Monitoring the Trade: Rob Dillingham for Jakob Poeltl

[Merit]

I’m not high on Dillingham. Didn’t like his disappearing act in the tournament at key moments. Wasn’t able to put enough pressure on the paint off the dribble when he faced NBA level athleticism. I see a backup PG…maybe a starter who is there to play some D and take open jumpers, set up plays, etc. Nothing dynamic.

Clingan would have been a nice fit for us.

I think Matas is a future all-star and probably ends up being better than the top two picks in this draft.

I think Chomche ends up being a top 10 player from this draft but it’ll take four years to get there.

Wow you’re really high on Matas and Chomche!

Somehow I am unsure about matas. He feels like a Giddey clone to me. Lots of room to grow though!

[Merit]

I disagree with the whole premise of the thread. So much changed from when the trade was originally made. It’s like pretending you knew the future would happen when the trade was made. It’s very difficult for anyone to claim it would’ve played out the way it did with absolute certainty. Every trade is a risk. Heck in an alternate timeline maybe the raps keep their pick!

That applies equally to the OG and Pascal trades too. NYK was willing to take the risk that RJ and IQ would become amazing because OG on their team was worth it to them. Similarly, Masai got salary flexibility instead of youth from Indiana. Was that the right call? We shall see.

[mihaic]

I disagree with the whole premise of the thread. So much changed from when the trade was originally made. It’s like pretending you knew the future would happen when the trade was made. Nobody could’ve known it would’ve played out the way it did.

They try to find a way to complain about management.

This fanbase deserves Colangelo back. Or worse, a Babcock type.

Edit: But don't worry, a new thread will be created if/when Dillingham sucks, then it will be assessed against the Minnesota 1st (regardless of the fact we would not have drafted Dillingham, nor traded to Minnie).

[Merit]

I disagree with the whole premise of the thread. So much changed from when the trade was originally made. It’s like pretending you knew the future would happen when the trade was made. Nobody could’ve known it would’ve played out the way it did.

They try to find a way to complain about management.

This fanbase deserves Colangelo back. Or worse, a Babcock type.

For the good ones who cheer for the Raps: I hope we never get a Babcock (RIP) type again.

[mihaic]

I’m not high on Dillingham. Didn’t like his disappearing act in the tournament at key moments. Wasn’t able to put enough pressure on the paint off the dribble when he faced NBA level athleticism. I see a backup PG…maybe a starter who is there to play some D and take open jumpers, set up plays, etc. Nothing dynamic.

Clingan would have been a nice fit for us.

I think Matas is a future all-star and probably ends up being better than the top two picks in this draft.

I think Chomche ends up being a top 10 player from this draft but it’ll take four years to get there.

Wow you’re really high on Matas and Chomche!

Somehow I am unsure about matas. He feels like a Giddey clone to me. Lots of room to grow though!

Personally I am asao high on Chomche's potential (not on his current stage though). I think he has the highest ceiling, but there's a very long road till that ceiling; and most likely the road is a dead end.

[mihaic]

I’m not high on Dillingham. Didn’t like his disappearing act in the tournament at key moments. Wasn’t able to put enough pressure on the paint off the dribble when he faced NBA level athleticism. I see a backup PG…maybe a starter who is there to play some D and take open jumpers, set up plays, etc. Nothing dynamic.

Clingan would have been a nice fit for us.

I think Matas is a future all-star and probably ends up being better than the top two picks in this draft.

I think Chomche ends up being a top 10 player from this draft but it’ll take four years to get there.

There is a 25% chance, imo, that Shead will fare equal or better to Dillingham

[Harry Palmer]

Check my sig.

[DreamTeam09]

The only 2 ppl I really like from 9-19 where I'm like, we missed out on em are Matas & Ware, and I was back n forth on him all the way to like a couple days pre draft.
I think the value is perfectly fine considering the weak draft. Glad it was this year & I changed my viewpoint on that too

[Scase]

what is the point of this? To show that not-everything-will-go-your-way? only the irrationals can pretend from the moment of the trade they 'knew' that the pick would be a top10, only the irrationals.

Where is the Keldon Johnson one? He did average 20+ a couple of seasons ago.

I'm sure you'll keep this same energy if one of the trades turns out to be a real hit right? Like if RJ blows up, I'm sure you won't be parading around saying how it was known all along and Masai planned this, or if some random pick from the Siakam trade turns out to be a steal, right?

Just making sure we aren't cherry picking here, since that never happens.

Evaluating players received in trade is the reason why people are crapping on the Poeltl trade. They don’t feel he’s worth the first in this draft.

If they give Masai his justified props for other trades working out, they’re not cherry picking. They’re being objective. They don’t like one trade but they like another.

Masai is responsible for all trades. What we don’t factor in is the players picked at xyz spot. There’s a range. Masai might’ve picked a better player or a worse one. Since he will never get to make the pick we will never know.

This is different than picking Hoffa over Iggy. That actually happened.

Except the people "crapping" on the jak trade, and the people big upping masai on successful trades, are a venn diagram that is just 2 circles. Rarely do you see the folks defending him acknowledge the bad trades, but rather they just make excuses and move the goal posts.

For instance :

what is the point of this? To show that not-everything-will-go-your-way? only the irrationals can pretend from the moment of the trade they 'knew' that the pick would be a top10, only the irrationals.

So when something goes wrong it's washed away with "well some times **** happens", but when something good comes along it's "See I told you so/he's a genius" etc. If people could easily state things like, "The OG trade was good, the Jak and Siakam trades were bad", I'm sure most would be fine about that. But it's the blatant tribalism that makes this stuff almost impossible to discuss.

So many people defending people/players, instead of trying to talk about what is best for the team.

People were against this trade the day it happened, and this is just showcasing more why it was a bad trade.

[HiJiNX]

I’m not high on Dillingham. Didn’t like his disappearing act in the tournament at key moments. Wasn’t able to put enough pressure on the paint off the dribble when he faced NBA level athleticism. I see a backup PG…maybe a starter who is there to play some D and take open jumpers, set up plays, etc. Nothing dynamic.

Clingan would have been a nice fit for us.

I think Matas is a future all-star and probably ends up being better than the top two picks in this draft.

I think Chomche ends up being a top 10 player from this draft but it’ll take four years to get there.

Wow you’re really high on Matas and Chomche!

Somehow I am unsure about matas. He feels like a Giddey clone to me. Lots of room to grow though!

Yeah Matas has size, skill, feel, athleticism, and the attitude. I’m pretty high on him.

Chomche less so but I have faith. He’s a mature and smart kid who seems to really want it and he’s a tremendous athlete.

[PerfectJab]

I don't get the point of beating a dead horse.

The point of this thread is to put emphasis on the fact that it was a bad and shortsighted trade which most of us already agree on.

Digging deeper it has more to do with being unsatisfied with Masai but it makes the situation more depressing than anything else as it's been talked about already, there is a general consensus on it, and there is a point where talking about it doesn't bring anything new to the discussion. It's like running out of things to talk about as to why Masai sucks as an executive by extending the lineage of a mistake into hypothetical situations.

What if''s are the worse things to talk about in sports as it doesn't represent reality.

What if Cleveland had drafted Michael Jordan?
What if there were no draft restrictions on expansion teams?
What if Charlotte had kept their Kobe pick?

For all we know the Raptors FO might have drafted another Bruno with their pick had they not made the trade.

It's just so pointless...

[Scase]

I don't get the point of beating a dead horse.

The point of this thread is to put emphasis on the fact that it was a bad and shortsighted trade which most of us already agree on.

Digging deeper it has more to do with being unsatisfied with Masai but it makes the situation more depressing than anything else as it's been talked about already, there is a general consensus on it, and there is a point where talking about it doesn't bring anything new to the discussion. It's like running out of things to talk about as to why Masai sucks as an executive by extending the lineage of a mistake into hypothetical situations.

What if''s are the worse things to talk about in sports as it doesn't represent reality.

What if Cleveland had drafted Michael Jordan?
What if there were no draft restrictions on expansion teams?
What if Charlotte had kept their Kobe pick?

For all we know the Raptors FO might have drafted another Bruno with their pick had they not made the trade.

It's just so pointless...

It's kinda funny you say this, because it's clearly aimed at people who think it was a bad trade. Yet, the person who made the thread is a massive Jak/Masai defender and constantly talks about how good the trade was. For instance :

Poeltl trade was not a mistake - how much evidence do you need? Did you watch this team with and without Poeltl? He's a top ten centre - more like this board can never admit that it is wrong. Hasn't been able to do so dating back to 2014 when TWO was unfortunately born.

So it would seem you are putting the blame on the wrong people.

[duppyy]

I keep hearing Purtle is a top 10 center, is he really? I don’t see it.

He was surpassed by two rookies already (Chet and Wemby) and will probably be surpassed by Edey too.

[Tacoma]

I don't get the point of beating a dead horse.

The point of this thread is to put emphasis on the fact that it was a bad and shortsighted trade which most of us already agree on.

Digging deeper it has more to do with being unsatisfied with Masai but it makes the situation more depressing than anything else as it's been talked about already, there is a general consensus on it, and there is a point where talking about it doesn't bring anything new to the discussion. It's like running out of things to talk about as to why Masai sucks as an executive by extending the lineage of a mistake into hypothetical situations.

What if''s are the worse things to talk about in sports as it doesn't represent reality.

What if Cleveland had drafted Michael Jordan?
What if there were no draft restrictions on expansion teams?
What if Charlotte had kept their Kobe pick?

For all we know the Raptors FO might have drafted another Bruno with their pick had they not made the trade.

It's just so pointless...

I don't understand a post whose point is to attack another poster saying what he wants to discuss is pointless. If you don't care for this topic, then just ignore the thread.

And it's not a "dead horse" like in your MJ/Kobe examples, since the trade was for a draft pick in a draft that just happened about 4 weeks ago, a pick that just a few months ago we tanked hard to try to keep. Also the OP who started this thread is not known to be a FO hater, so it's not likely he did this to "put emphasis" on a bad trade.

On topic, I'd like to believe that Masai, had we kept the pick, would have Zack Edey. He's got potential, a Canadian who fills a need on this team.

[ciueli]

The bigger issue for me is that Masai likely could have undone the deal by trading Jak to Memphis for the 9th pick in the draft (there were rumours about them shopping the pick for a big man).

If we really were rebuilding this is a move that would have made a lot of sense, maybe the asking price was too high, but I doubt it, I think Buzelis would have been a nice player to slot in at the SF position for the future, Jak has an opt out in 2 years and may wish to go elsewhere, he should have been traded.

So bad enough that the deal was done in the first place, but when you have the opportunity to undo the deal in a rebuilding situation and you don't, that's just doubling down on failure.

[Duffman100]

The bigger issue for me is that Masai likely could have undone the deal by trading Jak to Memphis for the 9th pick in the draft (there were rumours about them shopping the pick for a big man).

If we really were rebuilding this is a move that would have made a lot of sense, maybe the asking price was too high, but I doubt it, I think Buzelis would have been a nice player to slot in at the SF position for the future, Jak has an opt out in 2 years and may wish to go elsewhere, he should have been traded.

So bad enough that the deal was done in the first place, but when you have the opportunity to undo the deal in a rebuilding situation and you don't, that's just doubling down on failure.

This doesn't seem to make sense.

Why would Memphis trade the 9 for Poeltl when they knew it was likely they could get a big prospect (Edey or Clingan) at the 9?

I like Poeltl. But 19.5 of Poeltl for 3 years or a rookie deal center. Feels like you're creating a situation that doesn't exist to just be outraged

[binjumper]

The bigger issue for me is that Masai likely could have undone the deal by trading Jak to Memphis for the 9th pick in the draft (there were rumours about them shopping the pick for a big man).

If we really were rebuilding this is a move that would have made a lot of sense, maybe the asking price was too high, but I doubt it, I think Buzelis would have been a nice player to slot in at the SF position for the future, Jak has an opt out in 2 years and may wish to go elsewhere, he should have been traded.

So bad enough that the deal was done in the first place, but when you have the opportunity to undo the deal in a rebuilding situation and you don't, that's just doubling down on failure.

This doesn't seem to make sense.

Why would Memphis trade the 9 for Poeltl when they knew it was likely they could get a big prospect (Edey or Clingan) at the 9?

I like Poeltl. But 19.5 of Poeltl for 3 years or a rookie deal center. Feels like you're creating a situation that doesn't exist to just be outraged

whatever helps them sleep at night

[mademan]

The bigger issue for me is that Masai likely could have undone the deal by trading Jak to Memphis for the 9th pick in the draft (there were rumours about them shopping the pick for a big man).

If we really were rebuilding this is a move that would have made a lot of sense, maybe the asking price was too high, but I doubt it, I think Buzelis would have been a nice player to slot in at the SF position for the future, Jak has an opt out in 2 years and may wish to go elsewhere, he should have been traded.

So bad enough that the deal was done in the first place, but when you have the opportunity to undo the deal in a rebuilding situation and you don't, that's just doubling down on failure.

This doesn't seem to make sense.

Why would Memphis trade the 9 for Poeltl when they knew it was likely they could get a big prospect (Edey or Clingan) at the 9?

I like Poeltl. But 19.5 of Poeltl for 3 years or a rookie deal center. Feels like you're creating a situation that doesn't exist to just be outraged

+1. There may be a Poeltl trade out there for a 1st rounder, but its not gonna be a lotto pick. And even then, its hard to find the landing spot for him. He's an average starting C making 20mill/year. Not overpaid but also not a bargain and there really isnt a big market for C's.

[Scase]

The bigger issue for me is that Masai likely could have undone the deal by trading Jak to Memphis for the 9th pick in the draft (there were rumours about them shopping the pick for a big man).

If we really were rebuilding this is a move that would have made a lot of sense, maybe the asking price was too high, but I doubt it, I think Buzelis would have been a nice player to slot in at the SF position for the future, Jak has an opt out in 2 years and may wish to go elsewhere, he should have been traded.

So bad enough that the deal was done in the first place, but when you have the opportunity to undo the deal in a rebuilding situation and you don't, that's just doubling down on failure.

This doesn't seem to make sense.

Why would Memphis trade the 9 for Poeltl when they knew it was likely they could get a big prospect (Edey or Clingan) at the 9?

I like Poeltl. But 19.5 of Poeltl for 3 years or a rookie deal center. Feels like you're creating a situation that doesn't exist to just be outraged

+1. There may be a Poeltl trade out there for a 1st rounder, but its not gonna be a lotto pick. And even then, its hard to find the landing spot for him. He's an average starting C making 20mill/year. Not overpaid but also not a bargain and there really isnt a big market for C's.

Wouldn't this mean that Jak isn't even worth a lotto pick in a historically bad draft? The exact same pick that everyone and their mother kept saying he was worth more than?

[mademan]

This doesn't seem to make sense.

Why would Memphis trade the 9 for Poeltl when they knew it was likely they could get a big prospect (Edey or Clingan) at the 9?

I like Poeltl. But 19.5 of Poeltl for 3 years or a rookie deal center. Feels like you're creating a situation that doesn't exist to just be outraged

+1. There may be a Poeltl trade out there for a 1st rounder, but its not gonna be a lotto pick. And even then, its hard to find the landing spot for him. He's an average starting C making 20mill/year. Not overpaid but also not a bargain and there really isnt a big market for C's.

Wouldn't this mean that Jak isn't even worth a lotto pick in a historically bad draft? The exact same pick that everyone and their mother kept saying he was worth more than?

Ya it was a bad deal. It was bad when it was completed and aged worse when it ended it becoming a lotto pick. It is what it is, time to move on.