming Horst sees some possible playoff matchups the Bucks haven't faced yet where Lopez will be a big plus.

[German Athens]

Brook needs to be relegated to being a true situational big. The one that collects DNP’s in certain matchups, and plays 35+ minutes in others, but it’s hard to justify that and more importantly, pivot to that, when he’s getting paid what he is.

The defense has been catering to his strengths, and hiding his weaknesses to the point that he seems irreplaceable. I think the reality is he’s big, has good timing on contests, and communicates well - those three attributes shouldn’t be that hard to find. Dayron Sharpe, Goga, Robert Williams, etc.

Just get solid nba players back, not Henson or Monroe.

This is where you guys completely lose me. He's the 70th highest paid player in the NBA....

It’s not bad in a vacuum, but we’re just in a bind, since our top 2 guys account for 70% of the cap. I’m happy to keep brook, and have him be that situational big, because I think he’s very good in his role, but I’m hard pressed to think we can get the same sort of guys by just trading Bobby (my preferred route) whether that’s due to his value or salary matching limitations.

[Ron Swanson]

I've lost track of your point.

If anybody has any data suggesting that it'd be difficult to replace what we've gotten from Brook in the playoffs, please share. The 2021 data don't do it as we were almost 7 net points better in Giannis' minutes when Brook sat vs. when he played.

See Bobby's career numbers that suggest he's damn near a Draymond level impact guy in the playoffs despite being a borderline lineup-killing defensive sieve in the much broader regular season data. No, I don't care about small playoff on/off samples, especially in the last 2-3 years where this team hasn't had its best players healthy. That's the point.

Do you think the playoffs and regular season are the same in all cases or just this one?

You do realize most of us here actually agree that Brook is both a situational guy now and will only get more so from here on out, right? It's the "he's not difficult to replace" part that you're getting flak for. I put as much stock into the playoff defensive metrics without Giannis about the same as throwing out how Brook being an 18-19 PPG scorer on 65% TS the last two postseasons makes him somehow an indispensable part of the offense. Just throw the numbers out.

[Diggr14]

Kinda criminal that we haven't tried to find a Brook replacement yet. Or at least someone who can fill in and give him off nights. Dude is 36 years old.

I always wanted Luka Garza. He is not being used by Minnesota. He would play with us. Good efficiency, good player.

[slos]

People will love Bobby/Brook if/when Giannis settles to become a starting C. I will love that combo coming from the bench for 20ish minutes destroying 2nd units.



XXX (12)/Bobby (24)/Giannis (12)
Giannis (24)/Brook (24)

Maybe that’s a season too early with no starting 4, Giannis just entering his 30s and Brook getting paid 23 mil. But could become a possibility moving forward. Horst has taken good care of Bobby/Brook to retain them at MLE money. It would be awesome if he could add a 4/3 starter to make this work.

[emunney]

See Bobby's career numbers that suggest he's damn near a Draymond level impact guy in the playoffs despite being a borderline lineup-killing defensive sieve in the much broader regular season data. No, I don't care about small playoff on/off samples, especially in the last 2-3 years where this team hasn't had its best players healthy. That's the point.

Do you think the playoffs and regular season are the same in all cases or just this one?

You do realize most of us here actually agree that Brook is both a situational guy now and will only get more so from here on out, right? It's the "he's not difficult to replace" part that you're getting flak for. I put as much stock into the playoff defensive metrics without Giannis about the same as throwing out how Brook being an 18-19 PPG scorer on 65% TS the last two postseasons makes him somehow an indispensable part of the offense. Just throw the numbers out.

Am I getting flak? I'm just not really sure what we disagree on. It seems like it's just that I think the on/off numbers likely suggest something about Brook's playoff utility and you don't, even though you basically agree with the conclusion?

[Bernman]

I agree on everything except for the trading Bobby part. His scoring and rebounding off the bench would need to be replaced. Bobby has shortcomings but he is still a mismatch for most teams. If he only passed more he would be golden even with all his negatives.

I know Achiuwa is a free agent option but I think Jock Landale would be another guy to target.

Achiuwa had the same rebound % as Bobby last yr. So we'd have replaced it, or better. Bobby steals many boards from teammates.

The Bucks could use the 1st for a bench scorer and/or another big, if needed.

Landale's more the option if we trade Brook instead.

[ShootingtheJ]

Bucks most played lineup was big 3 + Brook and it had a monster net rating. He just makes sense with our stars. Someone like Reed would've been nice for a small ball 4 but can't ignore that Brook has his use, especially next to Giannis

You're talking about the regular season. Playoffs are different, teams are more willing to recreate themselves for a 7 game series.

And there are plenty of playoff match ups where Brook is useful for 20-25 mins a night

In a playoff series? That's enough minutes for him to bomb us out of a playoff game by giving up 3s.

[ShootingtheJ]

wanting to get rid of brook so that we can play small is dumb as hell

we already have the best small-ball 5 in the league

and sometimes you need a big-ball 5, even in today's game

Not in the playoffs.

depends on the team

we 110% need brook vs philly or denver

I continue to be befuddlled as to why we'd save a grossly overpaid player just so he can guard an absolute playoff choker.

[ShootingtheJ]

See Bobby's career numbers that suggest he's damn near a Draymond level impact guy in the playoffs despite being a borderline lineup-killing defensive sieve in the much broader regular season data. No, I don't care about small playoff on/off samples, especially in the last 2-3 years where this team hasn't had its best players healthy. That's the point.

Do you think the playoffs and regular season are the same in all cases or just this one?

You do realize most of us here actually agree that Brook is both a situational guy now and will only get more so from here on out, right? It's the "he's not difficult to replace" part that you're getting flak for. I put as much stock into the playoff defensive metrics without Giannis about the same as throwing out how Brook being an 18-19 PPG scorer on 65% TS the last two postseasons makes him somehow an indispensable part of the offense. Just throw the numbers out.

The offense was no better with Brook on the floor versus the Pacers, and was worse with Brook on the floor versus the Heat. He makes the offense rigid because of the need to always place him in certain spots to give him a chance to get back on defense.

Giannis deserves a chance just once in his prime to play with another athletic big.

[midranger]

70th highest paid player in the NBA makes him a high end third best player on an average team.

He ain’t that. He’s probably still a stud in a very small handful of matchups and somewhere between sparingly used minutes eater and completely unplayable in the majority matchups in the playoffs in the modern nba.

Trade him and get a usable player or two. He can easily be a luxury expiring contract/matchup/culture guy to future asset rich teams who want to take a step forward (Houston, okc). We don’t have the luxury of luxury players.