RGM GOAT Debate Thread

[Lo Wang]

Sadly I think you've lose the plot on this one my man... While I'm a Bron hater with a passion as much as "One and Done" Is on Kobe I'm with Bron, But Bron Is an all round player his a stat pad master - and I'm saying that with as hatred passion for him - I admit It I hate Bron, But his good at what he does. I'd still choose Bird and his Celtics over any of Bron's super teams though.

I understand your point. He can do everything: assist, score, rebound, defense, walk on water, etc., but he's only had one great year as the primary facilitator when the Lakers won the championship at Disney World. He averaged 10.2 assists, but for the most part, he's been a 30 point 6 assist guy. Those are Kobe, Shai, Curry, Jordan numbers, so he belongs in that tier. Trust me, that's the tier he wants to be in. All-around guys are a tier below those guys. It's not a diss on Lebron calling him a prolific scorer.

Only 5 of the guys you listed have higher career assists per game average than LeBron.

In fact, LeBron is 26th all time in assists per game - the highest for a non-guard. The only other top 50 non guards are Jokic (33rd) and Bird (50th).

One of my criteria is to omit records. If he plays longer than all those players, then it goes to reason he will have more assists, but to claim his passing is the equivalent of Kidd or Magic is just being disingenuous. Magic stopped playing in his early 30s; Lebron is still playing close to 40. Claiming he has a record number of assist doesn't mean jack squat. It just means he's an old fart who played longer than anybody on that list

[NoStatsGuy]

I'm not budging. Sorry dude, create your own thread if you believe this. I didn't include Nash or Stockton and they are more versatile than Lebron.

i dont care if you budge or not. dont ask whos the best all around player of all time, when you dont wanna hear the correct answer

[Hair Jordan]

Most points ever but a pass first power forward sized wing that could play defense -

Lebron as a pass first player is the biggest myth in NBA history.

No

Yes.

No player who led the league in scoring or is the career points leader or a top 10 PPG guy or a guy who scored 60+ in a game is a pass first player. Magic was a pass first player. Stockton was a pass first player. Ricky Rubio was a pass first player etc etc.

[Homer38]

I understand your point. He can do everything: assist, score, rebound, defense, walk on water, etc., but he's only had one great year as the primary facilitator when the Lakers won the championship at Disney World. He averaged 10.2 assists, but for the most part, he's been a 30 point 6 assist guy. Those are Kobe, Shai, Curry, Jordan numbers, so he belongs in that tier. Trust me, that's the tier he wants to be in. All-around guys are a tier below those guys. It's not a diss on Lebron calling him a prolific scorer.

Only 5 of the guys you listed have higher career assists per game average than LeBron.

In fact, LeBron is 26th all time in assists per game - the highest for a non-guard. The only other top 50 non guards are Jokic (33rd) and Bird (50th).

One of my criteria is to omit records. If he plays longer than all those players, then it goes to reason he will have more assists, but to claim his passing is the equivalent of Kidd or Magic is just being disingenuous. Magic stopped playing in his early 30s; Lebron is still playing close to 40. Claiming he has a record number of assist doesn't mean jack squat. It just means he's an old fart who played longer than anybody on that list

If you look at the average assists per game,LBJ is still higher for any not PG of all-time

[Homer38]

Lebron as a pass first player is the biggest myth in NBA history.

No

Yes.

No player who led the league in scoring or is the career points leader or a top 10 PPG guy or a guy who scored 60+ in a game is a pass first player. Magic was a pass first player. Stockton was a pass first player. Ricky Rubio was a pass first player etc etc.

The difference,LBJ can do both...This is one of the big reason why he is one of the greatest all around player of all time

[Lo Wang]

I'm not budging. Sorry dude, create your own thread if you believe this. I didn't include Nash or Stockton and they are more versatile than Lebron.

i dont care if you budge or not. dont ask whos the best all around player of all time, when you dont wanna hear the correct answer

Then define the criteria. This is the first step to a logical debate. We're just gonna go in circles if we can't properly define what we are arguing over.

[MavsDirk41]

And like how Dirk choked in the first round in 2007 against the 8th seeded Warriors.

He redeemed himself in 2011, spent two decades with the Mavs, and never crawled away to team up with other superstar players to form a superteam. I would take his 2011 championship over any other.

LeBron redeemed himself so many time too

Lebron teamed up with Wade and Bosh in Miami

Went to Cleveland with a 22 year old all star player in Irving, and im sure he was aware that they would trade their draft pick for another all star player which they did

Went to LA and helped orchestrate the Davis trade

Dirk never demanded that Cuban trade for another all star player and he never bailed

Not even close to being the same situation if comparing the two

[dolphinatik]

It's Jordan followed by LeBron. LeBron for support d, Jordan for his man d and overall demoralizing of his opponents. Then it's say kg and David Robinson.

[Lo Wang]

Only 5 of the guys you listed have higher career assists per game average than LeBron.

In fact, LeBron is 26th all time in assists per game - the highest for a non-guard. The only other top 50 non guards are Jokic (33rd) and Bird (50th).

One of my criteria is to omit records. If he plays longer than all those players, then it goes to reason he will have more assists, but to claim his passing is the equivalent of Kidd or Magic is just being disingenuous. Magic stopped playing in his early 30s; Lebron is still playing close to 40. Claiming he has a record number of assist doesn't mean jack squat. It just means he's an old fart who played longer than anybody on that list

If you look at the average assists per game,LBJ is still higher for any not PG of all-time

What is your definition of an all around player then?

[MavsDirk41]

And like how Dirk choked in the first round in 2007 against the 8th seeded Warriors.

He redeemed himself in 2011, spent two decades with the Mavs, and never crawled away to team up with other superstar players to form a superteam. I would take his 2011 championship over any other.

There's no such thing as redemption for a 67 win team (best record in the league) who loses in the first round to a 42 win 8 seed.

Your opinion, i disagree. He outplayed two HOF players in their prime in that finals

[dolphinatik]

If in only limited to the poll players then Pippen leads this list.

[brackdan70]

Need to include the best impact players for a poll.
Lock this and redo it. Jordan, James, Russell, Hakeem etc.

[Iwasawitness]

By all around, I mean triple double threat: a guy who does a bit of everything. Lebron has been more of a prolific scorer than an all around player; it's hard to classify, but I just don't see him as an all around player like Kidd, Magic, Doncic, etc.

I'm open to a debate on this subject matter.

Sadly I think you've lose the plot on this one my man... While I'm a Bron hater with a passion as much as "One and Done" Is on Kobe I'm with Bron, But Bron Is an all round player his a stat pad master - and I'm saying that with as hatred passion for him - I admit It I hate Bron, But his good at what he does. I'd still choose Bird and his Celtics over any of Bron's super teams though.

I understand your point. He can do everything: assist, score, rebound, defense, walk on water, etc., but he's only had one great year as the primary facilitator when the Lakers won the championship at Disney World. He averaged 10.2 assists, but for the most part, he's been a 30 point 6 assist guy. Those are Kobe, Shai, Curry, Jordan numbers, so he belongs in that tier. Trust me, that's the tier he wants to be in. All-around guys are a tier below those guys. It's not a diss on Lebron calling him a prolific scorer.

I honestly don't know what your purpose was making this thread. Was it to just troll LeBron fans? Was it to lie for fun? I can remember a thread that asked what was the most disappointing finals performance of all time and for a stupid reason, it left LeBron's 2011 performance off even though that was the clear answer. Now in this case, you're doing the exact same thing on the opposite spectrum. LeBron is the greatest all around player. Bird is the only person who really comes close.

I've always said that if someone's reasoning for doing something doesn't make sense or is false, then what they're doing probably doesn't make sense either. In this case, at least going by your logic, it supports my theory. LeBron has for the most part been a 30 point and 6 assist guy? He's averaged over 7 APG for more than half of his career. In fact, I actually decided to do the math. He's only averaged less than that in eight seasons. For a 20 year career, your math isn't mathing. It's made worse by the fact that he's only averaged 30 PPG three times.

It's best you stop trying to defend your position. You'll only make things worse for yourself.

He's only had one season where he's the primary facilitator. I agree he's a great all around player, but compare to guys like Doncic, Jokic, and Kidd? Please. He's more of a scorer, so he belongs in the MJ, Kobe, Curry category. How am I trolling when that is the most legit category?

How can you sit here and ask "how am I trolling" right after saying the bolded? How is this thread still open?

[Homer38]

He redeemed himself in 2011, spent two decades with the Mavs, and never crawled away to team up with other superstar players to form a superteam. I would take his 2011 championship over any other.

LeBron redeemed himself so many time too

Lebron teamed up with Wade and Bosh in Miami

Went to Cleveland with a 22 year old all star player in Irving, and im sure he was aware that they would trade their draft pick for another all star player which they did

Went to LA and helped orchestrate the Davis trade

Dirk never demanded that Cuban trade for another all star player and he never bailed

Not even close to being the same situation if comparing the two

You have better chance to have great sucess in the long run to be drafted by a big market team with a strong front office that being drafted by a small market team with a poor front office who let a young player like Boozer leave after the rookie year of LBJ.Even if you leave that team after 7 years,this is not a advantage compared at the other who was in a great situation from the start.Some other teams tried that but it was a huge failure(Suns,Nets,Clippers just in the last 5 years)

LeBron went back to Cleveland and went to LA after that, it was because of the location....Only LBJ can go to a team that had a losing record for years and the haters say that team was loaded after that....Yeah,so unfair when LBJ has some help but when some players is in a great situation from the start and he has no reason to leave,this is fair....Make no sense

[Homer38]

He redeemed himself in 2011, spent two decades with the Mavs, and never crawled away to team up with other superstar players to form a superteam. I would take his 2011 championship over any other.

There's no such thing as redemption for a 67 win team (best record in the league) who loses in the first round to a 42 win 8 seed.

Your opinion, i disagree. He outplayed two HOF players in their prime in that finals

Dirk and the mavs had also a major choke job vs Miami in 2006.

[Lo Wang]

Sadly I think you've lose the plot on this one my man... While I'm a Bron hater with a passion as much as "One and Done" Is on Kobe I'm with Bron, But Bron Is an all round player his a stat pad master - and I'm saying that with as hatred passion for him - I admit It I hate Bron, But his good at what he does. I'd still choose Bird and his Celtics over any of Bron's super teams though.

I understand your point. He can do everything: assist, score, rebound, defense, walk on water, etc., but he's only had one great year as the primary facilitator when the Lakers won the championship at Disney World. He averaged 10.2 assists, but for the most part, he's been a 30 point 6 assist guy. Those are Kobe, Shai, Curry, Jordan numbers, so he belongs in that tier. Trust me, that's the tier he wants to be in. All-around guys are a tier below those guys. It's not a diss on Lebron calling him a prolific scorer.

I honestly don't know what your purpose was making this thread. Was it to just troll LeBron fans? Was it to lie for fun? I can remember a thread that asked what was the most disappointing finals performance of all time and for a stupid reason, it left LeBron's 2011 performance off even though that was the clear answer. Now in this case, you're doing the exact same thing on the opposite spectrum. LeBron is the greatest all around player. Bird is the only person who really comes close.

I've always said that if someone's reasoning for doing something doesn't make sense or is false, then what they're doing probably doesn't make sense either. In this case, at least going by your logic, it supports my theory. LeBron has for the most part been a 30 point and 6 assist guy? He's averaged over 7 APG for more than half of his career. In fact, I actually decided to do the math. He's only averaged less than that in eight seasons. For a 20 year career, your math isn't mathing. It's made worse by the fact that he's only averaged 30 PPG three times.

It's best you stop trying to defend your position. You'll only make things worse for yourself.

He's only had one season where he's the primary facilitator. I agree he's a great all around player, but compare to guys like Doncic, Jokic, and Kidd? Please. He's more of a scorer, so he belongs in the MJ, Kobe, Curry category. How am I trolling when that is the most legit category?

How can you sit here and ask "how am I trolling" right after saying the bolded? How is this thread still open?

Please.

I was off 1 assist point. Lebron, to me, is on the tier of MJ, Kobe, Curry, etc. How am I hating when I rank him higher than anybody on the list in this thread?

If you want to have a legit debate, define what an all around player is. Otherwise, we're just going to compare how big our private parts are and sound like a bunch of idiots.

[Homer38]

One of my criteria is to omit records. If he plays longer than all those players, then it goes to reason he will have more assists, but to claim his passing is the equivalent of Kidd or Magic is just being disingenuous. Magic stopped playing in his early 30s; Lebron is still playing close to 40. Claiming he has a record number of assist doesn't mean jack squat. It just means he's an old fart who played longer than anybody on that list

If you look at the average assists per game,LBJ is still higher for any not PG of all-time

What is your definition of an all around player then?

everything...scoring,playmaker,defense,etc

[Hair Jordan]

Only 5 of the guys you listed have higher career assists per game average than LeBron.

In fact, LeBron is 26th all time in assists per game - the highest for a non-guard. The only other top 50 non guards are Jokic (33rd) and Bird (50th).

One of my criteria is to omit records. If he plays longer than all those players, then it goes to reason he will have more assists, but to claim his passing is the equivalent of Kidd or Magic is just being disingenuous. Magic stopped playing in his early 30s; Lebron is still playing close to 40. Claiming he has a record number of assist doesn't mean jack squat. It just means he's an old fart who played longer than anybody on that list

If you look at the average assists per game,LBJ is still higher for any not PG of all-time

That’s because his APG totals have been cooked for his entire career. He’s credited with 2-3 phantom assists almost every game. His career average should be closer to 5 APG instead of 7+. Lebron would get credited for an assist if he inbounded the ball to a teammate who sank a full court heave two seconds before the halftime buzzer.

[Lo Wang]

If you look at the average assists per game,LBJ is still higher for any not PG of all-time

What is your definition of an all around player then?

everything...scoring,playmaker,defense,etc

Thank you for providing a definition, but if you say everything, then doesn't Draymond do more than Lebron? Dude is willing to hit a few nutsacks for the team.

I disagree with this definition.

[Homer38]

One of my criteria is to omit records. If he plays longer than all those players, then it goes to reason he will have more assists, but to claim his passing is the equivalent of Kidd or Magic is just being disingenuous. Magic stopped playing in his early 30s; Lebron is still playing close to 40. Claiming he has a record number of assist doesn't mean jack squat. It just means he's an old fart who played longer than anybody on that list

If you look at the average assists per game,LBJ is still higher for any not PG of all-time

That’s because his APG totals have been cooked for his entire career. He’s credited with 2-3 phantom assists almost every game. His career average should be closer to 5 APG instead of 7+. Lebron would get credited for an assist if he inbounded the ball to a teammate who sank a full court heave two seconds before the halftime buzzer.

wtf...His assist per game are the same at home that on the road in his career.....This is not like the steal split home vs road of Jordan in 1988,the reason why he won the DPOY