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The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2

Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez

Assuming this is the last major addition, are you more excited than you were last offseason?

Yes
29
64%
No
1
2%
About the same
15
33%
 
Total votes: 45

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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1821 » by garrick » Mon Aug 5, 2024 12:33 am

Qwigglez wrote:
garrick wrote:
Puff wrote:
I am not a fan of Royce. I think he most likely will be moved at the trade deadline or sooner.

If and I know it is a big if, Dunn is able to shoot 30% + from three while providing the defense as advertised Royce will not be needed. Maybe Little will show a heartbeat with the new coach. I just am not a fan of Royce. He does not belong in the starting line up.


Royce is pretty much Jae Crowder pt.2 for us, offense is purely from 3pt land and he struggles to score anywhere besides the 3pt line.

Can't really finish near the rim either so if we can find a way to ship him out and improve the front line I think we have to do it. Not really a fan of how small we are despite upgrading at the PG spot and teams will continue to punish us by playing big and physical.


I'm not seeing anyone who makes less than or equal money to Royce O'Neal that would be an upgrade. I think Royce O'Neal is about the best bang for your buck as the Suns can hope for with his given salary.


Indeed and that is a problem when you're also starting a Center in Nurkic who is historically a horrific finisher around the rim as well.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1822 » by bigfoot » Mon Aug 5, 2024 4:13 am

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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1823 » by Qwigglez » Mon Aug 5, 2024 5:22 am

bigfoot wrote:Top 3 defensive center
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-defensive-rating-centers-2024

Number 1 TRB percentage for all players
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-rebounder-percentage-in-nba-2024

Number 5 plus minus for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-plus-minus-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 3 in steals for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-steals-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 5 in assists for centers
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2387953&start=1820

Number 6 in block percentage for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-block-percentage-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 5 in rebounds per game for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-rebounders-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 16 highest paid center next year.

People whining about nothing.


Biggest issue for me...
2nd worst plus minus for centers in the playoffs.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-plus-minus-for-centers-in-2024-playoffs

6th worst defensive rating for centers in the playoffs (Eubanks at No 1 is not at all surprising).
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-defensive-rating-for-centers-in-2024-playoffs

But really you could cherry pick stats all day and find the worst and best things for every player I feel like.

6th worst FG% for centers in 2024.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=worst+fg%25+for+centers+in+2024

Worst turnover% for centers. Also, top 5 in turnovers for a center, and considering he has such a low USG% compared to the other top 5 centers on the list says something about his decision making.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=worst+turnover%25+for+centers+in+2024
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-turnovers-for-centers-in-2024
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1824 » by Mulhollanddrive » Mon Aug 5, 2024 7:16 am

Budenholzer turn Nurkic and Bol into Lopez and Portis
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1825 » by Puff » Mon Aug 5, 2024 9:47 am

bigfoot wrote:Top 3 defensive center
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-defensive-rating-centers-2024

Number 1 TRB percentage for all players
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-rebounder-percentage-in-nba-2024

Number 5 plus minus for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-plus-minus-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 3 in steals for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-steals-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 5 in assists for centers
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2387953&start=1820



Number 6 in block percentage for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-block-percentage-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 5 in rebounds per game for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-rebounders-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 16 highest paid center next year.

People whining about nothing.


Great post - I really like Nurkic but I certainly did not like his play against Minnesota but he had plenty of company.

Folks seem to be complaining about him practicing shooting threes during the off season. Well, if you look at his stats he virtually did not shoot any threes during his first 6 years in the league. He only started hoisting them in 2020/2021. After that he had a year at .400 and one at .361. He regressed last year but started out the season shooting pretty well as I remember. That is when he was one of our many point guards due to not having a legit PG. I can see him getting back to those years he shot 36 and 40% from three. He also appears to have lost some weight so he should be quicker and more agile on defense. He is a willing defender, and I like him as a teammate. I think the addition of 2-point guards will be good for everyone, but Nurk might benefit the most.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1826 » by mkot » Mon Aug 5, 2024 10:09 am

Qwigglez wrote:If Nurkic can get his 3PT % back up to 36% like he did in the 22-23 season with the Blazers, that would be such a game changer for the offense. Brook Lopez took about 40% of his FGs beyond the 3PT line, so it would be huge in terms of floor spacing for Book and KD if Nurkic could play a similar role.


I thought the same. He is so garbage around the rim anyway so why not. If he is open, which he does often, I don't mind him taking it 3-5 a game.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1827 » by ChuckS » Mon Aug 5, 2024 11:12 am

Qwigglez wrote:
bigfoot wrote:Top 3 defensive center
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-defensive-rating-centers-2024

Number 1 TRB percentage for all players
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-rebounder-percentage-in-nba-2024

Number 5 plus minus for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-plus-minus-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 3 in steals for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-steals-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 5 in assists for centers
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2387953&start=1820

Number 6 in block percentage for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-block-percentage-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 5 in rebounds per game for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-rebounders-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 16 highest paid center next year.

People whining about nothing.


Biggest issue for me...
2nd worst plus minus for centers in the playoffs.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-plus-minus-for-centers-in-2024-playoffs

6th worst defensive rating for centers in the playoffs (Eubanks at No 1 is not at all surprising).
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-defensive-rating-for-centers-in-2024-playoffs

But really you could cherry pick stats all day and find the worst and best things for every player I feel like.

6th worst FG% for centers in 2024.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=worst+fg%25+for+centers+in+2024

Worst turnover% for centers. Also, top 5 in turnovers for a center, and considering he has such a low USG% compared to the other top 5 centers on the list says something about his decision making.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=worst+turnover%25+for+centers+in+2024
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-turnovers-for-centers-in-2024



I try not to post often because I lack the depth and breadth of knowledge of the Suns evidenced by most on this board. But these two posts were fantastic in providing valid reasons for conflicting viewpoints. I'll also admit that I am strongly on the pro-Nurkic side of the argument. This is primarily because I've felt since watching that the team was much better with Jusuf on the floor -- but also considering the stats. I would just like to add minor context to the discussion.

The 82 game performance of a team that was eighth best in the league is being weighed against (IMO) a questionable (small) four game playoff sample of losses by an average of 15 PPG. In the larger sample size Nurkic had the substantial team best on court, off court, and net positive. Some months ago when I looked into the playoff numbers, for the four games, all our plus minus numbers were minus because of the 60 point losing differential. But among that negativity Jusuf had the lst, 2d, and twice third best in the team's four losses. Because of the overall team performance, I suggest the individual numbers could be skewed when compared to those of the more winning playoff teams.

Another thing herein that impressed me was:

Number sixteen highest paid center next year.


Nurkic's numbers were nominally down, but he still finished 2d to Gobert (I think) in his forte, rebounding. He was alone, if you don't count Eubanks, against $103 million dollars of centers, and on an infinitely smaller team. I was encouraged by the addition of Plumlee, but am yet uncertain Bol or the newbies can improve the PF depth. In any event I think that the Suns got their money's worth with Nurkic.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1828 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Mon Aug 5, 2024 1:54 pm

ChuckS wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:
bigfoot wrote:Top 3 defensive center
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-defensive-rating-centers-2024

Number 1 TRB percentage for all players
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-rebounder-percentage-in-nba-2024

Number 5 plus minus for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-plus-minus-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 3 in steals for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-steals-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 5 in assists for centers
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2387953&start=1820

Number 6 in block percentage for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-block-percentage-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 5 in rebounds per game for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-rebounders-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 16 highest paid center next year.

People whining about nothing.


Biggest issue for me...
2nd worst plus minus for centers in the playoffs.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-plus-minus-for-centers-in-2024-playoffs

6th worst defensive rating for centers in the playoffs (Eubanks at No 1 is not at all surprising).
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-defensive-rating-for-centers-in-2024-playoffs

But really you could cherry pick stats all day and find the worst and best things for every player I feel like.

6th worst FG% for centers in 2024.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=worst+fg%25+for+centers+in+2024

Worst turnover% for centers. Also, top 5 in turnovers for a center, and considering he has such a low USG% compared to the other top 5 centers on the list says something about his decision making.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=worst+turnover%25+for+centers+in+2024
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-turnovers-for-centers-in-2024



I try not to post often because I lack the depth and breadth of knowledge of the Suns evidenced by most on this board. But these two post were fantastic in providing valid reasons for conflicting viewpoints. I'll also admit that I am strongly on the pro-Nurkic side of the argument. This is primarily because I've felt since watching that the team was much better with Jusuf on the floor -- but also considering the stats. I would just like to add minor context to the discussion.

The 82 game performance of a team that was eighth best in the league is being weighed against (IMO) a questionable (small) four game playoff sample of losses by an average of 15 PPG per. In the larger sample size Nurkic had the substantial team best on court, off court, and net positive. Some months ago when I looked into the playoff numbers, for the four games, all our plus minus numbers were minus because of the 60 point losing differential. But among that negativity Jusuf had the lst, 2d, and twice third best in the team's four losses. Because of the overall team performance, I suggest the individual numbers could be skewed when compared to those of the more winning playoff teams.

Another thing herein that impressed me was:

Number sixteen highest paid center next year.


Nurkic's numbers were nominally down, but he still finished 2d to Gobert (I think) in his forte, rebounding. He was alone, if you don't count Eubanks, against $103 million dollars of centers, and on an infinitely smaller team. I was encouraged by the addition of Plumlee, but am yet uncertain Bol or the newbies can improve the PF depth. In any event I think that the Suns got their money's worth with Nurkic.


I remember thinking that Rubio was our best player overall in 19-20, but he was getting a lot of hate from fans for not being a shooter. Last year, I thought Nurk was our 3rd best player overall. Advanced stats have Allen ahead by a hair. The most critical thing was Nurk played all but6 games! last year. Whatever the playoff numbers are, they matter less to me because of sample size.

Nurk losing some weight and focusing on that 3 ball is, to me, the 3rd most encouraging thing about this offseason behind adding Tyus Jones and re-signing Bol Bol.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1829 » by bigfoot » Mon Aug 5, 2024 5:50 pm

It's good folks are weighing in on the positive of Nurk. Too many posters were slamming him. I too thought he brought a lot to the team. Nice that his net +/- was the top 3 in the small playoff sample which tells you it was nearly everyone else who stunk it up. Mostly I blame Vogel.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1830 » by sunsbum » Mon Aug 5, 2024 6:19 pm

ChuckS wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:
bigfoot wrote:Top 3 defensive center
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-defensive-rating-centers-2024

Number 1 TRB percentage for all players
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-rebounder-percentage-in-nba-2024

Number 5 plus minus for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-plus-minus-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 3 in steals for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-steals-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 5 in assists for centers
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2387953&start=1820

Number 6 in block percentage for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-block-percentage-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 5 in rebounds per game for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-rebounders-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 16 highest paid center next year.

People whining about nothing.


Biggest issue for me...
2nd worst plus minus for centers in the playoffs.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-plus-minus-for-centers-in-2024-playoffs

6th worst defensive rating for centers in the playoffs (Eubanks at No 1 is not at all surprising).
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-defensive-rating-for-centers-in-2024-playoffs

But really you could cherry pick stats all day and find the worst and best things for every player I feel like.

6th worst FG% for centers in 2024.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=worst+fg%25+for+centers+in+2024

Worst turnover% for centers. Also, top 5 in turnovers for a center, and considering he has such a low USG% compared to the other top 5 centers on the list says something about his decision making.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=worst+turnover%25+for+centers+in+2024
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-turnovers-for-centers-in-2024



I try not to post often because I lack the depth and breadth of knowledge of the Suns evidenced by most on this board. But these two post were fantastic in providing valid reasons for conflicting viewpoints. I'll also admit that I am strongly on the pro-Nurkic side of the argument. This is primarily because I've felt since watching that the team was much better with Jusuf on the floor -- but also considering the stats. I would just like to add minor context to the discussion.

The 82 game performance of a team that was eighth best in the league is being weighed against (IMO) a questionable (small) four game playoff sample of losses by an average of 15 PPG per. In the larger sample size Nurkic had the substantial team best on court, off court, and net positive. Some months ago when I looked into the playoff numbers, for the four games, all our plus minus numbers were minus because of the 60 point losing differential. But among that negativity Jusuf had the lst, 2d, and twice third best in the team's four losses. Because of the overall team performance, I suggest the individual numbers could be skewed when compared to those of the more winning playoff teams.

Another thing herein that impressed me was:

Number sixteen highest paid center next year.


Nurkic's numbers were nominally down, but he still finished 2d to Gobert (I think) in his forte, rebounding. He was alone, if you don't count Eubanks, against $103 million dollars of centers, and on an infinitely smaller team. I was encouraged by the addition of Plumlee, but am yet uncertain Bol or the newbies can improve the PF depth. In any event I think that the Suns got their money's worth with Nurkic.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1831 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Aug 5, 2024 11:39 pm

bigfoot wrote:Top 3 defensive center
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-defensive-rating-centers-2024

Number 1 TRB percentage for all players
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-rebounder-percentage-in-nba-2024

Number 5 plus minus for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-plus-minus-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 3 in steals for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-steals-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 5 in assists for centers
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2387953&start=1820

Number 6 in block percentage for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-block-percentage-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 5 in rebounds per game for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-rebounders-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 16 highest paid center next year.

People whining about nothing.

My feeling is that Nurkic is underrated and underappreciated defensively because one particular aspect of his defense isn't good (defending in space). It's the same type of critic levied against Gobert when clips of him getting torched in the playoffs on the perimeter goes viral and then casuals discount or completely disregard all the other elite stuff he does defensively. Nurkic isn't as good defensively and he has flaws but to suggest he's a dud defensively because he can't defend in space is throwing the baby out with the bath water.

To me Nurk is Nurk. He's flawed like basically every other player out there in some way or another but overall, he's a positive for this team and he's far from our biggest issue in the playoffs last season.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1832 » by Mulhollanddrive » Tue Aug 6, 2024 2:31 am

Deep drop coverage should suit Nurkic.

Now we have Jones and Morris who are smaller to chase over screens that scheme could be good.

Plus it allows Nurkic to stay close to rebound unlike switching when Ayton use to be pulled to the perimeter and we couldn't rebound, that's worth a decent amount off their points per posession.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1833 » by Blonde » Tue Aug 6, 2024 2:55 am

Nurk is absolutely fine as a regular season center for at least this next season. He played his role well even though we asked him to do a bit too much last season. Defense was surprisingly good. His usage should be lower this year so the turnovers and poor finishing won’t be such an issue. That said I’d be looking hard for his replacement (maybe Oso could be that one day).
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1834 » by Bogyo » Tue Aug 6, 2024 5:14 am

Book out there with Suni, with a smile bigger than after his 50pt games... much better choice than any Kardashian ;)
# waiting for the next chapter
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1835 » by Mr Puddles » Tue Aug 6, 2024 8:10 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Budenholzer turn Nurkic and Bol into Lopez and Portis Giannis
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1836 » by Frank Lee » Tue Aug 6, 2024 12:23 pm

Bang on Nurk all you want… hes a far cry from the little girl mentality of DeAndre ‘They’ton

This strength of this team is offense. The D will be average at best.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1837 » by flagstaff » Tue Aug 6, 2024 1:57 pm

Frank Lee wrote:Bang on Nurk all you want… hes a far cry from the little girl mentality of DeAndre ‘They’ton

This strength of this team is offense. The D will be average at best.

Love watching Nurk set great whole-body screens. That was awesome to see, and something we had been missing for years.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1838 » by Saberestar » Tue Aug 6, 2024 6:14 pm

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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1839 » by Revived » Tue Aug 6, 2024 9:03 pm

Book leading scorer for Team USA as of now. Despite Kerr strangely benching for a long time in 2nd qtr.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1840 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Aug 6, 2024 11:18 pm

Being an Aussie, I obviously have more investment in Team Aus in Olympic basketball and it was disappointing to see them get knocked out in OT by the Joker. Part of watching them is knowing that they aren't going to blow teams away and no game is a foregone conclusion but I was wondering how interested people are in watching team USA considering how dominant they are.

I'll be honest, aside from 1-2 highlights I haven't watched a single Team USA game because they are just so much more talented than any other team and it's essentially their gold medal to lose. I find it hard to be interested in that

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