OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT

[Rust_Cohle]

Tbh I don't see how he is undisputed. Nadal and Roger overlapped for so long with each other, as did Novak. Slightly less competition in any of their careers and they could have even more gaudy records. He's great, for sure, and probably has the best argument.

Federer feasted in the worst tennis era ever in 2003-2005, nadal hasn’t beaten Novak on a non clay surface since 2013. It is very undisputed and even nadal himself admits Novak is the GOAT.

Federer is third

[Hellcrooner]

GS FINALS ( the ones that matter)

GOLD : Nadal 30 finals 22 won = 73,33%
SILVER: Djokovic 37 finals 24 wom = 64,86 %
BRONZE: Federer 31 finals 20 won = 64,51 %


How did they win their finals.

GOLD : Nadal vs a big three member 11 of them, against "scrubs" 11 of them he won 50% of his titles vs big three
Silver : Djokovic vs a big three member 8 of them, against "scrubs 16 of them he won 33% vs big three members
Bronze: Federer vs a big three member won 4 against " scrubs" 16 of them so he only won 16% vs big three members


finals lost vs scrubs=

GOLD: nadal NEVER LOST A GS FINAL VS A " SCRUB"
SIlVER: Federer he only lost ONCE vs a " scrub"
Bronce: Djokovic he lost EIGHT F TIMES vs " scrubs"



So, keep repeating stupid mantras

Goat, my ass

undisputed? My Ass


He is the WORST of the three all thigns considered.

What a dumbass take. He has a superior head to head vs nadal and Federer. Hell, nadal hasn’t beaten Djokovic on a non clay surface since 2013. Oof

Novak was the GOAT long before his gold medal. You’d have to be a casual at this point to think otherwise.

he does NOT have a winning head to head vs nadal ON GRAND SLAMS wich are the only tournamets that matter.
you can win as many master 1000s and master 500s you want, they dont mean a f crap.

[Rust_Cohle]

Upon defeating Carlos Alcaraz in a thrilling 2-set Olympic Final, Novak Djoković secured both the gold and his status as the objective GOAT of tennis.

Record 24 Gland Slams
Only player to complete triple Career Grand Slam
Record 40 ATP Tour Masters
Only player to complete Career Golden Masters, which he has done twice
Superior Head-to-head record against every other contender
Olympic gold medal in Men’s Singles



May the doubt rest in peace.

Undisputed is a strong word.
Plenty of doubt still. He has a really strong argument but you really can’t compare different eras.
Federer is 5 years older and was past his prime when Jokic entered his.

Federer had the most dominant 5 year period by far 2004-2009. More than twice as many consecutive weeks at number 1 than Jokic.
Jokic has been near the top for a long time though. Credit for that.

Djokovic had the two best season in tennis history in 2011 and 2015, Federer had his early days with a second best player of Andy roddick. People
Are either casuals or don’t remember the dark ages of 2003-2005 tennis after Agassi retired. Djokovic has also won it against tougher competition, Federer always had a mental block against Novak. He got surpassed by nadal as well.

[Rust_Cohle]

I can’t believe Federer lost to djokovic in 2019 Wimbledon finals with 2 match points on serve. If he won that, it would’ve been like Jordan’s game 6 1998 legendary farewell moment. Djokovic would still have more slams but the argument would’ve been there for Fed but with that L, it’s hard to go against djokovic as the goat with his accolades.

Djokovic is 3-0 vs fed in Wimbledon finals

[Rust_Cohle]

It’s undisputed and a bit silly to argue otherwise considering the numbers and this doesn’t even include Novak’s most weeks at #1:

[Rust_Cohle]

[
LOL, he kind of owns Nadal and Federer head to head, the competition argument doesn't really hold up.

He's 31-29 lifetime vs Nadal. That's hardly "owning" him. By that definition, Nadal really owns Djokovic in Grand Slams. Nadal leads him 11-7 overall in majors and and 5-4 in major finals.

That said, Djokovic definitely has the best case for GOAT. He's so unlikable, though.

Where does the claim that he's more popular worldwide come from?? I've seen him play matches all over the world and he doesn't get nearly the fan support the others did. In fact, it's amazing how often crowds are pulling for his opponent. Just last month, he reprimanded the fans at Wimbledon for cheering too hard for Rune. I found it especially funny they were rooting for Rune over him because Rune is such a brat that he's kicked his mother out of a stadium for not cheering correctly.

No he’s not, Federer cried like a mofo after losing to Djokovic and is far more smug than Novak but people will only nitpick on Novak’s on court behavior. Novak was FAR more respectful to giving props and applauding opposition points on the court more than nadal or Federer ever did.

This post match interview from Federer was pathetic, but hey, he got sponsored to sell Swiss watches so he’s “classy”

Watch on YouTube

;t=48s

[Rust_Cohle]

Joker is a very strong candidate for GOAT, but not undisputed. The fact is the game changed dramatically with the approval of synthetic large headed racquets. (I’m so appreciative that MLB resisted SI’s campaign to allow metal/composite bats. Not only would the scores be ridiculous, but the entire infield would have to wear catcher gear.) The small headed wood racquets placed an emphasis on sheer speed and anticipation. Which is why more tournaments were won by younger players, and even the best players tended to retire by the time they were 30. (Ken Rosewall being the notable exception.) Serve and volley vs baseliners was an interesting match-up, as opposed to today’s game where the obvious tactic is to set up to wallop the ball with maximum top spin. Pete Sampras and Martina were the last to charge the net relentlessly, and a joy to watch. Though so was the graceful Evonne Goolagong and magnificent Bjorn Borg (who skipped the long flight to Australia like most pros back then, and had trouble playing under the lights in the US Open finals, but won everything else before retiring prior to age 25.) And, of course, Rod Laver won a Grand Slam as an amateur, and then was not allowed to compete in the majors for the next 7 years until they became “Open”, and then won another grand slam. How many more majors would he have won? So oranges and apples. I much prefer the wood era, but marvel at the success of today’s aging phenoms. Of which, Joker is definitely no slouch.

Serve and volley was boring as hell, Agassi had a much more pleasing game than Sampras who could never get it done on clay. I’ve been revisiting a lot of 90’s tennis matches and Alcaraz would be blasting many of those players off the court.

Tennis has changed a lot with surfaces and racquet technology but the competition Djokvoic had vs rod laver is night and day different.

[Mrakar]

GS FINALS ( the ones that matter)

GOLD : Nadal 30 finals 22 won = 73,33%
SILVER: Djokovic 37 finals 24 wom = 64,86 %
BRONZE: Federer 31 finals 20 won = 64,51 %


How did they win their finals.

GOLD : Nadal vs a big three member 11 of them, against "scrubs" 11 of them he won 50% of his titles vs big three
Silver : Djokovic vs a big three member 8 of them, against "scrubs 16 of them he won 33% vs big three members
Bronze: Federer vs a big three member won 4 against " scrubs" 16 of them so he only won 16% vs big three members


finals lost vs scrubs=

GOLD: nadal NEVER LOST A GS FINAL VS A " SCRUB"
SIlVER: Federer he only lost ONCE vs a " scrub"
Bronce: Djokovic he lost EIGHT F TIMES vs " scrubs"



So, keep repeating stupid mantras

Goat, my ass

undisputed? My Ass


He is the WORST of the three all thigns considered.

Now divide that per surface. Ofc Nadal has good finals GS record vs big 3 because he was always making finals on French Open and rarely on rest of GS...
You cant be the best if you dominate on only one surface...

Man, this thread is music to my ears, so many crybabies...

[Rust_Cohle]

GS FINALS ( the ones that matter)

GOLD : Nadal 30 finals 22 won = 73,33%
SILVER: Djokovic 37 finals 24 wom = 64,86 %
BRONZE: Federer 31 finals 20 won = 64,51 %


How did they win their finals.

GOLD : Nadal vs a big three member 11 of them, against "scrubs" 11 of them he won 50% of his titles vs big three
Silver : Djokovic vs a big three member 8 of them, against "scrubs 16 of them he won 33% vs big three members
Bronze: Federer vs a big three member won 4 against " scrubs" 16 of them so he only won 16% vs big three members


finals lost vs scrubs=

GOLD: nadal NEVER LOST A GS FINAL VS A " SCRUB"
SIlVER: Federer he only lost ONCE vs a " scrub"
Bronce: Djokovic he lost EIGHT F TIMES vs " scrubs"



So, keep repeating stupid mantras

Goat, my ass

undisputed? My Ass


He is the WORST of the three all thigns considered.

Now divide that per surface. Ofc Nadal has good finals GS record vs big 3 because he was always making finals on French Open and rarely on rest of GS...
You cant be the best if you dominate on only one surface...

Man, this thread is music to my ears, so many crybabies...

That troll bot also said “Alacaraz isn’t that good” when Federer is feasting on a second best one dimensional player like Andy roddick…ffs

[Hellcrooner]

GS FINALS ( the ones that matter)

GOLD : Nadal 30 finals 22 won = 73,33%
SILVER: Djokovic 37 finals 24 wom = 64,86 %
BRONZE: Federer 31 finals 20 won = 64,51 %


How did they win their finals.

GOLD : Nadal vs a big three member 11 of them, against "scrubs" 11 of them he won 50% of his titles vs big three
Silver : Djokovic vs a big three member 8 of them, against "scrubs 16 of them he won 33% vs big three members
Bronze: Federer vs a big three member won 4 against " scrubs" 16 of them so he only won 16% vs big three members


finals lost vs scrubs=

GOLD: nadal NEVER LOST A GS FINAL VS A " SCRUB"
SIlVER: Federer he only lost ONCE vs a " scrub"
Bronce: Djokovic he lost EIGHT F TIMES vs " scrubs"



So, keep repeating stupid mantras

Goat, my ass

undisputed? My Ass


He is the WORST of the three all thigns considered.

Now divide that per surface. Ofc Nadal has good finals GS record vs big 3 because he was always making finals on French Open and rarely on rest of GS...
You cant be the best if you dominate on only one surface...

Man, this thread is music to my ears, so many crybabies...

lol
thats the absolute more stupid logic ever.

yeah.

lets forget that 2 of the 4 gs that are played every year are played on hard court giving an advantage to the player that is better at that surface.

how many more titles would Federer have if instead of hard court there would be two grass gs every year?

hoe many more titles woudl nadal won if there were two on clay?

[Rust_Cohle]

GS FINALS ( the ones that matter)

GOLD : Nadal 30 finals 22 won = 73,33%
SILVER: Djokovic 37 finals 24 wom = 64,86 %
BRONZE: Federer 31 finals 20 won = 64,51 %


How did they win their finals.

GOLD : Nadal vs a big three member 11 of them, against "scrubs" 11 of them he won 50% of his titles vs big three
Silver : Djokovic vs a big three member 8 of them, against "scrubs 16 of them he won 33% vs big three members
Bronze: Federer vs a big three member won 4 against " scrubs" 16 of them so he only won 16% vs big three members


finals lost vs scrubs=

GOLD: nadal NEVER LOST A GS FINAL VS A " SCRUB"
SIlVER: Federer he only lost ONCE vs a " scrub"
Bronce: Djokovic he lost EIGHT F TIMES vs " scrubs"



So, keep repeating stupid mantras

Goat, my ass

undisputed? My Ass


He is the WORST of the three all thigns considered.

Now divide that per surface. Ofc Nadal has good finals GS record vs big 3 because he was always making finals on French Open and rarely on rest of GS...
You cant be the best if you dominate on only one surface...

Man, this thread is music to my ears, so many crybabies...

lol
thats the absolute more stupid logic ever.

yeah.

lets forget that 2 of the 4 gs that are played every year are played on hard court giving an advantage to the player that is better at that surface.

how many more titles would Federer have if instead of hard court there would be two grass gs every year?

hoe many more titles woudl nadal won if there were two on clay?

Considering hes 0-3 vs Novak in grass finals not as many as novak would have if he got to do grass twice a year

[Hellcrooner]

Now divide that per surface. Ofc Nadal has good finals GS record vs big 3 because he was always making finals on French Open and rarely on rest of GS...
You cant be the best if you dominate on only one surface...

Man, this thread is music to my ears, so many crybabies...

lol
thats the absolute more stupid logic ever.

yeah.

lets forget that 2 of the 4 gs that are played every year are played on hard court giving an advantage to the player that is better at that surface.

how many more titles would Federer have if instead of hard court there would be two grass gs every year?

hoe many more titles woudl nadal won if there were two on clay?

Considering hes 0-3 vs Novak in grass finals not as many as novak would have if he got to do grass twice a year

you are removing one hard court gs to get that second grass one.
So he would be about equal unless the one you remove is the australia one, that would be tricky because that is HIS turf more than the Us.

Wimbledon is Feds turf
Roland G is Nadals
Aussi is Djokoc

the us open is the most " open" of them .

You have to consider taht if you put a second grass tournament a year nadal might actually play isntead of sistematically throwing wimbledon/ not even participating to save his legs for the Us open.

[ForeverTFC]

Not here to argue Novak, but overall, isn’t it interesting? GOATs, GOATs everywhere!!!

Recency bias out there much?

If everything’s so much better and natural evolution and all, shouldn’t that athlete’s competition theoretically be just as difficult to overcome compared to predecessors and their own generation? Meaning each relative to their own era. It’s supposed to be the hardest it’s ever been now, yet athletes are breaking all-time records left and right?

Hmmm. What a time to be alive when there’s “coincidentally” GOATs all over the place.

The modern history of sports is what, 40-50 years old at this point? You're shocked that a large share of Sports have seen their GOATs emerge in the last decade or two? Why would that be surprising? That's 25%-50% of the sample.

The record breaking is also not a "gotcha". Totally reasonable to believe that the median skill level has increased but the tail has gotten both better and elongated.

That’s not shock, it’s just sarcasm.

Why is it totally reasonable re: the tail? Seems like complete conjecture.

Some simply are the greatest, but I’ve heard frequently -

Biles (active)
Bolt (r. 2017)
Brady (r. 2023) [and we know damn well people are ready to crown Mahomes, esp if Chiefs win this year]
Kohei* (r. 2022)
Lebron (active)
Ledecky (active)
Marta (active - women’s soccer)
Messi (active)
Novak (active)
Phelps (r. 2016)
Serena (r. 2022)
Tiger (active)
Taurasi (active)

*apparently there’s a men’s gymnast I’ve never heard of that some say is their GOAT. I only searched because I figured you’d say I conveniently cherry picked Biles and left out men’s gymnastics, but look…another GOAT!!

So what’s that leave from athletes that didn’t just finish their career, and people actually give a damn about the sport??

- Gretzky
- Whoever baseball is? (yet the GOAT topic’s already coming up about Ohtani!)
- Whoever the best women’s golfer is?

So even drawing your “modern era,” 25-50% line [that doesn’t even consider the likes of Bill Russell, Willie Mays, Babe Ruth], that’s what? Some 80+% of the GOATs are active, or retired within the last 8 years?

Most of them are active, with the retired having done so mostly within the last 2 years, and the remaining 2 retiring within the last 7-8 years.

Seems a little too coincidental, and that humanity’s recency bias weighs heavily into these greatest proclamations.

The arrival is the date they started, not the current year. LeBron, Messi, Novak, Serena, Tiger; these guys all came on to the scene in the late 90s to the early/mid 2000s.

Also, I didn’t pick the 80s arbitrarily. By the 70s, some pro athletes started making enough money that they were able to only have that as their profession and make a good living. By the 80s, it was common place. I think that’s a good time to start thinking about the timeline of modern sports. So ~20 years after is when the athletes we consider the greatest started to come on to the field. Again, I really don’t think that’s crazy.

[Rust_Cohle]

lol
thats the absolute more stupid logic ever.

yeah.

lets forget that 2 of the 4 gs that are played every year are played on hard court giving an advantage to the player that is better at that surface.

how many more titles would Federer have if instead of hard court there would be two grass gs every year?

hoe many more titles woudl nadal won if there were two on clay?

Considering hes 0-3 vs Novak in grass finals not as many as novak would have if he got to do grass twice a year

you are removing one hard court gs to get that second grass one.
So he would be about equal unless the one you remove is the australia one, that would be tricky because that is HIS turf more than the Us.

Wimbledon is Feds turf
Roland G is Nadals
Aussi is Djokoc

the us open is the most " open" of them .

You have to consider taht if you put a second grass tournament a year nadal might actually play isntead of sistematically throwing wimbledon/ not even participating to save his legs for the Us open.

Grass is Novak’s turf over fed. Fed has an inferior h2h over Novak.

[therealbig3]

GS FINALS ( the ones that matter)

GOLD : Nadal 30 finals 22 won = 73,33%
SILVER: Djokovic 37 finals 24 wom = 64,86 %
BRONZE: Federer 31 finals 20 won = 64,51 %


How did they win their finals.

GOLD : Nadal vs a big three member 11 of them, against "scrubs" 11 of them he won 50% of his titles vs big three
Silver : Djokovic vs a big three member 8 of them, against "scrubs 16 of them he won 33% vs big three members
Bronze: Federer vs a big three member won 4 against " scrubs" 16 of them so he only won 16% vs big three members


finals lost vs scrubs=

GOLD: nadal NEVER LOST A GS FINAL VS A " SCRUB"
SIlVER: Federer he only lost ONCE vs a " scrub"
Bronce: Djokovic he lost EIGHT F TIMES vs " scrubs"



So, keep repeating stupid mantras

Goat, my ass

undisputed? My Ass


He is the WORST of the three all thigns considered.

Now divide that per surface. Ofc Nadal has good finals GS record vs big 3 because he was always making finals on French Open and rarely on rest of GS...
You cant be the best if you dominate on only one surface...

Man, this thread is music to my ears, so many crybabies...

lol
thats the absolute more stupid logic ever.

yeah.

lets forget that 2 of the 4 gs that are played every year are played on hard court giving an advantage to the player that is better at that surface.

how many more titles would Federer have if instead of hard court there would be two grass gs every year?

hoe many more titles woudl nadal won if there were two on clay?

Meh, Federer and Djokovic were more consistent contenders on clay than Nadal has been on grass or hard court.

[stoo]

GS FINALS ( the ones that matter)

GOLD : Nadal 30 finals 22 won = 73,33%
SILVER: Djokovic 37 finals 24 wom = 64,86 %
BRONZE: Federer 31 finals 20 won = 64,51 %


How did they win their finals.

GOLD : Nadal vs a big three member 11 of them, against "scrubs" 11 of them he won 50% of his titles vs big three
Silver : Djokovic vs a big three member 8 of them, against "scrubs 16 of them he won 33% vs big three members
Bronze: Federer vs a big three member won 4 against " scrubs" 16 of them so he only won 16% vs big three members


finals lost vs scrubs=

GOLD: nadal NEVER LOST A GS FINAL VS A " SCRUB"
SIlVER: Federer he only lost ONCE vs a " scrub"
Bronce: Djokovic he lost EIGHT F TIMES vs " scrubs"



So, keep repeating stupid mantras

Goat, my ass

undisputed? My Ass


He is the WORST of the three all thigns considered.

stop man. u sound stupid. u do understand that if you're having success only on 1 type of surface, you shouldn't be in the conversation for the best. 1 trick pony

[Mallie]

Damn, this is somehow even more boring and circular than NBA GOAT threads.

And I'm saying that as a huge tennis fan.

[Jack Dempsey]

Upon defeating Carlos Alcaraz in a thrilling 2-set Olympic Final, Novak Djoković secured both the gold and his status as the objective GOAT of tennis.

Record 24 Gland Slams
Only player to complete triple Career Grand Slam
Record 40 ATP Tour Masters
Only player to complete Career Golden Masters, which he has done twice
Superior Head-to-head record against every other contender
Olympic gold medal in Men’s Singles



May the doubt rest in peace.

Undisputed is a strong word.
Plenty of doubt still. He has a really strong argument but you really can’t compare different eras.
Federer is 5 years older and was past his prime when Jokic entered his.

Federer had the most dominant 5 year period by far 2004-2009. More than twice as many consecutive weeks at number 1 than Jokic.
Jokic has been near the top for a long time though. Credit for that.

Jokic?
Jokic has 3 NBA MVP awards along with 1 Finals MVP, Federer has none

Sorry, I just had to

[gavran]

Pete Sampras was better.

[brackdan70]

Upon defeating Carlos Alcaraz in a thrilling 2-set Olympic Final, Novak Djoković secured both the gold and his status as the objective GOAT of tennis.

Record 24 Gland Slams
Only player to complete triple Career Grand Slam
Record 40 ATP Tour Masters
Only player to complete Career Golden Masters, which he has done twice
Superior Head-to-head record against every other contender
Olympic gold medal in Men’s Singles



May the doubt rest in peace.

Undisputed is a strong word.
Plenty of doubt still. He has a really strong argument but you really can’t compare different eras.
Federer is 5 years older and was past his prime when Jokic entered his.

Federer had the most dominant 5 year period by far 2004-2009. More than twice as many consecutive weeks at number 1 than Jokic.
Jokic has been near the top for a long time though. Credit for that.

Jokic?
Jokic has 3 NBA MVP awards along with 1 Finals MVP, Federer has none

Sorry, I just had to

Lol. Yeah Freudian slip or something. I’m going back to basketball.