Random bad ideas: CJM for Brown+Olynyk

jayjaysee · Post #1 » by **jayjaysee** » Wed Aug 7, 2024 7:26 pm

Random bad idea time.

New Orleans: McCollum, JRE, 2025 first (top 10, top 8, top 5, 2nds), and “2” seconds
Toronto: Brown and Olynyk

New Orlenas gets a vet big that can help space the floor and stopgap while Missi develops or until they get a better center later. Brown is used as a 7th-8th man and hopefully finds his shot.

Toronto: Get a first for their extra vets. Salaries are near identical this season, but Toronto does take on a good amount extra next year. CJM is at least on a declining contract and expiring at that point so maybe not hard to move on from.

Should it be Hawkins instead of JRE? I think maybe.

Yeah, a third team would be ideal but I didn’t want CLT fans to tell me they don’t want CJM and seconds for their semi-rotation pieces, even though it makes a lot of sense... Colbinii suffered through that enough. But I’ll make one of those as well for old time sake..

Post #2 » by **gswhoops** » Wed Aug 7, 2024 7:28 pm

I feel like Hawkins *and* a first is overkill to get off one year of CJM (who is inarguably the best player in the deal). Looks fine as-is to me if Toronto is interested in trying to compete this year.

jayjaysee · Post #3 » by **jayjaysee** » Wed Aug 7, 2024 7:37 pm

gswhoops wrote:I feel like Hawkins *and* a first is overkill to get off one year of CJM (who is inarguably the best player in the deal). Looks fine as-is to me if Toronto is interested in trying to compete this year.

Yeah, I don’t disagree. Maybe the seconds are good enough. Feel like CJM is probably only 10~ million overpaid next year at most? Paying a first and seconds for that savings and Olynyk feels right as is.

Toronto should be tanking and trying to finish a core with Barnes/IQ and the 2025 pick. But their lack of leaning into it seems to point to more of a “will see how the kids do” attitude? And if it’s that - then getting CJM and a first feels like a good move for them..

Post #4 » by **oldncreaky** » Thu Aug 8, 2024 1:19 am

I've been watching/tracking ex-Pistons Brown and Olynyk most of their careers. Brown is a good bench player, but paid $23M, too much for a bench player particularly given the new CBA realities. Olynyk is decent on O, but a tricky fit on D because he can't protect the rim or the perimeter. IMO Olynyk has declined from his Detroit years and is no longer good enough to be in the rotation of a good team.

I think Toronto has to say yes to getting a FRP for a couple of bench players. I'd like to flip CJM if possible, but wouldn't make that a requirement of the trade since he's a good locker room presence and might have more value as an expiring next year.

For NOP, I don't really think it's worth it. I don't think either player they are acquiring should start, so that means they'd have an unbalanced roster with questions at C and PG. If they could trade Ingram that could help, but we now know that looks unlikely.

YayBasketball · Post #5 » by **YayBasketball** » Thu Aug 8, 2024 1:40 am

I get the thinking here, but don't see Pels wasting a 1st or Hawkins to get off of McCullom's contract. They will wait until next offseason when McCullom will be on an expiring deal, then he will be easier to move as a salary dump or as expiring with picks to get a real upgrade. Meanwhile, he definitely fills a role as a high volume, efficient 3 pt. shooter.

I'd be interested if it was for more off a longer term core piece. For example, CJ + asset(s) for Cam Johnson is a fun idea.

YayBasketball · Post #6 » by **YayBasketball** » Thu Aug 8, 2024 1:42 am

If this is for a real starting C: Poeltl + small salary (Boucher/Agbaji) then I think Pels would have some interest there.

jayjaysee · Post #7 » by **jayjaysee** » Thu Aug 8, 2024 10:41 am

YayBasketball wrote:If this is for a real starting C: Poeltl + small salary (Boucher/Agbaji) then I think Pels would have some interest there.

Yeah, Poeltl is a better long term target for New Orleans but OP was pretending Toronto isn’t going to walk into the season tanking. Their kids probably need a strong center for that goal.

Toronto should do;

Poeltl, Grant Williams to New Orleans
CJM and seconds to CLT
Micic, Martin, Richards, and NOP first to Toronto

Or however you want to dress it up.

I do agree New Orleans doesn’t need to trade CJM. He is quite useful and a good vet to have in the room. But if you’re not trading Zion, Ingram, Herb, Trey, Murray… someone needs to be traded to go get a starting center of some level while you hope Missi develops... Missi, Theis, JRE is too bad of a center rotation for a team that could otherwise view themselves as a potential contender unless Missi shocks everyone and is ROTY quality?

I guess it can be Hawkins for another rookie contract player, but that’s looking almost directly at Utah, right? Or Sharpe?

Post #8 » by **Mavrelous** » Thu Aug 8, 2024 10:54 am

I think TOR could use veteran PG with good shooting...
I really like the idea, though I doubt KO is a starting center in this league, but he's better than nothing...

jayjaysee · Post #9 » by **jayjaysee** » Thu Aug 8, 2024 11:35 am

Mavrelous wrote:I think TOR could use veteran PG with good shooting...
I really like the idea, though I doubt KO is a starting center in this league, but he's better than nothing...

Yeah, Utah was pretty good with him and Lauri and Sexton. Not great, but good. NOP’s roster is a lot better than Utah’s..

He’s not a dream target, but he’s a nice stopgap while the team hopes Missi develops?

YayBasketball · Post #10 » by **YayBasketball** » Fri Aug 9, 2024 12:50 am

jayjaysee wrote:
YayBasketball wrote:If this is for a real starting C: Poeltl + small salary (Boucher/Agbaji) then I think Pels would have some interest there.

Yeah, Poeltl is a better long term target for New Orleans but OP was pretending Toronto isn’t going to walk into the season tanking. Their kids probably need a strong center for that goal.

Toronto should do;

Poeltl, Grant Williams to New Orleans
CJM and seconds to CLT
Micic, Martin, Richards, and NOP first to Toronto

Or however you want to dress it up.

I do agree New Orleans doesn’t need to trade CJM. He is quite useful and a good vet to have in the room. But if you’re not trading Zion, Ingram, Herb, Trey, Murray… someone needs to be traded to go get a starting center of some level while you hope Missi develops... Missi, Theis, JRE is too bad of a center rotation for a team that could otherwise view themselves as a potential contender unless Missi shocks everyone and is ROTY quality?

I guess it can be Hawkins for another rookie contract player, but that’s looking almost directly at Utah, right? Or Sharpe?

Yea, Raptors and other young teams will want to start strong to help develop their young players, so solid starters like Poeltl help that. At the deadline, when the tank race becomes clearer and closer, we should see those young teams making their vets available then.

I've been thinking about trading CJM instead of BI, but people tell me a CJM for 20~mil. Center option would keep Pels in lux tax issues next year, with Murray, Zion, Murphy and Ingram all on 30+mil. deals. So I guess it really does have to be Ingram going out. It's just a posturing stance they have to go through until that BI trade.

Post #11 » by **zimpy27** » Fri Aug 9, 2024 2:33 am

Any chance that Raptors like Ingram?

IQ, RJ, Ingram, Scottie

Poeltl+Brown for Ingram+Hawkins maybe?

Godaddycurse · Post #12 » by **Godaddycurse** » Fri Aug 9, 2024 3:04 am

zimpy27 wrote:Any chance that Raptors like Ingram?

IQ, RJ, Ingram, Scottie

Poeltl+Brown for Ingram+Hawkins maybe?

Zero.

Ell Curry · Post #13 » by **Ell Curry** » Fri Aug 9, 2024 6:48 am

jayjaysee wrote:Random bad idea time.

New Orleans: McCollum, JRE, 2025 first (top 10, top 8, top 5, 2nds), and “2” seconds
Toronto: Brown and Olynyk

New Orlenas gets a vet big that can help space the floor and stopgap while Missi develops or until they get a better center later. Brown is used as a 7th-8th man and hopefully finds his shot.

Toronto: Get a first for their extra vets. Salaries are near identical this season, but Toronto does take on a good amount extra next year. CJM is at least on a declining contract and expiring at that point so maybe not hard to move on from.

Should it be Hawkins instead of JRE? I think maybe.

Yeah, a third team would be ideal but I didn’t want CLT fans to tell me they don’t want CJM and seconds for their semi-rotation pieces, even though it makes a lot of sense... Colbinii suffered through that enough. But I’ll make one of those as well for old time sake..

As a Raptors fan, I'd say it probably just about works just because getting a first from New Orleans in a good draft helps us more long-term than Brown and Olynyk this year or Olynyk + 17M next year. And maybe we can eventually get off McCollum for say 10-15M in bad 2025-26 money and make the money a wash. And hey, maybe Zion misses time and the West is always tough, so we get the 15th pick or something to go with our own pick around 10 and can grab 2 good prospects in a strong draft or move up into the top 7 or so and get a quality wing to pair with Barnes.

Don't think Masai would do it.

Hawkins seems promising, but he's quite similar to the Raps last 2 first rounders, and New Orleans would need guard shooting with CJ gone, so I don't think that works really for either team.