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Homer38 wrote:MavsDirk41 wrote:SlimShady83 wrote:
lol yep and It's not even close to being the actual NBA season yet
Nfl season kicks off in 5 weeks….something to look forward to until the end of October
I always look forward at how bad the cowboys will choke in january!
MavsDirk41 wrote:Homer38 wrote:MavsDirk41 wrote:
Nfl season kicks off in 5 weeks….something to look forward to until the end of October
I always look forward at how bad the cowboys will choke in january!
Kind of like 2011 nba finals James choke lol?
SlimShady83 wrote:NO PLEASE DON'T START TALKING ABOUT OTHER SPORTS, this is basketball only
bledredwine wrote:There were 3 times Jordan won and was considered the underdog
1989 Eastern Conference Finals against the Detroit Pistons, the 1991 NBA Finals against the Magic Johnson-led Los Angeles Lakers, and the 1995 Eastern Conference Finals against the NY Knicks
ScrantonBulls wrote:SlimShady83 wrote:NO PLEASE DON'T START TALKING ABOUT OTHER SPORTS, this is basketball only
Who made you boss? This moderator sanctioned GOAT thread sucks ass. OP is drunk again too.
LeBron is 0-7 in game winning/tying FGs in the finals. And is 20/116 or 17% in game winning/tying FGs in the 4th/OT for his career. That's historically bad Lalouie wrote:ScrantonBulls wrote:I'm not talking about making their teammates better by giving them assist like Magic or anything. See the thought provoking post below about what I mean - specifically the bolded.bledredwine wrote:
That's a really unusual take. Jordan impacted both ends of the floor as much as anyone.
And more than Hakeem, Lebron, or anyone you mentioned, Jordan held the teammates accountable,
holding them to a very high standard and turning practices into wars, which made games easy-
this has been said by multiple players, from Scottie to BJ, Grant etc.
To say he didn't have a multitude of impact is wild. And when he played point for the Bulls? He averaged near a 32 point triple double during the season while only playing PG for a portion of it. In 1991? He averaged 32.5, 11.4 (3rd highest finals assists of all time behind Russell and Magic) with awesome defense.
There was not much else if anything he could have done to be impactful.
This is why Jordan and Scottie 3-peated twice with two different supporting casts, and Pippen himself stated that Jordan's push made him the player he became (Jordan used to have Pippen guard him during practice when he was young in the league)
The only players that holds others accountable like that whom you mentioned is probably Duncan or Hakeem to an extent, but nearly the same extent as Jordan.
Either way, I appreciate you acknowledging that. Lebron's are impressive as well.
It's been said that no player had the off court impact on his teammates like MJ did.
- He had.twammates accountable like you wouldn't believe. Nobody held teammates more accountable than MJ did.
- He made practices ALL OUT WAR. Per bledredwine's post, this games simple. Games were a walk in the park after to into battle with MJ during practice. Those must have been intense practices.
More than any other player, you hear? How much Pippen benefited from practicing against Jordan. How do you think he became a GOAT wing defender? Practicing against Jordan. He may not have become the all-star player he was without Jordan to play against.
The question is simple. Did any players have the off court impact on teammates that MJ had?
"making teammates better" is in and of itself a specious assertion, but when you stretch it by adding what you parenthesized, it becomes even more difficult.
as in how are you going to back this up.
LeBron is 0-7 in game winning/tying FGs in the finals. And is 20/116 or 17% in game winning/tying FGs in the 4th/OT for his career. That's historically bad 
Edrees wrote:JRoy wrote:Monta Ellis have it all
I was hoping and expecting this to be one of the first replies. You did not disappoint. Jroy have it all.
bledredwine wrote:
This guy has some excellent points.
Jordan stuck with the team when they were way outmatched and took the mentality of making the team tougher over all of those years of being way understaffed (Pippen stated that Jordan had him guard him in practices as well). Lebron teamed up whenever outmatched and the Heatles were immediately the most talented team in the league… and then 2011.
Jordan also didn’t play for stats, he was going to shoot and take over simply for the win. Players actually did say you didn’t look him in the eye because he’d take it as a challenge, and the further he went regular season - playoffs - finals,
the stronger he got. I remember seeing a stat where both Lebron and Kobe’s 50 point games were 75% against losing teams (both players were right around that mark), and 73 percent of Jordan’s were against winning teams, plenty who were strong. Think 63 against the Celtics in the playoffs or 69 against the Cavs, a defensively strong team with light out shooting.
bledredwine wrote:Lalouie wrote:ScrantonBulls wrote:I'm not talking about making their teammates better by giving them assist like Magic or anything. See the thought provoking post below about what I mean - specifically the bolded.
It's been said that no player had the off court impact on his teammates like MJ did.
- He had.twammates accountable like you wouldn't believe. Nobody held teammates more accountable than MJ did.
- He made practices ALL OUT WAR. Per bledredwine's post, this games simple. Games were a walk in the park after to into battle with MJ during practice. Those must have been intense practices.
More than any other player, you hear? How much Pippen benefited from practicing against Jordan. How do you think he became a GOAT wing defender? Practicing against Jordan. He may not have become the all-star player he was without Jordan to play against.
The question is simple. Did any players have the off court impact on teammates that MJ had?
"making teammates better" is in and of itself a specious assertion, but when you stretch it by adding what you parenthesized, it becomes even more difficult.
as in how are you going to back this up.
How about literally most of the Bulls players stating that Jordan made practices harder than games, and then the obvious evidence that Jordan got on a guy’s case any time there was an error on the court.
It’s pretty obvious and if you followed Jordan, you’d know this as a given by now.
MavsDirk41 wrote:Homer38 wrote:MavsDirk41 wrote:
Nfl season kicks off in 5 weeks….something to look forward to until the end of October
I always look forward at how bad the cowboys will choke in january!
Kind of like 2011 nba finals James choke lol?
nikster wrote:bledredwine wrote:
This guy has some excellent points.
Jordan stuck with the team when they were way outmatched and took the mentality of making the team tougher over all of those years of being way understaffed (Pippen stated that Jordan had him guard him in practices as well). Lebron teamed up whenever outmatched and the Heatles were immediately the most talented team in the league… and then 2011.
Jordan also didn’t play for stats, he was going to shoot and take over simply for the win. Players actually did say you didn’t look him in the eye because he’d take it as a challenge, and the further he went regular season - playoffs - finals,
the stronger he got. I remember seeing a stat where both Lebron and Kobe’s 50 point games were 75% against losing teams (both players were right around that mark), and 73 percent of Jordan’s were against winning teams, plenty who were strong. Think 63 against the Celtics in the playoffs or 69 against the Cavs, a defensively strong team with light out shooting.
The initial outmatched team Jordan had around him he didn't make tougher, they were entirely replaced by a competent GM.
LeBron is 0-7 in game winning/tying FGs in the finals. And is 20/116 or 17% in game winning/tying FGs in the 4th/OT for his career. That's historically bad 
foreigngrammar wrote:You dared to not include LeBron at all?