Markkanen signing long-term extension (untradeable this season)

[Lo Wang]

As long as the Lakers are the 12 seed, that's a win.

How is that a win when they are out of the Cooper sweepstake?

Ainge's malfeasance is a black eye on the organization. This is a huge fail.

Didn't the Hawks just literally win the lottery having the 10th best odds?

Does anyone who makes these claims understand just how the lottery works in the NBA now? Do you all realize that the Pistons have had the best odds two years in a row only to get passed up by four teams for two years in a row?

You're right, I don't know a lot about drafts, but I know this much: you're not getting Cooper at 12th seed. Have fun being a play in contender for the next 10 years.

[Nate505]

Revisionist history.

Ainge was highly criticized for his absurd gamble and the same people said there was a risk he could walk, which was true. They didn't say he was 100% going to walk. They only pointed out a risk.

Ainge realized nobody was playing his game so he offered an extension so he wouldn't lose him. The risk was real.

It's not revisionist history. It's literally history. When people where whining about the high asking price, they were met with the absolutely logical and utterly predicable response of "he'll just sign an extension," because that was the end game here. Either pay the Jazz a massive price or they just extend the guy. When that response was made, there were some people were actually stupid enough to think there was a risk he wouldn't.

The risk was not real at all. The risk was theoretical.

I was one of those people who brought up he could walk. Just because you were right doesn't mean people were "stupid" to bring up that chance as a possibility.

Sure it does, because it wasn't a possibility. I mean there's a possibility I could be President. I'm a US citizen and 35 years old, and that's the only requirements. But it's not a possibility in reality.

[Nate505]

How is that a win when they are out of the Cooper sweepstake?

Ainge's malfeasance is a black eye on the organization. This is a huge fail.

Didn't the Hawks just literally win the lottery having the 10th best odds?

Does anyone who makes these claims understand just how the lottery works in the NBA now? Do you all realize that the Pistons have had the best odds two years in a row only to get passed up by four teams for two years in a row?

You're right, I don't know a lot about drafts, but I know this much: you're not getting Cooper at 12th seed.

The Hawks literally won the lottery this year as the 10th seed in the East.

[HadAnEffectHere]

No, because they aren't relying on the lottery to be the savior of the team, thank god.

They absolutely are. I don't see what you see the path as.

I hope not. That hasn't worked out in years. It might work for the Spurs if you get a Wemby level talent, but that's about it.

The prior plan was to trade for Mikal Bridges and sign Paul George and that was a massive disaster and it feels like Ainge is panicking and is pushing the tank button because there's no path.

Like, they got rid of any bench role players to lose more games.

I don't see any path other than lottery luck for many years in a row. They just have failed completely to add talent over the last two offseasons (striking out as badly as possible on Porzingis, Jrue, Mikal Bridges, and Paul George)

[Jadoogar]

As long as the Lakers are the 12 seed, that's a win.

How is that a win when they are out of the Cooper sweepstake?

Ainge's malfeasance is a black eye on the organization. This is a huge fail.

Didn't the Hawks just literally win the lottery having the 10th best odds?

This is just luck, that's not a plan. Nuggets drafted the best player in the league with the 41st pick, obviously we should trade all our assets for the upcoming 41st pick.

Sometimes plans don't work out (see pistons) but atleast they have a plan. The best players in the league right now were selected in top 5. Can you find elite players elsewhere in the draft? Obviously. Is it easier to find elite talent at the top of the draft? Also obviously.

Of the 15 players that made all-nba last year, 8 were selected in the top 10 (7 of which were top 5 picks).

[Nate505]

How is that a win when they are out of the Cooper sweepstake?

Ainge's malfeasance is a black eye on the organization. This is a huge fail.

Didn't the Hawks just literally win the lottery having the 10th best odds?

This is just luck, that's not a plan. Nuggets drafted the best player in the league with the 41st pick, obviously we should trade all our assets for the upcoming 41st pick.

Sometimes plans don't work out (see pistons) but atleast they have a plan. The best players in the league right now were selected in top 5. Can you find elite players elsewhere in the draft? Obviously. Is it easier to find elite talent at the top of the draft? Also obviously.

Of the 15 players that made all-nba last year, 8 were selected in the top 10 (7 of which were top 5 picks).

Are you telling me the lottery is all about luck? Agreed.

[DorO]

Cool Utah, have fun gunning for the 11 seed.

Will be in bottom 3-5 even with Markkanen, young players will get some burn -> recipe to be really bad.

[Catchall]

Interesting background. Some in the league saw Lauri as potentially the top FA next summer.

Read on Twitter

[Lo Wang]

It's not revisionist history. It's literally history. When people where whining about the high asking price, they were met with the absolutely logical and utterly predicable response of "he'll just sign an extension," because that was the end game here. Either pay the Jazz a massive price or they just extend the guy. When that response was made, there were some people were actually stupid enough to think there was a risk he wouldn't.

The risk was not real at all. The risk was theoretical.

I was one of those people who brought up he could walk. Just because you were right doesn't mean people were "stupid" to bring up that chance as a possibility.

Sure it does, because it wasn't a possibility. I mean there's a possibility I could be President. I'm a US citizen and 35 years old, and that's the only requirements. But it's not a possibility in reality.

No it's not a possibility you could be president. It's more probable you won't be. It's a possibility you might get in a car accident if you drive wrecklessly just like it's a possibility Markkanen could walk in FA.

It was a logical position. Calling people stupid is just ignorant.

[jazzfan1971]

I was one of those people who brought up he could walk. Just because you were right doesn't mean people were "stupid" to bring up that chance as a possibility.

Sure it does, because it wasn't a possibility. I mean there's a possibility I could be President. I'm a US citizen and 35 years old, and that's the only requirements. But it's not a possibility in reality.

No it's not a possibility you could be president. It's more probable you won't be. It's a possibility you might get in a car accident if you drive wrecklessly just like it's a possibility Markkanen could walk in FA.

It was a logical position. Calling people stupid is just ignorant.

It was a highly unlikely possibility. And for all we know, Ainge and his agent had an agreement in place for some time now, making it an extremely remote possibility.

Still, I am breathing a little sigh of relief.

[Jadoogar]

Didn't the Hawks just literally win the lottery having the 10th best odds?

This is just luck, that's not a plan. Nuggets drafted the best player in the league with the 41st pick, obviously we should trade all our assets for the upcoming 41st pick.

Sometimes plans don't work out (see pistons) but atleast they have a plan. The best players in the league right now were selected in top 5. Can you find elite players elsewhere in the draft? Obviously. Is it easier to find elite talent at the top of the draft? Also obviously.

Of the 15 players that made all-nba last year, 8 were selected in the top 10 (7 of which were top 5 picks).

Are you telling me the lottery is all about luck? Agreed.

that's what you got from my post?

[Richard4444]

But I was told by the geniuses here that Ainge's trade demands were nuts and that Lauri would become an unrestricted FA next year because of...uh, reasons.

I think most of us were saying it would not be very smart for the Utah Jazz to keep Lauri because:

1) Utah is far away to contend right now. Sexton, Collins, and Clarkson do not inspire much confidence. Kessler, George, Cody Williams, and Hendricks are far away from breaking out.

2) Lauri can disrupt a tanking season to compete for Cooper Flag and high-potential rookies.

3) Lauri is not durable and overpaying him could result in an albatross contract.

4) The market was very good for sellers. Most franchises want to compete now. And it was easy to match his small salary. His price could have reached its peak this offseason.

However, he can be a very good target next offseason assuming he is staying healthy. Maybe, he can become more attractive to most franchises after being locked for several seasons and the price rises. Especially small market clubs always are afraid of flight-risky players.

[brackdan70]

Many of you should review the lotto odds.
Tanking isn’t what it used to be.
Signing him long term improves his trade value for next year. This will have more to do with long term success than aging a. Purple percentage points in the Flagg, Bailey sweepstakes.
2026 draft may be better anyway.

[realEAST]

As long as the Lakers are the 12 seed, that's a win.

How is that a win when they are out of the Cooper sweepstake?

Ainge's malfeasance is a black eye on the organization. This is a huge fail.

Didn't the Hawks just literally win the lottery having the 10th best odds?

Does anyone who makes these claims understand just how the lottery works in the NBA now? Do you all realize that the Pistons have had the best odds two years in a row only to get passed up by four teams for two years in a row?

People don't get new lottery odds years after them being implemented - if you really want to tank, the worst thing you could do is have the worst record - it is almost 50% chance you'll end up with 5th pick (especially with lottery being drawn backwards, from 14th to 1st pick).

Cases like Hawks are outliers, but being 2nd to 6th worst is kind of the sweet spot that offers the least downside and the best chances to move up a few spots.

[ConSarnit]

Cool Utah, have fun gunning for the 11 seed.

Will be in bottom 3-5 even with Markkanen, young players will get some burn -> recipe to be really bad.

What from the past 2 years makes you think you’ll end up bottom 5? In the last 2 years you’ve had to tank just to get into the bottom 10. The only way you’ve been able to effectively tank the past 2 years has been by shutting Markkanen down. The terrible teams are going to be terrible out of the gate and you won’t be able to catch them through late season tanking. We’ve seen this story before: Markkanen + good coaching gives you some level of competence. Is Markkanen going to agree to shut it down after 40 games, because that’s what you’ll need to do.

[CKB]

Cordinier blowing past SGA

[ConSarnit]

How is that a win when they are out of the Cooper sweepstake?

Ainge's malfeasance is a black eye on the organization. This is a huge fail.

Didn't the Hawks just literally win the lottery having the 10th best odds?

Does anyone who makes these claims understand just how the lottery works in the NBA now? Do you all realize that the Pistons have had the best odds two years in a row only to get passed up by four teams for two years in a row?

People don't get new lottery odds years after them being implemented - if you really want to tank, the worst thing you could do is have the worst record - it is almost 50% chance you'll end up with 5th pick (especially with lottery being drawn backwards, from 14th to 1st pick).

Cases like Hawks are outliers, but being 2nd to 6th worst is kind of the sweet spot that offers the least downside and the best chances to move up a few spots.

Explain this position? How is it better to be the 4th worst team (40% chance of drafting 6th or worst) then the worst team (0% chance of drafting 6th or worst?)

The best odds are still being the worst team.

[Jadoogar]

Cool Utah, have fun gunning for the 11 seed.

Will be in bottom 3-5 even with Markkanen, young players will get some burn -> recipe to be really bad.

What from the past 2 years makes you think you’ll end up bottom 5? In the last 2 years you’ve had to tank just to get into the bottom 10. The only way you’ve been able to effectively tank the past 2 years has been by shutting Markkanen down. The terrible teams are going to be terrible out of the gate and you won’t be able to catch them through late season tanking. We’ve seen this story before: Markkanen + good coaching gives you some level of competence. Is Markkanen going to agree to shut it down after 40 games, because that’s what you’ll need to do.

Since trading Mitchell/Gobert, Jazz have finished with 37 and 31 wins. Not good obviously but far from bottom 5. They are returning with a similar team. I think there is a clear bottom 4 in Portland, Nets, Pistons and Wizards. Utah could get bottom 5 but it's not guaranteed since there will be a lot of competition.

[Nate505]

But I was told by the geniuses here that Ainge's trade demands were nuts and that Lauri would become an unrestricted FA next year because of...uh, reasons.

I think most of us were saying it would not be very smart for the Utah Jazz to keep Lauri because:

1) Utah is far away to contend right now. Sexton, Collins, and Clarkson do not inspire much confidence. Kessler, George, Cody Williams, and Hendricks are far away from breaking out.

2) Lauri can disrupt a tanking season to compete for Cooper Flag and high-potential rookies.

3) Lauri is not durable and overpaying him could result in an albatross contract.

4) The market was very good for sellers. Most franchises want to compete now. And it was easy to match his small salary. His price could have reached its peak this offseason.

However, he can be a very good target next offseason assuming he is staying healthy. Maybe, he can become more attractive to most franchises after being locked for several seasons and the price rises. Especially small market clubs always are afraid of flight-risky players.

Agreed, they aren't contending now, but a few moves with Lauri on the roster and who knows. To me he's the type of player you want to have on a team, instead of just getting draft picks and hoping you'll draft someone as good as him. With the flat lottery odds, tanking is just a dumb strategy, but then again I've always been anti-tanking and it's a strategy I've hated forever.

I disagree about the market being good for sellers, at least in Lauri's case. The reported offers I saw for Lauri were horrible. I mean absolute dog crap horrible.

[Nate505]

This is just luck, that's not a plan. Nuggets drafted the best player in the league with the 41st pick, obviously we should trade all our assets for the upcoming 41st pick.

Sometimes plans don't work out (see pistons) but atleast they have a plan. The best players in the league right now were selected in top 5. Can you find elite players elsewhere in the draft? Obviously. Is it easier to find elite talent at the top of the draft? Also obviously.

Of the 15 players that made all-nba last year, 8 were selected in the top 10 (7 of which were top 5 picks).

Are you telling me the lottery is all about luck? Agreed.

that's what you got from my post?

Pretty much, especially when the argument is the Jazz need to suck it up for Cooper Flagg. Luck is the only way the Jazz are getting him.