2024 Olympic BASKETBALL Thread (pt.4.2: Quarterfinals are set!)

[lambchop]

Schröder > Giannis

I'm not much of a Giannis fan, but putting him on a roster with Franz, Obst, Lo etc. just standing around waiting for open shots would be impossible to stop in FIBA play, while few teams would have the necessary offensive firepower to punish them on the other end for not having advanced defenders on the floor.

Greece was once known for having a ton of great shooters, but, kind of like Lithuania, they'll almost become a non shooting basketball nation.

[durden_tyler]

What is Schroder’s contract with the Nets? Sure trade fodder right, and they can get at least a late first rounder for him from any of the contenders? (Denver?)


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[UcanUwill]

Couldn't watch first half, but according to stats, it was big guys driven game.

For Germany, Thiemman and Wagner bros seemed like the best guys, Franz had some very huge baskets in third and forth against great defense, hand in his face.

For Greece, Giannis was best as usual, Mitoglu was the guy who scored like 6 first points and gave Greece early lead. Germany came back in the second and ran over from there.

[djw]

Semi-finals here we come! Way to overcome a bad start.

Defense on Giannis was amazing but Greece not having a single player besides Giannis who is able to create helped with this.

Still, we have good energy coming from our bench. Mo got our scoring going and Johannes Thiemann had a stretch of great plays in the thirs quarter to get us out of a slump.

Love that team.

[LuDux1]

No matter how game ends, kudos Greece, they came into a tourney as defensive oriented team and it worked, they fighting. But in this event, where a ton of players are either from NBA or EL, it really showed the difference between two levels, still. Euroleague is very talented now, but look at Calathes. Ultimately, Calathes is still a good EL player, but man, he seriously has zero moves, he is so stiff at everything, he can't shake off defender or even think of doing that, seems like he can't move left or right, he just works, his dribble is functional, but thats it. Seeing Shai dancing on these defenders really was still eye opening how far more advanced these NBA guards are at individual skills. And obviously most EL starting guards are better scoring vise than Calathes, but none of them can really move some of these guys like Franz or Shai or even Barrett do.

Yep, NBA ball handling is on another level. Keep in mind that those NBA perimeter players are expected to get past the likes of Jrue Holiday, Dort etc. pretty much every other play. Imo it will still take a while for Euro countries to develop those kind of ball handlers on a regular basis.

We Lithuanians are terrible at this in particular. I have no idea what these academies, but none of our guys can handle the ball. One of our most promising guards, Kasparas Jakučionis, he developed in Barcelona system, and he is probably most advanced 18 year old we have, because when giving interview he kinda dropped something that would be revolutionary to our idiot Basketball school. THey had practice games in Spain, where you can't set screens... thats it... So, learn to beat your guy one on one, or pass the ball... Thats why he was rare kid of ours who kinda can dribble, everything about our basketball is team/screen oriented, no one has ISO skills, its sad. We just survive still because we have tall people, and for 7 footers, the skill bar is lower.

"No screens" and some other limitations existed (and some still exist) in MKL (league for u12, u13 ... u18) from 2016 to 2022, which is then Jakucionis played there
https://mkl.lt/moksleiviu-krepsinio-lygoje-panaikinti-ribojimai-del-uztvaru-bei-dvigubos-gynybos-elementu/

[UcanUwill]

What is Schroder’s contract with the Nets? Sure trade fodder right, and they can get at least a late first rounder for him from any of the contenders? (Denver?)


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As we recently seen, no one now giving out firsts for these players anymore. We all knew Dennis is alright, but I doubt they are getting first for him now.

[durden_tyler]

Giannis is probably relieved to be done with that mess, whether its now or later. Feel for him though, deserves better. Coaching & play.

Almost feels like what Luka went through with Slovenia. They really want to represent their flag (despite recent injuries) and that’s impressive. But at some point, they are going to feel like it’s useless playing for the NT when it’s always the same scrubs as teammates and you have to do everything yourself. LOL


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[BigJimFinn]

He will step down after the Olympics and become the coach of Bayern Munich Basketball in the Euroleague.

I think he already is, the national team is just a summer gig
edit: no, they had Pablo Laso last year..

I remember thinking Dirk Bauermann was great coach, but he never really translated to club Basketball, his Germany with Dirk had its moments. Current coach also has incredible talent at his disposal.

Germany can only win medals with a Finnish coach (yeah, Gordie is Finnish, has lived here twice as long as in Canada).
Remember the Deadman, and maybe hire Iisalo next...

[durden_tyler]

What is Schroder’s contract with the Nets? Sure trade fodder right, and they can get at least a late first rounder for him from any of the contenders? (Denver?)


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As we recently seen, no one now giving out firsts for these players anymore. We all knew Dennis is alright, but I doubt they are getting first for him now.

Sure but Nets would jump on early seconds too. i do think Schroder has value to a contender. Not starter material but 20 min a game should be a good option off the bench.


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[DrPampiloni]

I think he already is, the national team is just a summer gig
edit: no, they had Pablo Laso last year..

I remember thinking Dirk Bauermann was great coach, but he never really translated to club Basketball, his Germany with Dirk had its moments. Current coach also has incredible talent at his disposal.

Germany can only win medals with a Finnish coach (yeah, Gordie is Finnish, has lived here twice as long as in Canada).
Remember the Deadman, and maybe hire Iisalo next...

Bauermann got a Eurobasket silver in 2005... Ironically losing the final against a Greek team that had Spanoulis (now greek coach and Zisis (now general manager of the national team) on the roster.

[Pachinko_]

I think he already is, the national team is just a summer gig
edit: no, they had Pablo Laso last year..

I remember thinking Dirk Bauermann was great coach, but he never really translated to club Basketball, his Germany with Dirk had its moments. Current coach also has incredible talent at his disposal.

Germany can only win medals with a Finnish coach (yeah, Gordie is Finnish, has lived here twice as long as in Canada).
Remember the Deadman, and maybe hire Iisalo next...

Iisalo going to the NBA to be a video coordinator or whatever is a huge disappointment, he built this awesome team in Paris, and now they made it to the Euroleague and he leaves? To do what? In the NBA there's never been a single Heach Coach born and raised in Europe, it's a closed club, he just burried his career for however long he stays there.

[lambchop]

Yep, NBA ball handling is on another level. Keep in mind that those NBA perimeter players are expected to get past the likes of Jrue Holiday, Dort etc. pretty much every other play. Imo it will still take a while for Euro countries to develop those kind of ball handlers on a regular basis.

We Lithuanians are terrible at this in particular. I have no idea what these academies, but none of our guys can handle the ball. One of our most promising guards, Kasparas Jakučionis, he developed in Barcelona system, and he is probably most advanced 18 year old we have, because when giving interview he kinda dropped something that would be revolutionary to our idiot Basketball school. THey had practice games in Spain, where you can't set screens... thats it... So, learn to beat your guy one on one, or pass the ball... Thats why he was rare kid of ours who kinda can dribble, everything about our basketball is team/screen oriented, no one has ISO skills, its sad. We just survive still because we have tall people, and for 7 footers, the skill bar is lower.

"No screens" and some other limitations existed (and some still exist) in MKL (league for u12, u13 ... u18) from 2016 to 2022, which is then Jakucionis played there
https://mkl.lt/moksleiviu-krepsinio-lygoje-panaikinti-ribojimai-del-uztvaru-bei-dvigubos-gynybos-elementu/

Simply screening your way to success works excellently against teams are reluctant to switch or when you have a lethal big or shooter that will put the defense in tough spots whether they switch of not. However, Lithuania doesn't really have those kinds of shooters and, to make matters worse, switching is a common thing nowadays so teams aren't afraid of having someone like Domantas get the ball down low against a smaller player.

The no screen thing is great and is also commonly used in Germany. I remember attending a seminar there years ago where they mentioned the difference between playing to win games and playing to develop pro basketball players in youth basketball. Not using screens/focusing on individual skill development will cost you team success at the youth levels, but will provide better results in the pros and at the national team level.

[UcanUwill]

Giannis is probably relieved to be done with that mess, whether its now or later. Feel for him though, deserves better. Coaching & play.

Almost feels like what Luka went through with Slovenia. They really want to represent their flag (despite recent injuries) and that’s impressive. But at some point, they are going to feel like it’s useless playing for the NT when it’s always the same scrubs as teammates and you have to do everything yourself. LOL


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I mean, this is far from the best Greek teams, but the biggest problem is fit. Some of these players are good, they are much better at their clubs, but they all are terrible fit together, because most of these guys are non scorers who collaborate with shooters, scorers. Walkup is pretty good when he has to play with Cannan and Peters and Vazenkov. But him and Calathes, then add Giannis too, the fit is ridiculously hilarious. SPanoulis probably should have experimented more, he went a bit too safe, too predictable, bringing the most notable names and playing them together in most important times. He probably needed more Toliopolous and more guys like that, guys who not from Euroleague, but who can at least shoot.

IDK, overall, Greece did not underachieve, they were third most talented team in that group and they finished third I believe. They got to top 8 which was their ceiling IMO, so not like this team was terrible, but yeah, they weren't very inspiring, very safe and unchallenging play, just get best EL players and put them together despite the fit.

Overall, these Greek players, individually are much stronger than most SLovenian players, but full strength Slovenia is a bit more inspiring, because fit is better around Luka. Lukas teammates aren't even Euroleague level, but they are all spot up shooters and thats most of what you need. Greek guys are more advanced, but you can not play 3 non shooters in 2024, thats what it was almost.

[jezzerinho]

I remember thinking Dirk Bauermann was great coach, but he never really translated to club Basketball, his Germany with Dirk had its moments. Current coach also has incredible talent at his disposal.

Germany can only win medals with a Finnish coach (yeah, Gordie is Finnish, has lived here twice as long as in Canada).
Remember the Deadman, and maybe hire Iisalo next...

Iisalo going to the NBA to be a video coordinator or whatever is a huge disappointment, he built this awesome team in Paris, and now they made it to the Euroleague and he leaves? To do what? In the NBA there's never been a single Heach Coach born and raised in Europe, it's a closed club, he just burried his career for however long he stays there.

Ehhh, Jordi Fernandez?

[lambchop]

I remember thinking Dirk Bauermann was great coach, but he never really translated to club Basketball, his Germany with Dirk had its moments. Current coach also has incredible talent at his disposal.

Germany can only win medals with a Finnish coach (yeah, Gordie is Finnish, has lived here twice as long as in Canada).
Remember the Deadman, and maybe hire Iisalo next...

Iisalo going to the NBA to be a video coordinator or whatever is a huge disappointment, he built this awesome team in Paris, and now they made it to the Euroleague and he leaves? To do what? In the NBA there's never been a single Heach Coach born and raised in Europe, it's a closed club, he just burried his career for however long he stays there.

What do you mean by born and raised? Rajakovic was born in Yugoslavia and coached in Serbia until about 2008 or something. He is now the head coach of the Raptors.
I'm not sure about where Jordi Fernandez coached in Europe though.

[UcanUwill]

We Lithuanians are terrible at this in particular. I have no idea what these academies, but none of our guys can handle the ball. One of our most promising guards, Kasparas Jakučionis, he developed in Barcelona system, and he is probably most advanced 18 year old we have, because when giving interview he kinda dropped something that would be revolutionary to our idiot Basketball school. THey had practice games in Spain, where you can't set screens... thats it... So, learn to beat your guy one on one, or pass the ball... Thats why he was rare kid of ours who kinda can dribble, everything about our basketball is team/screen oriented, no one has ISO skills, its sad. We just survive still because we have tall people, and for 7 footers, the skill bar is lower.

"No screens" and some other limitations existed (and some still exist) in MKL (league for u12, u13 ... u18) from 2016 to 2022, which is then Jakucionis played there
https://mkl.lt/moksleiviu-krepsinio-lygoje-panaikinti-ribojimai-del-uztvaru-bei-dvigubos-gynybos-elementu/

Simply screening your way to success works excellently against teams are reluctant to switch or when you have a lethal big or shooter that will put the defense in tough spots whether they switch of not. However, Lithuania doesn't really have those kinds of shooters and, to make matters worse, switching is a common thing nowadays so teams aren't afraid of having someone like Domantas get the ball down low against a smaller player.

The no screen thing is great and is also commonly used in Germany. I remember attending a seminar there years ago where they mentioned the between playing to win games and playing to develop pro basketball players in youth basketball. Not using screens/focusing on individual skill development will cost you team success at the youth levels, but will provide better results in the pros and at the national team level.

This is my stupid theory, but IMO, Jasikevičius, as a player idol, I think did some harm to new generation. Jasikevičius really had no handle, he had that ball protection skill, with his body basically, but he did everything after a screen. And we got entire new generation of players, thinking that if they do fancy no look passes Šasas style, they will be good. Jasikevičius was very rare example of guard with no handle, but who just worked, and you can't teach Šaras, he just had feel for the game that you either have it or not. You can learn dribble if you practive a lot, thats learnable, but we had too much kids trying to be Šaras, where they needed to watch guys who can at least split the double and handle the ball face up first...

[RookieStar]

I remember thinking Dirk Bauermann was great coach, but he never really translated to club Basketball, his Germany with Dirk had its moments. Current coach also has incredible talent at his disposal.

Germany can only win medals with a Finnish coach (yeah, Gordie is Finnish, has lived here twice as long as in Canada).
Remember the Deadman, and maybe hire Iisalo next...

Iisalo going to the NBA to be a video coordinator or whatever is a huge disappointment, he built this awesome team in Paris, and now they made it to the Euroleague and he leaves? To do what? In the NBA there's never been a single Heach Coach born and raised in Europe, it's a closed club, he just burried his career for however long he stays there.

Uh... the only NBA team my country has is currently employing a Euro coach. Well im not surr if he was born across the Atlantic but im confident he doesnt belong to that "closed club" you are talking about.

[UcanUwill]

Germany can only win medals with a Finnish coach (yeah, Gordie is Finnish, has lived here twice as long as in Canada).
Remember the Deadman, and maybe hire Iisalo next...

Iisalo going to the NBA to be a video coordinator or whatever is a huge disappointment, he built this awesome team in Paris, and now they made it to the Euroleague and he leaves? To do what? In the NBA there's never been a single Heach Coach born and raised in Europe, it's a closed club, he just burried his career for however long he stays there.

Uh... the only NBA team my country has is currently employing a Euro coach. Well im not surr if he was born across the Atlantic but im confident he doesnt belong to that "closed club" you are talking about.

DArko is closed club NBA guy, but Nurse wasnt... Nurse coached in England, he is not exactly NBA product that much I believe, SPO started as video coordinator. Some guys do not care for the NBA at all, but some care about it the most, and it is his chance, he cares, he took it. If hes smart, he might make it.

[Pachinko_]

Germany can only win medals with a Finnish coach (yeah, Gordie is Finnish, has lived here twice as long as in Canada).
Remember the Deadman, and maybe hire Iisalo next...

Iisalo going to the NBA to be a video coordinator or whatever is a huge disappointment, he built this awesome team in Paris, and now they made it to the Euroleague and he leaves? To do what? In the NBA there's never been a single Heach Coach born and raised in Europe, it's a closed club, he just burried his career for however long he stays there.

Ehhh, Jordi Fernandez?

Ha! ****
Times are a-changing

I didn't know.

[durden_tyler]

Giannis is probably relieved to be done with that mess, whether its now or later. Feel for him though, deserves better. Coaching & play.

Almost feels like what Luka went through with Slovenia. They really want to represent their flag (despite recent injuries) and that’s impressive. But at some point, they are going to feel like it’s useless playing for the NT when it’s always the same scrubs as teammates and you have to do everything yourself. LOL


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I mean, this is far from the best Greek teams, but the biggest problem is fit. Some of these players are good, they are much better at their clubs, but they all are terrible fit together, because most of these guys are non scorers who collaborate with shooters, scorers. Walkup is pretty good when he has to play with Cannan and Peters and Vazenkov. But him and Calathes, then add Giannis too, the fit is ridiculously hilarious. SPanoulis probably should have experimented more, he went a bit too safe, too predictable, bringing the most notable names and playing them together in most important times. He probably needed more Toliopolous and more guys like that, guys who not from Euroleague, but who can at least shoot.

IDK, overall, Greece did not underachieve, they were third most talented team in that group and they finished third I believe. They got to top 8 which was their ceiling IMO, so not like this team was terrible, but yeah, they weren't very inspiring, very safe and unchallenging play, just get best EL players and put them together despite the fit.

Overall, these Greek players, individually are much stronger than most SLovenian players, but full strength Slovenia is a bit more inspiring, because fit is better around Luka. Lukas teammates aren't even Euroleague level, but they are all spot up shooters and thats most of what you need. Greek guys are more advanced, but you can not play 3 non shooters in 2024, thats what it was almost.

My point is that they have a superstar then just a bunch or role players— at any level.


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