tor/por/cle - dwarf scottie barnes to toronto

[Syko_boB]

Toronto

Bruce Brown & Chris Boucher
25 POR 2nd
25 TOR 1st (top 10 pro in 25, top 5 pro in 26, or 2 2nds if not conveyed)

For

Anfernee Simons & Dean Wade

Raptors form a trio at guard that will bring the heat every night with somebody always bound to catch fire
They also bring in a fine backup & compliment to their star player

Portland

Anfernee Simons

For

Caris LeVert & Chris Boucher
25 MIL 2nd
25 POR 2nd
25 TOR 1st (top 10 pro in 25, top 5 pro in 26, or 2 2nds if not conveyed)
27 DEN 2nd

Blazers refocus their aim on maximizing Sharpe & Henderson
Both players incoming are expiring

Cleveland

Caris LeVert & Dean Wade
25 MIL 2nd
27 DEN 2nd

For

Bruce Brown

Cavs add a little toughness & stability to their backcourt which should make things easier for their frontcourt

[Myth]

I could get behind this for Portland, especially if we can flip Levert for value.

[jbk1234]

Unless it's Niang instead of Wade, the Cavs aren't going to be interested in this.

[JRoy]

Works for POR.

Don’t really care about the players, the picks must flow!

[MessiahUjiri]

Makes no sense for Toronto. This is heavily Portland biased.

Raps firmly become a 1st round roadkill? No thanks. Also, Simons is an injury prone player who is a subpar defender.

FYI: TOR management has openly talked about being willing to be patient on the rebuild, which this is not.

[cucad8]

I dunno if I've said it in any other Brown trade scenario, but I'm really confused about his evaluation on here generally. He's not...good. He's what, like an 8th man on most any team, really? He's undersized for what he's likely to provide. He can't shoot well enough to justify heavy minutes. It's not like he's a lock down defender. And he makes 22 million dollars this year! I can't understand what would make him 2 2nds better than Levert for Cleveland to be honest.

[DiegoChara]

Makes no sense for Toronto. This is heavily Portland biased.

Raps firmly become a 1st round roadkill? No thanks. Also, Simons is an injury prone player who is a subpar defender.

FYI: TOR management has openly talked about being willing to be patient on the rebuild, which this is not.

I mean, let’s be real. Simons isn’t injury prone. Unless you consider “tankitis” to be a serious health issue.

[axeman23]

"No way, no how!" from Cavs. Would have to be Niang instead of Wade, and I don't really see him being a significant upgrade over Lavert, honestly. And I believe like with most championship teams, a few of the role-players on that Denver team probably got a few more flowers than they deserve, including Brown. Just my opinion...

[Godaddycurse]

I dunno if I've said it in any other Brown trade scenario, but I'm really confused about his evaluation on here generally. He's not...good. He's what, like an 8th man on most any team, really? He's undersized for what he's likely to provide. He can't shoot well enough to justify heavy minutes. It's not like he's a lock down defender. And he makes 22 million dollars this year! I can't understand what would make him 2 2nds better than Levert for Cleveland to be honest.

Strange take for someone who was a 6th man on a championship winning team

[TorontoBarneys]

Get the **** out.

[jayjaysee]

I think it’s a bad idea for Toronto. But that pick most likely isn’t conveying in 2025..

Cleveland part should be Niang not Wade. But I think OP thought Wade was his counting stats, not how he actually helps the team.

Niang in place of Wade and the protections being changed to top 12/8/6 makes this a deal all three teams could consider? If Barnes/RJ/Simons/IQ develop well, you don’t care about giving up the first in 2026… if they don’t, you can tank again in 2026..

[BlazersBroncos]

I could see this if TOR didnt have IQ - but I think they would be nuts to move assets for another small guard that is well paid.

[jbk1234]

I think it’s a bad idea for Toronto. But that pick most likely isn’t conveying in 2025..

Cleveland part should be Niang not Wade. But I think OP thought Wade was his counting stats, not how he actually helps the team.

Niang in place of Wade and the protections being changed to top 12/8/6 makes this a deal all three teams could consider? If Barnes/RJ/Simons/IQ develop well, you don’t care about giving up the first in 2026… if they don’t, you can tank again in 2026..

I struggle with the idea that Simons is worth a 1st. I could entertain the argument as far as a lotto-protected 1st, but there's no reason for the Raptors to give one up heading into this season. They've got Dick who they need to try to develop. The Blazers don't have to be in this trade at all.

[toooskies]

I dunno if I've said it in any other Brown trade scenario, but I'm really confused about his evaluation on here generally. He's not...good. He's what, like an 8th man on most any team, really? He's undersized for what he's likely to provide. He can't shoot well enough to justify heavy minutes. It's not like he's a lock down defender. And he makes 22 million dollars this year! I can't understand what would make him 2 2nds better than Levert for Cleveland to be honest.

Strange take for someone who was a 6th man on a championship winning team

And awful last year, producing negative VORP, a putrid BPM, and a -2.7 EPM. His effectiveness may only have been as a role player who works with very specific archetype bigs like Jokic. Maybe he works well with other elite passing bigs like Sengun or Sabonis too, but I don't have the Cavs' bigs near that level right now (although they're above average passers).

LeVert was probably the better player.

Now-- could you convince me to trade LeVert, Niang, and 2nds for Simons and cut Toronto out of this? I'd be open to that discussion, but the Cavs would be setting themselves up for a rough 2025-26 cap hit.

[jbk1234]

I dunno if I've said it in any other Brown trade scenario, but I'm really confused about his evaluation on here generally. He's not...good. He's what, like an 8th man on most any team, really? He's undersized for what he's likely to provide. He can't shoot well enough to justify heavy minutes. It's not like he's a lock down defender. And he makes 22 million dollars this year! I can't understand what would make him 2 2nds better than Levert for Cleveland to be honest.

Strange take for someone who was a 6th man on a championship winning team

And awful last year, producing negative VORP, a putrid BPM, and a -2.7 EPM. His effectiveness may only have been as a role player who works with very specific archetype bigs like Jokic. Maybe he works well with other elite passing bigs like Sengun or Sabonis too, but I don't have the Cavs' bigs near that level right now (although they're above average passers).

LeVert was probably the better player.

Now-- could you convince me to trade LeVert, Niang, and 2nds for Simons and cut Toronto out of this? I'd be open to that discussion, but the Cavs would be setting themselves up for a rough 2025-26 cap hit.

I don't think Simons brings anything the Cavs don't already have other than unwanted salary. Maybe just swap Niang/2nd for Boucher.

[JRoy]

Strange take for someone who was a 6th man on a championship winning team

And awful last year, producing negative VORP, a putrid BPM, and a -2.7 EPM. His effectiveness may only have been as a role player who works with very specific archetype bigs like Jokic. Maybe he works well with other elite passing bigs like Sengun or Sabonis too, but I don't have the Cavs' bigs near that level right now (although they're above average passers).

LeVert was probably the better player.

Now-- could you convince me to trade LeVert, Niang, and 2nds for Simons and cut Toronto out of this? I'd be open to that discussion, but the Cavs would be setting themselves up for a rough 2025-26 cap hit.

I don't think Simons brings anything the Cavs don't already have other than unwanted salary. Maybe just swap Niang/2nd for Boucher.

Simons seems a luxury with Mitchell and Garland on the roster.

[jbk1234]

And awful last year, producing negative VORP, a putrid BPM, and a -2.7 EPM. His effectiveness may only have been as a role player who works with very specific archetype bigs like Jokic. Maybe he works well with other elite passing bigs like Sengun or Sabonis too, but I don't have the Cavs' bigs near that level right now (although they're above average passers).

LeVert was probably the better player.

Now-- could you convince me to trade LeVert, Niang, and 2nds for Simons and cut Toronto out of this? I'd be open to that discussion, but the Cavs would be setting themselves up for a rough 2025-26 cap hit.

I don't think Simons brings anything the Cavs don't already have other than unwanted salary. Maybe just swap Niang/2nd for Boucher.

Simons seems a luxury with Mitchell and Garland on the roster.

Even with Merrill on the roster. Simons is better than Merrill, but not $20M+ better.

[docholliday99]

I dunno if I've said it in any other Brown trade scenario, but I'm really confused about his evaluation on here generally. He's not...good. He's what, like an 8th man on most any team, really? He's undersized for what he's likely to provide. He can't shoot well enough to justify heavy minutes. It's not like he's a lock down defender. And he makes 22 million dollars this year! I can't understand what would make him 2 2nds better than Levert for Cleveland to be honest.

Strange take for someone who was a 6th man on a championship winning team

And awful last year, producing negative VORP, a putrid BPM, and a -2.7 EPM. His effectiveness may only have been as a role player who works with very specific archetype bigs like Jokic. Maybe he works well with other elite passing bigs like Sengun or Sabonis too, but I don't have the Cavs' bigs near that level right now (although they're above average passers).

LeVert was probably the better player.

Now-- could you convince me to trade LeVert, Niang, and 2nds for Simons and cut Toronto out of this? I'd be open to that discussion, but the Cavs would be setting themselves up for a rough 2025-26 cap hit.

I'd cut Toronto out of this, as it would be a no to a deal with Simons anyways. He's one of the worst defenders in the league and not the type of player MU looks for in the guard position - IQ, Mitchell, Shead, Walter, all known for their defense.

As for Brown's putrid stats last year, it seems it has more to do with him battling a knee injury most of the season than anything else. Suggesting it's because he's not in Denver - though a legitimate possibility, as Jokic makes everyone better - negates why the Nuggets signed Brown in the first place. Brown's prior 3 seasons in Detroit and Brooklyn saw him establish himself as a defensive player with timely offense - a great off the bench player.

I agree with Godaddycurse, as in Denver, he was clearly one of the top-six players all season long and was a key piece in their championship run. He was underpaid in Denver and definitely overpaid in Indy, but they wanted salary filler for a bigger trade anyways.

[toooskies]

Strange take for someone who was a 6th man on a championship winning team

And awful last year, producing negative VORP, a putrid BPM, and a -2.7 EPM. His effectiveness may only have been as a role player who works with very specific archetype bigs like Jokic. Maybe he works well with other elite passing bigs like Sengun or Sabonis too, but I don't have the Cavs' bigs near that level right now (although they're above average passers).

LeVert was probably the better player.

Now-- could you convince me to trade LeVert, Niang, and 2nds for Simons and cut Toronto out of this? I'd be open to that discussion, but the Cavs would be setting themselves up for a rough 2025-26 cap hit.

I'd cut Toronto out of this, as it would be a no to a deal with Simons anyways. He's one of the worst defenders in the league and not the type of player MU looks for in the guard position - IQ, Mitchell, Shead, Walter, all known for their defense.

As for Brown's putrid stats last year, it seems it has more to do with him battling a knee injury most of the season than anything else. Suggesting it's because he's not in Denver - though a legitimate possibility, as Jokic makes everyone better - negates why the Nuggets signed Brown in the first place. Brown's prior 3 seasons in Detroit and Brooklyn saw him establish himself as a defensive player with timely offense - a great off the bench player.

I agree with Godaddycurse, as in Denver, he was clearly one of the top-six players all season long and was a key piece in their championship run. He was underpaid in Denver and definitely overpaid in Indy, but they wanted salary filler for a bigger trade anyways.

He was one of Denver's top six because their seventh and eighth guys were Jeff Green and Christian Braun. Not to dump on them too much because they kept Denver's bench afloat in a title year and both outperformed expectations, but it wasn't terribly hard to be Denver's best bench player.

Last year was the first year anybody decided to pay Brown like a 6th man/starter instead of an end-of-the-rotation guy. It didn't work out.

Even with Merrill on the roster. Simons is better than Merrill, but not $20M+ better.

There's no reason to compare Simons with any player on the roster besides the one he's replacing in the trade.

[jbk1234]

And awful last year, producing negative VORP, a putrid BPM, and a -2.7 EPM. His effectiveness may only have been as a role player who works with very specific archetype bigs like Jokic. Maybe he works well with other elite passing bigs like Sengun or Sabonis too, but I don't have the Cavs' bigs near that level right now (although they're above average passers).

LeVert was probably the better player.

Now-- could you convince me to trade LeVert, Niang, and 2nds for Simons and cut Toronto out of this? I'd be open to that discussion, but the Cavs would be setting themselves up for a rough 2025-26 cap hit.

I'd cut Toronto out of this, as it would be a no to a deal with Simons anyways. He's one of the worst defenders in the league and not the type of player MU looks for in the guard position - IQ, Mitchell, Shead, Walter, all known for their defense.

As for Brown's putrid stats last year, it seems it has more to do with him battling a knee injury most of the season than anything else. Suggesting it's because he's not in Denver - though a legitimate possibility, as Jokic makes everyone better - negates why the Nuggets signed Brown in the first place. Brown's prior 3 seasons in Detroit and Brooklyn saw him establish himself as a defensive player with timely offense - a great off the bench player.

I agree with Godaddycurse, as in Denver, he was clearly one of the top-six players all season long and was a key piece in their championship run. He was underpaid in Denver and definitely overpaid in Indy, but they wanted salary filler for a bigger trade anyways.

He was one of Denver's top six because their seventh and eighth guys were Jeff Green and Christian Braun. Not to dump on them too much because they kept Denver's bench afloat in a title year and both outperformed expectations, but it wasn't terribly hard to be Denver's best bench player.

Last year was the first year anybody decided to pay Brown like a 6th man/starter instead of an end-of-the-rotation guy. It didn't work out.

Even with Merrill on the roster. Simons is better than Merrill, but not $20M+ better.

There's no reason to compare Simons with any player on the roster besides the one he's replacing in the trade.

That's seems a little silly. If he's redundant with who we already have, it matters. If he's expensive and redundant, it matters more. Brown is capable of playing passable defense and is on an expiring contract.